Why this Site Will Eventually Shut Down

245

Comments

  • To be honest I've stayed away from posting in strategy posts because I feel that my poker knowledge is tiers below those who already contribute, ie. GTA, Richard, BTP, etc.. it can be kind of intimidating. I don't want to offer advice which is wrong or partially wrong.

    Then dont offer advice!

    Part of the experience is talking about hands and asking questions to the rest of the community.

    The next time you play live, Im almost certain there will be a specific hand or situation you question while youre driving home.

    Why not post it here and see what people think?
  • I wonder if this discussion begs the question as to whether this site is a poker community or a poker learning site? Or both? A while back during a similar discussion about something, drtyore called it a poker learning site which kind of surprised me. I think he was offering his free, non optional coaching. I disagreed that it was exclusively that, and could be a venue for learning as part of a community.

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  • Am i an example?
    I joined this site 3 yrs ago because I had a question about a hand I played in a tourney at Brantford. I got the answers I wanted and nobody filleted me. Since then I have barely played poker. I've played 2 tournies at Aj's and that was 2 yrs ago. I went to Vegas in may armed with some info off of Moose, GTA etc but I didn't bother with a tr as I only played maybe 6 hrs of cards in 3 days.

    I'm not even a wknd hack anymore. I read strat on here and I think to myself, I have no interest in learning the game if this is now the bare minimum. 10 yrs ago I was probably a decent player compared to the field. Now I'm a fish, so I play for kicks once in a blue moon. I haven't played online in a yr and even when I did it was a 40$ deposit every month or so.

    This site is friendly enough, if not a bit incestuous.

    As for AJ game the first one I went to I finished 2nd. Totally luck boxed my way hitting everything. I had Steve Kerr tilted so bad he was starting to berate me and even tweeted during the game that I was the worst player and hitting everything. At a casino I would have expected this, but for a 40$ home game he should have just gone and f***** himself. I didn't say anything then as it was the first time I had met anyone from the site. If it were at a casino I probably would have been kicked out because I wouldn't have just remained quiet or ignored him.

    Anyway, I know Steve is a demigod around here and most of this is probably blasphemy. Under other circumstances I might have had another opinion but that kind of turned me off from home games from this site and posting any legit questions.
    As it turned out, my interest and funds available for poker dried up pretty fast with the birth if our son 2 yrs ago
    Any grammar errors - wrote this on my iPhone.

    I've never berated anyone in a live game no matter how much I've lost on a given night.

    I've also came to realize around 8 years ago that most posters on here don't play very much poker.

    Poker right now seems to be in a bit of a tailspin due to various reasons (US banning online poker, the economy, countless confirmed cheating scandals...).
  • I really wish that the forum was better distributed in terms of live poker content for all of Canada. The forum may have been that way at one point but now it seems to be 90% Ontario stuff. I don't contribute to much poker related content because so much of it is about Ontario casinos and poker rooms. It's not anyone's fault, it's just the way it has turned out.

    Hmmm..give it a month.

    Gabbo
  • I don't know anything about the value of websites, but I recall quickly googling the value of this site 3-4 years ago and coming up with around 5k. Today...$2 to $710 across 5 valuation search engines.

    Comp could probably comment more on the reliability of these numbers.

    PS -- I would buy it before it shut down, so no imminent demise ahead.
  • Ha. I checked that out earlier as well. Profit anywhere from $3 per day to I think $50 or something.

    What would our world look like with GTA as our overlord? Gabbo? (I still have no idea what that means other than some character from the simpsons circa S03 or something)

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  • GTA Poker wrote: »
    I don't know anything about the value of websites, but I recall quickly googling the value of this site 3-4 years ago and coming up with around 5k. Today...$2 to $710 across 5 valuation search engines.

    Comp could probably comment more on the reliability of these numbers.

    PS -- I would buy it before it shut down, so no imminent demise ahead.
    I would be the one buying it.. :) lol, no fear of it shutting down as it does generate + revenue, just not sure of the amount. As for reliability of those numbers, the site is worth what someone is willing to pay for it... With the free modding there is little expense involved, just the hosting fees. I would think this site (although I can't tell) is on some sort of hosting service where a monthly charge is based on size and traffic. So more traffic generates both cost and revenue. Difference is profit. Jesse could tell us but is not likely to.. I would guess a few hundred a month is all.. However as long as there is profit we should be in no danger.
    Ha. I checked that out earlier as well. Profit anywhere from $3 per day to I think $50 or something.
    I think somewhere in between is probably right.. Guessing $10-20. per day.
  • Wetts1012 wrote: »
    Re: Bill

    At no point did I say I had any issue with the amount of volume in the OTL.

