So after posting about what we know, another player on 2+2 links to this: Staking Dispute Question
Almost indentical "dispute" with unpaid BAP, same excuses on his end, but the community says his reputation proceeds him...how many of these angles, or scams does it take as evidence? This 9 pager says a lot.
Jon we were past the need for evidence years ago...
I don't know what are suggesting should be done:
1) ban him from the community
2) don't loan him money
3) call him a scumbag
You are a super good dude I am positive of it, and I am sorry that Bren had to deal with this. There are many other stories no doubt, I've witnessed some of them, but there will always be 2 re-occuring themes with MG (1) there will always be intelligent and morally good people that stick up for him in some form and (2) he compulsively heads for these situations like a problem gambler heads for a casino.
People can high 5 each others "scumbag" comments all they want, but the reality is the situation is full of ignorance from all sides.
Appreciate that. It's not about Bren though, it's the only evidence I can present that isn't second hand, and that seems important to some.
It's about 2 friends now that are affected by his actions. Uwintakeit was eventually cleared in the 2+2 thread as not being him, but anyone not wanting to comb through 21 pages might not get that. It seems he looks for lesser know HS players to impersonate or "associate" with to sell his stories.
The impact to one of these guys reputations could potentially cost he/she very large money, not cool
jeez Macke, you are out of the loop. fed uprooted to vancouver because there are more couch moving opportunities there.
Trigs we still want to hear your philosophy on these issues. What sense do you make of this author?
And when one of you falls down he falls for those behind him, a caution against the stumbling stone.
Ay, and he falls for those ahead of him, who though faster and surer of foot, yet removed not the stumbling stone.
And this also, though the word lie heavy upon your hearts:
The murdered is not unaccountable for his own murder,
And the robbed is not blameless in being robbed.
The righteous is not innocent of the deeds of the wicked,
What do you think about standing by in the face of social injustice such as antisemitism or slavery? Should we rape rapists, murder murderers, and outcast outcasters?
If abuse doesn't fix a dog from its errors is the abuse still justified? Was it ever justified?
What do we think of someone that loses 20k to a known scammer and then comes to the forum to complain about it? How does a morally good society act towards these types like MG?
You posted a lot of text book philosophy content, lets put it to some use...
So far it looks like you have simply jumped on the bandwagon, taking the time to make a post that isn't funny, useful, or intelligent...but that you know will be well supported by the "group".
be nice to me darb please. i'm responding. i'm just lazy (and i'm a little busy with work lately).
here's my opinion on the matter (figured i'd keep it in this thread):
Fed is the type of guy who cannot control his actions, perhaps because he is addicted or maybe because his mother didn’t hold him enough as a child. In any case (the reason of which is not important for a discussion here), due to this character flaw of his, he did terrible things to people – he lied, he cheated, he stole.
However, the question has been asked as to whether he should be held accountable for his actions if he himself had no choice in the matter. That is, if he is addicted, or sick, or some parasitic insect burrowed into his brain and made him act like an asshole all the time (the “asshole bug”), should we be allowed to judge him still? Does he deserve the blame (or praise) he is getting? Moreover, was it determined that he would act like this and he had no free will to do otherwise? (We can even go further to debates of nature vs. nurture but I’ll avoid that here for now).
When we talk about someone who is determined in this manner and whether they deserve any blame or praise with respect to their actions, we have to consider the Principal of Alternative Possibilities (PAP). Basically, it states that a person is responsible for their actions only if that person could have done otherwise (i.e. they have to have the possibility of acting different than they did). Many people believe this statement to be necessarily true by common sense, and we tend to forgive those who clearly didn’t have a choice in the matter.
It is arguable that Fed had no choice. Perhaps the parasitic asshole bug is so deep in his brain that even if doctors knew of its existence, they couldn’t remove it without killing him. Hence, it was only a matter of time before he cheated and stole tons of money from people, and he himself was powerless to stop it. Now, if that is the case here, the philosopher Harry Frankfurt has a unique rebuttal.
