Lot's of love Shannon lot's of love.
I am hijacked my own thread!!!
I changed the subject line because I need to know does this game cause everyone to get this angry or is it something else? Â Is it possible my topic is that stupid it sparks this much hate? Possible. Sad if it does but I will accept it if that's the cause.
People jump in with insults and "BS this" and "idiot that" and I am left to wonder what is this world coming too. Â There were many other threads in the last month that I refrained from commenting on that were just full of hate and insults that it was scary.
Any thoughts  ???  Is it the game?
I will save the forum from any more unnecessary bad beat hands and rigged online posts. I apologize for bringing it up. I will keep it to myself.
Have a good weekend
Magi
I read your post as I was typing. Â Very well said and you are right. Â In any particular hand the worst of draws are never millions to 1 even thou it may feel that way.
I just got back from a psychology lecture that I think is relevant here. The class was all about the self, and one thing the prof spoke about was what we in western culture attribute our successes and failures to. Very simple, when we succeed its because we are great and when we fail it is because of our environment, something we can't control. In eastern cultures this is not true. When they succeed they focus on who helped them get there, and when they fail the blame themselves for not trying hard enough.
Pokerdo, my point is that the other thousand times you get all in like that and win you think you made a great play and deserved to win. The one time you lose to runner runner its not your fault and you need something to blame for losing, so therefor the site must be rigged.
And don't try to combat this argument by saying that no one else on the forum blames the site for being rigged when they lose so I must be wrong. When I lose a hand like that (I'm assuming others here think generally the same thing), I blame probability. Although its not so much "blaming" as it is accepting that 1 in 100 times I'm going to lose to a two outer or whatever on the river. I think you just need understand that "unlikely" and "impossible" don't mean the same thing.
I just got back from a psychology lecture that I think is relevant here. The class was all about the self, and one thing the prof spoke about was what we in western culture attribute our successes and failures to. Very simple, when we succeed its because we are great and when we fail it is because of our environment, something we can't control. In eastern cultures this is not true. When they succeed they focus on who helped them get there, and when they fail the blame themselves for not trying hard enough.
Pokerdo, my point is that the other thousand times you get all in like that and win you think you made a great play and deserved to win. The one time you lose to runner runner its not your fault and you need something to blame for losing, so therefor the site must be rigged.
I just got back from a psychology lecture that I think is relevant here. The class was all about the self, and one thing the prof spoke about was what we in western culture attribute our successes and failures to. Very simple, when we succeed its because we are great and when we fail it is because of our environment, something we can't control. In eastern cultures this is not true. When they succeed they focus on who helped them get there, and when they fail the blame themselves for not trying hard enough.
Pokerdo, my point is that the other thousand times you get all in like that and win you think you made a great play and deserved to win. The one time you lose to runner runner its not your fault and you need something to blame for losing, so therefor the site must be rigged.
Very simple, when we succeed its because we are great and when we fail it is because of our environment, something we can't control.
the other thousand times you get all in like that and win you think you made a great play and deserved to win. The one time you lose to runner runner its not your fault and you need something to blame for losing, so therefor the site must be rigged.
This is so interesting! I think we all tend to forget to pots where we're the ones to squeak by on a two-outer and catch our miracle card on the river.
It's easy to get frustrated when it happens (especially when you're on a bad streak)....but zero is right. It's probability, and in the long run, if you're in with the best of it, you'll come out on top.
The reason these bad beat/rigged posts get flamed is because for the most part they are a repeat of the type of post may of us have seen over and over and over.
Noone likes a bad beat and it is a natural reaction to want to let the world know to seek comfort. I post a bad beat once in a while, we all do.
However, once a person makes that transition to blaming rigged sites is when it gets really tiring and frustrating, because they never have the statistics or any real logic behind their emotional arguements.
Most of the time it is what it is, like in this case when a bad player playing badly gets lucky. It happens. I have been in heads up situation in a sit and go where my opponent wins 8 of 8 all ins always as an underdog usually dominated. Strange things can and will happen, in fact if strange things never happened that would be extremely strange.
Instead of reacting in a hyper emotional way (emailing support, taking your money out) while proclaiming a site is rigged after a single bad beat, why not sit back and try to think of the logic behind the accusations.
Why would Pokerstars rig a low level buy in Sit and Go? They already have their rake, it makes them no extra money.
Why would they rig it to screw just you? Anyone who thinks this has a much greater sense of self importance then they should, given the immense amount of programming work needed to selectively hurt random low limit players (at no financial benefit to Stars).
The list can go on but it all leads to very unlikely, bizarre beliefs that are based on no logic whatsoever, beliefs that get very tiring to listen to when one has heard variations of them over and over and over.
The simple answer is usually the correct one. In this case a bad player got lucky. It happens in this game.
For one I don't think stars is rigged, I cannot win there. I do see more runner runner crap there than anywhere else. So I chose not to play there. I think I got like 33 bux in their or something. Since I believe I cannot win there I choose not to play there. Give me poker room pacific party poker.com anywhere but stars.
i think the sites are rigged yeah, but not against anyone in particular. I have heard rumours that the RNG isnt so random, but based on the seat. Thats how i feel alot of the time on stars and party cash, either i cant win or i cant lose. one or the other. About the few years ago stuff about stars being rigged, well that was from a source that used to work there. Cant proove anything though so no point in discussing it.
