I love the ridiculous over reaction to "names" ITT.
The Angels have signed Josh Hamilton (my god did you see him demolish the HR contest at the all-star game a few years back??), give them the World Series.
So this winter a team that was below average in pitching and tied for the AL in blown saves (I'm talking about the Angels not the Jays....and they were tied the the Red Sox in blown saves), has lost Grienke, Haren and Santana from their starting rotation and replaced them with Ryan Madsen (closer coming off Tommy John surgery) Joe Blanton and Tommy Hanson (2 NL starters that now have to face an extra hitter each game)...oh and Josh Hamilton. For their sake I hope he has worked on his slider this off season.
No GM in their right mind would have made those moves other than out of necessity, and when you factor in they now have basically shut the door on Peter Bourjos and his upside because they are paying Wells 20 million to play left field are things really that rosey?
The Jays aren't perfect, but complaining about their pitching is ridiculous. Buerhle and Johnson instantly add 2 top of the rotation guys and their bullpen will be one of the best in baseball next year regardless of the role Janssen plays. It was trending that way late last season and they have only added more depth.
Every team has warts but I like the look of the Jays better than most right now.
EDIT: And Brent, listing Texas as an automatic wild card AFTER losing Hamilton? They choked up a huge lead in their division last season when they had Hamilton. Now they lose him, Napoli and Michael Young and are talking about moving Kinsler to first to fit in a rookie with a great possibility they will be starting a rookie in CF too?? Hardly sounds like a playoff contender to me.
It's December people. Anything can and will happen this season.
I'm über happy that at least this year the Jays made serious moves to improve. This team is miles better then last years.
I tip my hat to AA and to to Rogers for opening up the parole. Even if we missed the playoffs, at least the Jays management didn't sit with their thumbs up their asses this offseason.
I love the ridiculous over reaction to "names" ITT.
The Angels have signed Josh Hamilton (my god did you see him demolish the HR contest at the all-star game a few years back??), give them the World Series.
So this winter a team that was below average in pitching and tied for the AL in blown saves (I'm talking about the Angels not the Jays....and they were tied the the Red Sox in blown saves), has lost Grienke, Haren and Santana from their starting rotation and replaced them with Ryan Madsen (closer coming off Tommy John surgery) Joe Blanton and Tommy Hanson (2 NL starters that now have to face an extra hitter each game)...oh and Josh Hamilton. For their sake I hope he has worked on his slider this off season.
No GM in their right mind would have made those moves other than out of necessity, and when you factor in they now have basically shut the door on Peter Bourjos and his upside because they are paying Wells 20 million to play left field are things really that rosey?
The Jays aren't perfect, but complaining about their pitching is ridiculous. Buerhle and Johnson instantly add 2 top of the rotation guys and their bullpen will be one of the best in baseball next year regardless of the role Janssen plays. It was trending that way late last season and they have only added more depth.
Every team has warts but I like the look of the Jays better than most right now.
EDIT: And Brent, listing Texas as an automatic wild card AFTER losing Hamilton? They choked up a huge lead in their division last season when they had Hamilton. Now they lose him, Napoli and Michael Young and are talking about moving Kinsler to first to fit in a rookie with a great possibility they will be starting a rookie in CF too?? Hardly sounds like a playoff contender to me.
Maybe. but by your own argument so do our new pitchers after leaving the NL. As long as TO has to play Red Sox, Yankees, Tampa, and a Baltimore team that made the playoffs 18 x's each, while teams like Texas and the Angels get to face of Seattle and now Houston, the Jays have a harder schedule. They were 20 wins from tying for a wild card spot. And adding Hamilton to our roster would have helped in what I still believe is the hardest division in baseball.
I love baseball and the Jays, don't want to change division. I believe in second chances, but who really knows how Melky will do without the juice. (hopefully) Santos how he will react after his surgery.
AA made some things happen for sure, and seems like he is "all in" why not spend money on Hamilton and Dempster as well.
It is going to be fun for sure walking up every morning and turning the game on.
I stand by both predictions. Jays won't make the playoffs and won't hit 87 win. Hope I am wrong!
I tip my hat to AA and to to Rogers for opening up the parole. Even if we missed the playoffs, at least the Jays management didn't sit with their thumbs up their asses this offseason.
