Questioning intelligence here is not aimed at the forums but an important part of the discussion. Canada is imposing laws that have, in other countries, been shown to increase crime.
possible, but debatable .....wrong thread
Our politicians are BRILLIANT FRICKIN MINDS . NOT!
"Not only are MMS costly, they actually function to increase the amount of crime on the streets – especially in the case of drugs. Drug dealers are motivated by the amount of money (profit) they can make from selling drugs."
now this isn't proof, but you don't need it im sure. the liberal government attacked the conservative in the Hoc with study after study from other countries showing this increase. The conservatives would not acknowledge this with a comment and Harper would simple stand up and say 'we want criminals in jail' and everyone would cheer.....i watched this on cpac but never saw the studies. its widely known though.....
Drug dealers are motivated by the amount of money (profit) they can make from selling drugs."
And THIS is why penalties for dealing need to be much stiffer. It is not a crime of passion where there are mitigating factors but rather one of greed.
This is not a rail against MJ smokers, The issue I have are with those who traffic in the much harder drugs....
And THIS is why penalties for dealing need to be much stiffer. It is not a crime of passion where there are mitigating factors but rather one of greed.
No, this is why drugs need to be legalized. It is the users who fuel the market. Give them a legal avenue for their desire, and watch the corner pot dealer go out of business.
The type of drug is not relevant. You are an adult. If you wish to ingest pot, scotch, or heroin, that is your call.
Remove the illicit trade, bring it above ground so to speak, and regulate it like tobacco or booze. Be more restrictive with the harder drugs if you like. But having the trade out in the open, and legal, takes a lot of the surrounding criminality away. It also reduces the cost of dealing with the effects of usage, as we the taxpayers are only paying for the results of over, or improper, usage, much the way we currently do for alcohol.
And THIS is why penalties for dealing need to be much stiffer. It is not a crime of passion where there are mitigating factors but rather one of greed.
.
prices are created from the penalties. the stiffer the penalties the higher the price...even to the point where if there were no penalties, the mark up would be next to nothing. And what a lot of smokers who don't care about s10 don't realize is the price of weed is going to skyrocket.
This is not a rail against MJ smokers, The issue I have are with those who traffic in the much harder drugs....
yes and we should as whole be able to seperate mj from the other drugs...legally....but we have to include growers, mj dealers, and smokers in the same category. smoking can't be legal but growing is not.
So, hypothetically speaking, if I walk up to you and proceed to beat you to death, it is not my fault?
lets reverse this....knowing that you are not that type of person, what did you do to become rational....before you were a rational person....what steps did you take....
^^^^if you don't understand this point i will re explain....
that is quite possibly the most idiotic thing I have ever read on the internet.
Well, today anyway . . .
The murdered is not unaccountable for his own murder,
And the robbed is not blameless in being robbed.
The righteous is not innocent of the deeds of the wicked,
And the white-handed is not clean in the doings of the felon.
Yea, the guilty is oftentimes the victim of the injured,
And still more often the condemned is the burden-bearer for the guiltless and unblamed.
You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked;
kahlil gibran
i do not just quote or follow this mans writings however i think this shows there are intelligent and revered people that share my thought
No, this is why drugs need to be legalized. It is the users who fuel the market. Give them a legal avenue for their desire, and watch the corner pot dealer go out of business.
The type of drug is not relevant.
I agree and believe that's obvious, but we (the people) can reach an agreement on mj first. The powers that be know that mj will just be the first and all other drugs will be legalized shortly after...this is why i think they are targeting weed so unjustly.
Later when drugs are legal, we will wonder how we ever let an entity we created tell us we can't choose to do a drug. It will be compared to believing the world was flat. Then we will question government itself.
Given the right circumstances, I would do EXACTLY what I described . . .
do we need a thread for who can kill a person with their bare hands in the most ways
but back to the question this refers to....yes when i am approached with violence i never hate the person, i feel compassion for them. but i may have to stop or hurt them, but if they had my brain, my capacity, my upbringings my experience, they likely wouldn't act that way....how is that their fault
im not immune to it either. but if lived in the dali lamas shoes i prob wouldn't be violent either.
