Isn't it another management fail though that with over a year delay they couldn't have both models of phone ready to go? Looks like another month for Q10. Q10 is going to be more expensive too.
Isn't it another management fail though that with over a year delay they couldn't have both models of phone ready to go? Looks like another month for Q10. Q10 is going to be more expensive too.
Well since BB has always said the Q10 would come 2-3 months after the Z10, I have no idea why you can claim that is a fail??
And where are you getting your pricing info? In the UK pricing for the Q10 has been claimed as being lower than the Z10. In Canada, nothing official but I am hearing about the same price... Curious, why are you so anti BB? Is it just trying to get my goat?
I honestly have been demo'ing mine to several iPhone and android users of various types, some of them family members and almost to a person they think it is really fluid, the Hub is cool and the predictive typing is amazing.
If by 'always' you mean that once they realized that they couldn't have both phones ready to market at the same time that they have 'always' said it would be later, then you are correct, they have 'always' not been able to do so.
I have nothing against BB other than the fact that despite delaying the release of their phones multiple times for OVER A YEAR IN DELAYS that they can't seem to get their shit together.
I agree with moose. It's not an issue of hating BB, but hating the management and their decisions. They knew they were falling behind. They knew they were losing market share. They knew they were releasing devices that were no longer "sexy". They took too long incorporating social media features that everyone was getting elsewhere.
BB10 is a huge step for them. Unfortunately, they took too long to incorporate QNX (very cool OS) and TAT's UI touches into a shipped product. Don't forget that they missed several quarters of launch dates last year. That's fact.
I've only seen the predictive typing demo'd in a video, but it does look cool.
The Z10 is a huge step up and unlike anything most BB users have seen before... unless they have actually used a friend's Android or iPhone...
I think it's funny that Thor hammered (pun not intended) Apple for having a stagnating OS without any innovating features. RIM did that forever. They shoehorned an outdated trackball/trackpad OS onto a buggy, crappy touch phone (Storm1/Storm2) and then failed to make any appreciable updates to their OS for a long time. They make their first modern, pretty, usable OS in years and go make fun of a market leader (doesn't matter if you're an Apple fan or not)? Whatever. EPIC FAIL.
lol, I am certainly not an iPhone or Apple hater but come on guys, did you both work for BB at one point? This phone is a winner, now BB may never get back the market share it once had, in fact likely not, but what do you know about current BB management that the rest of us do not?
I've only seen the predictive typing demo'd in a video, but it does look cool.
That, the swiping and peeking as well as the Hub are huge pluses, videos and demos just don't do them justice. I've been on mine for 5 weeks now, was never a fan of touch screen before but am now.
It's a discussion thread not the I love BB thread. You are irrationally positive on BB. Every negative comment you have to give a response. I just can't figure out why.
BTW the playbook seems to have mysteriously disappeared. You can't find it for sale anywhere. Staples doesn't even stock anything playbook related anymore.
Don't even get me started about the PlayBook. That has to be the worst decision RIM ever made. "Let's make a mid-range spec'd tablet, launch it with very few apps (not even a native email app because it wasn't ready in time) and charge a premium price for it. Don't worry, it isn't targeted to the consumer who is price-sensitive, it's for enterprise because they don't mind spending money on hardware with no apps on a platform not natively supported in any industry." Ummm, really?
HP put themselves into the same position with their WebOS-based TouchPad. It was a great piece of hardware (for the time) with a beautiful, well thought out UI. The only problem was the lack of developer support. No platform can thrive in the consumer market without apps. Consumers don't want to buy hardware without apps and developers don't want to develop apps for hardware without consumer support. Classic chicken and egg scenario.
BTW comp, I'm glad that you like your Z10 but it isn't the ground-breaking device you think it is. It's great compared to the BBs before it and definitely a step in the right direction for BB but the launch of the Z10 and Q10 show they haven't learned from their mistakes.
And for the record, I don't play favourites. I have a few Windows machines, I've had my Dad running different versions of Linux on old computers I've given him, a Dell laptop running OSX, an Android phone and I bought my Dad an iPad for Christmas.
