It's at the very very bottom. Would you be willing to make the transfer Actpyer? You're guaranteed the 200 CPF$ since the moderators can see this conversation, i'll get emai Sloth if you'd be willing... pleeeease? Tournies in 6 hours so hopefully it would make it in time.
No i'm not on any other Prima Sites if that's what you mean. Do you need a "superior account" to transfer funds?
I got an email reply saying they forwarded my email to the correct people, that was 3 hours ago and i still haven't heard back... the tourney is in 2 hours
well teh tourny starts in 13 minutes and no email reply or reply from acylter soo guess i'm not in RiverBelle reallyshoulda made it clear on how to be able to enter that tourny...
P.S PNL anouncers if there are any MTT that will be aired on PNL i'd like to play in them in the future so just gimme a heads up so i can get some funds available. TY
Limping with Q9o, short stacked was just soooooo baaaadddd (Honest Johnny, I am a better player than that)
I deserved the comments at the end and but at least I won my next game...
Good call on where I got my name...Thomas Hobbes (not Calvin and Hobbes as most think)
Yeah I went out around there. Some passive playing, saw some loose calling. Got caught when I pushed with AQ, not knowing the limper before me limped in with AK. Not sure if they played this tourney already, I taped the thus show but it wasn't it.
My Political Science Background led me in the "Thomas" direction.
As for the MTT, doesn't look like we will be having them yet, but it was one of the suggestions brought up at a recent meeting. That and more no-limit, limit and some other ideas. If you have any questions regarding specific websites and that, unfortunately I cannot help..but I wish you all luck on the show once you get there. The hosts don't select the games...it is typically the guys in the "control room" that make these decisions.
Johnny T
You should get one of them to sign up to the forums Johnny. It'd probably be a good thing they they see first hand the comments of the poker community/ their viewers.
I would like to get my game on tv so i can get it annalyzed. When its live on tv it is obvious its hours old... Any ideas. id like times recording, when on tv live and time zine.
I was playing in a tournament this week. A lady came over in a tight T-shirt to deal. I thought she looked familiar and it was none other than Audrey! She looks younger and prettier in person than on TV. She is an excellent dealer as she is one of the few dealers I have encountered that did not make a single mistake.
Was watching Daniel Negreanu's Protege show the other day....and I'm pretty sure that Audrey (the female poker expert from PNL) was dealing. I guess it's a small world as far as Poker TV goes!
Hello All,
Sorry I have been away from the forum for so long. I was having some difficulty logging in for a while. Seems like the problem is all fixed. Lucky Lou and I were having an interesting debate on our last show together regarding a hand - A9s. In the early going of a sit and go, when the blinds are low, and the game is loose, I didn't mind a limp from under the gun. Wondering if anyone had any thoughts that they would like to add?
I don't think there are any hands that deserve to be limped UTG, your just getting yourself in a spot where your going to have to make very difficult decisions post flop, if you make it to the flop... are you going to call a late position raise? Probably not...
I think if you really want to play this hand, you should be raising it... that way at least you have a way of winning the pot if you miss. Not to mention your contributing to your image.
On a seperate note - how do I get on the show? I've been watching the show for awhile now and I think it would be interesting to watch myself play. I think it would be a good way to anylyse my play.
I have money on poker 333 but everytime I go to try and join a table, I can't find anything...
Lucky Lou and I were having an interesting debate on our last show together regarding a hand - A9s. In the early going of a sit and go, when the blinds are low, and the game is loose, I didn't mind a limp from under the gun. Wondering if anyone had any thoughts that they would like to add?
All-in (this removes the positional disadvantage ). Actually, Lou and I have had the A9 discussion a few times (since it's my favorite hand). He thinks I'm a stupid donkey with it, but I think I'm a lucky donkey. We agree to disagree
A,9 -suited or os??? If they were suited I might bet or limp...but then again I'm not right to often..Actually thinking more about it. If I am going to get involved its better to lead then follow...Bet med to large, but not all-in..
I'm not sure I see the merit of limping with it? What are you hoping to hit with the nine...TPTK? A flush Draw? I think we'll all agree that an Ace is not a GREAT card for A-9s. Even if you hit your nine high flop who's going to play a big pot with you besides a set or overpair?
Its just another Axs and my thinking is -Not worth the effort and risk oop.
If for some reason you believe the conditions are right to try to play it (maybe a REALLY tight table with too much respect for UTG raises?) I agree that its a raise and your intention is to take the blinds....