He argues that even if we have no choice in the matter (i.e. our actions are determined) we are still nonetheless responsible for our actions even when we have no freedom to act otherwise. Consider the following Frankfurt example (borrowed from Wikipedia):
“Donald is a Democrat and is likely to vote for the Democrats; in fact, only in one particular circumstance will he not: that is, if he thinks about the prospects of immediate American defeat in Iraq just prior to voting. Ms White, a representative of the Democratic Party, wants to ensure that Donald votes Democratic, so she secretly plants a device in Donald's head that, if activated, will force him to vote Democratic. Not wishing to reveal her presence unnecessarily, Ms White plans to activate the device only if Donald thinks about the Iraq War prior to voting. As things happen, Donald does not think about Iraq prior to voting, so Ms White thus sees no reason to activate the device, and Donald votes Democratic of his own accord. Apparently, Donald is responsible for voting Democratic although, owing to Ms. White's device, he lacks freedom to do otherwise.”
In this example, we can see that one can still be morally responsible for their actions even if they had no ability to freely act differently in the situation. The only way to resolve this issue is to include coercion in the PAP (but I’ll ignore this for now).
So, even if Fed had no choice in the matter and acted in a way that he had no alternative possibility to act, he should still be held accountable and responsible for his actions. (Plus, he’s an asshole and deserves everything coming to him.)
Trigs we still want to hear your philosophy on these issues. What sense do you make of this author?
What do you think about standing by in the face of social injustice such as antisemitism or slavery? Should we rape rapists, murder murderers, and outcast outcasters?
If abuse doesn't fix a dog from its errors is the abuse still justified? Was it ever justified?
What do we think of someone that loses 20k to a known scammer and then comes to the forum to complain about it? How does a morally good society act towards these types like MG?
You posted a lot of text book philosophy content, lets put it to some use...
So far it looks like you have simply jumped on the bandwagon, taking the time to make a post that isn't funny, useful, or intelligent...but that you know will be well supported by the "group".
now this is a different question. once we establish that fed should be punished, what exactly should his punishment be? that's a very good question and i honestly do not know. again, i have some opinions, but i probably have very few reasons to back them up. i'm normally not in the punishment camp for most things - i'm usually the one getting punished
now this is a different question. once we establish that fed should be punished, what exactly should his punishment be? that's a very good question and i honestly do not know. again, i have some opinions, but i probably have very few reasons to back them up.
I can get deep and line by line but lets be quick. This is my point, that you (and others) have dodged the hard part. And the hard part is the reality.
Jon says "how much more evidence do we need?" and to me he has lost his marbles (prob because hes emotional since it effects his wife) but we don't need more evidence, we haven't for a very long time, and it is not at all the issue.
So as a community our function simple seems to be MG is guilty, hes an asshole fucktard, he should be held responsible and accountable...
But then what?
I want you to lead me through the moral logic and philosophy of the resolution, the hard part...
not simple rehash different philosophical viewpoints...
or admit it is too difficult and you cannot do it so readily...
or join the mob or allow it to rule...
all while admitting this...
i'm normally not in the punishment camp for most things - i'm usually the one getting punished
Has anyone here actually played with Fed? Maybe GTA? Their relationship seems to be pretty deep.
Honestly only time I remember him playing was he did ship some $5 MTT on Stars for like 4k.... and his previously mentioned moving to Vancouver to play 1/2 pro (Which he never seemed to play.)
I can get deep and line by line but lets be quick. This is my point, that you (and others) have dodged the hard part. And the hard part is the reality.
Jon says "how much more evidence do we need?" and to me he has lost his marbles (prob because hes emotional since it effects his wife) but we don't need more evidence, we haven't for a very long time, and it is not at all the issue.
So as a community our function simple seems to be MG is guilty, hes an asshole fucktard, he should be held responsible and accountable...
But then what?
I want you to lead me through the moral logic and philosophy of the resolution, the hard part...
not simple rehash different philosophical viewpoints...
or admit it is too difficult and you cannot do it so readily...
or join the mob or allow it to rule...
all while admitting this...
I hope you will address the hard questions
i'll attempt to answer this too darb if you want. i was just saying that that wasn't what it seemed like you were asking before. i thought you were asking if he should be punished, not how he should be punished.
EDIT: btw darb, you seem to be belittling me (as usual) even though i feel that i'm being very respectful to your comments. i will ask you again to please show me (and others) some respect even though we may disagree with you. i've told you this before you were banned previously that the words you choose come off as very arrogant. i'm willing to debate, but i don't like the way you are disagreeing with me. you can have your opinion, but if you just keep talking down to me like a dick i'll just start ignoring you.
i'll attempt to answer this too darb if you want. i was just saying that that wasn't what it seemed like you were asking before. i thought you were asking if he should be punished, not how he should be punished.