I have obviously touched a nerve with a couple of people on here who clearly have an negative emotional tie in with BB so I will back out now and fall back into my moderator role...;) Make your own decisions but make them on your own factual needs, not emotional ones.
I actually have one and love it, ymmv, so use whatever fits your life/work style, be it Apple, Windows, Android or BB... Are there more...?
FACT: BB delayed the new release of the phones over a year and still couldn't get two models to market at the same time in all markets. That responsibility falls squarely on the management of the company, which is why Balsillie left and Lazaridis was forced out as CEO. They were replaced by Heins and he has done nothing to correct these problems.
Nope. I'm not emotion about this. Just stating the facts. It's hard to see a once great Canadian company go down the sewer solely based on very poor management decisions. They sat on their previous successes and were blind to the changes in the market.
They clung onto BIS (in the consumer market) and compressed because they thought carriers wanted to limit data usage.
WRONG. Carriers wanted to give users as much bandwidth as they were willing to pay for. Data compression also caused lags in data intensive apps.
They ignored touch screens and bigger screens because users because it compromised battery life. Anyway, touch screen phones like the iPhone and emerging Android would never, ever dent RIM's market share.
WRONG. Users want bigger touch displays so they could use their phone to surf, consume media and read emails/messages without having to squint or thumb a trackball/trackpad all day.
The delays with BB10 was the biggest shot in the foot for BB. They needed a product like the Z10 out early LAST year to stop the bleeding and the loss of users to other platforms. Most users hang onto their phones for a few years (especially in Canada with our excessively oppressive and long three year contracts) so missing another year without a desirable flagship product kicked them in the balls again.
comp, watch the quick, coordinated rollout of the Samsung S4 and you'll see how a new product launch should be handled.
SIDE NOTE: I recently read that HTC is having trouble making enough handsets because the suppliers no longer consider it to be a top tier manufacturer. Shrinking market share is a hurts. You can say what you want about Apple and Samsung, but they are manufacturing numbers that allow them to strong arm their suppliers and they rarely, if ever have to deal with the types of problems now experienced by HTC. Which is extremely unfortunate since they've designed a very sexy phone.
Before I bought my iPhone I was in the market for a BB. The model I wanted (Pearl 3G) was delayed more than once, so I went with an iPhone 3Gs.
Haven't looked back since.
From what I've heard, you should thank Blackberry for that delay...the Pearl was terribad.
I had a Bold (9700?) for years and loved it (my daughter uses it now), then a new Bold (9900) for just over a year and loved it (my wife has it now) and now I have the Z10. I thought I was going to wait for the Q10 for the keyboard but this touch screen is better than any I ever tried before...BB, Apple or Samsung.
But that's just anecdotal evidence, I don't have the phone smarts that most here have.
EDIT: As an aside my father bought a bunch of BBRY or whatever it is now last year and is happy like a Comp.
dumping my BBRY today, hopefully above $14. Decline in user base not a good sign.
I'll give you $14.01..
It's currently sitting at $14.80, why wouldn't you be able to? Expected to post a loss but instead posted a small profit, what's wrong with that? We knew this would take a while why jump now?
I guess it depends on your motives, I think you are more of a short term speculator than I am Jim and nothing wrong with that. If you have made money, good for you.. Go and look for other opportunities, I'm riding this one out for a while, I have more faith in current management than some here. That approx 3B in cash and investments allows them to ride out the short term fluctuations just fine, this is not a Nortel for heavens sakes..
One other point of interest, which I wouldn't have believed except it has been reported from numerous sources, 55% of those buying Z10's are coming from other platforms, and that to me is surprising. I had thought that most of the initial interest would come from those upgrading from existing BB devices.
The sheep are selling, I'm buying...
Actually I'm not really buying, already have enough at this point...^-^
I'm happy with my $2/share profit (happy to sell today at $15ish). Don't like the overall market right now and RIMM has a lot of issues still. Hope they do well long term. Once the user base starts to increase again, I might buy back in.
BB's war chest of cash is one of the few things the prior management did get right. It gives them the ability to weather the shit-storm they're trying to clear. Another company without those kinds of cash reserves would have been forced to sell their IP long ago.
