One thing I will never understand is why people seem to value established major league star players less than prospects who may never play a single inning at the major league level.
I can't get over how someone so logical in their thinking in every aspect of their life, would take a gamble for a number two like Samardzija for TWO MONTHS and give up on a guy like Stroman or even our own future number one in Sanchez for the next 5 years. That is what it is going to take to get someone at the deadline.
I could see if one believed they were ONE player away. But this teamm is far from one player away. My count is three players away. Unless you fire Gibbons, then maybe one starter, but more realistic, a starter and a reliever.
Yes, I believe Gibbons doesn't use the assets he has properly. Just one example, explain the purpose in bring in Osuna with a 4 run lead in the nineth in game one? Wilnar defended the move saying "Gibbons wanted the win, and that was the best way to get it".
I am sorry, there is no reason why somebody else could not have pitched the nineth.
Prophet22
PS My "new blood" is in reference to the players on the team seeing they are 4.5 games back and believe they need some help. Sometimes you make a change to re-energize a tired bunch of guys.
One thing I will never understand is why people seem to value established major league star players less than prospects who may never play a single inning at the major league level.
We last made the playoffs in 1993. How many years do we need to build to get back to that level? I think a generation is more than enough 'building'. Every team in the league has made the playoffs at least once except the Jays since 1993. We don't need to build to contend for years to come, we need to contend once. Enough waiting.
Hasn't that been the Leafs' strategy the past generation or two? How has that worked out?
Of course people care, well some people anyways. Baseball prospects are bit of a crap shoot sometimes, for sure, but that's why you need a lot of them. It's a game of numbers.
Just think of what this team might look like in 2 years if we keep our prospects. Stroman, Sanchez, Norris, Hoffman, Hutchison, Donaldson, Martin, Pillar, Travis. All young, all coming into their own, all relatively cheap and under control. Then you can afford to add some veteran all-star talent or make a move or two if you're in position to make the next step.
It's not likely they'll all pan out, but chances are enough of them will to make it a better path than shooting you wad this year in a seller's market and getting less in return than they're worth. If you can get a good pitcher for a sensible price, sure, but I'd also look at seeing what I could get in return for a guy like Edwin or even Joey Bats. This market, you could potentially get a huge return that could set you up for years.
You don't waste the best offence in baseball right now. Go get a couple of veteran arms to keep them in games and let the offence do its thing. Preferrable a late inning guy and a good starter.
I don't think you need to sell off all the prospects to do it, either.
Funny thing about the "best offfence in baseball", even the best offence loses to good pitching and good defence. Pat pulled out a Stat the other night - the best 5 offensive Jays teams of all time never made the playoffs. When's the last time a big offensive team did anything in the playoffs with mediocre pitching? What do the consistent contenders have in common? What are almost all contending teams looking to improve by the deadline?
Not wasting the "best offence in baseball" would be making sure you get a proper return for a slugger or a guy having a career year when we can afford to let some hitting go to bolster our pitching.
Only three teams in the Wild Card era (i.e. since 1995) have missed the playoffs while leading the league in runs scored: the 1996 Mariners, the 2008 Rangers, and the 2011 Red Sox. Mariners had Randy Johnson hurt and missed by 2.5 games. Rangers had the worst defense to go with the best offense and the bosox had some chicken wing/beer issue and won 7/27 to close the season and miss by one game.
A. How many of the other teams made it and contended for the WS with below average pitching and defence? The 2008 Rangers kind of support this point even tho we don't have the worst defence in the league.
B. Just making the playoffs is not enough if you're trading away a significant complement of talent.
C. Based on this history, they don't need to make any big moves to get in as long as they maintain their hitting.
Anthopoulos is some kind of mad genius/thief/wizard.
His body isn't build for turf. He might not be here come the 31st 4pm. I know Castro is gone, still don't know who the other two minor leaguers were. Can't believe AA had given up on Castro, he was only 20 years old. This team is is a least 2 starters away from having a shot at the playoffs. I dont mind the shortstop swap, but the Jays over paid here.
We traded an aged injury-prone, .300 hitting shortstop and 2 top prospects for another aged injury-prone .300 hitting shortsop who now has a no-trade clause and a mediocre reliever who's retiring after this year.
This is a steep price for sure. We may not know how steep for a couple of years. We now have the best SS and 3rd base not in the AL but the entire majors. Joey Bats has to stay, EE is expendable so is Danny Valencia or Chris Colabello. The Mets are desprate for offense. We need to get pitching. When Pat Gillick couldn't get Randy Johnston at the deadline, he went and got Ricky Henderson - we won our second World Series. May AA will have the same luck. Just hope he doesn`t have the luck that followed that second World Series. Meaningless baseball for more than 20 years.
Ok, now I get it. Didn't realize Tulo had 5 more yrs on his deal. Still not sure I like the deal, but at least I understand where AA is coming from now.
Yeah, I'd also like to see them trade EE for a good pitcher, and the Mets have pitching, but EE has veto power and I don't see him going to the NL where he can't DH and a contending team like the Mets are no likely to part with a starter of the calibre we'd need in return.
Wow. Another classic performance by the "best offence in baseball". 2 runs against the worst team in the majors. Sad.
Since the break they're 1-4 in games decided by 2 runs or less and 2-4 in games where the winning team scores 5 runs or less.