    My theory is that the lack of poker content, on a poker forum, will eventually cause it to fail.

    Maybe . . .

    Combined with the fact that we are losing the strong poker related posters (Richard, Jules, BTP - did you guys even notice they were gone?),

    Yes . . . but there are several factors that may have caused this. Lack of engagement in poker discussion is simply one, while "outgrowing" the knowledge base is another.

    I was just asking that the OTL posters engage the poker discussion a little more. That way, new poker related posters wont feel intimidated and those who left will be replaced.

    Much like Bill and Movowelling, I enjoy the strat section, but rarely post. I have an understanding of GTO play, as well as what is meant by "unexploitable play", etc. the thing is, I am simply not going to commit the time needed for that knowledge to be worth serious study on my part. I suspect most of the "regs" who do not post in the strat for a are in a similar boat. they have reached a skill level that allows them to enjoy the games they frequent, and be reasonably competitive.
    It does not mean I do not learn anything from those posts, simply that I feel any contribution I might make would be that of a high schooler talking to PhD candidates.

    Its so frustrating that there are people who have played this game for years on this forum and have absolutely no drive or desire to learn more or improve.

    I can understand that point, as it is one I experience with the fish that I exploit away from the Forum (and yes, there ARE bigger donks than me out there). People play for many reasons, and trying to teach those who will not learn will drive you insane.
  • Milo wrote: »
    It does not mean I do not learn anything from those posts, simply that I feel any contribution I might make would be that of a high schooler talking to PhD candidates.

    ^This.
  • Milo wrote: »
    People play for many reasons, and trying to teach those who will not learn will drive you insane.

    Exactly. I believe I offered a very good thread on how to beat all live NL games 5/5 and below and barely anyone wanted to learn.

    In the early days of the annoyance I even offered to coach fed via skype, etc on how to beat live games in Vancouver and he never followed-up.

    The problem with many poker players is that they are lazy when it comes to the game. I see a few forum regs that have been here for years that still make the same glaring errors in their live cash games (based on hands they post) and they just refuse to learn.

    So be it. I enjoy the forum for various reasons and have (obviously, since I haven't played poker in almost half a year (gabbo)) learned to enjoy the forum for what it is and for who the people are on here.

    For the most part, poker players on here don't want to learn much about poker and many of the ones that claim they want to learn (or, more often that they want to make money) just refuse to learn for whatever reason. I'm talking about the very basic things like live winrates, variance, game selection, etc. Given that we have much the same pool of posters over the years it does get tiresome trying to teach those that refuse to learn.

    So, the poker info tends to die off.

    It probably also does not help that the game has gotten more difficult to beat and that online poker is in a current state of rapid decline.

    On the plus side, we have come to the consensus that there is not GOD, God, G-d or god. And that Milo requires stronger meds.
  • GTA Poker wrote: »
    Exactly. I believe I offered a very good thread on how to beat all live NL games 5/5 and below and barely anyone wanted to learn.

    In the early days of the annoyance I even offered to coach fed via skype, etc on how to beat live games in Vancouver and he never followed-up.

    The problem with many poker players is that they are lazy when it comes to the game. I see a few forum regs that have been here for years that still make the same glaring errors in their live cash games (based on hands they post) and they just refuse to learn.

    So be it. I enjoy the forum for various reasons and have (obviously, since I haven't played poker in almost half a year (gabbo)) learned to enjoy the forum for what it is and for who the people are on here.

    For the most part, poker players on here don't want to learn much about poker and many of the ones that claim they want to learn (or, more often that they want to make money) just refuse to learn for whatever reason. I'm talking about the very basic things like live winrates, variance, game selection, etc. Given that we have much the same pool of posters over the years it does get tiresome trying to teach those that refuse to learn.

    So, the poker info tends to die off.

    It probably also does not help that the game has gotten more difficult to beat and that online poker is in a current state of rapid decline.

    On the plus side, we have come to the consensus that there is not GOD, God, G-d or god. And that Milo requires stronger meds.

