When a business or a corporation or whomever decides to 'fund' a project....where do they go to get the loan to pay for it....the business does the work...the bank provides the money.....which is why they get paid.
I don't need a link right?
You said that charities and governments get money from banks to fund their projects. Link please.
You said that charities and governments get money from banks to fund their projects. Link please.
when a charity or government says hey....lets take 20k to do a project.....really...they take 20k to the bank....in return for say 500k .....everything is done with loans.....
rich call it other peoples money....rich entities..don't invest with there own money...they use the banks money
you'll agree in a few days...remember when it started there was no real message...i mean there actually was...but it wasn't the central point...nonetheless the movement has gown and so has the issues it encompasses....but I can assure that daily these movements are discussing global human rights on the net.....
Is there somewhere the general public (or the rest of the 99% not actively involved in the protest) can read up what the message is? It's hard for people to understand what's going on/get involved when this information is not readily available. I've gone through a number of occupy websites and can't really find this information.
To be honest, I thought there was more of a message when the protests began. Then things got jumbled and messy.
your thinking in terms of elected officials....a leader will be someone who takes charge or accepts responsibility etc. Or even the 80 year old female protester who probably purposefully got pepper-sprayed because she knew the seattle (right city?) council and police would have hell to pay with the people.
Really? He started this debate....prob many others too.
Nope. I was definitely not thinking in terms of elected officials. And it wasn't really him that got me interested in the thread. I read this thread to see what peoples' opinions were on this whole Occupy Wherever thing. I didn't even watch the video until like 15 or 16 pages in and the only thing I got from it were he likes swearing angrily at people doing their jobs and he is a master of self-diagnoses. I watched parts of his later videos to see if he mentioned seeing a doctor (which he doesn't) although he does say that he also had a 20 minute seizure now too.
I ve been asked this before, sort of, and i give an answer and I get jumped on for answering....but i don't personally want anything....I support the movement but still as an outsider....im not an occupier I just get it....
{But an answer to your question} I want people to admit government is always corrupt and taxes are never fair. {End Answer}
and there is no implication there that we need to end government or taxes or have anarchy.....i mean it might imply it to you...but im not trying to imply that....
Where do you get your information on this protest from? It's obviously from different sources than the rest of us have been reading/watching/talking to.
when a charity or government says hey....lets take 20k to do a project.....really...they take 20k to the bank....in return for say 500k .....everything is done with loans.....
rich call it other peoples money....rich entities..don't invest with there own money...they use the banks money
Yeah, all those crazy banks that lend out on 4% equity on humanitarian projects that have an expected return on investment of 0%. Are you for real?
Is there somewhere the general public (or the rest of the 99% not actively involved in the protest) can read up what the message is? It's hard for people to understand what's going on/get involved when this information is not readily available. I've gone through a number of occupy websites and can't really find this information.
To be honest, I thought there was more of a message when the protests began. Then things got jumbled and messy.
this protest didn't start with a conclusion...."this is how it should be"....more like we know certain things are wrong....we don't know what to do...we have no answer we are defenseless....lets stand. Sure they had demands at OWS but i really think they were loosely put to give everyone just enough concreteness to stand on and were quickly thrown aside in order to encompass the rapid change of the movement which is basically the world wide support...
no one said this...no one planned it....no one has it posted...its just my opinion that comes from observations.....
Nope. I was definitely not thinking in terms of elected officials. And it wasn't really him that got me interested in the thread. I read this thread to see what peoples' opinions were on this whole Occupy Wherever thing. I didn't even watch the video until like 15 or 16 pages in and the only thing I got from it were he likes swearing angrily at people doing their jobs and he is a master of self-diagnoses. I watched parts of his later videos to see if he mentioned seeing a doctor (which he doesn't) although he does say that he also had a 20 minute seizure now too.
not sure if i forgotten what i posted and how this thread started...but i started this thread because of the video he posted....so what i am saying is as a leader...he started this discussion...
Where do you get your information on this protest from? It's obviously from different sources than the rest of us have been reading/watching/talking to.