It's December people. Anything can and will happen this season.
I'm über happy that at least this year the Jays made serious moves to improve. This team is miles better then last years.
I tip my hat to AA and to to Rogers for opening up the payroll. Even if we missed the playoffs, at least the Jays management didn't sit with their thumbs up their asses this offseason.
AA has taken a page out of the Leafs playbook and just "window dress" the roster by changing a few faces. Where is our Trout or Harper that AA has promised us?
Maybe. but by your own argument so do our new pitchers after leaving the NL. As long as TO has to play Red Sox, Yankees, Tampa, and a Baltimore team that made the playoffs 18 x's each, while teams like Texas and the Angels get to face of Seattle and now Houston, the Jays have a harder schedule. They were 20 wins from tying for a wild card spot. And adding Hamilton to our roster would have helped in what I still believe is the hardest division in baseball.
I love baseball and the Jays, don't want to change division. I believe in second chances, but who really knows how Melky will do without the juice. (hopefully) Santos how he will react after his surgery.
AA made some things happen for sure, and seems like he is "all in" why not spend money on Hamilton and Dempster as well.
It is going to be fun for sure walking up every morning and turning the game on.
I stand by both predictions. Jays won't make the playoffs and won't hit 87 win. Hope I am wrong!
a) Buerhle (was in AL for 12 of his 13 seasons)/ Johnson > Hanson/Blanton
b) Red Sox have already fallen off the map, Yankees are ready for their descent, Baltimore was smoke and mirrors and Tampa spent all last season unable to score for their fantastic staff. This division is not the powerhouse everyone thinks.
c) Hamilton and Dempster were everything the Jays didn't need to spend on. Spending on Fielder last year would have made this team the stone cold nuts. Lind is the only real black hole on this team imo.
You are assuming Edwin Encarnacion will do what he did last year.
CF position could have been improved.
Our bullpen is middle of the road at BEST.
Second is really unknown.
I think this city expected more productivity out of Lawrie especially from the power side of the game.
Bautista's .241 average doesn't cut it for a number 3 hitter.
Anthony Gose was suppose to be our Michael Trout, not anywhere near that level and doesn't look like he will be at this point. He looks lost at the plate
There are more holes in this team than I think you care to admit.
Again, I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so at this point
You are assuming Edwin Encarnacion will do what he did last year. I'm not assuming anything. I'm expecting him to hit .270/25hr/85rbi.
CF position could have been improved. I'm willing to give Rasmus more time and with adding top of the order on base guys like Reyes, Cabrera, Bonifacio, Izturis, Rasmus can go on hitting .230 and it doesn't hurt nearly as much.
Our bullpen is middle of the road at BEST. Because we don't have a name guy like Rivera or Papelbon? That is absurd. There is depth here that most teams dream of. Janssen, Delabar, Lyon, Lincoln, Frasor and Oliver are money. If Santos comes back to the level he was at he slots in at the top and everyone else is even better. These guys are not the Cordero's and Francisco's they added the last couple years, they are dominating arms. Bullpen is 100% top 5 in the AL next year or I'll eat my Jays cap.
Second is really unknown. I'll take an Izturis/Bonifacio timeshare there until we see who's best and have no problem. In all likelihood they're the #9 hitter in this line-up acting as the table setter for the best 1-4 hitting line-up anywhere. As long as they play defense with anything more than the ineptitude we've had since Aaron Hill, we're ahead.
I think this city expected more productivity out of Lawrie especially from the power side of the game. LOL, he turns 23 in January.
Bautista's .241 average doesn't cut it for a number 3 hitter. His batting avg is almost meaningless. His run production with Reyes and Cabrera hitting .300 in front of him is all that matters.
Anthony Gose was suppose to be our Michael Trout, not anywhere near that level and doesn't look like he will be at this point. He looks lost at the plate Please post link that proclaimed Gose as anything near what Trout was supposed to be. Trout is a freak of nature and always was the top prospect in baseball. Gose was supposed to be and likely still will be, a good major leaguer with great speed. Oh, and he turns 23 next August.
