Legalize Marijuana and and tax the shit out of it. If you get caught selling it and don't have a licence to do so. Off to Collins BAY for 10 years.
i understand the thoughts however why should the punishment for selling something legal without a license be more than selling lemonade without a license. either way pro leaf people generally would accept taxes on weed. The problem is if the government sells it and taxes it, then it has to be legal to grow ourselves.
which reminds of a thought......under the new laws will the government still give out medicinal grow licenses....surely it cannot? <<<< i really think this is something that may hold back the law...
i understand the thoughts however why should the punishment for selling something legal without a license be more than selling lemonade without a license. either way pro leaf people generally would accept taxes on weed. The problem is if the government sells it and taxes it, then it has to be legal to grow ourselves.
which reminds of a thought......under the new laws will the government still give out medicinal grow licenses....surely it cannot? <<<< i really think this is something that may hold back the law...
Legalize it to smoke. Not to grow.
There is a big difference between little Mary selling lemonade on the street corner and the burn out selling dime bags.
You license x amount of growers. legalize the distribution and sale through
these growers. Only to licensed smoke shops but you make it illegal to grow even for personal use.
Now you have eliminated the Medical smoke. They can buy it from a smoke shop.
Brent I only treat people as second-class when they act that way.
I posted proof, scientific, evidential facts that not only does the death penalty not serve to deter crime, it actually results in the rapists / murderers / etc getting out of jail SOONER than our current system. Violent crimes have been decreasing throughout my entire lifetime.
As for working with the criminal element... you do remember what I do right? Rapists? Yup, Murderers, less so, but had a few attempted murderers. I don't need to qualify myself in this regard, I provided statistics! You could have a monkey displaying it, it doesn't change the validity.
Though this has reminded me of a fantastic quote from the Big Bang Theory this week - "That's what I love about science, there's no one right answer" (blank stares / awkward silence follows).
If Hveepoker is Ron, I don't owe him an apology, in this regard if he took a few simple moments to look up the efficacy of his "3 strike" idea, he'd see that in California, where this is in effect, it has resulted in a ridiculous situation of people serving years and years for simple possession offenses. Here, it sums it up in the first few pages... http://www.prisonpolicy.org/scans/sp/3strikes.pdf The crime rate dropped in California!!! About the same as it did nation-wide.... oops. And I don't think that it's a matter of being grumpy on Hvee's part either, he has a history of incredibly ignorant postings.
Am I pro drug? Fuck no, hate em. I'm just anti-stupidity.
Mark
Ignorant Postings? People are serving long stretches in Prison via the 3 strike law Because they Broke the Law. AND BECAUSE THEY DON'T FUCKING LISTEN! Possession is against the law.
And then say Violent crime is Down . Are you fucking stoned Mark or what.
Simple crimes are down, B & E , Assault , Theft and Murder are all up.
More Home Invasions and Gang bangers shooting people.
It has to be controlled somehow. And you have to restrict the age to 21 and over.
i can put myself in your perspective a little but i couldn't answer that the way you did....
2 questions come up:
why could we brew our own beer at home but not grow a plant for personal...I think we would need to outlaw beer brewing and wine making all the same...
and why did you pick 21 lol....thats the american drinking age, certainly we should set the age to vote in par with the age to smoke mj? 21 to vote i would say then...and adult is an adult no?
Ignorant Postings? People are serving long stretches in Prison via the 3 strike law Because they Broke the Law. AND BECAUSE THEY DON'T FUCKING LISTEN! Possession is against the law.
And then say Violent crime is Down . Are you fucking stoned Mark or what.
Simple crimes are down, B & E , Assault , Theft and Murder are all up.
More Home Invasions and Gang bangers shooting people.
Hang on...
So you're saying that the place that has instituted your suggestion has an increase in the more dangerous, violent crimes, while people doing the "Simple" crimes are now in jail longer?
The point of the judicial system isn't (and shouldn't) be to just punish wrong-doers. It is SUPPOSED to foster rehabilitation.
But, back to what you just said, I don't understand your angle of claiming that violent crimes are up, while trying to say this is a good approach.
Oh yea... and
SHOW THE EVIDENCE - it isn't true because you "said so"
The point of the judicial system isn't (and shouldn't) be to just punish wrong-doers. It is SUPPOSED to foster rehabilitation.