No I have the same info....but i don't think ive really said this or that...just that im suggesting that its a global movement now....that they are discussing the issues of world human rights together......over the net.....that I know because in my town its posted on the occupy fb page....
so its my opinion most of it....but im mostly just saying what happening....
Oh. Apparently he did go see a doctor who told him nothing was wrong. Big surprise. Kind of irritating he was sent to the emergency department though. Walk-in clinic doctor should have dealt with this instead of wasting taxpayer dollars sending him to the ED but, that being said, dude may have spun his story to the walk-in doctor to have him advise dude to go to ED. 12 hours is a long wait time but there were probably actually sick/dying people there. Dude needs to man up.
can you re explain that...i don't know what you mean....
You are saying Unicef takes $20k to a big bank and that bank gives Unicef $500k to help fund manual well drilling in Niger with no hope of repayment let alone making a return. If so, big banks are the worlds greatest asset in the fight against world poverty.
You are saying Unicef takes $20k to a big bank and that bank gives Unicef $500k to help fund manual well drilling in Niger with no hope of repayment let alone making a return. If so, big banks are the worlds greatest asset in the fight against world poverty.
NO! I was giving you a hypothetical scenario and am hoping for your explanation as to why I should believe your information that big banks are supposedly funding projects like that to the tune of 96% with no hope of repayment or return.
NO! I was giving you a hypothetical scenario and am hoping for your explanation as to why I should believe your information that big banks are supposedly funding projects like that to the tune of 96% with no hope of repayment or return.
okok ok ...nm i get it....
water is one of the world richest resources....by rich i mean like most sought after or most important or scare or whatever.....im not using the right word....
when i say water is important....im saying big corps are funded by world banks...to go in...privatize the water...and sell it....
Remember this post from way back? Why didn't you just say "agreed" back then and save me an hour and a half of bashing my head against the wall?
that self bashing came from you assuming im an idiot....and now your pointing your finger at me...
if you disagree or think im saying something crazy....ask to clarify...first assuming im intelligent....and am saying something worthy.....and i think you'll find this doesn't happen....
not saying i am intelligent tho....
but no....we still aren't on the same page here....
you said the people aren't protest peoples water rights....
you said they are protesting the world banks....
i am saying the world banks are funding projects such as the privatization of countries water....
which is one reason we protest world banks.....
Darb, I've been following this post for several days now, and like most other posters on this thread I’m having a hard time following exactly what your point is. From what I can gather (correct me if I’m wrong), you feel like this is some kind of worldwide movement to protest against corruptive governments and rich society? And you feel that even though the protestors offer no solutions, are showing no true leaders (and by leaders I mean a real distinguishable leader of a real movement, like MLK as an example), contradict themselves at every turn, (and by contradiction I mean camp out in their North 49 corporate manufactured tents, posting on their IPad corporate manufactured tablets, texting on their corporate built Blackberry while drinking their Starbucks coffee). By having all of us simply agree with you and say sure Government sucks and current social structure is not fair, doesn’t resolve the problem in any way shape or form. In order for something to be a movement it actually has to be moving somewhere. It has to show idea’s, solutions, and propose workable change for the better. So far all this is a bunch of squatters. The protestors who are simple squatting on public land would be better off to actually join or create an organization to help bring about change? There is an old saying “Shit or get off the pot” The saying may not be totally accurate to the situation but it does bare some truth. Right now they are just a bunch of kids on my front lawn that I feel like I need to chase away. Bring me a solution, a suggestion, a cure, something that I can get behind.
that self bashing came from you assuming im an idiot....and now your pointing your finger at me...
if you disagree or think im saying something crazy....ask to clarify...first assuming im intelligent....and am saying something worthy.....and i think you'll find this doesn't happen....
not saying i am intelligent tho....
but no....we still aren't on the same page here....
you said the people aren't protest peoples water rights....
you said they are protesting the world banks....
i am saying the world banks are funding projects such as the privatization of countries water....
which is one reason we protest world banks.....
No! Take a second to read.
a) bashing my head is an expression of my frustration on you not answering my request for an explanation to your ridiculous rant.
b) the first thing (actually the second, third and fourth thing) I did was ask you to clarify.
c) facedesk
d) of course we're not on the same page.....you change pages more than I change my underwear.
e) I said their main focus was not peoples water rights.