    I re-read that 5-5 thread many times. Infact, when I get the courage or drunk enough I will post probably the worst cash game bust this forum has seen. I also re-read the vekked strat for the Sunday million from a few yrs ago.
  • GTA Poker wrote: »
    Exactly. I believe I offered a very good thread on how to beat all live NL games 5/5 and below and barely anyone wanted to learn.

    In the early days of the annoyance I even offered to coach fed via skype, etc on how to beat live games in Vancouver and he never followed-up.

    The problem with many poker players is that they are lazy when it comes to the game. I see a few forum regs that have been here for years that still make the same glaring errors in their live cash games (based on hands they post) and they just refuse to learn.

    So be it. I enjoy the forum for various reasons and have (obviously, since I haven't played poker in almost half a year (gabbo)) learned to enjoy the forum for what it is and for who the people are on here.

    For the most part, poker players on here don't want to learn much about poker and many of the ones that claim they want to learn (or, more often that they want to make money) just refuse to learn for whatever reason. I'm talking about the very basic things like live winrates, variance, game selection, etc. Given that we have much the same pool of posters over the years it does get tiresome trying to teach those that refuse to learn.

    So, the poker info tends to die off.

    It probably also does not help that the game has gotten more difficult to beat and that online poker is in a current state of rapid decline.

    On the plus side, we have come to the consensus that there is not GOD, God, G-d or god.

    Really?!? Must have missed that one . . .

    And that Milo requires stronger meds.

    Meds? No. Vodka? DEFINITELY
  • I came here a few years ago to learn about the game and feel like I've done that.

    I still enjoy the game very much and constantly wish to get better however sometimes I can be really quite limited in what games I can play and I feel stunted and there is really nothing I can do to really improve playing at those games...

    So much in my game I want to improve just no idea where to start.. and many of the things i'm sure most here would think is very basic stuff.

    Also may sound silly but sometimes the real lack of any BCers here gets me down I believe there is only one other regular right now.. kind of makes me sad knowing the chances of finding any new games and blood.
  • I also enjoyed gtas low limit cash game thread
  • i feel like i have posted a decent amount of questions. i've tried to comment on other's questions but as some have stated, i too feel like i'm not good enough to give suggestions a lot of the time.
  • Been "lurking" this thread...

    It's an "unbeatable problem" as we like to say around here, given the current trends, IMO.

    Kevmath RTed an article that in some twisted way relates:

    Infinite Edge Gaming – Fearing the complex

    if we ever hope to "shape" a solution, we need to mold new players. We must also remember that all skill aside, only a very small portion of players are motivated, or naturally "talented" enough to grasp the game the way some of our best do. The savant will always be bored of the less exceptional, or maybe even just less obsessed. Add in the
    barriers of a lopsided population of Ontario to everywhere else and trying to maintain our Canadian "theme" and well, it is what is.

    Personally, I like our social club and while it's not 2+2, that's also what I like about it. I feel like I know a lot of people here and consider you all friends IRL.

    As to revenues, could it be "fixed?" to attract more players? I don't think so. Negreanu is arguably one of the favorite role models in the world, and you don't see his forum doing much more than here. I'm guessing we have tons of "lurkers"; our perception is that because we don't have posters, we aren't bringing people in, yet Alexa often has PFC killing it for Canadian ranking.

    As others have said, online is on a decline right now, so it's not like you can take blood from a rock. Players are better and give up easier than when most of got in the game, most have accounts on the big sites there aren't new revenues to be had, or they are extra afraid to get involved given a few years of shitty happenings. We are Demographically challenged, so we haven't seen a lot of marketing dollars directed at Canada until other markets where choked out, so how are we sell the dream, pushing the sucess stories to the next generation of Waterloo kids?

    It's also daunting as hell now...when we got in it was "Moneymaker turned 2 bucks turned into 2 million", now we have $1,000,000 buy-ins. It's like projecting "so you want to try rock climbing, every bodies whos anybody is tackling Everest."

    Last but not least you have a giant controlling 70%+ of the online traffic; with such a chokehold they are giving less back to both players and affiliates, further choking reasons for some to stay and others to get in the promotion game.

    Basically, yes, the forum is somewhat "broken", but to generalize, the affiliate revenue system isn't working well right now period.
  • I think this thread was somewhat prophetic as the forum appears broken in general today. Difficulty getting the site to show up since this morning.
  • Being, I believe, one of the few active poster from Alberta, I can relate to the BC 'segregation'.