Mark
This is were you are DEAD WRONG and why your thinking is so far in left field it hardly deserves a response. Rehablitatiion is a by-product of the punishment that is being served for the crimes committed and is always the choice of the inmate. And don't try to tell me they can add time to a sentence because I choose not to go to drug classes or anger management. Cause it just an't so!
This is were you are DEAD WRONG and why your thinking is so far in left field it hardly deserves a response. Rehablitatiion is a by-product of the punishment that is being served for the crimes committed and is always the choice of the inmate. And don't try to tell me they can add time to a sentence because I choose not to go to drug classes or anger management. Cause it just an't so!
Brent
I'm going to edit this since I may not have been completely clear in my statement.
Is the judicial system as it stands now rehabilitory? No, not nearly as much as it should be. BUT, it SHOULD be. It isn't supposed to just be "lock 'em up and throw away the key", we should be helping those who commit crime to avoid future criminogenic behaviours, not just repeatedly punish them.
You think the Police services in Most major Cities release the stats on every crime? That's pretty Gullable there Mark.
California put in that 3 strike law. Retards who don't pay attention or are just too stupid figuring they were not going to get caught are now serving life sentences. The crime rate has dropped in California so it is working.
Can't do the TIME don't do the Crime. Plain and Simple.
And a lot of these MORONS can't be rehabilitated cause they are just too stupid!
__________________________________________________
Another Historic Ignorant Post................
I'm going to edit this since I may not have been completely clear in my statement.
Is the judicial system as it stands now rehabilitory? No, not nearly as much as it should be. BUT, it SHOULD be. It isn't supposed to just be "lock 'em up and throw away the key", we should be helping those who commit crime to avoid future criminogenic behaviours, not just repeatedly punish them.
Mark
Listen I worked in the system, heck I even taught a cabinet making course to try and give inmates a skill or hobby that they might find interesting and be able to pursue on the outside and yes I believe it was a privilege to attend my classes and so did they, but the line is they were they to serve time given by the state for a crime committed. Rehabilitation is a lofty aspiration, however hardly attainable in the long run and not a reason for locking someone away for any length of time.
You think the Police services in Most major Cities release the stats on every crime? That's pretty Gullable there Mark.
__________________________________________________
Another Historic Ignorant Post................
Nope, it's called Freedom of Information. Sorry Ron, but this post is just idiotic. It is not the Police publishing this information, it is independent organizations, using data gathered from multiple sources, not just police stats. OF COURSE the popo want you scared of the "Bad Guys" . . . that is how they increase their budgets, and get their cool toys. But the facts are that, in this country, violent crime rates are dropping, year over year. This is the point where you posit that people are just not reporting said crimes as much because they feel helpless, or some other nonsense. Go ahead . . .
Oh, and if you think that authorities cannot ADD time to a sentence, you might want to have a chat with Momin Khawaja, and his pals.
For someone who has no real experience in this field I'm going to give you my take. My personal belief is that both punishment and rehabilitation have a place in our criminal justice system, however how much of each and when to apply is the debatable issue. I do believe that there certainly is an element of society where rehabilitation does no or little good. The hard core element will always be there and if we let them out they will definitely re-offend. Trick is to identify and segregate these people from those who will respond positively to rehabilitation efforts.
As Mark says, it is of no use to just "say" crime is up or down in certain areas, it must be backed up by stats to be effective. Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal.
Oh, and if you think that authorities cannot ADD time to a sentence, you might want to have a chat with Momin Khawaja, and his pals.
So is the time added to his sentence because he said he refuses to go to anti terrorism classes where he would learn it is wrong to terrorize other people and countries?
For someone who has no real experience in this field I'm going to give you my take. My personal belief is that both punishment and rehabilitation have a place in our criminal justice system, however how much of each and when to apply is the debatable issue. I do believe that there certainly is an element of society where rehabilitation does no or little good. The hard core element will always be there and if we let them out they will definitely re-offend. Trick is to identify and segregate these people from those who will respond positively to rehabilitation efforts.