I said they are protesting the big banks ie investment banks. You are on the World Bank kick.
I've been following this post for several days now, and like most other posters on this thread I’m having a hard time following exactly what your point is. From what I can gather (correct me if I’m wrong), you feel like this is some kind of worldwide movement to protest against corruptive governments and rich society?
And you feel that even though the protestors offer no solutions, are showing no true leaders (and by leaders I mean a real distinguishable leader of a real movement, like MLK as an example), contradict themselves at every turn, (and by contradiction I mean camp out in their North 49 corporate manufactured tents, posting on their IPad corporate manufactured tablets, texting on their corporate built Blackberry while drinking their Starbucks coffee).
those aren't contradictions...those are points that people don't undestand what is going on bring up to calm the fear of unknown and change....we don't need a corp to make an ipod... and no one is protesting tents...
contradiction would be to assemble leaders and messages....
By having all of us simply agree with you and say sure Government sucks and current social structure is not fair, doesn’t resolve the problem in any way shape or form. In order for something to be a movement it actually has to be moving somewhere. It has to show idea’s, solutions, and propose workable change for the better. So far all this is a bunch of squatters.
see now in this paragraph you get exactly what i am saying...you just don't agree....or see how it would help.... but you get it...
You know Darb, you would make a good politician, say a lot of words but really don't get to the point.. Perhaps your missed calling?
Is this really your idea of one big level? If so, congrats on fooling a lot of us..
i second this Darb, all you do is talk circles without going anywhere. I'm not sayinng this as insult, i'm saying it as the reason i can't support or get behind what you are trying to say.
For sake of argument I will agree that certain parts of the world are terrible and could use some change.
For sake of argument I will agree that government does not work as best as it should.
For sake of argument I will agree that the divide between middle class and upper class is a problem.
So there you have it Darb, I’m on board with you, so now what?? Should we just sit around and occupy space or should we come up with a working solution??
What are you personally doing to help resolve these problems? What organizations do you belong to? What protest, causes, or marches have you attended? How much of your personal income do you donate to organizations, charities, etc? How much of your personal time do you donate to this or any cause? How many wells have you dug in a poor Country? How many homes or shelters have you built for the unfortunate?
For sake of argument I will agree that certain parts of the world are terrible and could use some change.
For sake of argument I will agree that government does not work as best as it should.
For sake of argument I will agree that the divide between middle class and upper class is a problem.
So there you have it Darb, I’m on board with you, so now what?? Should we just sit around and occupy space or should we come up with a working solution??
perfect....
no one is asking you occupy space...no one is asking you to come up with a solution....
furthermore no one is asking you to support an ideal (other than changing the world to better mankind)....
no one is asking you to support a leader....
all those things would be wrong and just more of the same system that rules the world today....
simply to support a movement towards real actual change....
will it work? no one knows...but its the only attempt at REAL change yet....
how do I know its the first attempt...think about what is going on around the world....this has never happened....
did we do it with global warming? no...thats an issue...a defined plan a goal and it had a leader...and what did we do with it? we argued it...we fought it ...we disagreed.....
What are you personally doing to help resolve these problems?
no see...this is how people think...they go straight to it....lets slow down....stretch this out....make sure nothing is missed....we haven't define these problems....we haven't even admitted as a race that they exist......that comes first....
don't ask what we need to do....wait for the world to admit it together....trust me...we'll figure it out from there...
no one is asking you occupy space...no one is asking you to come up with a solution....
furthermore no one is asking you to support an ideal (other than changing the world to better mankind)....
no one is asking you to support a leader....
all those things would be wrong and just more of the same system that rules the world today....
So we are going for the hippy state? Peace, love and lots of good weed
simply to support a movement towards real actual change....
will it work? no one knows...but its the only attempt at REAL change yet....
No it won't work, real change requires real leadership. People need a cause and a person to get behind to induce change. History has already proven this over and over and over and over again. without leadership nothing will get done, what you end up with is a bunch of people sitting around in tents with no idea what to do next.
how do I know its the first attempt...think about what is going on around the world....this has never happened....