This means two things to me:
1. Playing this hand early in the sng is unnecessary-since the blinds are not worth stealing.
2. When the blinds ARE worth stealing and the conditions are right to attempt to do so UTG -defining the hand as "A-9s" is irrelevant; you would be raising to steal with a much wider variety of hands.
Thats my most intuitive answer..am I looking at this situation correctly?
I'm really interested in some feedback here -This is what I get for missing an episode! I hope my questions weren't already answered.
Ok guys it was me that Johnny is talking about. I cannot believe the heaated debate that it caused.
I wan't trying to steal but with some of the loose players at the table that night (YsBirdy Esp), I was willing to limp early in the tourney on some speculative hands. Won't do that if I don't know the players.
It was only 20 chips to limp. If the flop hit me hard (2pr/flushdraw) I would have come out betting and probably been paid off by YsBirdy.
Not sure if I would have called the first raise to 80, but when Ys reraised it was time to dump.
BTW went out when Ys called my QQ allin1 for about 1/2 his chips with K5o and hit his king.
I wan't trying to steal but with some of the loose players at the table that night (YsBirdy Esp), I was willing to limp early in the tourney on some speculative hands. Won't do that if I don't know the players.
It was only 20 chips to limp. If the flop hit me hard (2pr/flushdraw) I would have come out betting and probably been paid off by YsBirdy.
Hey Hobbes,
I had two follow up questions, but wanted to say first that I'm sincerely asking ...my way of looking at this may be completely off.
I'm wondering about your term "speculative hands" that implies you limp in the early stages with all Axs? I'm guessing not-so, again- Why is the '9' special? Limping with the hopes of hitting two pairs(and/or flush draw) doesn't seem reason enough to me -on that logic wouldn't any two become playable? (or at least any two suited)
The we add the variable that you are out OOP in a fast moving- short stack sng- and I have trouble seeing why knowing that Ysbirdy will call is an advantage?
Presuming that a few of the 'loose players' limp with..how much would you lead out on the flop and turn? I can't imagine a scenario in which you are not committing a large % of your stack (I consider that to be 10% or more) without even being a favourite to win, no information on your opponents (no concept of their reaction to the flop-due to your bad position)..and as you've eluded to-no chance of pushing your opponent with a *better-but-not-nut-hand* out of the pot? Does your comment that they are weak enough to call actually still apply if the flush does close?
It seems as though you should save your money- there ARE better opportunities.
I had two follow up questions, but wanted to say first that I'm sincerely asking ...may way of looking at this may be completely off.
I'm wondering about your term "speculative hands" that implies you limp in the early stages with all Axs? I'm guessing not-so, again- Why is the '9' special? Limping with the hopes of hitting two pairs(and/or flush draw) doesn't seem reason enough to me -on that logic wouldn't any two become playable? (or at least any two suited)
The we add the variable that you are out OOP in a fast moving- short stack sng- and I have trouble seeing why knowing that Ysbirdy will call is an advantage?
Presuming that a few of the 'loose players' limp with..how much would you lead out on the flop and turn? I can't imagine a scenario in which you are not committing a large % of your stack (I consider that to be 10% or more) without even being a favourite to win, no information on your opponents (no concept of their reaction to the flop-due to your bad position)..and as you've eluded to-no chance of pushing your opponent with a *better-but-not-nut-hand* out of the pot? Does your comment that they are weak enough to call actually still apply if the flush does close?
It seems as though you should save your money- there ARE better opportunities.
Please let me know if I'm missing something here.
Trolling for info for the next PFC tourney? LOL
My limping depends on the table (hell I've limped with AA on a very agressive table)
A9s, IMHO is a hand in the grey area especially so in the PNL S&G with the blinds raising every 8 hands. In a deep stack tourney I am most likely folding it.
It's not quite A-rag but needs to be played carefully and in general I know how to bail on it.
To address your comment/question of any 2, no I don't limp with any 2 suited cards but I do like suited connectors early on.
If I get a favorable flop (lets say all below 10), I am probably firing out 1/2 - 3/4 of the pot (assuming no PFR).
I've seen enough of YsBirdy to put about a 75% chance of him calling if the flush closes (with only 3 on the board) and he has a piece of the board.
Hope this answered your questions.
As an aside, any chance of a deep stack tourney with a bit less aggressive blinds to take some of the BINGO aspect away?
I finished ahead NL, you finished ahead in Limit..the next one's the rubber between you and I..any interest in a last-longer bet? I suggest the first one out should have to change their signature to "pwned by..." until they come out ahead of the other.
I don't think I'm allowed to say "ace nine" on PNL anymore after the war that John and Lou had. I didn't see it, but beleive me, I've heard about it.