I know dozens of major players that think stars cash is the biggest joke ever, just designed to move money around. I have seen trackers from optimal players of 100k hands and while they do have +bb/100 it is really pathetic.
Now at this point I dont know what to believe. When I play online I try my best and have shown to profit.
This is for the original poster. I have played a ton of $25 PL and NL for a party promotion the past few days, and there have definitely been some standout hands. The thing is that's the point - they are unusual hands that do not happen that often. There were pretty much the most memorable of the lot (sample of about 10,000 hands). There were certainly dozens of other hands I sort of remember (AA vs KK and such) , but 99% + of hands I have no memory of.
I imagine the same goes for that sit and go you were in. The last hand was a standout one so it does just that - stands out. Add to that the fact that it's the one you lost on and rigged theories are born. But do you remember many of the other 100+ hands that happened in that sit and go? If not was it because they were routine? I suspect so. That's the flaw of selective memory and inadequate sample sizes.
If I posted the following hands without context (ie: from a sample size of 10,000+ over the past few days) I am sure some people would believe Party is rigged. My belief is less exotic. I simply believe unlikely events happen at unlikely intervals.
Anyways enjoy:
Hand 1:
Flop trip kings yet drawing dead post flop. Admire the third person's quality full ring game play (which probably is worse then your heads up opponent's play)
$25 PL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, March 25, 23:39:05 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1211430 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Forest05 ( $34 )
Seat 2: squire2168 ( $13.40 )
Seat 4: rogcar ( $26.19 )
Seat 5: Monteroy ( $29.05 )
Seat 6: WhoopWhoop6 ( $14.91 )
Seat 7: manthacat ( $22.41 )
Seat 8: tesla3605 ( $42.35 )
Seat 9: cl7de ( $42.52 )
Seat 10: STINKYPIPE ( $4.66 )
Seat 3: fast5vic ( $28.95 )
rogcar posts small blind [$0.10].
Monteroy posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Monteroy [Â Kd Ks ]
anthacat folds.
tesla3605 folds.
cl7de raises [$0.75].
STINKYPIPE folds.
Forest05 calls [$0.75].
squire2168 folds.
fast5vic calls [$0.75].
rogcar calls [$0.65].
Monteroy raises [$4.25].
cl7de calls [$3.75].
orest05 folds.
fast5vic calls [$3.75].
rogcar folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ah, 6d, Kc ]
Monteroy bets [$14.25].
cl7de calls [$14.25].
fast5vic is all-In.
Monteroy calls [$10.20].
cl7de calls [$10.20].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qh ]
Monteroy is all-In.
cl7de calls [$0.10].
** Dealing River ** [ Jd ]
Monteroy shows [ Kd, Ks ] three of a kind, kings.
cl7de shows [ Ac, Ad ] three of a kind, aces.
fast5vic shows [ Kh, Ts ] a straight, ten to ace.
cl7de wins $0.20 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, aces.
fast5vic wins $85.35 from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.
He lost all of those winnings plus another $25 buy in within 45 minutes after that hand, which generally is the fate of very weak players.
Hand 2:
Needed a 1000-1 runner runner post flop to set this up. Also proved why one should have the max buy in available at all times
***** Hand History for Game 3819686590 *****
$25 PL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, March 25, 17:12:15 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1210575 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 10: tesla3605 ( $44.85 )
Seat 2: Monteroy ( $31.06 )
Seat 4: paulo_7 ( $28.52 )
Seat 3: frogee100 ( $28.89 )
Seat 9: tran29 ( $25.62 )
Seat 5: PokrBeachBum ( $6.63 )
Seat 1: AFV75 ( $17.55 )
Seat 8: de_pot ( $12.85 )
Seat 7: ChipEctomy ( $8.90 )
Seat 6: golflady826 ( $29.65 )
ChipEctomy posts small blind [$0.10].
de_pot posts big blind [$0.25].
paulo_7 posts big blind + dead [$0.35].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Monteroy [Â Ah 9h ]
tran29 calls [$0.25].
tesla3605 folds.
AFV75 folds.
Monteroy calls [$0.25].
paulo_7 checks.
PokrBeachBum folds.
golflady826 calls [$0.25].
ChipEctomy calls [$0.15].
de_pot checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 5d, Jd ]
ChipEctomy checks.
de_pot checks.
tran29 checks.
Monteroy checks.
paulo_7 checks.
golflady826 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
ChipEctomy checks.
de_pot bets [$0.25].
tran29 folds.
Monteroy calls [$0.25].
paulo_7 folds.
golflady826 calls [$0.25].
ChipEctomy calls [$0.25].
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
ChipEctomy checks.
de_pot checks.
Monteroy bets [$0.75].
golflady826 raises [$3].
ChipEctomy calls [$3].
de_pot folds.
Monteroy raises [$5.50].
golflady826 calls [$3.25].
ChipEctomy is all-In.
Monteroy raises [$4.30].
golflady826 calls [$4.30].
Monteroy shows [ Ah, 9h ] a full house, Nines full of fives.
golflady826 shows [ Qc, 9c ] a full house, Nines full of fives.