There are more holes in this team than I think you care to admit. Trust me I can recognize holes in teams I like just as much as teams I don't like. Adam Lind is the only player I hate to see start the season in this line-up and even he has a chance to hold his own.He's the reason why I wanted them to keep Napoli from the Wells trade 2 years ago and why I wanted them to sign Fielder last year.
Again, I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so at this point On that we will disagree
Don't take my word for it. The Bleacher Report ranks every team starting with the horrible Astros. Caution Brent, it's one page per team starting at #30 going to #1...there are a lot of clicks to get to the Jays.... but you'll get to see your Yankmees on the way.
Filled with hopes and dreams of another winner in the 4th largest market in North America. A city that has proven it will support a team willing to contend. The Jays attendance was up 15% last year and maybe if they can get there win total to within single digits from the playoffs, they will spend enough money needed to win a championship again.
As far as your comments about being 23, I realize that but Harper and Trout are even younger. I do think Lawrie is the real deal. I just expect a few more HRs from a guy at 3rd base.
EE to hit 25 HR is a bit of a stretch considering prior to this year he has only done it once in his career going all the way back to A ball.
I set the number at 86 games, are you taking the over Chris? I will also set the over/under at 91.5 for the AL playoffs. Again, you taking the over/under, I will go 20.00 on each!
Don't take my word for it. The Bleacher Report ranks every team starting with the horrible Astros. Caution Brent, it's one page per team starting at #30 going to #1...there are a lot of clicks to get to the Jays.... but you'll get to see your Yankmees on the way.
You have me all wrong Chris!!! I love the Jays and want them to win!!! I just don't think they have the stones to make the moves necessary to win. They proved that last year by not signing Fielder or Pujols, and again this year by not making an offer to Hamilton or Dempster. Greinke, was never going to come here.
But seeing as you are lumping me as a Yankee fan and the Bleacher Report says the Jays are better, I will give you another 20.00 that the Yankees finish higher in the standings than the Jays. And you won't have to eat your hat.
As far as your comments about being 23, I realize that but Harper and Trout are even younger. I do think Lawrie is the real deal. I just expect a few more HRs from a guy at 3rd base.
EE to hit 25 HR is a bit of a stretch considering prior to this year he has only done it once in his career going all the way back to A ball.
I set the number at 86 games, are you taking the over Chris? I will also set the over/under at 91.5 for the AL playoffs. Again, you taking the over/under, I will go 20.00 on each!
a) Trout and Harper are 5 star blue chip prospects. The Jays have never had one of their ilk.
b) In fact if you extrapolate EE's stats to the 542 AB's he got last year to every year he has played previously he would have averaged 24 HR and 78 RBI for his previous 7 MLB seasons. Note that average does not include his gaudy numbers from last season.
c) I will take the over 86, but it's a fools game. Set some odds with the following parameters based on health and I will be happier to put my money up.
- Buerhle, Johnson and Morrow start at least 28 games each or a total of 90 combined.
- Bautista plays 140+ games. Reyes, Cabrera, Encarnacion, Lawrie are DL'd for no more than 30 days in any one case or 100 days combined.
You don't get a pass to the playoffs if the organization can't deal with the health of it's players and if things don't go their way. The team AA has put together as of now is not good enough to get to the Divisional Title in the AL East period and therefore have to count on a wildcard spot and I am saying a wild card spot will be somewhere around the 91 win mark at the lowest and that would still leave the Jays 5 games out.
But I will still say the Yankees will pass the Jays in total wins, even though your beloved bleacher report has the Jays as the 3rd best team and the Yankees as 16th. 20.00? and take the issue of the playoffs out of the equation.
And I will even give you a tip as to why it would be a bad bet from your stand point! What you and they (Jays) and everyone else fail to realize, the Yankees will buy another contract when a player goes down to keep their playoff hopes alive where the Jays say maybe next year.
Do we have a bet on who has a better record Jays u or Yankees me?
Reports indicate the jays are very close to aquiring RA Dickey from the Mets. Although it would add to the starting depth and be a short term win I suspect the cost would likely be Gose and Arencibia and I would not be happy giving up that much long term potential for a short term fix in the form of a 38 year old knuckler.
