Ahmadinejad speech at Columbia University

UnknownUnknown
in Off Topic Lounge
This was the most paradigm shifting video I have seen. It will be hard to stomach for some, as many of us don't want to think our 'enemies' have rational minds as well. Its a long video so I'll give cliff notes, I realize many won't take the time to watch it, but I really think its crucial to understanding the world.



Cliffs: the host introducer is very rude in his introductions, makes accusations towards the president, suggest that he will avoid answering tough questions, accuses him of being a 'holocaust' denier, and really just comes off as rude and ignorant. The host asks if Iran would even allow a similar talk to happen at their Unis.

The president retorts in a very peaceful polite manner, explains he teaches at an Iranian Uni and of course they would be welcome and in fact they would be treated extremely respectfully unlike the introduction. Then he goes on to answer the other questions while the host actually tries to cut him off. He suggests that there should be more investigation into the Holocaust and that Iran wants nuclear capabilities to serve its peoples power needs. He also points out the Israel essential is illegally nuclear armed.

Ahmadinejad Speech in Columbia University Full Version
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Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    I'm hoping at least one person will watch this video in order to comment. Even if you just watch to the middle/end of the intro I think it would be intriguing enough for anyone to finish.

    Is nobody interested in the opposite side of the coins view?
  • UnknownUnknown
    not really
  • UnknownUnknown
    costanza wrote: »
    not really
    Maybe it should be you watches 20 mins of it, its good even from you not knowing who these people are or what's going on...
  • MiloMilo
    I do not believe that Israel can be said to be illegally armed re: nukes. They have not, so far as I know, signed the nucear non-proliferation agreement. How can you be in violation of an agreement that you are not a party to?

    Also, Bollinger's introductory comments are pretty accurate in their veracity and in the civility with which the rudenes was delivered.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Milo wrote:
    Also, Bollinger's introductory comments are pretty accurate in their veracity and in the civility with which they were delivered.

    I think this is an embarrassingly horrible way to introduce a guest after inviting them to share their view points. Is this really an attempt at understanding or is it starting from a viewpoint.


    Bollinger wrote:
    ...one should know thy enemies...to have the emotional and intellectual courage to confront the mind of evil....

    Mr. President you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator

    I propose further that you let me lead a delegation of students and faculty from Columbia to address your universities about free speech.

    When you have come to a place like (your views on the holocaust) this makes you quite simply ridiculous.

    And why have you....threatened to engulf the world in nuclear annihilation

    I doubt that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these questions. But your avoiding them will in itself be meaningful to us.

    A year ago I am reliably told your preposterous and belligerent statements so embarrassed sensible Iranians that this lead to your parties defeat....may this do that, and more.

    I am only a professor, who is also a uni president and today I feel all the weight of the modern civilized world yearning to express the revoltion at what you stand for, I only wish I could do better.
    I doubt that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these questions. But your avoiding them will in itself be meaningful to us.
    This one is especially ironic because later they try to cut the President off as he is answering.
  • MiloMilo
    Re: His two questions.

    1) There is no barrier to research into the Holocaust . . . none. The "academics" he refers to are the various and sundry "deniers" that have had the stupidity to make said claims in Germany, where Holocaust denial is in fact a crime. I personally disagree with those laws, but Germany makes her own decisions, no? Further, the "research" that these folks carry out is invariably debinked as fast as they can publish it, so lets move to question 2. Also, the Holocaust did not "cause" the Palestinian uprising. His "rainbows and kittens" description of life in the Middle East pre-Israel is disingenuous to say the least.

    2) Iran should be allowed to develop peaceful nuclear energy.

    Q & A:

    Question 1 is answered with a lie, by his own historical statements, and then he veers back to the Palestinians in Israel, avoiding answering the question entirely. When asked for a yes/no answer he demurs and heads back to Palestine . . . ANSWER THE QUESTION, SIR !!!

    Question 2 is answered by relating stories of bombings that were the work of the MEK, not Israel, and again he avoids a direct answer.

    Question 3 goes back to the Holocaust and the President of Iran seems to want to allow every wingnut with an IP address to bloviate endlessly on their pet Holocaust theory. As pointed out by his questioner, there needs to be a starting point for any research, and the President does not seem interested. History is not Physics, sir . . .