ChipEctomy shows [ Jc, Js ] a full house, Jacks full of nines.
Monteroy wins $2.03 from side pot #1 with a full house, Nines full of fives.
golflady826 wins $2.02 from side pot #1 with a full house, Nines full of fives.
ChipEctomy wins $26.45 from the main pot with a full house, Jacks full of nines.
Hand 3:
2 ladies > 4 men
***** Hand History for Game 3824296679 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, March 26, 09:10:13 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1211016 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: alexis0211 ( $32.21 )
Seat 2: KingFraggle ( $24.35 )
Seat 4: Monteroy ( $27.35 )
Seat 5: RenatoGomes ( $25 )
Seat 6: zecke2 ( $21.86 )
Seat 7: INNITMUSH ( $24.58 )
Seat 9: heavenswing ( $8.20 )
Seat 10: GrnTblPlayer ( $28 )
Seat 8: sushimaki ( $23.75 )
Seat 3: olinONE ( $25.35 )
heavenswing posts small blind [$0.10].
GrnTblPlayer posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Monteroy [Â Qs Qh ]
alexis0211 raises [$2].
KingFraggle folds.
olinONE folds.
Monteroy calls [$2].
RenatoGomes folds.
zecke2 calls [$2].
INNITMUSH folds.
sushimaki folds.
heavenswing folds.
GrnTblPlayer folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, 2c, Td ]
alexis0211 bets [$4].
Monteroy raises [$10].
zecke2 is all-In [$19.86]
alexis0211 calls [$15.86].
Monteroy is all-In [$15.35]
alexis0211 calls [$5.49].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
Monteroy shows [ Qs, Qh ] a full house, Queens full of aces.
zecke2 doesn't show [ Kh, Ks ] two pairs, aces and kings.
alexis0211 shows [ Kc, Kd ] two pairs, aces and kings.
Monteroy wins $10.98 from side pot #1 with a full house, Queens full of aces.
Monteroy wins $62.93 from the main pot with a full house, Queens full of aces.
Hand 4:
Next time maybe I will 44 out him on the riverÂ
***** Hand History for Game 3819120628 *****
$25 PL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, March 25, 15:45:27 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1209352 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: sfishing ( $23.98 )
Seat 8: tran29 ( $60.97 )
Seat 9: tesla3605 ( $29.22 )
Seat 3: Monteroy ( $25.50 )
Seat 1: de_pot ( $13 )
Seat 2: HOLDmyFOLD ( $24.50 )
Seat 4: b12344321 ( $12.80 )
Seat 7: laner7pin ( $9.20 )
Seat 6: Tpoker333 ( $25.80 )
Seat 10: Superdave12 ( $25 )
de_pot posts small blind [$0.10].
HOLDmyFOLD posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Monteroy [Â Ts Td ]
Monteroy calls [$0.25].
b12344321 folds.
sfishing calls [$0.25].
Tpoker333 folds.
laner7pin calls [$0.25].
tesla3605 folds.
de_pot calls [$0.15].
HOLDmyFOLD checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2h, Tc, 7c ]
de_pot checks.
HOLDmyFOLD checks.
Monteroy checks.
sfishing bets [$0.25].
laner7pin folds.
de_pot calls [$0.25].
HOLDmyFOLD folds.
Monteroy calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2s ]
de_pot checks.
Monteroy checks.
sfishing bets [$0.73].
de_pot folds.
Monteroy raises [$2.46].
sfishing calls [$1.73].
** Dealing River ** [ 9c ]
Monteroy bets [$6.62].
sfishing is all-In.
Monteroy calls [$14.40].
Monteroy shows [ Ts, Td ] a full house, Tens full of twos.
sfishing shows [ Jc, 8c ] a straight flush, jack high.
sfishing wins $46.56 from the main pot with a straight flush, jack high.
PokerStars Game #4427741567: Tournament #21125953, Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (5000/10000) - 2006/03/27 - 00:04:59 (ET)
Table '21125953 178' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: skittles_165 (164414 in chips)
Seat 2: Hoss_TBF (468108 in chips)
Seat 3: FossilMan (637824 in chips)
Seat 4: ActionJeff (489783 in chips)
Seat 5: IgorFederal (213231 in chips)
Seat 6: MrteddyKGB (159203 in chips)
Seat 7: Who is next (150826 in chips)
skittles_165: posts the ante 500
Hoss_TBF: posts the ante 500
FossilMan: posts the ante 500
ActionJeff: posts the ante 500
IgorFederal: posts the ante 500
MrteddyKGB: posts the ante 500
Who is next: posts the ante 500
FossilMan: posts small blind 5000
ActionJeff: posts big blind 10000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
IgorFederal: folds
FossilMan said, "shoot! should have played my 83o"
MrteddyKGB: folds
Who is next: folds
skittles_165: folds
Hoss_TBF: raises 15000 to 25000
FossilMan: calls 20000
ActionJeff: raises 75000 to 100000
Hoss_TBF: folds
FossilMan: raises 390000 to 490000
ActionJeff: calls 389283 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [4c 2h 4s]
*** TURN *** [4c 2h 4s] [8s]
Who is next said, "wow"
*** RIVER *** [4c 2h 4s 8s] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
FossilMan: shows [4d 4h] (four of a kind, Fours)
ActionJeff: shows [Qd Ad] (a pair of Fours)
FossilMan collected 1007066 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1007066 | Rake 0
Board [4c 2h 4s 8s 9s]
Seat 1: skittles_165 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Hoss_TBF (button) folded before Flop
Seat 3: FossilMan (small blind) showed [4d 4h] and won (1007066) with four of a kind, Fours
Seat 4: ActionJeff (big blind) showed [Qd Ad] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 5: IgorFederal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: MrteddyKGB folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Who is next folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Oh, that is a tough beat!