As Mark says, it is of no use to just "say" crime is up or down in certain areas, it must be backed up by stats to be effective. Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal.
people should never be punished soley for being punished all that does is feed the punishers ego, its a form of revenge. We all remember the moral of Batman right? their is an argument for punishing them if it will rehab them, however in our system they are likely to commit further and more crimes, if we need stats we'll post them.
One can argue though, that locking people in jail for life will stop them for inflicting crime on society. However this is inhumane. Especially since for instance a sexual abuser was abused when they were young. Jail them for safety maybe, punish them...surely not.
It would be like beating a dog for biting its master after he beat it. Shot the master, the dog will settle down.
"And when one of you falls down he falls for those behind him, a caution against the stumbling stone.
Ay, and he falls for those ahead of him, who though faster and surer of foot, yet removed not the stumbling stone."
- Khalil Gibran
I think we judge criminals is if they had the same opportunities and capabilities as we do....but the don't....its not their fault....it never is....thats intelligence.
people should never be punished soley for being punished all that does is feed the punishers ego, its a form of revenge. I think we judge criminals is if they had the same opportunities and capabilities as we do....but the don't....its not their fault....it never is....thats intelligence.
Another one to leave til I get back to work tonight.
I think we judge criminals is if they had the same opportunities and capabilities as we do....but the don't....its not their fault....it never is....thats intelligence.
Are you saying there should never be punishment only rehabilitation? If so that is really, really, nieve... And is certainly not intelligent...
No, it actually had nothing to do with that. Just wanted to point out that there are circumstances where the Crown can and will impose additional snetencing after a case has been concluded.
And to HVEE, there are innumerable independent studies that point out what an abject failure the 3 strikes laws have been, to the point where in California, one of the first states to adopt the policy (they may have even been first), they are letting certain types of offenders out of jail early, simply because they do not have the capacity to house them all. This is not due to any increase in violent crimes, but due to the States propensity to "federalize" even the smallest of offenses in order to apply that same 3 strikes law. You can have someone busted 3 times for what Canada would classify as simple possession being sentenced to LIFE. Even you have to believe that is retarded. I am not going to bother linking to the studies, because I have no faith it would change your mind. But, if you want to do some research, just look up Institute for Justice, and look around their site for 3 strikes outrages, or check out a guy named Radley Balko, or Reason.com. Lots of available info. there.
And one final thought. The criminal justice system should be a "best practices" environment. What is the BEST method to combine punishment for crimes with a system that prevents recidivism?
Darb will be familair with the Insite program the Conservatives want gone. Any person who is a law and order type should support this program, as it works, not only to reduce crime, but to reduce disease, and many of the unfortunate outcomes that result from the unsafe practices surrounding street drugs. But surprisingly, the L&O folks want it shut down. :bs:
Darb will be familair with the Insite program the Conservatives want gone. Any person who is a law and order type should support this program, as it works, not only to reduce crime, but to reduce disease, and many of the unfortunate outcomes that result from the unsafe practices surrounding street drugs. But surprisingly, the L&O folks want it shut down. :bs:
did not know it by name, but yes i know of this.
if you want to decrease disease and addicts you need these places. if you want to increase them then shut them down. it brings up back to the governement wanting something that will clearly hurt the people. and people with lack of intelligence supporting that decision because it sounds right.
What is the purpose of punishment if its not to rehabilitate?.....
It's called the deterrence theory... sheesh... and is not a measure of intelligence... And why do you keep bringing intelligence into the discussion? Is there some hidden agenda here?
We are alll intelligent...... to some degree..
I think we judge criminals is if they had the same opportunities and capabilities as we do....but the don't....its not their fault....it never is....thats intelligence.
3/4 of these guys Cannot be rehabilitated.
There is a major problem with the system in this country and in the US.
I lived Downtown for 2 years. Dundas and Sherbourne.
I watched Toronto Police round up all of the pimps and crack dealers.
The next night there out of jail and back in the shadows. :bs::bs::bs:
As far of these Independant stats gatherers . Well I don't believe they are getting all of the info.
Stiffer sentencing is what has to be done. Especially for Drug dealers, organized crime and Murderers.
Kiddie Porn peddlers are the lowest scum of the earth. They should be locked away forever.
Guys like Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernardo, Col Williams and Pickton should all be hanging from the Gallows.
Our Government is too busy giving themselves pay increases and deciding how much more they can fuck us, the taxpayers for.