When you begin to explore HOW he should be punished you will lose your footing for the grounds that he SHOULD be punished. So I understand your confusion, but I don't think it is my fault. I think you have not come to the obvious realization you/we will have once we start to properly look at the situation. I say obvious because perhaps I am a cocky asshole that always thinks he is right...
Or perhaps it will get obvious...
EDIT: btw darb, you seem to be belittling me (as usual) even though i feel that i'm being very respectful to your comments. i will ask you again to please show me (and others) some respect even though we may disagree with you. i've told you this before you were banned previously that the words you choose come off as very arrogant. i'm willing to debate, but i don't like the way you are disagreeing with me. you can have your opinion, but if you just keep talking down to me like a dick i'll just start ignoring you.
Well maybe the issue is that i am belittling you...
But I can tell you with certainly I have zero ounces of hate or specifically antisemitism or racism in me. I don't understand how people could act in such ways and hold hate for people especially knowing we are all from the same whole.
Yet 3 people plus the collective masses here allowed such myths and slander to be spread about me, and it still continues.
The same people that outcasted me for allegedly wanted to outcast Jewish people, are actually truly those people that wish to segregate others in our society. They wish to look down on certain peoples. A view I think is terrible, and ultimately the cause of violence and suffering in this world.
You stand by to watch that happen, but spend pages and pages giving rehashes of academic philosophical viewpoints, and seemingly refuse to apply it to real life critical thinking....
I don't think I am being unfair in this regard to you or others. I think we are collectively a tragedy, and I don't think "nazism" and "antisemitism" ended with WWII, I think we enact it everyday in micro communities such as this one, where the majority seeks out the weak and exploits them, while the truly intelligent and emotionally stable people like yourself and Wetts stands by.
I am sorry I am disruptive and seen as a racist fuckwad, but I would like to somehow change this group behavior of prejudice and segregating behavior. I will always remain confused about how this has me branded as racist.
It seems that it's still up in the air, or up for debate as to wether or not people should be warned. I'd say, given that the 2+2 thread claims 20k and other people's reputations are becoming at risk, when we do have info on what alias he's going under now, he should either be booted or outed.
I'm really not sure if this has ever been decided, he seems to pull on the heart strings just enough to fly under the radar awhile. I don't think he's ever been labelled a scammer, more a troll.
This just keeps going round and round and round and going nowhere.
Darb, are you in any way capable of understanding that not everyone agrees with your philosophies and may actually have their own belief systems that are different from yours? Some people don't want to adopt their "enemies" as you call them and bring them in closer to themselves? Some people, like Wetts, are ok with just kicking a guy out of their house if they don't want him there? They don't feel the need to ponder all moral and philosophical aspects or global human consequences of this action?
I really don't understand how the situation in the OP can be turned into such an incredible melodramatic firestorm where people are equating the results to executions and murder, etc. etc. etc. Or dragging it out into lengthy dissertations or the philosophical ramblings we're seeing here.
Some people are ok with the simple version. 'Guy stole, got outed, it made big news on the poker forums, people are talking about it, people don't want guy around anymore.'
I don't see how continually bringing the issue back to yourself or your previous history on here is anything other than self aggrandizing. It's incredibly arrogant to continually hammer away at people with your own philosophies because you believe every one in the discussion is wrong and you're right, but they're just too ignorant or stupid to understand your arguments.
Quick question. Are you debating all of these issues with the populations on P5 or 2+2? If not, why not? Those folks probably need to be saved from themselves too.
It seems that it's still up in the air, or up for debate as to wether or not people should be warned. I'd say, given that the 2+2 thread claims 20k and other people's reputations are becoming at risk, when we do have info on what alias he's going under now, he should either be booted or outed.
I'm really not sure if this has ever been decided, he seems to pull on the heart strings just enough to fly under the radar awhile. I don't think he's ever been labelled a scammer, more a troll.
He's not just a troll, he is a scammer.
The intelligent people that know him know exactly what he is...ie do not give him money you want back..
it is a very old realization especially for this forum...someone posts he scammed 20k, the only people that question the obvious is people that are likely to lose their money to such peoples or people that have no clue what is going on...
and there are many of them
But the difficulty and the reality and the part where we are insane if we don't deal with... is he has already been outed an booted many times for many years...
The question begins to become, have we not been assholes enough to him? Do we need to be abusive or more abusive? Do we let GTA and Mark stomp all over him? Do we throw tomatoes or rocks?