What's with Norway betting that hand? I'm a newb, but that seems wrong.
I just started money games on PStars yesterday. Early on I was dealt AA two hands in a row! I'm sure some of the other players felt like things were fixed. I quickly allayed their suspicions by playing away my winnings.
Seen it all. Lost with pocket tens to 6s to a runner runner flush. Just today i saw Aces go against Kings who hit a King on the flop. It happens alot, so nothing special.... but you're right it DOES happen alot. I really don't understand the way they can ensure the random shuffling and what not. I also agree that online poker odds seem different from real life odds. It always seems to favour the draw, or the draw to a draw... Can someone explain in easy english how online poker odds and shuffling works?
thx
btw, i saw on WPT a 0.3% to win hit his running 7s to get a full house. (A7 off vs AK, flop was rainbow 4 K 4) so that stuff does happen in real life too
I was playin in a NL live cash game flopped the nut str8, my opponent bet I pushed he called with an over pair of QQ turn was a Q and river paired board giving him the tight. I immediately cashed out, went to my truck, wrote a letter to the cardroom manager asking him how this could possibly happen. He read the letter out loud in the cardroom the whole place burst out laughing and I haven't went back since.
My point is.......it happens to everyone everywhere.
Do you realy think that poker stars is going to risk a billion dollar business by rigging there site to favor a selected few players to win tournaments or even cash games? I don't think so.
I really don't understand the way they can ensure the random shuffling and what not.
Through testing and analysis. Quite simply, they use the same types of algorithms used in cryptography, and these are testable to ensure proper random distribution. Whether you actually trust the companies performing the audits is different, but it is definitely possible to test the math and code.
I also agree that on-line poker odds seem different from real life odds.
They are a bit different simply due to speed/scale. On-line is quicker, so I see twice as many hands per table, and I play 4 tables at a time. So I am seeing 8x as many hands as live, so it's to be expected that I will see more weirdness. An easy way to think of it is that I will see as many suck-outs in 1 hour on-line as I would during a full day at the casino, and the "odds" haven't changed (only the number of hands).
Can someone explain in easy english how online poker odds and shuffling works?
"Poker odds" are the same live as on-line, assuming a random shuffle. Shuffling algorithm's basically randomize the deck using a random number generator (RNG). While overly simplistic, as an example, you draw a random number and insert the card there. So if the RNG produces 5, 8, 14 ... the deck would be in the order :5s :8s :ah ... (assuming the deck order is programmed as a-k shdc). Hopefully that's clear enough.
Lol I don't give a crap what any of you say. It is rigged, but not in the way you think it is. It is rigged to keep people in play. Even money distribution. I was beat twice by runner runner 4 of a kind pocket aces after I had been on a considerable winning streak. The second time was in a $50 double or nothing. Wish I still had the hand history. Q9d, 3diamonds on the flop, 5 people in the hand. I bet heavily into it right off the flop, everyone folds except one. Hes gotta know I have a flush or atleast a draw. Ad comes up on the turn pretty much garunteed flush. I push well over 70% of my chips in(since I know the ace of D is on the board n the chances of him having the king are extremly low). Now at this point he has 3 aces(I don't know this btw), but must know I have a flush. So what player, fish or not, would call over 70% of his chips? Simple answer, someone who knew(or was pretty convinced) they were getting that ace on the river. And what do you know? Ah on the river. I fear a boat but am commited at this point. So I push all-in and he calls. What do you know? Pocket A 4 of a kind. Twice in 1 night. The odds are astranomical. & It's not just this one time. I've been beat in similiar situations like that all the time, especially when I go on winning streaks in double or nothings. & I am a damn good poker player. I break even just about all the time before I started to realize how it worked, and it is not because of bad play. If I go on a loosing streak for 15-20min & they toss me a winning hand, even one that I folded on, I will forsure play the next 2-3 because I know one of them will be a winner and it almost always is, regardless of how crappy the cards are. 63off seems to be a huge winner for me when i've been consistantly beaten for awhile. If I get that I auto bet into it and it almost always paid off. Hit it for a boat today as a matter a fact, flopped 63 and a 6 on the turn. You can almost see the pattern when you sit down and play for 10-12 hours every day. EVERY DAY. Based on the hand I get and the flop, I can tell you w/80% certainty if its gunna be a winner or not. I fold pocket AA so much because I've been beat w/it going all in the last 8(yes the last 8 times) preflop or otherwise. And generally when I fold it I'm right. After awhile you pick up on when they are tossing u a winning hand and a loosing hand. I've been on streaks where I have won alot soley from bluffing, & then I get tossed 4-5-even 6-7 pocket pairs in a 10-15 hand period(what are the odds agian?). Not one of them a winner. I've went over 200 hands w/out seeing one winner after I've won for a bit. So in a sense yes it is rigged. but not for any one individual person. And yes it is very possible to make alot of money. And the reason they are NOT scared of being caught is A. they SUBMIT their programs to be tested. This isn't IA where they come and raid your computers. The company submits a sample to be tested. They can put anything they want in the software they actually use. B. There is virtually no risk of being caught because of this. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PRODUCE TOTALLY RANDOM NUMBERS BASED ON MATHAMATICAL VALUES!!! ANY RETART w/ANY MATH & PROGRAMMING KNOWLEDGE CAN TELL YOU THIS!!! That fact alone means it is nothing compaired to a real shuffle of the deck and that it is rigged.