If all/most people were of reasonable intelligence then I would not mind legalizing all drugs of any type, trouble is they're not...
your argument is for regulation then, which is legalization...and again lack of reasonable intelligence suggest its not their faults....as we are not born with intelligence (arguable perhaps) but are taught it.....who teaches? parents and schools teachers....but the parents were taught by the schools ...the schools teach the government chosen curriculum....the government creates stupid people and the laws that put them in jail.....
the solution i think lies in teaching intelligence and certainly not different or more laws and more jail time. more jail and more laws, is cruel. its not their fault.
lol, government is the fault? You think it's some conspiracy to create a population that is lacking in intelligence so that authorities can jail them...? You cannot teach intelligence, only knowledge..
Wow... I'm really starting to think this is some well planned level..
Gotta ask, have you ever considered running for office? Can I ask what you do for a living and what sort of education you have? Please don't answer if I am out of line here but I am really trying to understand your point of view and where you are coming from.
And Milo, are you really in favour of legalizing all drugs? Both natural and artificial? While I'm sure it would not change my or your usage, I think there would soon be a massive slide into drug induced coma for a large percentage of the general populous... Especially with prices of said drugs being so low. You can't possibly be in favour of that can you? I cannot imagine the social cost to that.. Scary..
1. Legalization of Marijuana is absolutely essential for Canada. Being from BC, It is our number one GDP for us. Mutli-Billion dollar industry that is 99% funding gangs. Thats just flat out wrong.
- Legalizing Marijuana would immediatly strip their power. Growers will need to be liscensed and regulated the same as our farmers. The reason for this is not to control, but to keep up with health standards/proper farming so none of that shit gets laced or grown in moldy basements. Health authorities would make routine checks, and have proper government regulations for growing habits.
- I believe that buying joints should be as easy as buying booze/cigarettes. Go to a store, show ID, get it. No reason to go to crazy standards when it's allready extreamly easy to buy it.
- People should be able to grow their own supply to a certain degree, like 5 plants or less. Seeds should be as accessible as flower seeds.
I think all this would increase supply and decrease demand. Gangs feed off our funding whenever we purchase drugs. By having these gov't regulations and standards, Large scale growers will be equal to tobacco farmers. This will decrease gang violence, funding, and recruitment. Exploitation of young teenagers into gangs, or using them to push drugs into schools will become minute.
Tax it to shit above all else. 100% tax imo. Our gov't will finally come out of debt, pay of the five ring circus and maybe we can stop cutting our damn health and education sector!
As for capital punishment, I really have no experience here.
All I know is if there's any chance a criminal can be rehabillitated, it needs to be done. A reformed criminal is an addition to society not a hinderence.
Every criminal is unique, every case different. Some need to be locked away, others need to be helped.
While in principal I agree with your ideas, we need to decide what to do with the rest of the drug subculture, ie the use of heroin and the myriad of pharmaceutically produced drugs.
lol, government is the fault? You think it's some conspiracy to create a population that is lacking in intelligence so that authorities can jail them...?
not maybe a conspiracy but something that happened along the way...or to be more accurate, a system created by lack of intelligence.
Gotta ask, have you ever considered running for office? Can I ask what you do for a living and what sort of education you have? Please don't answer if I am out of line here but I am really trying to understand your point of view and where you are coming from.
you are not out of line, but perhaps theres a blunter question you want to ask?
have i considered it, yes but i never would, it doesn't do any good to try to change a faulty system using the same faulty system. nor do i want the fame. my education is, 2 years post secondary bachelor of English/computer programming (hardware, management etc.), but school is to slow and stagnant and i believe very soon that those that attend university will fall behind to those that drop out (not all of course) but were talking the marc zuckerburg, bill gates etc.
for a living i'm a miner at the moment
[QUOTE=compuease;249357
And Milo, are you really in favour of legalizing all drugs? Both natural and artificial? While I'm sure it would not chance my or your usage, I think there would soon be a massive slide into drug induced coma for a large percentage of the general populous... Especially with prices of said drugs being so low. You can't possibly be in favour of that can you? I cannot imagine the social cost to that.. Scary..[/QUOTE]
and comp i really want you to understand the backwards logic i and some others are pointing out. making these drugs legal brings the usage trends down. Countries around the world have already shown this. there is no argument here....those are the stats...the argument at hand is why is the government making the laws harsher.....?