You don't get a pass to the playoffs if the organization can't deal with the health of it's players and if things don't go their way. The team AA has put together as of now is not good enough to get to the Divisional Title in the AL East period and therefore have to count on a wildcard spot and I am saying a wild card spot will be somewhere around the 91 win mark at the lowest and that would still leave the Jays 5 games out.
But I will still say the Yankees will pass the Jays in total wins, even though your beloved bleacher report has the Jays as the 3rd best team and the Yankees as 16th. 20.00? and take the issue of the playoffs out of the equation.
And I will even give you a tip as to why it would be a bad bet from your stand point! What you and they (Jays) and everyone else fail to realize, the Yankees will buy another contract when a player goes down to keep their playoff hopes alive where the Jays say maybe next year.
Do we have a bet on who has a better record Jays u or Yankees me?
Prophet22
Already said I would take the over 86 for 20. I will bet another $20 that they win the AL East provided they hit the health numbers I laid out in the previous post. What say you?
Comments
all these acquisitions of late are great, and make me
also super tilted that the josh hamilton signing makes it super hard for us to get a play off birth.
we have no bonafide #1, (or #2 for that matter), our bullpen sucks dick and casey jansen =
The Angels have signed Josh Hamilton (my god did you see him demolish the HR contest at the all-star game a few years back??), give them the World Series.
So this winter a team that was below average in pitching and tied for the AL in blown saves (I'm talking about the Angels not the Jays....and they were tied the the Red Sox in blown saves), has lost Grienke, Haren and Santana from their starting rotation and replaced them with Ryan Madsen (closer coming off Tommy John surgery) Joe Blanton and Tommy Hanson (2 NL starters that now have to face an extra hitter each game)...oh and Josh Hamilton. For their sake I hope he has worked on his slider this off season.
No GM in their right mind would have made those moves other than out of necessity, and when you factor in they now have basically shut the door on Peter Bourjos and his upside because they are paying Wells 20 million to play left field are things really that rosey?
The Jays aren't perfect, but complaining about their pitching is ridiculous. Buerhle and Johnson instantly add 2 top of the rotation guys and their bullpen will be one of the best in baseball next year regardless of the role Janssen plays. It was trending that way late last season and they have only added more depth.
Every team has warts but I like the look of the Jays better than most right now.
EDIT: And Brent, listing Texas as an automatic wild card AFTER losing Hamilton? They choked up a huge lead in their division last season when they had Hamilton. Now they lose him, Napoli and Michael Young and are talking about moving Kinsler to first to fit in a rookie with a great possibility they will be starting a rookie in CF too?? Hardly sounds like a playoff contender to me.
I'm über happy that at least this year the Jays made serious moves to improve. This team is miles better then last years.
I tip my hat to AA and to to Rogers for opening up the parole. Even if we missed the playoffs, at least the Jays management didn't sit with their thumbs up their asses this offseason.
Maybe. but by your own argument so do our new pitchers after leaving the NL. As long as TO has to play Red Sox, Yankees, Tampa, and a Baltimore team that made the playoffs 18 x's each, while teams like Texas and the Angels get to face of Seattle and now Houston, the Jays have a harder schedule. They were 20 wins from tying for a wild card spot. And adding Hamilton to our roster would have helped in what I still believe is the hardest division in baseball.
I love baseball and the Jays, don't want to change division. I believe in second chances, but who really knows how Melky will do without the juice. (hopefully) Santos how he will react after his surgery.
AA made some things happen for sure, and seems like he is "all in" why not spend money on Hamilton and Dempster as well.
It is going to be fun for sure walking up every morning and turning the game on.
I stand by both predictions. Jays won't make the playoffs and won't hit 87 win. Hope I am wrong!
AA scouting the prison leagues now?
AA has taken a page out of the Leafs playbook and just "window dress" the roster by changing a few faces. Where is our Trout or Harper that AA has promised us?
a) Buerhle (was in AL for 12 of his 13 seasons)/ Johnson > Hanson/Blanton
b) Red Sox have already fallen off the map, Yankees are ready for their descent, Baltimore was smoke and mirrors and Tampa spent all last season unable to score for their fantastic staff. This division is not the powerhouse everyone thinks.
c) Hamilton and Dempster were everything the Jays didn't need to spend on. Spending on Fielder last year would have made this team the stone cold nuts. Lind is the only real black hole on this team imo.