Lol I don't give a crap what any of you say. It is rigged, but not in the way you think it is. It is rigged to keep people in play. Even money distribution. I was beat twice by runner runner 4 of a kind pocket aces after I had been on a considerable winning streak. The second time was in a $50 double or nothing. Wish I still had the hand history. Q9d, 3diamonds on the flop, 5 people in the hand. I bet heavily into it right off the flop, everyone folds except one. Hes gotta know I have a flush or atleast a draw. Ad comes up on the turn pretty much garunteed flush. I push well over 70% of my chips in(since I know the ace of D is on the board n the chances of him having the king are extremly low). Now at this point he has 3 aces(I don't know this btw), but must know I have a flush. So what player, fish or not, would call over 70% of his chips? Simple answer, someone who knew(or was pretty convinced) they were getting that ace on the river. And what do you know? Ah on the river. I fear a boat but am commited at this point. So I push all-in and he calls. What do you know? Pocket A 4 of a kind. Twice in 1 night. The odds are astranomical. & It's not just this one time. I've been beat in similiar situations like that all the time, especially when I go on winning streaks in double or nothings. & I am a damn good poker player. I break even just about all the time before I started to realize how it worked, and it is not because of bad play. If I go on a loosing streak for 15-20min & they toss me a winning hand, even one that I folded on, I will forsure play the next 2-3 because I know one of them will be a winner and it almost always is, regardless of how crappy the cards are. 63off seems to be a huge winner for me when i've been consistantly beaten for awhile. If I get that I auto bet into it and it almost always paid off. Hit it for a boat today as a matter a fact, flopped 63 and a 6 on the turn. You can almost see the pattern when you sit down and play for 10-12 hours every day. EVERY DAY. Based on the hand I get and the flop, I can tell you w/80% certainty if its gunna be a winner or not. I fold pocket AA so much because I've been beat w/it going all in the last 8(yes the last 8 times) preflop or otherwise. And generally when I fold it I'm right. After awhile you pick up on when they are tossing u a winning hand and a loosing hand. I've been on streaks where I have won alot soley from bluffing, & then I get tossed 4-5-even 6-7 pocket pairs in a 10-15 hand period(what are the odds agian?). Not one of them a winner. I've went over 200 hands w/out seeing one winner after I've won for a bit. So in a sense yes it is rigged. but not for any one individual person. And yes it is very possible to make alot of money. And the reason they are NOT scared of being caught is A. they SUBMIT their programs to be tested. This isn't IA where they come and raid your computers. The company submits a sample to be tested. They can put anything they want in the software they actually use. B. There is virtually no risk of being caught because of this. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PRODUCE TOTALLY RANDOM NUMBERS BASED ON MATHAMATICAL VALUES!!! ANY RETART w/ANY MATH & PROGRAMMING KNOWLEDGE CAN TELL YOU THIS!!! That fact alone means it is nothing compaired to a real shuffle of the deck and that it is rigged.
Oh btw also, my 3rd tourney I ever played(I was using play money at the time) I entered a FL 7card hi/lo. I had never played hi/lo before and kinda had the jist of it just by the name, but really wasen't sure what I was doing. Well about 15 minutes into the tourney I realized that I was kicking ass & I didn't even know what the best hands were. From that point I just started betting as much as I could on every hand. And I won 85-90% of them. Within 2 minutes of me starting my betting I was the chip leader and remained the chip leader until the final table. When there was 4 people left. I folded out one hand and the other 3 stayed in. Ended up going all in and one person won over 780k chips. I was just under 450k. He did end up beating me, but the simple fact of how I made it to that final table is messed up & means something is really wrong. & I have 2 of my RL friends that witnessed this(1 is the man who introduced me to PS). I told them to get online and watch after about half way through. They coulden't beleive how I was winning like that, bet bet bet bet, one after another, not caring what I had & I won almost every time. It got to the point where everyone that was at my table was sitting out because they coulden't win. One person would get eliminated off blinds, another would join the table. within 5 min he would be sitting out too. So take it whatever way you want. It is a messed up system, but you can win alot of money(i have) if you know what to look for and what to avoid.
Comments
I am hijacked my own thread!!!
I changed the subject line because I need to know does this game cause everyone to get this angry or is it something else? Â Is it possible my topic is that stupid it sparks this much hate? Possible. Sad if it does but I will accept it if that's the cause.