What can be done about it Jon, other than sit back while people less intelligent than you and less moral than you hand out pitch forks...and why is the solution that would make things worse (outcasting) favored and allowed by the masses?
This just keeps going round and round and round and going nowhere.
Darb, are you in any way capable of understanding that not everyone agrees with your philosophies and may actually have their own belief systems that are different from yours? Some people don't want to adopt their "enemies" as you call them and bring them in closer to themselves? Some people, like Wetts, are ok with just kicking a guy out of their house if they don't want him there? They don't feel the need to ponder all moral and philosophical aspects or global human consequences of this action?
I very capable of understanding not everyone agrees or believes in what I do. I notice here some feel its fine to paint peoples in negative lights with accusations they are not. I notice others like to stand around while it happens because they do not wish to risk their own reputation. I notice others willingly hold my hands behind my back and silence my voice on the unfairness of this.
I see people will to pass and inflict judgement and punishment but not willing to consider the moral implications, like you point out.
I see you feel I should not stand up for what I believe in, and that I should not go against the crowd?
I see many people attacking me, with no message of their own, simply because they are part of the favored group.
I really don't understand how the situation in the OP can be turned into such an incredible melodramatic firestorm where people are equating the results to executions and murder, etc. etc. etc. Or dragging it out into lengthy dissertations or the philosophical ramblings we're seeing here.
You probably also don't understand why so many high stakes players tolerate MG. I do though, and this is why it is not going away, not here or on the other social forums. Not because of me, but because the intelligent players in this community rule it. It is complicated and multi layer, and that is the truth. Some which to sentence a man based on convenience.
Some people are ok with the simple version. 'Guy stole, got outed, it made big news on the poker forums, people are talking about it, people don't want guy around anymore.'
It is not the story. Guy can't help it, many degens support his habits and then turn on him in the end, and this forum helped facilitate his demise.
I don't see how continually bringing the issue back to yourself or your previous history on here is anything other than self aggrandizing. It's incredibly arrogant to continually hammer away at people with your own philosophies because you believe every one in the discussion is wrong and you're right, but they're just too ignorant or stupid to understand your arguments.
I actually of am the full belief that you can see how a small group of people conspired to convince the larger group I am antisemitic, are the same people that conspire against MG, and do whatever they can to make him fail.
But again that is not simple and convenient ....it is truth though.
Quick question. Are you debating all of these issues with the populations on P5 or 2+2? If not, why not? Those folks probably need to be saved from themselves too.
I am putting my efforts where they are most vital.
And I think you will find as time goes by the spotlight shifts this way anyways...I suspect we have not yet broken the surface on this issue.
This is not a post with content. It is a direct attack. We require a very significant dialog about a very significant and relevant subject. We wish you to join in sincerely, without attacking people for the sake of attacking them.
Its cute...but its really telling of those that are trying to hold up lies and propaganda:
This is not a post with content. It is a direct attack. We require a very significant dialog about a very significant and relevant subject. We wish you to join in sincerely, without attacking people for the sake of attacking them.
Its cute...but its really telling of those that are trying to hold up lies and propaganda:
I thought the fact that I was trolling you would be pretty clear…maybe not quite as smart as you think you are?
I could ship pictures of asses for the next 20 posts, and still be providing more user-friendly content to this thread than you ever will.
And when exactly would you calling GTA and Mark vicious bullies and assholes not be considered a direct attack?
Now get the fuck off my lawn, kid, your whiny/play victim/sad bastard/ crocodile tears are flooding the joint.
Enjoy the spotlight you're casting on yourself. It does get hot tho.
I'm just looking forward to finally being able to come to the collective "realization" that:
1) I am not racist or antisemitic
2) I think nobody deserves to be humanized or outcast from society
3) Some people here believe in segregation
4) Those people were responsible for a false accusations and a campaign to have me ostracized.
These people have had a hand in MG's demise, and continue to attempt to control his fate.
Seems relevant and significant, and interesting that others would stand by and or participate....
And when exactly would you calling GTA and Mark vicious bullies and assholes not be considered a direct attack?
The difference is they are being violent and bullies, and they are attacking and preying on people they see as weaker.
I am definitely attempting significant dialog, it is clear, and is weird to see you try to twist that...
My theory Kristy, is that these people will only allow you to hang out with them if you don't offer them any real opinion or content...but if you simply play the sarcasm/wit game and be the "girl that's just like the guys" then you will fit in.