    Question 4 is answered with obfuscations. He equates executing homosexuals with executing drug dealers? Really? Oops . . . forgot, no homosexuals in Iran. My bad. Finally, if women are the finest creation of the Almighty, why are they repressed in Iran? He never answers.

    His final statement re: visiting the 9/11 site is about the only portion of his entire speech that I take no umbrage with. He should have been allowed to pay his respects at the site.
  • MiloMilo
    Achmadenijad is a fool and a buffoon. He is merely the public face of the Iranian theocracy. Kill him, and an equally moronic suit will take his place. It is the Imams that hold sway and, until that stranglehold is broken, Iran will not be free.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Now you might see why I need someone like you to show me the arguments you put for and that side of the coin.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Milo wrote: »

    1) There is no barrier to research into the Holocaust . . . none.
    I think that Bollinger and the tone of his question outline a barrier....the question suggests we should not research more. Maybe we won't call that a barrier but its certainly resistance. And people from the other viewpoint feel that its actually a total barrier.
  • MiloMilo
    No . . . the comments surround the concept of the "starting point" for said research. The academics that Ahmadenijad so nobly supports differ wildly from the accepted belief that the Holocaust occured. Their "research", therefore, is (to be polite) wing-nuttery at it's finest.

    Any piece of intelligent research uses as it's starting point an accepted piece of data, whether the field is Physics, math, or history. From that accepted data, a hypothesis is posed, and research is done to either prove or disprove said hypothesis

    You cannot solve Fermat's equation if you use as your starting point 2+2=5. But that is the type of scholarly research that Ahmadenijad wants to support.
  • UnknownUnknown
    I'm not sure if I fully understand you here, you are saying that you can't start from a premise the holocaust didn't happen....you have to start from the accepted fact that it did?

    or its a different starting point we are talking about? I don't really know the groups Ahmadenijad would be referring to.
  • MiloMilo
    You can hypothesize that it did not occur, but said hypothesis will be proven false.

    For example, I will pose the following question for you to study:

    If we assume that the Holocaust is a fabrication, where did all the (non)victims go?

    I will wait for your results

    Simply put, many of the convictions at the Nuremburg trials relied on the Nazis own fanaticism with record-keeping to secure convictions. If the Nazis themselves are putting down on paper that they were killing Jews, gypsies, the mentally infirm, homosexuals, who are we to argue?
  • UnknownUnknown
    Milo wrote: »
    No . . . the comments surround the concept of the "starting point" for said research. The academics that Ahmadenijad so nobly supports differ wildly from the accepted belief that the Holocaust occured. Their "research", therefore, is (to be polite) wing-nuttery at it's finest.

    Any piece of intelligent research uses as it's starting point an accepted piece of data, whether the field is Physics, math, or history. From that accepted data, a hypothesis is posed, and research is done to either prove or disprove said hypothesis

    You cannot solve Fermat's equation if you use as your starting point 2+2=5. But that is the type of scholarly research that Ahmadenijad wants to support.
    Again I don't know that I understand this correctly but I liken it to the orbit theory thing. When looking for complex understandings such as relatively we can't find them if we assume the sun is the center of our orbit.

    Relativity can only be found when we let go of those types of limiting beliefs.

    Again I don't know if that exactly relates to what you said.

    If we start from the premise holocaust deniers are completely crazy we will always come to the conclusion they are also wrong.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Milo wrote: »
    You can hypothesize that it did not occur, but said hypothesis will be proven false.

    For example, I will pose the following question for you to study:

    If we assume that the Holocaust is a fabrication, where did all the (non)victims go?

    I will wait for your results

    Simply put, many of the convictions at the Nuremburg trials relied on the Nazis own fanaticism with record-keeping to secure convictions. If the Nazis themselves are putting down on paper that they were killing Jews, gypsies, the mentally infirm, homosexuals, who are we to argue?
    I don't know if I can answer these but I'm still getting clarification on what you said above first.
  • MiloMilo
    Start here (sorry, comp):

    IBM and the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The book, not necessarily the wiki page.

    or this:

    Revisiting The Horrors Of The Holocaust - CBS News

    or this:

    Sharon Waxman: Why Did the Nazis Film the Dying Jews of Warsaw?
  • UnknownUnknown
    Milo wrote: »
    Start here (sorry, comp):

    IBM and the Holocaust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    wow thats so much like facebook, no wonder people call it a cia tool
  • hiphopopotamushiphopopotamus
    I didn't read any of the thread or watch the video. Just wanted to post this.