IMHO if it's a passive table and the blinds are low I will limp with any suited ace from UTG. Unsuited I fold. My objective isn't to make one pair of aces... it is to make the nut flush and bust some poor sucker. Of course, that doesn't happen very often, but you know... low blinds... passive table... I say give 'er.
You guys went to war over THIS?!? When I went to war with Lou, it was over something decent at least. I believe it was about whether or not open-limping from the button with pocket nines is a terrible play. (I thought it was, Lou thought it wasn't.)
As far as whether or not to open limp A9s UTG. It depends on the table makeup and the size of the blinds. With a good grasp of your opponents (typically bad opponents) and deep stacks, I don't think it's a horrid play. It's really an implied odds decision.
As far as open limping 99 on the button. Last week I'd say yes, open limping is bad. Now, I don't know what to think. Sklansky/Miller's NLHE book is really driving home how little preflop play is a factor in deepstack NLHE. I still consider myself a pretty poor NL player, but that book is opening my eyes to just how complex the game can be. It's a game of implied odds/reads/table image. In a limit ring game, I'd be inclined to think open limping most playable hands on the button is a fairly weak play though.
I don't think I'm allowed to say "ace nine" on PNL anymore after the war that John and Lou had. I didn't see it, but beleive me, I've heard about it.
IMHO if it's a passive table and the blinds are low I will limp with any suited ace from UTG. Unsuited I fold. My objective isn't to make one pair of aces... it is to make the nut flush and bust some poor sucker. Of course, that doesn't happen very often, but you know... low blinds... passive table... I say give 'er.
You guys went to war over THIS?!? When I went to war with Lou, it was over something decent at least. I believe it was about whether or not open-limping from the button with pocket nines is a terrible play. (I thought it was, Lou thought it wasn't.)
I don't think limping with 99 on the button once in a while is a bad thing *if* the stacks are very deep (I don't know how deep they were in your argument). (I'm talking 75x BB at least). Raising, of course, is ok too.
I just like having the blinds hit 2 pair or top pair or something when I hit a set so I'd rather not scare them off. Sure, sometimes the flop will come high cards and your hand is garbage then but you limped so you haven't really invested anything anyways. Plus, if you get reraised by the blinds it makes 99 very difficult to play. Even if you have the implied odds from hitting a set you never know if the blinds are reraising light and you won't get their stack anyway.
So basically, I think limping 99 on button w/ 75+ BBs is underrated.
(Naturally if you have 200x BB or more, it's an auto raise)
As for the limping A9s in early position in a sit and go:
In the sit and gos that you analyze on PNL, the stacks really aren't all that deep. I've played and spent a lot of time analyzing thousands of high stakes sit and gos on Stars and consider myself to be very good at them. In my opinion, limping A9s in early position is not a good play, ESPECIALLY with the shortish stacks on those sit and gos you look at.
Sure, all you're doing is trying to hit a flush or a flush draw, but any world class sit and go player will tell you that the way you make money in sit and gos is to play extremely tight early and "pushbot" late (especially in those crazy ones with the blinds doubling).
Playing A9s in position in a limped pot is fine. Playing it in early position is simply wasting chips to me. If the pot is raised you have to fold. If it's not, you're out of position. Once in a blue moon you'll get a flush and double up. The rest of the times, you'll either lose chips by missing the flop, call off chips by missing your draw or get into kicker trouble (admittedly, any good player should be able to avoid this), but sometimes tough flops like 976 could come down and get you into hot water. Even when you do hit your flush, it's harder to extract chips out of position and there's no guarantee you'll be able to do it (the third flush card usually scares most players).
As well, playing a nitty tight early game helps you later in the sit and go when you have that tight image and begin to push marginal hands. People often notice when you get to the fourth level and have only played a hand or two (or none in some cases) and throw away hands they should be calling you with.
The most important thing is that the top 3 out of 8 get paid in the SNGs you analyze. It's not like a MTT where the only money you should be gunning for is usually in the top 3 out of, say, 200. It's only the top 3 out of 8. So your equity in the tournament increases quite a bit by letting the other people eliminate themselves. You pick your spots and double up twice or so and you're in, making a profit. In an MTT, you have to take chances to build a stack where it will serve you a lot better and allow you a lot of room to play with because stacks stay relatively deep. I'd sometimes limp or raise A9s in early position early in an MTT, although I'm not claiming to be an expert at MTTs.