I suspect that is why there are so few females on this forum, and almost none that contribute in a meaningful way...
and its not a sexist thing, I know you have an opinion, in fact you often seem to stick up for MG...but your real thoughts aren't so welcome are they?
So yes, attack me, and post gifs it will be easier for you amongst this crowd of men as long as you don't start posting your well thought out opinions.
I'm just looking forward to finally being able to come to the collective "realization" that:
1) I am not racist or antisemitic
2) I think nobody deserves to be humanized or outcast from society
3) Some people here believe in segregation
4) Those people were responsible for a false accusations and a campaign to have me ostracized.
These people have had a hand in MG's demise, and continue to attempt to control his fate.
Seems relevant and significant, and interesting that others would stand by and or participate....
Two of your 4 points relate specifically to you. Enjoy the stage.
Two of your 4 points relate specifically to you. Enjoy the stage.
You have never really understood what is going on, and I should not have to jeopardize my "image" just by simply pointing that out. I would gladly take the heat of such a "spotlight" so he or others are not subject to the violent notions and behaviors of GTA and Mark. That should be clear.
No one is absolved because they don't participate and only "watch".
And the spotlight is likely to get bigger than me...
Comments
Racist.
Mark
I don't know what are suggesting should be done:
1) ban him from the community
2) don't loan him money
3) call him a scumbag
You are a super good dude I am positive of it, and I am sorry that Bren had to deal with this. There are many other stories no doubt, I've witnessed some of them, but there will always be 2 re-occuring themes with MG (1) there will always be intelligent and morally good people that stick up for him in some form and (2) he compulsively heads for these situations like a problem gambler heads for a casino.
People can high 5 each others "scumbag" comments all they want, but the reality is the situation is full of ignorance from all sides.
It's about 2 friends now that are affected by his actions. Uwintakeit was eventually cleared in the 2+2 thread as not being him, but anyone not wanting to comb through 21 pages might not get that. It seems he looks for lesser know HS players to impersonate or "associate" with to sell his stories.
The impact to one of these guys reputations could potentially cost he/she very large money, not cool
what did you mean by this?
jeez Macke, you are out of the loop. fed uprooted to vancouver because there are more couch moving opportunities there.
If abuse doesn't fix a dog from its errors is the abuse still justified? Was it ever justified?
What do we think of someone that loses 20k to a known scammer and then comes to the forum to complain about it? How does a morally good society act towards these types like MG?
You posted a lot of text book philosophy content, lets put it to some use...
So far it looks like you have simply jumped on the bandwagon, taking the time to make a post that isn't funny, useful, or intelligent...but that you know will be well supported by the "group".
Have you seen most winning poker players handle their money?
here's my opinion on the matter (figured i'd keep it in this thread):
Fed is the type of guy who cannot control his actions, perhaps because he is addicted or maybe because his mother didn’t hold him enough as a child. In any case (the reason of which is not important for a discussion here), due to this character flaw of his, he did terrible things to people – he lied, he cheated, he stole.
However, the question has been asked as to whether he should be held accountable for his actions if he himself had no choice in the matter. That is, if he is addicted, or sick, or some parasitic insect burrowed into his brain and made him act like an asshole all the time (the “asshole bug”), should we be allowed to judge him still? Does he deserve the blame (or praise) he is getting? Moreover, was it determined that he would act like this and he had no free will to do otherwise? (We can even go further to debates of nature vs. nurture but I’ll avoid that here for now).
When we talk about someone who is determined in this manner and whether they deserve any blame or praise with respect to their actions, we have to consider the Principal of Alternative Possibilities (PAP). Basically, it states that a person is responsible for their actions only if that person could have done otherwise (i.e. they have to have the possibility of acting different than they did). Many people believe this statement to be necessarily true by common sense, and we tend to forgive those who clearly didn’t have a choice in the matter.
It is arguable that Fed had no choice. Perhaps the parasitic asshole bug is so deep in his brain that even if doctors knew of its existence, they couldn’t remove it without killing him. Hence, it was only a matter of time before he cheated and stole tons of money from people, and he himself was powerless to stop it. Now, if that is the case here, the philosopher Harry Frankfurt has a unique rebuttal.