People jump in with insults and "BS this" and "idiot that" and I am left to wonder what is this world coming too. Â There were many other threads in the last month that I refrained from commenting on that were just full of hate and insults that it was scary.
Any thoughts  ???  Is it the game?
I will save the forum from any more unnecessary bad beat hands and rigged online posts. I apologize for bringing it up. I will keep it to myself.
Have a good weekend
Magi
I read your post as I was typing. Â Very well said and you are right. Â In any particular hand the worst of draws are never millions to 1 even thou it may feel that way.
Â
You MAY want to double check the latest point leader there beanie...
Someone MUCH more deserving.
Mark
It's doing pretty good...
Mark
Pokerdo, my point is that the other thousand times you get all in like that and win you think you made a great play and deserved to win. The one time you lose to runner runner its not your fault and you need something to blame for losing, so therefor the site must be rigged.
And don't try to combat this argument by saying that no one else on the forum blames the site for being rigged when they lose so I must be wrong. When I lose a hand like that (I'm assuming others here think generally the same thing), I blame probability. Although its not so much "blaming" as it is accepting that 1 in 100 times I'm going to lose to a two outer or whatever on the river. I think you just need understand that "unlikely" and "impossible" don't mean the same thing.
Very relevent and very true, interesting to boot!
Good point. Â Something to think about. Â Thanks
This is so interesting! I think we all tend to forget to pots where we're the ones to squeak by on a two-outer and catch our miracle card on the river.
It's easy to get frustrated when it happens (especially when you're on a bad streak)....but zero is right. It's probability, and in the long run, if you're in with the best of it, you'll come out on top.
Noone likes a bad beat and it is a natural reaction to want to let the world know to seek comfort. I post a bad beat once in a while, we all do.
However, once a person makes that transition to blaming rigged sites is when it gets really tiring and frustrating, because they never have the statistics or any real logic behind their emotional arguements.
Most of the time it is what it is, like in this case when a bad player playing badly gets lucky. It happens. I have been in heads up situation in a sit and go where my opponent wins 8 of 8 all ins always as an underdog usually dominated. Strange things can and will happen, in fact if strange things never happened that would be extremely strange.
Instead of reacting in a hyper emotional way (emailing support, taking your money out) while proclaiming a site is rigged after a single bad beat, why not sit back and try to think of the logic behind the accusations.
Why would Pokerstars rig a low level buy in Sit and Go? They already have their rake, it makes them no extra money.
Why would they rig it to screw just you? Anyone who thinks this has a much greater sense of self importance then they should, given the immense amount of programming work needed to selectively hurt random low limit players (at no financial benefit to Stars).
The list can go on but it all leads to very unlikely, bizarre beliefs that are based on no logic whatsoever, beliefs that get very tiring to listen to when one has heard variations of them over and over and over.
The simple answer is usually the correct one. In this case a bad player got lucky. It happens in this game.
I know dozens of major players that think stars cash is the biggest joke ever, just designed to move money around. I have seen trackers from optimal players of 100k hands and while they do have +bb/100 it is really pathetic.
Now at this point I dont know what to believe. When I play online I try my best and have shown to profit.
I imagine the same goes for that sit and go you were in. The last hand was a standout one so it does just that - stands out. Add to that the fact that it's the one you lost on and rigged theories are born. But do you remember many of the other 100+ hands that happened in that sit and go? If not was it because they were routine? I suspect so. That's the flaw of selective memory and inadequate sample sizes.
If I posted the following hands without context (ie: from a sample size of 10,000+ over the past few days) I am sure some people would believe Party is rigged. My belief is less exotic. I simply believe unlikely events happen at unlikely intervals.
Anyways enjoy:
Hand 1:
Flop trip kings yet drawing dead post flop. Admire the third person's quality full ring game play (which probably is worse then your heads up opponent's play)
$25 PL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, March 25, 23:39:05 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1211430 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Forest05 ( $34 )
Seat 2: squire2168 ( $13.40 )
Seat 4: rogcar ( $26.19 )
Seat 5: Monteroy ( $29.05 )
Seat 6: WhoopWhoop6 ( $14.91 )
Seat 7: manthacat ( $22.41 )
Seat 8: tesla3605 ( $42.35 )
Seat 9: cl7de ( $42.52 )
Seat 10: STINKYPIPE ( $4.66 )
Seat 3: fast5vic ( $28.95 )
rogcar posts small blind [$0.10].
Monteroy posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Monteroy [Â Kd Ks ]
anthacat folds.
tesla3605 folds.
cl7de raises [$0.75].
STINKYPIPE folds.
Forest05 calls [$0.75].
squire2168 folds.
fast5vic calls [$0.75].
rogcar calls [$0.65].
Monteroy raises [$4.25].
cl7de calls [$3.75].
orest05 folds.
fast5vic calls [$3.75].
rogcar folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ah, 6d, Kc ]
Monteroy bets [$14.25].
cl7de calls [$14.25].
fast5vic is all-In.
Monteroy calls [$10.20].
cl7de calls [$10.20].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qh ]
Monteroy is all-In.
cl7de calls [$0.10].