Despite the risk of being called irrational again I will post this as I found it interesting. It is a poll (among many) that the online Wall St Journal does regularily. This one asks users what smartphone they plan to buy this year. Only 2K or so responses so far but it is overwhelming at this point. Now I know this is only a small sampling and is on a heavily weighted business website but to me it shows that there is some underlying strength for BB in the US, at least in the business community.. When the BB US advertising kicks in this is going to get interesting.
Again I am being a fanboy, but I really believe that BB10 will take off.. More evidence and hopeful news.. I have posted the entire article below since most wouldn't have logons at Seeking Alpha..
Again, before I get railed on, I am not claiming BB is going to take over as the number one smartphone title (by volume at least) but rather, they are going to make significant profits and be very successful again.
***** Entire article *****************
What happens when the number one information sensitive organization in the world -- the U.S. Army -- all of a sudden realizes that it has a security hole bigger than the holes in Swiss cheese?
What has to be done when the inspector general of the Defense Department says that the Army's Chief Information Office/G-6, has lost control over commercial mobile devices within the Army, and that more than 14,000 smartphones and tablets are untracked?
According to a recent report from the DOD IG:
"The Army did not implement an effective cyber-security program for commercial mobile devices (CMD's). If the devices remain unsecure, malicious activities could disrupt Army networks and compromise sensitive DOD information. The Army CIO did not implement an effective cyber-security program for CMDs. Specifically, the Army CIO did not appropriately track CMDs and was unaware of more than 14,000 CMDs used throughout the Army (excludes BlackBerry devices)."
One of the important areas of concern for the DOD IG is mobile device management. The DOD IG specifically wants the capability to remotely wipe data stored on CMD's that were transferred, lost, stolen or even damaged.
Well we all know that BB10 enterprise server has those capabilities built in. The BlackBerry (BBRY) Z10 can have two persona and information departments can update apps, lock information or wipe clean sensitive data from a mobile device when needed.
In fact with the BlackBerry platform, IT departments can push data to both the Z10 and the Playbook tablet, manage multiple operating systems, multiple platforms, mixed ownership devices and have total control over security and app management with full BYOD support for the end user.
As a result, the Army and Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA) wants to develop a mobile device management process to verify that users of CMDs are following Army and DOD information assurance policies. The platform must be able to manage, observe and manage applications running on CMD devices.
The Army issued a request for proposals, and a contract award is expected this month, with initial operating capability expected by October 2013. Eventually the system will be able to manage and enforce security for about 8 million devices.
I only know one company that is really up to such a task and that is BlackBerry. So I will make a prediction - I think BlackBerry will get this contract. And if it does, it will be an eye-opener for big multinational corporations that BlackBerry is the platform to have when it comes to security and device management. Furthermore, if BlackBerry does get this contract, I think that will also push other international IT defense departments to go in the same direction.
And one of the reasons why such a platform cannot encompass the iPhone is this. According to a new study from Sourcefire, that depicts vulnerabilities and or software flows, the Apple (AAPL) iPhone has the greatest number of vulnerabilities at 81%, followed by Google Android (GOOG), Windows (MSFT) and BlackBerry.
Well I have to say I was just as surprised as you, but I think it is only natural that one of the most popular phones in the world would attract the attention of all those who would want to find ways to exploit it.
Bottom line
Since BlackBerry has all of the security features that the DOD IG needs, I think BlackBerry will get the contract. If it does, it will be a big thumbs up for BlackBerry and will also be a big boost for the company. For one thing, it will set the security standard by which everyone will be judged from now on.
It will also mean that the BlackBerry platform is the way to go -- both for handsets and tablets -- for whoever is serious about security from now on.
Remember, BlackBerry does not need to become Apple in order for shareholders to make money. The company can do just fine being a niche player in the space with very high margins.
Also note that BlackBerry was the corporate smartphone icon until just a few years ago.
While Apple and the Google Android platform evolved and took the market by surprise (until recently that is), it will not take a lot for BlackBerry to become the corporate smartphone icon once again, if more companies take security more serious. And if BlackBerry gets this contract, many more companies will.