In sum, muck your A9s every time in early position early in SNGs. Looking forward to hearing if I changed your mind
Comments
http://www.riverbelle.com/poker/banking/index.asp?VT=23144711&a=28690&EventID=27123#transfer
It's at the very very bottom. Would you be willing to make the transfer Actpyer? You're guaranteed the 200 CPF$ since the moderators can see this conversation, i'll get emai Sloth if you'd be willing... pleeeease?
My account name is ChristopherW
I got an email reply saying they forwarded my email to the correct people, that was 3 hours ago and i still haven't heard back... the tourney is in 2 hours
P.S PNL anouncers if there are any MTT that will be aired on PNL i'd like to play in them in the future so just gimme a heads up so i can get some funds available. TY
Limping with Q9o, short stacked was just soooooo baaaadddd
I deserved the comments at the end and but at least I won my next game...
Good call on where I got my name...Thomas Hobbes (not Calvin and Hobbes as most think)
Hobbes
As for the MTT, doesn't look like we will be having them yet, but it was one of the suggestions brought up at a recent meeting. That and more no-limit, limit and some other ideas. If you have any questions regarding specific websites and that, unfortunately I cannot help..but I wish you all luck on the show once you get there. The hosts don't select the games...it is typically the guys in the "control room" that make these decisions.
Johnny T
thx for any help
You spokeded good...did you lern that in skool? hahahaha
Sorry I have been away from the forum for so long. I was having some difficulty logging in for a while. Seems like the problem is all fixed. Lucky Lou and I were having an interesting debate on our last show together regarding a hand - A9s. In the early going of a sit and go, when the blinds are low, and the game is loose, I didn't mind a limp from under the gun. Wondering if anyone had any thoughts that they would like to add?
A9s UTG in the early stages? I probably either fold it because I don't know enough about the table, or raise if I know too much about it.
Mark
I think if you really want to play this hand, you should be raising it... that way at least you have a way of winning the pot if you miss. Not to mention your contributing to your image.
On a seperate note - how do I get on the show? I've been watching the show for awhile now and I think it would be interesting to watch myself play. I think it would be a good way to anylyse my play.
I have money on poker 333 but everytime I go to try and join a table, I can't find anything...
Mike
Its just another Axs and my thinking is -Not worth the effort and risk oop.
If for some reason you believe the conditions are right to try to play it (maybe a REALLY tight table with too much respect for UTG raises?) I agree that its a raise and your intention is to take the blinds....
This means two things to me:
1. Playing this hand early in the sng is unnecessary-since the blinds are not worth stealing.
2. When the blinds ARE worth stealing and the conditions are right to attempt to do so UTG -defining the hand as "A-9s" is irrelevant; you would be raising to steal with a much wider variety of hands.
Thats my most intuitive answer..am I looking at this situation correctly?
I'm really interested in some feedback here -This is what I get for missing an episode! I hope my questions weren't already answered.
I wan't trying to steal but with some of the loose players at the table that night (YsBirdy Esp), I was willing to limp early in the tourney on some speculative hands. Won't do that if I don't know the players.
It was only 20 chips to limp. If the flop hit me hard (2pr/flushdraw) I would have come out betting and probably been paid off by YsBirdy.
Not sure if I would have called the first raise to 80, but when Ys reraised it was time to dump.
BTW went out when Ys called my QQ allin1 for about 1/2 his chips with K5o and hit his king.
Hey Hobbes,
I had two follow up questions, but wanted to say first that I'm sincerely asking ...my way of looking at this may be completely off.
I'm wondering about your term "speculative hands" that implies you limp in the early stages with all Axs? I'm guessing not-so, again- Why is the '9' special? Limping with the hopes of hitting two pairs(and/or flush draw) doesn't seem reason enough to me -on that logic wouldn't any two become playable? (or at least any two suited)
The we add the variable that you are out OOP in a fast moving- short stack sng- and I have trouble seeing why knowing that Ysbirdy will call is an advantage?
Presuming that a few of the 'loose players' limp with..how much would you lead out on the flop and turn? I can't imagine a scenario in which you are not committing a large % of your stack (I consider that to be 10% or more) without even being a favourite to win, no information on your opponents (no concept of their reaction to the flop-due to your bad position)..and as you've eluded to-no chance of pushing your opponent with a *better-but-not-nut-hand* out of the pot? Does your comment that they are weak enough to call actually still apply if the flush does close?
It seems as though you should save your money- there ARE better opportunities.
Please let me know if I'm missing something here.
Trolling for info for the next PFC tourney? LOL
My limping depends on the table (hell I've limped with AA on a very agressive table)
A9s, IMHO is a hand in the grey area especially so in the PNL S&G with the blinds raising every 8 hands. In a deep stack tourney I am most likely folding it.