Of course stuff like this has happened in the past, that is a bizarre statement.
did we do it with global warming? no...thats an issue...a defined plan a goal and it had a leader...and what did we do with it? we argued it...we fought it ...we disagreed.....
and we have brought about change, and legisislation about the way business conduct themselves. It may be slow progress but at least stuff is being done.
no see...this is how people think...they go straight to it....lets slow down....stretch this out....make sure nothing is missed....we haven't define these problems....we haven't even admitted as a race that they exist......that comes first....
if your solution is to wait for the entire planet to get on board and admit there is a problem then nothing will ever be resolved.
don't ask what we need to do....wait for the world to admit it together....trust me...we'll figure it out from there...
i can't trust you, i don't even understand you
not really any....
this will be the single most important cause of mankind...well until aliens....and then the time we try and outlast the collapse of the universe....
but again...we don't need to attend...just support....
Most of it....but i feel like you think i'm telling people they need to do more...they need to get out...they need to do this and that.....
i was raised under the same corruption you were...whether im an angel or not...it still needs to change....i try....and no....its not enough....
but ya theres more than 2 people on this site who are reading this saying shit...this guy game me money for no reason....
all of it...
as soon as im making enough from poker im gone ^-^
i have an awesome joke coming up....just waiting for it to set itself up.....its not about this being a level...i just wanna say it in case im not first to it....its not really about this debate or anything......
So we are going for the hippy state? Peace, love and lots of good weed
Lets not put weed between all this tho...
No it won't work, real change requires real leadership. People need a cause and a person to get behind to induce change. History has already proven this over and over and over and over again. without leadership nothing will get done, what you end up with is a bunch of people sitting around in tents with no idea what to do next.
I'm not sure the history you are talking about but I know of a brutal extremely violent and unfair way of living kinda of history...as a matter of fact we are still kind of learning about how bad it was.....and its not getting better...WW1 and WWW2 were not long ago, and wars still go on....
now we have nuclear arms....
leadership did not change that......it didn't then..and it still doesn't...
Of course stuff like this has happened in the past, that is a bizarre statement.
No a global movement is new to this world....it wasn't long ago we were a lot more indifferent to the rest of the world....well I know I was but I mean as a culture too.....
and we have brought about change, and legislation about the way business conduct themselves. It may be slow progress but at least stuff is being done.
If we're talking about something like global human rights...I don't think we have brought about any real change towards this...
if your solution is to wait for the entire planet to get on board and admit there is a problem then nothing will ever be resolved.
That probably fine because there probably isn't any other way anyways...but i think...and im not sure...but i think...we are watching it happen...
You know, I have been coming back to this thread for about an hour now, trying to formulate a response to some of the posts since last night, but I just cannot do it . . .
Is there inequity in this World? You bet . . .
Is there need? Unquestionably . . .
Is there hunger? Without a doubt . . .
Will the Occupy folks change ANY of those three statements? Not a chance in Hell.
Gordon Gecko was right . . . Greed, for lack of a better term, is GOOD. For context, go search out the clip on youtube, I cannot be bothered.
I'll check back in on the weekend after the judge renders his decision.
Comments
You said that charities and governments get money from banks to fund their projects. Link please.
rich call it other peoples money....rich entities..don't invest with there own money...they use the banks money
To be honest, I thought there was more of a message when the protests began. Then things got jumbled and messy.
Nope. I was definitely not thinking in terms of elected officials. And it wasn't really him that got me interested in the thread. I read this thread to see what peoples' opinions were on this whole Occupy Wherever thing. I didn't even watch the video until like 15 or 16 pages in and the only thing I got from it were he likes swearing angrily at people doing their jobs and he is a master of self-diagnoses. I watched parts of his later videos to see if he mentioned seeing a doctor (which he doesn't) although he does say that he also had a 20 minute seizure now too.
Where do you get your information on this protest from? It's obviously from different sources than the rest of us have been reading/watching/talking to.