I realize you didn't know that, and may not believe me, but how crazy are you and other to ignore that if its true...
we are passing laws that will increase crime and drug use.
And Milo, are you really in favour of legalizing all drugs? Both natural and artificial? While I'm sure it would not chance my or your usage, I think there would soon be a massive slide into drug induced coma for a large percentage of the general populous... Especially with prices of said drugs being so low. You can't possibly be in favour of that can you? I cannot imagine the social cost to that.. Scary..
Compuease, have you seen a junkie before? someone who uses methadone, heroine, crack, etc.? 99% of them either have:
A) a mental illness a horrible upbringing involving prostitution, abandonment, abuse, sociopathic parents, or were exploited at a young age.
They are not the average Joe who gets home from work and sticks a needle in their arm.
By legalizing ALL drugs, we can control it to a certain degree.
By having all drugs under gov't issue, one can put junkies onto reduction programs.
Having a safe injection site which allows registered users to purchase them, we can track and recude their intake, and hopefully get them clean...
Of course this is idealistic. There will be street value for any of these once its controlled, but It's the best option I can think of. In reality, we have legal controlled drugs that have street value such as morphene, valium, and codene.
THe thing is compuease, right now all of these hard drugs are very accessible and very cheap. It's extremely easy for any junkie to pick up some heroine and shoot up till he dies.
I highly doubt you'll see an increase in drug use.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're picturing a society that have booths and boutiques selling heroine with signs that say "25% off!" with line-ups around the corner. In reality, all of these products will be made by professional companies and only available through controlled means, just like our pharmaceuticals.
The best thing keeping our population from hard drugs is proper education and awareness. Preventitive programs in our schools decreases the chance of our kids becoming addicted to chemical substances.
Help me here... Can you tell me the countries that have legalized hard drugs and lowered the usage? I'm not talking mj here...
And what system of government do you propose in place of current. Note that I am not a big proponent of the way we currently do it, however I am in favour of a democratic society...
All I know is if there's any chance a criminal can be rehabilitated, it needs to be done.
this shows that when we can't rehabilitate them its likely to a degree our own inability to rehabilitate.....not the criminals fault. i'd argue its 100% our fault as they have proven themselves incapable.
The best thing keeping our population from hard drugs is proper education and awareness. Preventitive programs in our schools decreases the chance of our kids becoming addicted to chemical substances.
Now for this statement you get my vote. However that only helps for the educated populous. I would hazzard a guess that a large % of the heavy use druggies would never have been in that education program in any case. I think it's more a product of the home environment not the education system, however I think both have their merits. Maybe we should start punishing the parents of criminals? Or the parents of those who use drugs...? I'm saying that only half in jest...
While in principal I agree with your ideas, we need to decide what to do with the rest of the drug subculture, ie the use of heroin and the myriad of government funded pharmaceutically produced drugs.
but we can't stop legalizing mj because we can't solve the rest.....
i would like to suggest that grouping mj with the other drugs causes people to gateway to the others...
so many of my peers after realizing that all their parents smoke mj and its doesn't actually make you kill people and go crazy, tried meth...and lost their well being because they weren't properly warned.
this is an example of how grouping mj in with the other drugs makes usage worse.
and of course the side effects of the pills are real and incredible yet completely legal and recommended.
this shows that when we can't rehabilitate them its likely to a degree our own inability to rehabilitate.....not the criminals fault. i'd argue its 100% our fault as they have proven themselves incapable.
Are you at all in agreement that there is a component of personal responsibility in any of this? Or is it always "our" fault, whomever "our" is?
Help me here... Can you tell me the countries that have legalized hard drugs and lowered the usage? I'm not talking mj here...
k we will all try not to fault each other for words, but instead ideas we meant to convey. hard drugs may not be legal anywhere (not sure), but in places such as Amsterdam where laws are softer and weed is basically legal, you do not so an increase but more of a general decrease or at lest a flat lining of the trend. maybe someone else can find and exact reference, pretty sure theres some in the movie i posted....