3 strikes will deter a lot of these clowns except for the really stupid ones.
______________________________________________
Another Historic Ignorant Post........................
And why do you keep bringing intelligence into the discussion? Is there some hidden agenda here?
Questioning intelligence here is not aimed at the forums but an important part of the discussion. Canada is imposing laws that have, in other countries, been shown to increase crime.
Comments
i understand the thoughts however why should the punishment for selling something legal without a license be more than selling lemonade without a license. either way pro leaf people generally would accept taxes on weed. The problem is if the government sells it and taxes it, then it has to be legal to grow ourselves.
which reminds of a thought......under the new laws will the government still give out medicinal grow licenses....surely it cannot? <<<< i really think this is something that may hold back the law...
Legalize it to smoke. Not to grow.
There is a big difference between little Mary selling lemonade on the street corner and the burn out selling dime bags.
You license x amount of growers. legalize the distribution and sale through
these growers. Only to licensed smoke shops but you make it illegal to grow even for personal use.
Now you have eliminated the Medical smoke. They can buy it from a smoke shop.
And then say Violent crime is Down . Are you fucking stoned Mark or what.
Simple crimes are down, B & E , Assault , Theft and Murder are all up.
More Home Invasions and Gang bangers shooting people.
why would this be important?
It has to be controlled somehow. And you have to restrict the age to 21 and over.
i can put myself in your perspective a little but i couldn't answer that the way you did....
2 questions come up:
why could we brew our own beer at home but not grow a plant for personal...I think we would need to outlaw beer brewing and wine making all the same...
and why did you pick 21 lol....thats the american drinking age, certainly we should set the age to vote in par with the age to smoke mj? 21 to vote i would say then...and adult is an adult no?
The Union
Hang on...
So you're saying that the place that has instituted your suggestion has an increase in the more dangerous, violent crimes, while people doing the "Simple" crimes are now in jail longer?
The point of the judicial system isn't (and shouldn't) be to just punish wrong-doers. It is SUPPOSED to foster rehabilitation.
But, back to what you just said, I don't understand your angle of claiming that violent crimes are up, while trying to say this is a good approach.
Oh yea... and
SHOW THE EVIDENCE - it isn't true because you "said so"
Mark
This is were you are DEAD WRONG and why your thinking is so far in left field it hardly deserves a response. Rehablitatiion is a by-product of the punishment that is being served for the crimes committed and is always the choice of the inmate. And don't try to tell me they can add time to a sentence because I choose not to go to drug classes or anger management. Cause it just an't so!
Brent
I'm going to edit this since I may not have been completely clear in my statement.
Is the judicial system as it stands now rehabilitory? No, not nearly as much as it should be. BUT, it SHOULD be. It isn't supposed to just be "lock 'em up and throw away the key", we should be helping those who commit crime to avoid future criminogenic behaviours, not just repeatedly punish them.
Mark
California put in that 3 strike law. Retards who don't pay attention or are just too stupid figuring they were not going to get caught are now serving life sentences. The crime rate has dropped in California so it is working.
Can't do the TIME don't do the Crime. Plain and Simple.
And a lot of these MORONS can't be rehabilitated cause they are just too stupid!
__________________________________________________
Another Historic Ignorant Post................
Listen I worked in the system, heck I even taught a cabinet making course to try and give inmates a skill or hobby that they might find interesting and be able to pursue on the outside and yes I believe it was a privilege to attend my classes and so did they, but the line is they were they to serve time given by the state for a crime committed. Rehabilitation is a lofty aspiration, however hardly attainable in the long run and not a reason for locking someone away for any length of time.
Brent
Nope, it's called Freedom of Information. Sorry Ron, but this post is just idiotic. It is not the Police publishing this information, it is independent organizations, using data gathered from multiple sources, not just police stats. OF COURSE the popo want you scared of the "Bad Guys" . . . that is how they increase their budgets, and get their cool toys. But the facts are that, in this country, violent crime rates are dropping, year over year. This is the point where you posit that people are just not reporting said crimes as much because they feel helpless, or some other nonsense. Go ahead . . .
Oh, and if you think that authorities cannot ADD time to a sentence, you might want to have a chat with Momin Khawaja, and his pals.