Yeah, all those crazy banks that lend out on 4% equity on humanitarian projects that have an expected return on investment of 0%. Are you for real?
no one said this...no one planned it....no one has it posted...its just my opinion that comes from observations.....
not sure if i forgotten what i posted and how this thread started...but i started this thread because of the video he posted....so what i am saying is as a leader...he started this discussion...
No I have the same info....but i don't think ive really said this or that...just that im suggesting that its a global movement now....that they are discussing the issues of world human rights together......over the net.....that I know because in my town its posted on the occupy fb page....
so its my opinion most of it....but im mostly just saying what happening....
You are saying Unicef takes $20k to a big bank and that bank gives Unicef $500k to help fund manual well drilling in Niger with no hope of repayment let alone making a return. If so, big banks are the worlds greatest asset in the fight against world poverty.
is this what you are talking about?
NO! I was giving you a hypothetical scenario and am hoping for your explanation as to why I should believe your information that big banks are supposedly funding projects like that to the tune of 96% with no hope of repayment or return.
water is one of the world richest resources....by rich i mean like most sought after or most important or scare or whatever.....im not using the right word....
when i say water is important....im saying big corps are funded by world banks...to go in...privatize the water...and sell it....
big banks pay for this.....
Remember this post from way back? Why didn't you just say "agreed" back then and save me an hour and a half of bashing my head against the wall?
if you disagree or think im saying something crazy....ask to clarify...first assuming im intelligent....and am saying something worthy.....and i think you'll find this doesn't happen....
not saying i am intelligent tho....
but no....we still aren't on the same page here....
you said the people aren't protest peoples water rights....
you said they are protesting the world banks....
i am saying the world banks are funding projects such as the privatization of countries water....
which is one reason we protest world banks.....
I've been following this post for several days now, and like most other posters on this thread I’m having a hard time following exactly what your point is. From what I can gather (correct me if I’m wrong), you feel like this is some kind of worldwide movement to protest against corruptive governments and rich society? And you feel that even though the protestors offer no solutions, are showing no true leaders (and by leaders I mean a real distinguishable leader of a real movement, like MLK as an example), contradict themselves at every turn, (and by contradiction I mean camp out in their North 49 corporate manufactured tents, posting on their IPad corporate manufactured tablets, texting on their corporate built Blackberry while drinking their Starbucks coffee).
By having all of us simply agree with you and say sure Government sucks and current social structure is not fair, doesn’t resolve the problem in any way shape or form. In order for something to be a movement it actually has to be moving somewhere. It has to show idea’s, solutions, and propose workable change for the better. So far all this is a bunch of squatters.
The protestors who are simple squatting on public land would be better off to actually join or create an organization to help bring about change? There is an old saying “Shit or get off the pot” The saying may not be totally accurate to the situation but it does bare some truth. Right now they are just a bunch of kids on my front lawn that I feel like I need to chase away. Bring me a solution, a suggestion, a cure, something that I can get behind.
No! Take a second to read.
a) bashing my head is an expression of my frustration on you not answering my request for an explanation to your ridiculous rant.
b) the first thing (actually the second, third and fourth thing) I did was ask you to clarify.
c) facedesk
d) of course we're not on the same page.....you change pages more than I change my underwear.
e) I said their main focus was not peoples water rights.
I said they are protesting the big banks ie investment banks. You are on the World Bank kick.
f) come on man
C'mon Man! | Week 3 2011 | ESPN Monday Night Football - YouTube
those aren't contradictions...those are points that people don't undestand what is going on bring up to calm the fear of unknown and change....we don't need a corp to make an ipod... and no one is protesting tents...
contradiction would be to assemble leaders and messages.... see now in this paragraph you get exactly what i am saying...you just don't agree....or see how it would help.... but you get it...
first we have to admit there is a problem......and define it....
how is this not clear?
you said protests right?.....
yes big banks...including world bank..which is the major one...and its just one example.....
i think your just behind on it...you think every city in the world is protesting the company's on wall street....they are protesting American banks?
Is this really your idea of one big level? If so, congrats on fooling a lot of us..
i second this Darb, all you do is talk circles without going anywhere. I'm not sayinng this as insult, i'm saying it as the reason i can't support or get behind what you are trying to say.
i appreciate you being not mean or rude....please don't take this as rude...its just blunt and fun..