** Dealing River ** [ Jd ]
Monteroy shows [ Kd, Ks ] three of a kind, kings.
cl7de shows [ Ac, Ad ] three of a kind, aces.
fast5vic shows [ Kh, Ts ] a straight, ten to ace.
cl7de wins $0.20 from side pot #1 with three of a kind, aces.
fast5vic wins $85.35 from the main pot with a straight, ten to ace.
He lost all of those winnings plus another $25 buy in within 45 minutes after that hand, which generally is the fate of very weak players.
Hand 2:
Needed a 1000-1 runner runner post flop to set this up. Also proved why one should have the max buy in available at all times
***** Hand History for Game 3819686590 *****
$25 PL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, March 25, 17:12:15 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1210575 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 10: tesla3605 ( $44.85 )
Seat 2: Monteroy ( $31.06 )
Seat 4: paulo_7 ( $28.52 )
Seat 3: frogee100 ( $28.89 )
Seat 9: tran29 ( $25.62 )
Seat 5: PokrBeachBum ( $6.63 )
Seat 1: AFV75 ( $17.55 )
Seat 8: de_pot ( $12.85 )
Seat 7: ChipEctomy ( $8.90 )
Seat 6: golflady826 ( $29.65 )
ChipEctomy posts small blind [$0.10].
de_pot posts big blind [$0.25].
paulo_7 posts big blind + dead [$0.35].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Monteroy [Â Ah 9h ]
tran29 calls [$0.25].
tesla3605 folds.
AFV75 folds.
Monteroy calls [$0.25].
paulo_7 checks.
PokrBeachBum folds.
golflady826 calls [$0.25].
ChipEctomy calls [$0.15].
de_pot checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 5d, Jd ]
ChipEctomy checks.
de_pot checks.
tran29 checks.
Monteroy checks.
paulo_7 checks.
golflady826 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
ChipEctomy checks.
de_pot bets [$0.25].
tran29 folds.
Monteroy calls [$0.25].
paulo_7 folds.
golflady826 calls [$0.25].
ChipEctomy calls [$0.25].
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
ChipEctomy checks.
de_pot checks.
Monteroy bets [$0.75].
golflady826 raises [$3].
ChipEctomy calls [$3].
de_pot folds.
Monteroy raises [$5.50].
golflady826 calls [$3.25].
ChipEctomy is all-In.
Monteroy raises [$4.30].
golflady826 calls [$4.30].
Monteroy shows [ Ah, 9h ] a full house, Nines full of fives.
golflady826 shows [ Qc, 9c ] a full house, Nines full of fives.
ChipEctomy shows [ Jc, Js ] a full house, Jacks full of nines.
Monteroy wins $2.03 from side pot #1 with a full house, Nines full of fives.
golflady826 wins $2.02 from side pot #1 with a full house, Nines full of fives.
ChipEctomy wins $26.45 from the main pot with a full house, Jacks full of nines.
Hand 3:
2 ladies > 4 men
***** Hand History for Game 3824296679 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, March 26, 09:10:13 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1211016 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: alexis0211 ( $32.21 )
Seat 2: KingFraggle ( $24.35 )
Seat 4: Monteroy ( $27.35 )
Seat 5: RenatoGomes ( $25 )
Seat 6: zecke2 ( $21.86 )
Seat 7: INNITMUSH ( $24.58 )
Seat 9: heavenswing ( $8.20 )
Seat 10: GrnTblPlayer ( $28 )
Seat 8: sushimaki ( $23.75 )
Seat 3: olinONE ( $25.35 )
heavenswing posts small blind [$0.10].
GrnTblPlayer posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Monteroy [Â Qs Qh ]
alexis0211 raises [$2].
KingFraggle folds.
olinONE folds.
Monteroy calls [$2].
RenatoGomes folds.
zecke2 calls [$2].
INNITMUSH folds.
sushimaki folds.
heavenswing folds.
GrnTblPlayer folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Qd, 2c, Td ]
alexis0211 bets [$4].
Monteroy raises [$10].
zecke2 is all-In [$19.86]
alexis0211 calls [$15.86].
Monteroy is all-In [$15.35]
alexis0211 calls [$5.49].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]
** Dealing River ** [ As ]
Monteroy shows [ Qs, Qh ] a full house, Queens full of aces.
zecke2 doesn't show [ Kh, Ks ] two pairs, aces and kings.
alexis0211 shows [ Kc, Kd ] two pairs, aces and kings.
Monteroy wins $10.98 from side pot #1 with a full house, Queens full of aces.
Monteroy wins $62.93 from the main pot with a full house, Queens full of aces.
Hand 4:
Next time maybe I will 44 out him on the riverÂ
***** Hand History for Game 3819120628 *****
$25 PL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, March 25, 15:45:27 ET 2006
Table March GiveAway #1209352 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 5: sfishing ( $23.98 )
Seat 8: tran29 ( $60.97 )
Seat 9: tesla3605 ( $29.22 )
Seat 3: Monteroy ( $25.50 )
Seat 1: de_pot ( $13 )
Seat 2: HOLDmyFOLD ( $24.50 )
Seat 4: b12344321 ( $12.80 )
Seat 7: laner7pin ( $9.20 )
Seat 6: Tpoker333 ( $25.80 )
Seat 10: Superdave12 ( $25 )
de_pot posts small blind [$0.10].