As Mark says, it is of no use to just "say" crime is up or down in certain areas, it must be backed up by stats to be effective. Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal.
somethings fishy here
So is the time added to his sentence because he said he refuses to go to anti terrorism classes where he would learn it is wrong to terrorize other people and countries?
Brent
Actually HVEE is right according to here...
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm
However I don't believe it is quite this simple... The 3 strike law is not the reason...
people should never be punished soley for being punished all that does is feed the punishers ego, its a form of revenge. We all remember the moral of Batman right? their is an argument for punishing them if it will rehab them, however in our system they are likely to commit further and more crimes, if we need stats we'll post them.
One can argue though, that locking people in jail for life will stop them for inflicting crime on society. However this is inhumane. Especially since for instance a sexual abuser was abused when they were young. Jail them for safety maybe, punish them...surely not.
It would be like beating a dog for biting its master after he beat it. Shot the master, the dog will settle down.
"And when one of you falls down he falls for those behind him, a caution against the stumbling stone.
Ay, and he falls for those ahead of him, who though faster and surer of foot, yet removed not the stumbling stone."
- Khalil Gibran
I think we judge criminals is if they had the same opportunities and capabilities as we do....but the don't....its not their fault....it never is....thats intelligence.
then he prob shouldn't have started by saying not all stats are reported
Another one to leave til I get back to work tonight.
Prophet :2h :2s
Are you saying there should never be punishment only rehabilitation? If so that is really, really, nieve... And is certainly not intelligent...
And to HVEE, there are innumerable independent studies that point out what an abject failure the 3 strikes laws have been, to the point where in California, one of the first states to adopt the policy (they may have even been first), they are letting certain types of offenders out of jail early, simply because they do not have the capacity to house them all. This is not due to any increase in violent crimes, but due to the States propensity to "federalize" even the smallest of offenses in order to apply that same 3 strikes law. You can have someone busted 3 times for what Canada would classify as simple possession being sentenced to LIFE. Even you have to believe that is retarded. I am not going to bother linking to the studies, because I have no faith it would change your mind. But, if you want to do some research, just look up Institute for Justice, and look around their site for 3 strikes outrages, or check out a guy named Radley Balko, or Reason.com. Lots of available info. there.
And one final thought. The criminal justice system should be a "best practices" environment. What is the BEST method to combine punishment for crimes with a system that prevents recidivism?
Darb will be familair with the Insite program the Conservatives want gone. Any person who is a law and order type should support this program, as it works, not only to reduce crime, but to reduce disease, and many of the unfortunate outcomes that result from the unsafe practices surrounding street drugs. But surprisingly, the L&O folks want it shut down. :bs:
What is the purpose of punishment if its not to rehabilitate?.....
did not know it by name, but yes i know of this.
if you want to decrease disease and addicts you need these places. if you want to increase them then shut them down. it brings up back to the governement wanting something that will clearly hurt the people. and people with lack of intelligence supporting that decision because it sounds right.
It's called the deterrence theory... sheesh... and is not a measure of intelligence... And why do you keep bringing intelligence into the discussion? Is there some hidden agenda here?
We are alll intelligent...... to some degree..
urm . . . personal responsibility?
There is a major problem with the system in this country and in the US.
I lived Downtown for 2 years. Dundas and Sherbourne.
I watched Toronto Police round up all of the pimps and crack dealers.
The next night there out of jail and back in the shadows. :bs::bs::bs:
As far of these Independant stats gatherers . Well I don't believe they are getting all of the info.
Stiffer sentencing is what has to be done. Especially for Drug dealers, organized crime and Murderers.
Kiddie Porn peddlers are the lowest scum of the earth. They should be locked away forever.
Guys like Clifford Olsen, Paul Bernardo, Col Williams and Pickton should all be hanging from the Gallows.
Our Government is too busy giving themselves pay increases and deciding how much more they can fuck us, the taxpayers for.
3 strikes will deter a lot of these clowns except for the really stupid ones.
______________________________________________
Another Historic Ignorant Post........................
Deterrence to whom?
Questioning intelligence here is not aimed at the forums but an important part of the discussion. Canada is imposing laws that have, in other countries, been shown to increase crime.
possible, but debatable .....wrong thread
products of society.....not their fault