And what system of government do you propose in place of current. Note that I am not a big proponent of the way we currently do it, however I am in favour of a democratic society...
people are always so quick to jump to this which is a very hard question to answer. but i always like to focus on whats obvious, our system doesn't work and cannot work. the more we define that truth the closer we will get to the solution.
i think you are in favour of the idea of what democracy should bring. a democratic society is 1/13 million of a vote versus millions of idiots swayed by money, media, and power.
To increase popular votes from the public. We generally love to see our government "fighting crime and getting drugs off of our streets!"
I can really see no other reason for such a proposition at this time.
i can give you many more.....
to give the american dea and military further reason and ability to be in canada....
to appease the states....
to give more power and territory to the larger gangs...
to fuel the private jail economy....
to make way for prescription drug sales and use...
to put a tighter hold on our financial situations, especially in bc
Maybe we should start punishing the parents of criminals? Or the parents of those who use drugs...? I'm saying that only half in jest...
does not have to be in jest, its a valid suggestion, but of leads to the parents not getting the correct parenting and schooling. how can non intelligence bread intellegence.....who is intelligent and can teach our children and our parents to teach and learn? certainly not the government that we created....
Comments
Our politicians are BRILLIANT FRICKIN MINDS . NOT!
couple of examples please...
oh wow... That is not really your belief is it?
Cannabis Digest | Mandatory Minimums the Same Under any Name
"Not only are MMS costly, they actually function to increase the amount of crime on the streets – especially in the case of drugs. Drug dealers are motivated by the amount of money (profit) they can make from selling drugs."
now this isn't proof, but you don't need it im sure. the liberal government attacked the conservative in the Hoc with study after study from other countries showing this increase. The conservatives would not acknowledge this with a comment and Harper would simple stand up and say 'we want criminals in jail' and everyone would cheer.....i watched this on cpac but never saw the studies. its widely known though.....
if we follow the lines of the discussion we will see its not a belief
further more faulting them makes large scale rehabilitation impossible.
This is not a rail against MJ smokers, The issue I have are with those who traffic in the much harder drugs....
So, hypothetically speaking, if I walk up to you and proceed to beat you to death, it is not my fault?
REALLY?!? Good Lord, that is quite possibly the most idiotic thing I have ever read on the internet.
Well, today anyway . . .
No, this is why drugs need to be legalized. It is the users who fuel the market. Give them a legal avenue for their desire, and watch the corner pot dealer go out of business.
The type of drug is not relevant. You are an adult. If you wish to ingest pot, scotch, or heroin, that is your call.
Remove the illicit trade, bring it above ground so to speak, and regulate it like tobacco or booze. Be more restrictive with the harder drugs if you like. But having the trade out in the open, and legal, takes a lot of the surrounding criminality away. It also reduces the cost of dealing with the effects of usage, as we the taxpayers are only paying for the results of over, or improper, usage, much the way we currently do for alcohol.
prices are created from the penalties. the stiffer the penalties the higher the price...even to the point where if there were no penalties, the mark up would be next to nothing. And what a lot of smokers who don't care about s10 don't realize is the price of weed is going to skyrocket.
yes and we should as whole be able to seperate mj from the other drugs...legally....but we have to include growers, mj dealers, and smokers in the same category. smoking can't be legal but growing is not.
lets reverse this....knowing that you are not that type of person, what did you do to become rational....before you were a rational person....what steps did you take....
^^^^if you don't understand this point i will re explain....
now we are getting somewhere
He don't know me vewwy well . . .
Given the right circumstances, I would do EXACTLY what I described . . .
The murdered is not unaccountable for his own murder,
And the robbed is not blameless in being robbed.
The righteous is not innocent of the deeds of the wicked,
And the white-handed is not clean in the doings of the felon.
Yea, the guilty is oftentimes the victim of the injured,
And still more often the condemned is the burden-bearer for the guiltless and unblamed.
You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked;
kahlil gibran
i do not just quote or follow this mans writings however i think this shows there are intelligent and revered people that share my thought
I agree and believe that's obvious, but we (the people) can reach an agreement on mj first. The powers that be know that mj will just be the first and all other drugs will be legalized shortly after...this is why i think they are targeting weed so unjustly.