    What I try to do, is post any tourney series happening around here, to let the rest of the country know what might be worth travelling to.

    Mack and Tony, please post BC related poker stuffs.......I, for one, would like to read up on it.

    I know all about Ontario poker due to the other 95% of the forum....but I bet everyone would like to here what's happening everywhere in Canada.

    I also encourage all to offer their thoughts in strategy, no matter how bad you think you are.....if you offer bad advice, others will let you know.....but that's part of getting better.
  • Speaking of western "alienation" the wife is now situated with a company that affords her the ability to travel a little for work, but also to transfer across the country. It seems to me that the western provinces are much further ahead of Ontario both in terms of availability of games and in terms of Customer Service, as well. The idea of moving west intrigues me.
  • I would say it is mostly confined to Alberta. You're welcome to stay for a bit once I find a place. Winter may be a bad time to decide:)
  • T8urmoney wrote: »
    Mack and Tony, please post BC related poker stuffs.......I, for one, would like to read up on it.

    I would but I don't usually keep up to date with live poker. Even though there's very little posted in the BC section, I still get most of my local poker news from here. I'm just a low limit rec player :( Not enough of a BR to play in $100+ buy in games.
  • Before you move based on false myths, at least try the twice-a-month game at Casino Rama with only 5% rake, or the Deep Stacks with only 4% rake scheduled four times every month at a couple of OLG casinos. For cash games, join the 5+ forumers at our second weekly invasion of Woodbine & see for yourself all 11 tables full and the $20,000+ in play at the 5/5 table, or join Icedog & his bachelor party buddies at Fallsview with 12-18 tables up to 5/10.

    With the usual exception of Fallsview, all four of the new OLG poker rooms that have opened up in the GTA the past year :cool: & Rama have above-average customer service. No wonder I've been making more money with the availability of +EV live games in Ontario than grinding online!
    Milo wrote: »
    It seems to me that the western provinces are much further ahead of Ontario both in terms of availability of games and in terms of Customer Service, as well. The idea of moving west intrigues me.
  • BlondeFish wrote: »
    Before you move based on false myths, at least try the twice-a-month game at Casino Rama with only 5% rake, or the Deep Stacks with only 4% rake scheduled four times every month at a couple of OLG casinos. For cash games, join the 5+ forumers at our second weekly invasion of Woodbine & see for yourself all 11 tables full and the $20,000+ in play at the 5/5 table, or join Icedog & his bachelor party buddies at Fallsview with 12-18 tables up to 5/10.

    With the usual exception of Fallsview, all four of the new OLG poker rooms that have opened up in the GTA the past year :cool: & Rama have above-average customer service. No wonder I've been making more money with the availability of +EV live games in Ontario than grinding online!

    Tournies are a nice aside, but if you want to make consistent money you have to be playing cash. AB has the best cash games in the world for the stakes offered. Mind you, there are not many games >5/5, but you can make decent money at lower stakes there. If the games are the same as when I lived there 2-6 years ago (and I hear the are) then you can make pretty decent money just playing 1/2...which is unheard of anywhere else that I know of in the world.

    To state that someone living in Toronto could be happy making the trek to Fallsview 5 times a week to play cash is not realistic. Having many legal options within 5-20 minutes is much more viable an option. I am proof of this. I could never be bothered driving all the way to FV/GBH/wherever on a regular basis during my 4 years back in Toronto, yet I played 2-3 sessions a week in both Calgary and Edmonton. Add to this the fact that the YHead monthly tournaments were super soft (can't comment on Calgary as I never played a tournament there) you have a perfect place for a part-time player...if you can survive the winters. Actually, the winters probably increased my hours at the tables.

    As far as customer service, there is no comparison (based on my previous experiences) AB rooms >>>>> ON rooms.
  • Urm, I certainly would not move for something as mundane as POKER. It would be contingent on the wife's opportunities.
  • Milo wrote: »
    Urm, I certainly would not move for something as mundane as POKER. It would be contingent on the wife's opportunities.

    they has churches too...where would these opportunities be?
  • Milo wrote: »
    Urm, I certainly would not move for something as mundane as POKER. It would be contingent on the wife's opportunities.