He argues that even if we have no choice in the matter (i.e. our actions are determined) we are still nonetheless responsible for our actions even when we have no freedom to act otherwise. Consider the following Frankfurt example (borrowed from Wikipedia):
In this example, we can see that one can still be morally responsible for their actions even if they had no ability to freely act differently in the situation. The only way to resolve this issue is to include coercion in the PAP (but I’ll ignore this for now).
So, even if Fed had no choice in the matter and acted in a way that he had no alternative possibility to act, he should still be held accountable and responsible for his actions. (Plus, he’s an asshole and deserves everything coming to him.)
now this is a different question. once we establish that fed should be punished, what exactly should his punishment be? that's a very good question and i honestly do not know. again, i have some opinions, but i probably have very few reasons to back them up. i'm normally not in the punishment camp for most things - i'm usually the one getting punished
Jon says "how much more evidence do we need?" and to me he has lost his marbles (prob because hes emotional since it effects his wife) but we don't need more evidence, we haven't for a very long time, and it is not at all the issue.
So as a community our function simple seems to be MG is guilty, hes an asshole fucktard, he should be held responsible and accountable...
But then what?
I want you to lead me through the moral logic and philosophy of the resolution, the hard part...
not simple rehash different philosophical viewpoints...
or admit it is too difficult and you cannot do it so readily...
or join the mob or allow it to rule...
all while admitting this...
I hope you will address the hard questions
Honestly only time I remember him playing was he did ship some $5 MTT on Stars for like 4k.... and his previously mentioned moving to Vancouver to play 1/2 pro (Which he never seemed to play.)
i'll attempt to answer this too darb if you want. i was just saying that that wasn't what it seemed like you were asking before. i thought you were asking if he should be punished, not how he should be punished.
EDIT: btw darb, you seem to be belittling me (as usual) even though i feel that i'm being very respectful to your comments. i will ask you again to please show me (and others) some respect even though we may disagree with you. i've told you this before you were banned previously that the words you choose come off as very arrogant. i'm willing to debate, but i don't like the way you are disagreeing with me. you can have your opinion, but if you just keep talking down to me like a dick i'll just start ignoring you.
Or perhaps it will get obvious...
Well maybe the issue is that i am belittling you...
But I can tell you with certainly I have zero ounces of hate or specifically antisemitism or racism in me. I don't understand how people could act in such ways and hold hate for people especially knowing we are all from the same whole.
Yet 3 people plus the collective masses here allowed such myths and slander to be spread about me, and it still continues.
The same people that outcasted me for allegedly wanted to outcast Jewish people, are actually truly those people that wish to segregate others in our society. They wish to look down on certain peoples. A view I think is terrible, and ultimately the cause of violence and suffering in this world.
You stand by to watch that happen, but spend pages and pages giving rehashes of academic philosophical viewpoints, and seemingly refuse to apply it to real life critical thinking....
I don't think I am being unfair in this regard to you or others. I think we are collectively a tragedy, and I don't think "nazism" and "antisemitism" ended with WWII, I think we enact it everyday in micro communities such as this one, where the majority seeks out the weak and exploits them, while the truly intelligent and emotionally stable people like yourself and Wetts stands by.
I am sorry I am disruptive and seen as a racist fuckwad, but I would like to somehow change this group behavior of prejudice and segregating behavior. I will always remain confused about how this has me branded as racist.
Marbles are intact. Let's start here:
http://www.pokerforum.ca/f86/beware-pokerforum-deadbeat-list-25785/index4.html
It seems that it's still up in the air, or up for debate as to wether or not people should be warned. I'd say, given that the 2+2 thread claims 20k and other people's reputations are becoming at risk, when we do have info on what alias he's going under now, he should either be booted or outed.
I'm really not sure if this has ever been decided, he seems to pull on the heart strings just enough to fly under the radar awhile. I don't think he's ever been labelled a scammer, more a troll.
He's not just a troll, he is a scammer.
Darb, are you in any way capable of understanding that not everyone agrees with your philosophies and may actually have their own belief systems that are different from yours? Some people don't want to adopt their "enemies" as you call them and bring them in closer to themselves? Some people, like Wetts, are ok with just kicking a guy out of their house if they don't want him there? They don't feel the need to ponder all moral and philosophical aspects or global human consequences of this action?
I really don't understand how the situation in the OP can be turned into such an incredible melodramatic firestorm where people are equating the results to executions and murder, etc. etc. etc. Or dragging it out into lengthy dissertations or the philosophical ramblings we're seeing here.