Also, it's pretty clear JB was pissed with the trade based on his comments, his pseudo-injury last night, and his tweet after the game. Looks a lot like the way last year went down at the deadline.
BTW was at the Cubs game last Friday, not only were there no metal detectors, there was virtually no security at all. They just open up a big gate and have a couple people standing there with ticket scanners. No lines, no turnstiles.
Comments
I can't get over how someone so logical in their thinking in every aspect of their life, would take a gamble for a number two like Samardzija for TWO MONTHS and give up on a guy like Stroman or even our own future number one in Sanchez for the next 5 years. That is what it is going to take to get someone at the deadline.
I could see if one believed they were ONE player away. But this teamm is far from one player away. My count is three players away. Unless you fire Gibbons, then maybe one starter, but more realistic, a starter and a reliever.
Yes, I believe Gibbons doesn't use the assets he has properly. Just one example, explain the purpose in bring in Osuna with a 4 run lead in the nineth in game one? Wilnar defended the move saying "Gibbons wanted the win, and that was the best way to get it".
I am sorry, there is no reason why somebody else could not have pitched the nineth.
Prophet22
PS My "new blood" is in reference to the players on the team seeing they are 4.5 games back and believe they need some help. Sometimes you make a change to re-energize a tired bunch of guys.
PSS Read the second half of this article.
Smoak's found right fit in Toronto - Article - TSN
It speaks volumes in how we are handlingand 82 million dollar player.
BLUE JAYS.....BLUE JAYS!
LETS....LETS!
PLAY.....PLAY!
BALLLLLLLLL!
Good Luck in the second half of the season boys!!
Hasn't that been the Leafs' strategy the past generation or two? How has that worked out?
You can't trade picks in baseball, only signed players.
PS Great win by Canada tonight in Ajax. It was a dramatic win in extras!
Just think of what this team might look like in 2 years if we keep our prospects. Stroman, Sanchez, Norris, Hoffman, Hutchison, Donaldson, Martin, Pillar, Travis. All young, all coming into their own, all relatively cheap and under control. Then you can afford to add some veteran all-star talent or make a move or two if you're in position to make the next step.
It's not likely they'll all pan out, but chances are enough of them will to make it a better path than shooting you wad this year in a seller's market and getting less in return than they're worth. If you can get a good pitcher for a sensible price, sure, but I'd also look at seeing what I could get in return for a guy like Edwin or even Joey Bats. This market, you could potentially get a huge return that could set you up for years.
I don't think you need to sell off all the prospects to do it, either.
Not wasting the "best offence in baseball" would be making sure you get a proper return for a slugger or a guy having a career year when we can afford to let some hitting go to bolster our pitching.
Only three teams in the Wild Card era (i.e. since 1995) have missed the playoffs while leading the league in runs scored: the 1996 Mariners, the 2008 Rangers, and the 2011 Red Sox. Mariners had Randy Johnson hurt and missed by 2.5 games. Rangers had the worst defense to go with the best offense and the bosox had some chicken wing/beer issue and won 7/27 to close the season and miss by one game.
B. Just making the playoffs is not enough if you're trading away a significant complement of talent.
C. Based on this history, they don't need to make any big moves to get in as long as they maintain their hitting.
What what what?
Anthopoulos is some kind of mad genius/thief/wizard.
His body isn't build for turf. He might not be here come the 31st 4pm. I know Castro is gone, still don't know who the other two minor leaguers were. Can't believe AA had given up on Castro, he was only 20 years old. This team is is a least 2 starters away from having a shot at the playoffs. I dont mind the shortstop swap, but the Jays over paid here.
Prophet22
Now joeybats or Edwin could be traded for pitching.
Yes! This. ^^
I don't get it.
One of the others is Hoffman
Thanks.
This is a steep price for sure. We may not know how steep for a couple of years. We now have the best SS and 3rd base not in the AL but the entire majors. Joey Bats has to stay, EE is expendable so is Danny Valencia or Chris Colabello. The Mets are desprate for offense. We need to get pitching. When Pat Gillick couldn't get Randy Johnston at the deadline, he went and got Ricky Henderson - we won our second World Series. May AA will have the same luck. Just hope he doesn`t have the luck that followed that second World Series. Meaningless baseball for more than 20 years.
Prophet22
Yeah, I'd also like to see them trade EE for a good pitcher, and the Mets have pitching, but EE has veto power and I don't see him going to the NL where he can't DH and a contending team like the Mets are no likely to part with a starter of the calibre we'd need in return.
"We know what we are getting ..... we didn't run away from Reyes"
They flip him.
Since the break they're 1-4 in games decided by 2 runs or less and 2-4 in games where the winning team scores 5 runs or less.
Also, it's pretty clear JB was pissed with the trade based on his comments, his pseudo-injury last night, and his tweet after the game. Looks a lot like the way last year went down at the deadline.
this
BTW was at the Cubs game last Friday, not only were there no metal detectors, there was virtually no security at all. They just open up a big gate and have a couple people standing there with ticket scanners. No lines, no turnstiles.
12 oz domestic draft was $7.75 though. Ouch.
Except last year they were complaining that nothing was done.
And this year they'll be complaining that not enough was done or the wrong stuff was done.