    Depending on what field she works (and yourself) you probably won't find many places better than Calgary for jobs. Our wages are good since we have unions to compete with in many areas, and are always looking for people in many areas.

    Edmonton might be a little slower, but not much if it all. I just find many relocate from there to here. First 5 years, most people absolutely love being so close to mountains as well. Rivers aren't as popular this year though....

    We get WAY less snow accumulation that Edmonton as well, due to chinooks even though we are only 3 hours apart. Generally a slight bit warmer winter but average temperatures across the board work out very close.

    We have privitized many of the "sin" taxed things (liquor for one) and don't have sales tax, so yeah, gambling and such might be regulated, but at heavily.
  • GTA Poker wrote: »
    they has churches too...where would these opportunities be?


    Urm, I said I was a failed Catholic and, while I am sure they are nice churches, I am not there yet. She works for a sprinkler and fire suppression company.
  • Been lurking this thread since it was created. Darryl's summary expresses my own thoughts that I've had for quite awhile, and those of many others over the past couple of years. PFC is NOT a poker forum...its a social forum that offers poker discussion.

    On any given day, you will find two to three times posts in OTF than all the other subgroups combined. Not that this is a bad thing...all discussions are usually fair, interesting, and can be informative.

    When I first signed up here, the group of regular posters concentrated on POKER, mostly online, and there were many many indepth analysis offered and disputed daily. I found it much more educational and as a new player, found many concepts hard to digest only because of my lack of experience with the game. What I found early on was that new players were often torn to shreds on their requests and often made to feel inadequate in their skills, which I was no doubt, but very little was offered as genuine help. Most of my personal knowledge on this game did NOT come from this site at all, and I think most here would say the same thing. We might start out here, but move on to other sites for education and advise. This forum, as a POKER forum, was and is currently not up to standard imho.

    Not to say there haven't been some gems here. GTA's posts on cash game theory are rock solid, great advise, and BTP and Wetts tournament game successes are proof that this forum does have what it takes to be a very informative and helpful arena. But there is simply more bashing and personal attacks being hurled at each other in these threads that it makes them redundant and readers lose interest in the original questions/answers of the threads.

    I've came to realize some time ago that I will never be as profitable at this game as many of you seem to have been, and I'm okay with that. I still enjoy the game, the theory, and MOST of the people I've come to meet from playing this game. I enjoy live play more than online, and I still would love to play more often. I think my game has come a long way, but it will never be up to par with BTA or Wetts or GTA's or most of the rest of the upper level players here, and I"m still okay with that. But it would be nice to actually make a profit and maintain a level. A concept I had thought I had, but apparently have not.

    It would be great if this forum had more 'training' opportunity other than being thrown to the wolves. It would great to see more coaching in either one to one or in small groups. And it would be great if some of the more successful players here would actually take more time and create vids or threads that concentrated on specific concepts of the game. It will never be a 2+2 environment, but it would go a long way in generating more traffic and increasing the POKER value of this forum.

    Alas, I am most likely talking out of my ass, and its been awhile for me since I last played. Not because I don't want to either. I can't wait until I'm in a position to start up the league again as I very much enjoy the social aspect of the game, and damnit it was fun!! Other than posts in The Hill section here, my forum participation is almost nil over the past few years, but I would enjoy it more if it were more centered on the game rather than on topics not related.

    Will this site crash and burn? I doubt it. Its got a very good solid base of participants who enjoy the social aspects of the group as it is. I doubt if this site will, but it is and has been changing from a POKER forum to more of a YMCA type of thing (something for everyone). I just wish some of the members here would post more strategy related topics rather than "If you have Hate in your heart" or theory of God topics.

    tl;dr don't blame you...i wouldn't have read it all either. just killing time before i head out for a ride
  • I might add I'm not the biggest fan of big city life having grown up in Saskatchewan, but have always been able to be mostly satisfied with Calgary. I lived in both Edmonton and Vancouver, think Van is the nicest of the 3 but too bloody expensive and short on work. Edmonton is alright, better access to less saturated lakes.

    I hate traffic like everyone, but if you are even remotely employable, you work here and there is a lot to be said about security and stability.
  • Milo wrote: »
    Urm, I said I was a failed Catholic and, while I am sure they are nice churches, I am not there yet. She works for a sprinkler and fire suppression company.

    OMG! Your set.
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