HOLDmyFOLD posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Monteroy [Â Ts Td ]
Monteroy calls [$0.25].
b12344321 folds.
sfishing calls [$0.25].
Tpoker333 folds.
laner7pin calls [$0.25].
tesla3605 folds.
de_pot calls [$0.15].
HOLDmyFOLD checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2h, Tc, 7c ]
de_pot checks.
HOLDmyFOLD checks.
Monteroy checks.
sfishing bets [$0.25].
laner7pin folds.
de_pot calls [$0.25].
HOLDmyFOLD folds.
Monteroy calls [$0.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2s ]
de_pot checks.
Monteroy checks.
sfishing bets [$0.73].
de_pot folds.
Monteroy raises [$2.46].
sfishing calls [$1.73].
** Dealing River ** [ 9c ]
Monteroy bets [$6.62].
sfishing is all-In.
Monteroy calls [$14.40].
Monteroy shows [ Ts, Td ] a full house, Tens full of twos.
sfishing shows [ Jc, 8c ] a straight flush, jack high.
sfishing wins $46.56 from the main pot with a straight flush, jack high.
Guess who is the chip leader?
PokerStars Game #4427741567: Tournament #21125953, Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (5000/10000) - 2006/03/27 - 00:04:59 (ET)
Table '21125953 178' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: skittles_165 (164414 in chips)
Seat 2: Hoss_TBF (468108 in chips)
Seat 3: FossilMan (637824 in chips)
Seat 4: ActionJeff (489783 in chips)
Seat 5: IgorFederal (213231 in chips)
Seat 6: MrteddyKGB (159203 in chips)
Seat 7: Who is next (150826 in chips)
skittles_165: posts the ante 500
Hoss_TBF: posts the ante 500
FossilMan: posts the ante 500
ActionJeff: posts the ante 500
IgorFederal: posts the ante 500
MrteddyKGB: posts the ante 500
Who is next: posts the ante 500
FossilMan: posts small blind 5000
ActionJeff: posts big blind 10000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
IgorFederal: folds
FossilMan said, "shoot! should have played my 83o"
MrteddyKGB: folds
Who is next: folds
skittles_165: folds
Hoss_TBF: raises 15000 to 25000
FossilMan: calls 20000
ActionJeff: raises 75000 to 100000
Hoss_TBF: folds
FossilMan: raises 390000 to 490000
ActionJeff: calls 389283 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [4c 2h 4s]
*** TURN *** [4c 2h 4s] [8s]
Who is next said, "wow"
*** RIVER *** [4c 2h 4s 8s] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
FossilMan: shows [4d 4h] (four of a kind, Fours)
ActionJeff: shows [Qd Ad] (a pair of Fours)
FossilMan collected 1007066 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1007066 | Rake 0
Board [4c 2h 4s 8s 9s]
Seat 1: skittles_165 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Hoss_TBF (button) folded before Flop
Seat 3: FossilMan (small blind) showed [4d 4h] and won (1007066) with four of a kind, Fours
Seat 4: ActionJeff (big blind) showed [Qd Ad] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 5: IgorFederal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: MrteddyKGB folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Who is next folded before Flop (didn't bet)
http://pokerforum.ca/forum/index.php?topic=8547.0
Anyone can win when they flop quads!
I still liked his comment the most
"Whenever I catch a card, everyone says its fixed. But when someone catches on me, no one says anything" (paraphrased)
What's with Norway betting that hand? I'm a newb, but that seems wrong.
I just started money games on PStars yesterday. Early on I was dealt AA two hands in a row! I'm sure some of the other players felt like things were fixed. I quickly allayed their suspicions by playing away my winnings.
Happens all the time. Especially on the rigged sites.
He was semi-bluffing his draw, its a standard advanced-level move.
thx
btw, i saw on WPT a 0.3% to win hit his running 7s to get a full house. (A7 off vs AK, flop was rainbow 4 K 4) so that stuff does happen in real life too
My point is.......it happens to everyone everywhere.
Do you realy think that poker stars is going to risk a billion dollar business by rigging there site to favor a selected few players to win tournaments or even cash games? I don't think so.
They are a bit different simply due to speed/scale. On-line is quicker, so I see twice as many hands per table, and I play 4 tables at a time. So I am seeing 8x as many hands as live, so it's to be expected that I will see more weirdness. An easy way to think of it is that I will see as many suck-outs in 1 hour on-line as I would during a full day at the casino, and the "odds" haven't changed (only the number of hands).
"Poker odds" are the same live as on-line, assuming a random shuffle. Shuffling algorithm's basically randomize the deck using a random number generator (RNG). While overly simplistic, as an example, you draw a random number and insert the card there. So if the RNG produces 5, 8, 14 ... the deck would be in the order :5s :8s :ah ... (assuming the deck order is programmed as a-k shdc). Hopefully that's clear enough.
Would that be star bux, Joe?
That was a pretty good draw she was semi bluffing too.
NO I don't drink coffee anymore. Saving it up to lose to someone I at least know at the next forum tourney.
bump
mmmmm retarts...I like the cherry filled ones
btw, paragraphs are your friend.
ps. way to bump a 4 year old post.