Quote from article:
“Of the few phones that were returned, the only main commonality we found is that buyers thought the Z10 had a keyboard,” he wrote.
“As it does not, they returned it and will buy the Q10 (keypad model) instead.”
Couldn't they tell by looking at the box or looking at the phone when it was getting activated? Wouldn't BB users know the Z10 doesn't have a physical keyboard?!?
On a side note, who is this donkey analyst? The Q10 doesn't have a "keypad". It's a physical keyboard. The Z10 does have a keyboard, but it's a virtual on-screen keyboard. Keypads are used to open garage doors. LOL
Has anyone heard the rumour about BB selling their BBM app to iPhone and Galaxy users? Will this mean we'll all be able to send each other free messages?
Has anyone heard the rumour about BB selling their BBM app to iPhone and Galaxy users? Will this mean we'll all be able to send each other free messages?
Think that was announced earlier this month, not sure on when though..
As for todays debacle it was kinda predicted as 1st quarter results only included a small percentage of Z10 sales, however BB did turn a small profit (guess US markets were expecting more?). At the advice of my advisor I sold about half of mine at $15.20 about 2 weeks ago. Called him at 11 this morning and bought same amount back again at $10.85.. This is a volatile holding and if you are in it too heavily or beyond your pain threshold then panic will set in..
I know of one fairly large investor (by my standards at least) who bought a lot today.. Remember for every panic seller there is an opportunistic buyer..;)
As I have said before this recovery is a long process..
Comments
And where are you getting your pricing info? In the UK pricing for the Q10 has been claimed as being lower than the Z10. In Canada, nothing official but I am hearing about the same price... Curious, why are you so anti BB? Is it just trying to get my goat?
I honestly have been demo'ing mine to several iPhone and android users of various types, some of them family members and almost to a person they think it is really fluid, the Hub is cool and the predictive typing is amazing.
I have nothing against BB other than the fact that despite delaying the release of their phones multiple times for OVER A YEAR IN DELAYS that they can't seem to get their shit together.
BB10 is a huge step for them. Unfortunately, they took too long to incorporate QNX (very cool OS) and TAT's UI touches into a shipped product. Don't forget that they missed several quarters of launch dates last year. That's fact.
I've only seen the predictive typing demo'd in a video, but it does look cool.
The Z10 is a huge step up and unlike anything most BB users have seen before... unless they have actually used a friend's Android or iPhone...
I think it's funny that Thor hammered (pun not intended) Apple for having a stagnating OS without any innovating features. RIM did that forever. They shoehorned an outdated trackball/trackpad OS onto a buggy, crappy touch phone (Storm1/Storm2) and then failed to make any appreciable updates to their OS for a long time. They make their first modern, pretty, usable OS in years and go make fun of a market leader (doesn't matter if you're an Apple fan or not)? Whatever. EPIC FAIL.
Your effusive, sugar coated praise lacks balance at best.
I am not praising but you obviously have an axe to grind, just can't figure out why.. At least I base my opinion off real world use.
BTW the playbook seems to have mysteriously disappeared. You can't find it for sale anywhere. Staples doesn't even stock anything playbook related anymore.
HP put themselves into the same position with their WebOS-based TouchPad. It was a great piece of hardware (for the time) with a beautiful, well thought out UI. The only problem was the lack of developer support. No platform can thrive in the consumer market without apps. Consumers don't want to buy hardware without apps and developers don't want to develop apps for hardware without consumer support. Classic chicken and egg scenario.
BTW comp, I'm glad that you like your Z10 but it isn't the ground-breaking device you think it is. It's great compared to the BBs before it and definitely a step in the right direction for BB but the launch of the Z10 and Q10 show they haven't learned from their mistakes.
And for the record, I don't play favourites. I have a few Windows machines, I've had my Dad running different versions of Linux on old computers I've given him, a Dell laptop running OSX, an Android phone and I bought my Dad an iPad for Christmas.
I actually have one and love it, ymmv, so use whatever fits your life/work style, be it Apple, Windows, Android or BB... Are there more...?
FACT: BB delayed the new release of the phones over a year and still couldn't get two models to market at the same time in all markets. That responsibility falls squarely on the management of the company, which is why Balsillie left and Lazaridis was forced out as CEO. They were replaced by Heins and he has done nothing to correct these problems.