You are assuming Edwin Encarnacion will do what he did last year.
CF position could have been improved.
Our bullpen is middle of the road at BEST.
Second is really unknown.
I think this city expected more productivity out of Lawrie especially from the power side of the game.
Bautista's .241 average doesn't cut it for a number 3 hitter.
Anthony Gose was suppose to be our Michael Trout, not anywhere near that level and doesn't look like he will be at this point. He looks lost at the plate
There are more holes in this team than I think you care to admit.
Again, I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so at this point
not new information. Doesn't change who the Yankees are.
Comments bolded.
Power Ranking All 30 MLB Lineups Post-Winter Meetings | Bleacher Report
And an excellent arm by arm, inning by inning breakdown of the Jays bullpen
http://mopupduty.com/spitballing-the-2013-blue-jay-bullpen-090412/
Filled with hopes and dreams of another winner in the 4th largest market in North America. A city that has proven it will support a team willing to contend. The Jays attendance was up 15% last year and maybe if they can get there win total to within single digits from the playoffs, they will spend enough money needed to win a championship again.
As far as your comments about being 23, I realize that but Harper and Trout are even younger. I do think Lawrie is the real deal. I just expect a few more HRs from a guy at 3rd base.
EE to hit 25 HR is a bit of a stretch considering prior to this year he has only done it once in his career going all the way back to A ball.
I set the number at 86 games, are you taking the over Chris? I will also set the over/under at 91.5 for the AL playoffs. Again, you taking the over/under, I will go 20.00 on each!
and
https://mlb411.mlb.com/greetingcards/html/_20121213051734.html
You have me all wrong Chris!!! I love the Jays and want them to win!!! I just don't think they have the stones to make the moves necessary to win. They proved that last year by not signing Fielder or Pujols, and again this year by not making an offer to Hamilton or Dempster. Greinke, was never going to come here.
But seeing as you are lumping me as a Yankee fan and the Bleacher Report says the Jays are better, I will give you another 20.00 that the Yankees finish higher in the standings than the Jays. And you won't have to eat your hat.
Back to you!
Done. that is two guys and I don't even know who the other guy is, but he has posted a few times.
I have 60.00 left and will give Chris 24 hour (Noon Dec 16th to except EST)
Prophet22
To make the playoffs? Or that they get over 86 games and still won't make the playoffs?
Prophet22
Ps 3.25 am going back to bed and Seoul in the morning.
Johnnie is reserved, last 40.00 is on reserve for Chris
Over on 86 wins.
Closed note the one guy who I don't is the Jays won't make the playoffs
Nice! Hope you win! Now I gotta get some sleep!
a) Trout and Harper are 5 star blue chip prospects. The Jays have never had one of their ilk.
b) In fact if you extrapolate EE's stats to the 542 AB's he got last year to every year he has played previously he would have averaged 24 HR and 78 RBI for his previous 7 MLB seasons. Note that average does not include his gaudy numbers from last season.
c) I will take the over 86, but it's a fools game. Set some odds with the following parameters based on health and I will be happier to put my money up.
- Buerhle, Johnson and Morrow start at least 28 games each or a total of 90 combined.
- Bautista plays 140+ games. Reyes, Cabrera, Encarnacion, Lawrie are DL'd for no more than 30 days in any one case or 100 days combined.
But I will still say the Yankees will pass the Jays in total wins, even though your beloved bleacher report has the Jays as the 3rd best team and the Yankees as 16th. 20.00? and take the issue of the playoffs out of the equation.
And I will even give you a tip as to why it would be a bad bet from your stand point! What you and they (Jays) and everyone else fail to realize, the Yankees will buy another contract when a player goes down to keep their playoff hopes alive where the Jays say maybe next year.
Do we have a bet on who has a better record Jays u or Yankees me?
Prophet22
Moose mentioned Youkilis and Arod position. Is why I stated what I did. I am not a yankee fan, sorry if my note suggests it changes who they are.
Already said I would take the over 86 for 20. I will bet another $20 that they win the AL East provided they hit the health numbers I laid out in the previous post. What say you?