Later when drugs are legal, we will wonder how we ever let an entity we created tell us we can't choose to do a drug. It will be compared to believing the world was flat. Then we will question government itself.
do we need a thread for who can kill a person with their bare hands in the most ways
but back to the question this refers to....yes when i am approached with violence i never hate the person, i feel compassion for them. but i may have to stop or hurt them, but if they had my brain, my capacity, my upbringings my experience, they likely wouldn't act that way....how is that their fault
im not immune to it either. but if lived in the dali lamas shoes i prob wouldn't be violent either.
your argument is for regulation then, which is legalization...and again lack of reasonable intelligence suggest its not their faults....as we are not born with intelligence (arguable perhaps) but are taught it.....who teaches? parents and schools teachers....but the parents were taught by the schools ...the schools teach the government chosen curriculum....the government creates stupid people and the laws that put them in jail.....
the solution i think lies in teaching intelligence and certainly not different or more laws and more jail time. more jail and more laws, is cruel. its not their fault.
Wow... I'm really starting to think this is some well planned level..
Gotta ask, have you ever considered running for office? Can I ask what you do for a living and what sort of education you have? Please don't answer if I am out of line here but I am really trying to understand your point of view and where you are coming from.
And Milo, are you really in favour of legalizing all drugs? Both natural and artificial? While I'm sure it would not change my or your usage, I think there would soon be a massive slide into drug induced coma for a large percentage of the general populous... Especially with prices of said drugs being so low. You can't possibly be in favour of that can you? I cannot imagine the social cost to that.. Scary..
Here's my 2c!
1. Legalization of Marijuana is absolutely essential for Canada. Being from BC, It is our number one GDP for us. Mutli-Billion dollar industry that is 99% funding gangs. Thats just flat out wrong.
- Legalizing Marijuana would immediatly strip their power. Growers will need to be liscensed and regulated the same as our farmers. The reason for this is not to control, but to keep up with health standards/proper farming so none of that shit gets laced or grown in moldy basements. Health authorities would make routine checks, and have proper government regulations for growing habits.
- I believe that buying joints should be as easy as buying booze/cigarettes. Go to a store, show ID, get it. No reason to go to crazy standards when it's allready extreamly easy to buy it.
- People should be able to grow their own supply to a certain degree, like 5 plants or less. Seeds should be as accessible as flower seeds.
I think all this would increase supply and decrease demand. Gangs feed off our funding whenever we purchase drugs. By having these gov't regulations and standards, Large scale growers will be equal to tobacco farmers. This will decrease gang violence, funding, and recruitment. Exploitation of young teenagers into gangs, or using them to push drugs into schools will become minute.
Tax it to shit above all else. 100% tax imo. Our gov't will finally come out of debt, pay of the five ring circus and maybe we can stop cutting our damn health and education sector!
As for capital punishment, I really have no experience here.
All I know is if there's any chance a criminal can be rehabillitated, it needs to be done. A reformed criminal is an addition to society not a hinderence.
Every criminal is unique, every case different. Some need to be locked away, others need to be helped.
While in principal I agree with your ideas, we need to decide what to do with the rest of the drug subculture, ie the use of heroin and the myriad of pharmaceutically produced drugs.
not maybe a conspiracy but something that happened along the way...or to be more accurate, a system created by lack of intelligence.
you are not out of line, but perhaps theres a blunter question you want to ask?
have i considered it, yes but i never would, it doesn't do any good to try to change a faulty system using the same faulty system. nor do i want the fame. my education is, 2 years post secondary bachelor of English/computer programming (hardware, management etc.), but school is to slow and stagnant and i believe very soon that those that attend university will fall behind to those that drop out (not all of course) but were talking the marc zuckerburg, bill gates etc.
for a living i'm a miner at the moment
[QUOTE=compuease;249357
And Milo, are you really in favour of legalizing all drugs? Both natural and artificial? While I'm sure it would not chance my or your usage, I think there would soon be a massive slide into drug induced coma for a large percentage of the general populous... Especially with prices of said drugs being so low. You can't possibly be in favour of that can you? I cannot imagine the social cost to that.. Scary..[/QUOTE]
and comp i really want you to understand the backwards logic i and some others are pointing out. making these drugs legal brings the usage trends down. Countries around the world have already shown this. there is no argument here....those are the stats...the argument at hand is why is the government making the laws harsher.....?