Some people are ok with the simple version. 'Guy stole, got outed, it made big news on the poker forums, people are talking about it, people don't want guy around anymore.'
I don't see how continually bringing the issue back to yourself or your previous history on here is anything other than self aggrandizing. It's incredibly arrogant to continually hammer away at people with your own philosophies because you believe every one in the discussion is wrong and you're right, but they're just too ignorant or stupid to understand your arguments.
Quick question. Are you debating all of these issues with the populations on P5 or 2+2? If not, why not? Those folks probably need to be saved from themselves too.
it is a very old realization especially for this forum...someone posts he scammed 20k, the only people that question the obvious is people that are likely to lose their money to such peoples or people that have no clue what is going on...
and there are many of them
But the difficulty and the reality and the part where we are insane if we don't deal with... is he has already been outed an booted many times for many years...
The question begins to become, have we not been assholes enough to him? Do we need to be abusive or more abusive? Do we let GTA and Mark stomp all over him? Do we throw tomatoes or rocks?
What can be done about it Jon, other than sit back while people less intelligent than you and less moral than you hand out pitch forks...and why is the solution that would make things worse (outcasting) favored and allowed by the masses?
We are simply justifying violence...
I see people will to pass and inflict judgement and punishment but not willing to consider the moral implications, like you point out.
I see you feel I should not stand up for what I believe in, and that I should not go against the crowd?
I see many people attacking me, with no message of their own, simply because they are part of the favored group.
You probably also don't understand why so many high stakes players tolerate MG. I do though, and this is why it is not going away, not here or on the other social forums. Not because of me, but because the intelligent players in this community rule it. It is complicated and multi layer, and that is the truth. Some which to sentence a man based on convenience. It is not the story. Guy can't help it, many degens support his habits and then turn on him in the end, and this forum helped facilitate his demise.
I actually of am the full belief that you can see how a small group of people conspired to convince the larger group I am antisemitic, are the same people that conspire against MG, and do whatever they can to make him fail.
But again that is not simple and convenient ....it is truth though.
I am putting my efforts where they are most vital.
And I think you will find as time goes by the spotlight shifts this way anyways...I suspect we have not yet broken the surface on this issue.
This is not a post with content. It is a direct attack. We require a very significant dialog about a very significant and relevant subject. We wish you to join in sincerely, without attacking people for the sake of attacking them.
Its cute...but its really telling of those that are trying to hold up lies and propaganda:
This whole thread is a train wreck and is more screwed up then the hell in a cell ending last night.;)
is Philli anti semetic too?
Enjoy the spotlight you're casting on yourself. It does get hot tho.
I thought the fact that I was trolling you would be pretty clear…maybe not quite as smart as you think you are?
I could ship pictures of asses for the next 20 posts, and still be providing more user-friendly content to this thread than you ever will.
And when exactly would you calling GTA and Mark vicious bullies and assholes not be considered a direct attack?
Now get the fuck off my lawn, kid, your whiny/play victim/sad bastard/ crocodile tears are flooding the joint.
1) I am not racist or antisemitic
2) I think nobody deserves to be humanized or outcast from society
3) Some people here believe in segregation
4) Those people were responsible for a false accusations and a campaign to have me ostracized.
These people have had a hand in MG's demise, and continue to attempt to control his fate.
Seems relevant and significant, and interesting that others would stand by and or participate....
Nope. Philli's a hell of a guy. He's entertained the forum for years...
You are an obnoxious, arrogant, nuisance...
And I think deep down you know that, or you wouldn't be trying so God damn painfully hard.
I am definitely attempting significant dialog, it is clear, and is weird to see you try to twist that...
My theory Kristy, is that these people will only allow you to hang out with them if you don't offer them any real opinion or content...but if you simply play the sarcasm/wit game and be the "girl that's just like the guys" then you will fit in.
I suspect that is why there are so few females on this forum, and almost none that contribute in a meaningful way...
and its not a sexist thing, I know you have an opinion, in fact you often seem to stick up for MG...but your real thoughts aren't so welcome are they?
So yes, attack me, and post gifs it will be easier for you amongst this crowd of men as long as you don't start posting your well thought out opinions.
attacking people is not the correct thing to do I think.
Two of your 4 points relate specifically to you. Enjoy the stage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_le5010dzU
No one is absolved because they don't participate and only "watch".
And the spotlight is likely to get bigger than me...