They clung onto BIS (in the consumer market) and compressed because they thought carriers wanted to limit data usage.
WRONG. Carriers wanted to give users as much bandwidth as they were willing to pay for. Data compression also caused lags in data intensive apps.
They ignored touch screens and bigger screens because users because it compromised battery life. Anyway, touch screen phones like the iPhone and emerging Android would never, ever dent RIM's market share.
WRONG. Users want bigger touch displays so they could use their phone to surf, consume media and read emails/messages without having to squint or thumb a trackball/trackpad all day.
The delays with BB10 was the biggest shot in the foot for BB. They needed a product like the Z10 out early LAST year to stop the bleeding and the loss of users to other platforms. Most users hang onto their phones for a few years (especially in Canada with our excessively oppressive and long three year contracts) so missing another year without a desirable flagship product kicked them in the balls again.
comp, watch the quick, coordinated rollout of the Samsung S4 and you'll see how a new product launch should be handled.
SIDE NOTE: I recently read that HTC is having trouble making enough handsets because the suppliers no longer consider it to be a top tier manufacturer. Shrinking market share is a hurts. You can say what you want about Apple and Samsung, but they are manufacturing numbers that allow them to strong arm their suppliers and they rarely, if ever have to deal with the types of problems now experienced by HTC. Which is extremely unfortunate since they've designed a very sexy phone.
Haven't looked back since.
From what I've heard, you should thank Blackberry for that delay...the Pearl was terribad.
I had a Bold (9700?) for years and loved it (my daughter uses it now), then a new Bold (9900) for just over a year and loved it (my wife has it now) and now I have the Z10. I thought I was going to wait for the Q10 for the keyboard but this touch screen is better than any I ever tried before...BB, Apple or Samsung.
But that's just anecdotal evidence, I don't have the phone smarts that most here have.
EDIT: As an aside my father bought a bunch of BBRY or whatever it is now last year and is happy like a Comp.
I'll give you $14.01..
It's currently sitting at $14.80, why wouldn't you be able to? Expected to post a loss but instead posted a small profit, what's wrong with that? We knew this would take a while why jump now?
I guess it depends on your motives, I think you are more of a short term speculator than I am Jim and nothing wrong with that. If you have made money, good for you.. Go and look for other opportunities, I'm riding this one out for a while, I have more faith in current management than some here. That approx 3B in cash and investments allows them to ride out the short term fluctuations just fine, this is not a Nortel for heavens sakes..
One other point of interest, which I wouldn't have believed except it has been reported from numerous sources, 55% of those buying Z10's are coming from other platforms, and that to me is surprising. I had thought that most of the initial interest would come from those upgrading from existing BB devices.
The sheep are selling, I'm buying...
Actually I'm not really buying, already have enough at this point...^-^
WSJ: Which smartphone do you plan to buy this year?
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Again, before I get railed on, I am not claiming BB is going to take over as the number one smartphone title (by volume at least) but rather, they are going to make significant profits and be very successful again.
BlackBerry: The Killer Punch Will Be Security - Seeking Alpha
***** Entire article *****************
What happens when the number one information sensitive organization in the world -- the U.S. Army -- all of a sudden realizes that it has a security hole bigger than the holes in Swiss cheese?
What has to be done when the inspector general of the Defense Department says that the Army's Chief Information Office/G-6, has lost control over commercial mobile devices within the Army, and that more than 14,000 smartphones and tablets are untracked?
According to a recent report from the DOD IG:
"The Army did not implement an effective cyber-security program for commercial mobile devices (CMD's). If the devices remain unsecure, malicious activities could disrupt Army networks and compromise sensitive DOD information. The Army CIO did not implement an effective cyber-security program for CMDs. Specifically, the Army CIO did not appropriately track CMDs and was unaware of more than 14,000 CMDs used throughout the Army (excludes BlackBerry devices)."
One of the important areas of concern for the DOD IG is mobile device management. The DOD IG specifically wants the capability to remotely wipe data stored on CMD's that were transferred, lost, stolen or even damaged.