BUT HOW IS THAT NOT CLEAR AND A CIRCLE...
i don't give that...i don't have it.....
you keep asking me...
then say im avoiding the question...
and that im going in circles about it.....
but you keep asking me...a question about a problem i have no intention of giving a solution to...and we haven't defined...and we haven't admitted....
For sake of argument I will agree that government does not work as best as it should.
For sake of argument I will agree that the divide between middle class and upper class is a problem.
So there you have it Darb, I’m on board with you, so now what?? Should we just sit around and occupy space or should we come up with a working solution??
What are you personally doing to help resolve these problems? What organizations do you belong to? What protest, causes, or marches have you attended? How much of your personal income do you donate to organizations, charities, etc? How much of your personal time do you donate to this or any cause? How many wells have you dug in a poor Country? How many homes or shelters have you built for the unfortunate?
no one is asking you occupy space...no one is asking you to come up with a solution....
furthermore no one is asking you to support an ideal (other than changing the world to better mankind)....
no one is asking you to support a leader....
all those things would be wrong and just more of the same system that rules the world today....
simply to support a movement towards real actual change....
will it work? no one knows...but its the only attempt at REAL change yet....
how do I know its the first attempt...think about what is going on around the world....this has never happened....
did we do it with global warming? no...thats an issue...a defined plan a goal and it had a leader...and what did we do with it? we argued it...we fought it ...we disagreed.....
no see...this is how people think...they go straight to it....lets slow down....stretch this out....make sure nothing is missed....we haven't define these problems....we haven't even admitted as a race that they exist......that comes first....
don't ask what we need to do....wait for the world to admit it together....trust me...we'll figure it out from there...
not really any....
this will be the single most important cause of mankind...well until aliens....and then the time we try and outlast the collapse of the universe....
but again...we don't need to attend...just support....
Most of it....but i feel like you think i'm telling people they need to do more...they need to get out...they need to do this and that.....
i was raised under the same corruption you were...whether im an angel or not...it still needs to change....i try....and no....its not enough....
but ya theres more than 2 people on this site who are reading this saying shit...this guy game me money for no reason....
all of it...
as soon as im making enough from poker im gone ^-^
You've lost me again Darb
Lets not put weed between all this tho...
No it won't work, real change requires real leadership. People need a cause and a person to get behind to induce change. History has already proven this over and over and over and over again. without leadership nothing will get done, what you end up with is a bunch of people sitting around in tents with no idea what to do next.
I'm not sure the history you are talking about but I know of a brutal extremely violent and unfair way of living kinda of history...as a matter of fact we are still kind of learning about how bad it was.....and its not getting better...WW1 and WWW2 were not long ago, and wars still go on....
now we have nuclear arms....
leadership did not change that......it didn't then..and it still doesn't...
Of course stuff like this has happened in the past, that is a bizarre statement.
No a global movement is new to this world....it wasn't long ago we were a lot more indifferent to the rest of the world....well I know I was but I mean as a culture too.....
and we have brought about change, and legislation about the way business conduct themselves. It may be slow progress but at least stuff is being done.
If we're talking about something like global human rights...I don't think we have brought about any real change towards this...
if your solution is to wait for the entire planet to get on board and admit there is a problem then nothing will ever be resolved.
That probably fine because there probably isn't any other way anyways...but i think...and im not sure...but i think...we are watching it happen...
i can't trust you, i don't even understand you
I wonder if those are related....
everything needs to be fixed and to fix everything we need to sit back and wait for everything to be fixed by the cosmos...
...and beware the aliens...
...and no way is the man making me use the caps lock or shift key...ever...
Is there inequity in this World? You bet . . .
Is there need? Unquestionably . . .
Is there hunger? Without a doubt . . .
Will the Occupy folks change ANY of those three statements? Not a chance in Hell.
Gordon Gecko was right . . . Greed, for lack of a better term, is GOOD. For context, go search out the clip on youtube, I cannot be bothered.
I'll check back in on the weekend after the judge renders his decision.
Care to expound that incredibly ignorant statement?