I realize you didn't know that, and may not believe me, but how crazy are you and other to ignore that if its true...
we are passing laws that will increase crime and drug use.
Compuease, have you seen a junkie before? someone who uses methadone, heroine, crack, etc.? 99% of them either have:
A) a mental illness
They are not the average Joe who gets home from work and sticks a needle in their arm.
By legalizing ALL drugs, we can control it to a certain degree.
By having all drugs under gov't issue, one can put junkies onto reduction programs.
Having a safe injection site which allows registered users to purchase them, we can track and recude their intake, and hopefully get them clean...
Of course this is idealistic. There will be street value for any of these once its controlled, but It's the best option I can think of. In reality, we have legal controlled drugs that have street value such as morphene, valium, and codene.
THe thing is compuease, right now all of these hard drugs are very accessible and very cheap. It's extremely easy for any junkie to pick up some heroine and shoot up till he dies.
I highly doubt you'll see an increase in drug use.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're picturing a society that have booths and boutiques selling heroine with signs that say "25% off!" with line-ups around the corner. In reality, all of these products will be made by professional companies and only available through controlled means, just like our pharmaceuticals.
The best thing keeping our population from hard drugs is proper education and awareness. Preventitive programs in our schools decreases the chance of our kids becoming addicted to chemical substances.
And what system of government do you propose in place of current. Note that I am not a big proponent of the way we currently do it, however I am in favour of a democratic society...
To increase popular votes from the public. We generally love to see our government "fighting crime and getting drugs off of our streets!"
I can really see no other reason for such a proposition at this time.
this shows that when we can't rehabilitate them its likely to a degree our own inability to rehabilitate.....not the criminals fault. i'd argue its 100% our fault as they have proven themselves incapable.
a great point.
Now for this statement you get my vote. However that only helps for the educated populous. I would hazzard a guess that a large % of the heavy use druggies would never have been in that education program in any case. I think it's more a product of the home environment not the education system, however I think both have their merits. Maybe we should start punishing the parents of criminals? Or the parents of those who use drugs...? I'm saying that only half in jest...
but we can't stop legalizing mj because we can't solve the rest.....
i would like to suggest that grouping mj with the other drugs causes people to gateway to the others...
so many of my peers after realizing that all their parents smoke mj and its doesn't actually make you kill people and go crazy, tried meth...and lost their well being because they weren't properly warned.
this is an example of how grouping mj in with the other drugs makes usage worse.
and of course the side effects of the pills are real and incredible yet completely legal and recommended.
Are you at all in agreement that there is a component of personal responsibility in any of this? Or is it always "our" fault, whomever "our" is?
k we will all try not to fault each other for words, but instead ideas we meant to convey. hard drugs may not be legal anywhere (not sure), but in places such as Amsterdam where laws are softer and weed is basically legal, you do not so an increase but more of a general decrease or at lest a flat lining of the trend. maybe someone else can find and exact reference, pretty sure theres some in the movie i posted....
people are always so quick to jump to this which is a very hard question to answer. but i always like to focus on whats obvious, our system doesn't work and cannot work. the more we define that truth the closer we will get to the solution.
i think you are in favour of the idea of what democracy should bring. a democratic society is 1/13 million of a vote versus millions of idiots swayed by money, media, and power.
i can give you many more.....
to give the american dea and military further reason and ability to be in canada....
to appease the states....
to give more power and territory to the larger gangs...
to fuel the private jail economy....
to make way for prescription drug sales and use...
to put a tighter hold on our financial situations, especially in bc
it goes on...
does not have to be in jest, its a valid suggestion, but of leads to the parents not getting the correct parenting and schooling. how can non intelligence bread intellegence.....who is intelligent and can teach our children and our parents to teach and learn? certainly not the government that we created....