Well we all know that BB10 enterprise server has those capabilities built in. The BlackBerry (BBRY) Z10 can have two persona and information departments can update apps, lock information or wipe clean sensitive data from a mobile device when needed.
In fact with the BlackBerry platform, IT departments can push data to both the Z10 and the Playbook tablet, manage multiple operating systems, multiple platforms, mixed ownership devices and have total control over security and app management with full BYOD support for the end user.
As a result, the Army and Defense Information Systems Agency (DISA) wants to develop a mobile device management process to verify that users of CMDs are following Army and DOD information assurance policies. The platform must be able to manage, observe and manage applications running on CMD devices.
The Army issued a request for proposals, and a contract award is expected this month, with initial operating capability expected by October 2013. Eventually the system will be able to manage and enforce security for about 8 million devices.
I only know one company that is really up to such a task and that is BlackBerry. So I will make a prediction - I think BlackBerry will get this contract. And if it does, it will be an eye-opener for big multinational corporations that BlackBerry is the platform to have when it comes to security and device management. Furthermore, if BlackBerry does get this contract, I think that will also push other international IT defense departments to go in the same direction.
And one of the reasons why such a platform cannot encompass the iPhone is this. According to a new study from Sourcefire, that depicts vulnerabilities and or software flows, the Apple (AAPL) iPhone has the greatest number of vulnerabilities at 81%, followed by Google Android (GOOG), Windows (MSFT) and BlackBerry.
Well I have to say I was just as surprised as you, but I think it is only natural that one of the most popular phones in the world would attract the attention of all those who would want to find ways to exploit it.
Bottom line
Since BlackBerry has all of the security features that the DOD IG needs, I think BlackBerry will get the contract. If it does, it will be a big thumbs up for BlackBerry and will also be a big boost for the company. For one thing, it will set the security standard by which everyone will be judged from now on.
It will also mean that the BlackBerry platform is the way to go -- both for handsets and tablets -- for whoever is serious about security from now on.
Remember, BlackBerry does not need to become Apple in order for shareholders to make money. The company can do just fine being a niche player in the space with very high margins.
Also note that BlackBerry was the corporate smartphone icon until just a few years ago.
While Apple and the Google Android platform evolved and took the market by surprise (until recently that is), it will not take a lot for BlackBerry to become the corporate smartphone icon once again, if more companies take security more serious. And if BlackBerry gets this contract, many more companies will.
Seriously, have they never heard of google? 26 letters to choose from and they pick Q?
http://www.nivea.com.au/products/face-care/q10%20plus
lol, is that most negative thing you can find? Actually she looks pretty good, I wouldn't mind her handling my device...;)
BlackBerry disputes 'misleading' report of smartphone returns - Business - CBC News
BlackBerry 10 returns aren’t too high: Analyst | Toronto Star
Quote from article:
“Of the few phones that were returned, the only main commonality we found is that buyers thought the Z10 had a keyboard,” he wrote.
“As it does not, they returned it and will buy the Q10 (keypad model) instead.”
Couldn't they tell by looking at the box or looking at the phone when it was getting activated? Wouldn't BB users know the Z10 doesn't have a physical keyboard?!?
On a side note, who is this donkey analyst? The Q10 doesn't have a "keypad". It's a physical keyboard. The Z10 does have a keyboard, but it's a virtual on-screen keyboard. Keypads are used to open garage doors. LOL
That's gotta sting.
Has anyone heard the rumour about BB selling their BBM app to iPhone and Galaxy users? Will this mean we'll all be able to send each other free messages?
Think that was announced earlier this month, not sure on when though..
As for todays debacle it was kinda predicted as 1st quarter results only included a small percentage of Z10 sales, however BB did turn a small profit (guess US markets were expecting more?). At the advice of my advisor I sold about half of mine at $15.20 about 2 weeks ago. Called him at 11 this morning and bought same amount back again at $10.85.. This is a volatile holding and if you are in it too heavily or beyond your pain threshold then panic will set in..
I know of one fairly large investor (by my standards at least) who bought a lot today.. Remember for every panic seller there is an opportunistic buyer..;)
As I have said before this recovery is a long process..