It's not quite A-rag but needs to be played carefully and in general I know how to bail on it.
To address your comment/question of any 2, no I don't limp with any 2 suited cards but I do like suited connectors early on.
If I get a favorable flop (lets say all below 10), I am probably firing out 1/2 - 3/4 of the pot (assuming no PFR).
I've seen enough of YsBirdy to put about a 75% chance of him calling if the flush closes (with only 3 on the board) and he has a piece of the board.
Hope this answered your questions.
As an aside, any chance of a deep stack tourney with a bit less aggressive blinds to take some of the BINGO aspect away?
Hells ya!
I finished ahead NL, you finished ahead in Limit..the next one's the rubber between you and I..any interest in a last-longer bet? I suggest the first one out should have to change their signature to "pwned by..." until they come out ahead of the other.
you in?
IMHO if it's a passive table and the blinds are low I will limp with any suited ace from UTG. Unsuited I fold. My objective isn't to make one pair of aces... it is to make the nut flush and bust some poor sucker. Of course, that doesn't happen very often, but you know... low blinds... passive table... I say give 'er.
You guys went to war over THIS?!? When I went to war with Lou, it was over something decent at least.
As far as open limping 99 on the button. Last week I'd say yes, open limping is bad. Now, I don't know what to think. Sklansky/Miller's NLHE book is really driving home how little preflop play is a factor in deepstack NLHE. I still consider myself a pretty poor NL player, but that book is opening my eyes to just how complex the game can be. It's a game of implied odds/reads/table image. In a limit ring game, I'd be inclined to think open limping most playable hands on the button is a fairly weak play though.
Maybe you can refer to it as "The Scottish Hand"
lol
(Let's see who gets it)
I don't think limping with 99 on the button once in a while is a bad thing *if* the stacks are very deep (I don't know how deep they were in your argument). (I'm talking 75x BB at least). Raising, of course, is ok too.
I just like having the blinds hit 2 pair or top pair or something when I hit a set so I'd rather not scare them off. Sure, sometimes the flop will come high cards and your hand is garbage then but you limped so you haven't really invested anything anyways. Plus, if you get reraised by the blinds it makes 99 very difficult to play. Even if you have the implied odds from hitting a set you never know if the blinds are reraising light and you won't get their stack anyway.
So basically, I think limping 99 on button w/ 75+ BBs is underrated.
(Naturally if you have 200x BB or more, it's an auto raise)
Ryan
As for the limping A9s in early position in a sit and go:
In the sit and gos that you analyze on PNL, the stacks really aren't all that deep. I've played and spent a lot of time analyzing thousands of high stakes sit and gos on Stars and consider myself to be very good at them. In my opinion, limping A9s in early position is not a good play, ESPECIALLY with the shortish stacks on those sit and gos you look at.
Sure, all you're doing is trying to hit a flush or a flush draw, but any world class sit and go player will tell you that the way you make money in sit and gos is to play extremely tight early and "pushbot" late (especially in those crazy ones with the blinds doubling).
Playing A9s in position in a limped pot is fine. Playing it in early position is simply wasting chips to me. If the pot is raised you have to fold. If it's not, you're out of position. Once in a blue moon you'll get a flush and double up. The rest of the times, you'll either lose chips by missing the flop, call off chips by missing your draw or get into kicker trouble (admittedly, any good player should be able to avoid this), but sometimes tough flops like 976 could come down and get you into hot water. Even when you do hit your flush, it's harder to extract chips out of position and there's no guarantee you'll be able to do it (the third flush card usually scares most players).
As well, playing a nitty tight early game helps you later in the sit and go when you have that tight image and begin to push marginal hands. People often notice when you get to the fourth level and have only played a hand or two (or none in some cases) and throw away hands they should be calling you with.
The most important thing is that the top 3 out of 8 get paid in the SNGs you analyze. It's not like a MTT where the only money you should be gunning for is usually in the top 3 out of, say, 200. It's only the top 3 out of 8. So your equity in the tournament increases quite a bit by letting the other people eliminate themselves. You pick your spots and double up twice or so and you're in, making a profit. In an MTT, you have to take chances to build a stack where it will serve you a lot better and allow you a lot of room to play with because stacks stay relatively deep. I'd sometimes limp or raise A9s in early position early in an MTT, although I'm not claiming to be an expert at MTTs.
In sum, muck your A9s every time in early position early in SNGs. Looking forward to hearing if I changed your mind
Ryan