    Hulu - Saturday Night Live: SNL Digital Short: Iran So Far
  • MiloMilo
    Larry Flynt should offer a mirrion dollars for gay pix of Ahmadenijad . . . you KNOW they're out there.
  • MiloMilo
    darbday wrote: »
    wow thats so much like facebook, no wonder people call it a cia tool

    As i said, read the book.
  • UnknownUnknown
    hiphopopotamus wrote: »
    I didn't read any of the thread or watch the video. Just wanted to post this.

    Hulu - Saturday Night Live: SNL Digital Short: Iran So Far
    Yes your conditioning will def have you avoiding videos like the op. I'm glad Milo watched it because I know he understand a lot of the things I don't.

    When you posted this did you realize you realize Andy Samberg the central actor making fun of the Iranian president is Jewish?
  • MiloMilo
    So? That makes them both Semites.
  • hiphopopotamushiphopopotamus
    darbday wrote: »
    Yes your conditioning will def have you avoiding videos like the op. I'm glad Milo watched it because I know he understand a lot of the things I don't.

    When you posted this did you realize you realize Andy Samberg the central actor making fun of the Iranian president is Jewish?

    I'm not sure what you mean. I clicked the video, saw that it was an hour and twenty minutes long and decided I had better things to do with my time.

    Like finding a shorter, more amusing video and posting it.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Milo wrote: »
    So? That makes them both Semites.
    Sure but it also makes SNL Semitic propaganda. Especially when you couple that with a Jewish producer and creator (Lorne Micheals).
    hiphopopotamus wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean. I clicked the video, saw that it was an hour and twenty minutes long and decided I had better things to do with my time.

    Like finding a shorter, more amusing video and posting it.
    Yes I am pointing out this is conditioning you are unaware of.
  • MiloMilo
    darbday wrote: »
    Sure but it also makes SNL Semitic propaganda. Especially when you couple that with a Jewish producer and creator (Lorne Micheals).

    Lorne Michaels is Canadian. Of Jewish heritage to be sure, but Canadian nonetheless. And you are wrong. It is not propaganda, it is COMEDY.

    Yes I am pointing out this is conditioning you are unaware of.

    No, you are observing time management skills. I have no life, so was prepared to listen to Mahmoud's drivel in the background while making dinner.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Lorne Michaels is Canadian. Of Jewish heritage to be sure, but Canadian nonetheless. And you are wrong. It is not propaganda, it is COMEDY.
    Well then then you'd have to admit, Hippo's post, was quite a Jewish coincidence?
  • hiphopopotamushiphopopotamus
    darbday wrote: »
    Well then then you'd have to admit, Hippo's post, was quite a Jewish coincidence?

    Or it may be your conditioning. Just decondition yourself and you'll see the truth.
  • UnknownUnknown
    hiphopopotamus wrote: »
    Or it may be your conditioning. Just decondition yourself and you'll see the truth.
    We are discussing the validity of the holocaust and you felt the need to post a Jewish satirical version of the op?

    Still curious if you mean to do that or if you didn't realize the irony of what you were doing?
  • hiphopopotamushiphopopotamus
    darbday wrote: »
    We are discussing the validity of the holocaust and you felt the need to post a Jewish satirical version of the op?

    Still curious if you mean to do that or if you didn't realize the irony of what you were doing?

    You need to think deep about that one. But first you need to consider what the root of the problem is. To go into that though, you need to evaluate why you're conditioned to be the way you are. I'll go into that later.

    While you're waiting, enjoy this video. I was at the show last night. It was pretty good.

    Childish Gambino - Freaks And Geeks (Official Music Video) - YouTube
  • MiloMilo
    Darb . . . why is the first thing you noticed about Hiphop's video the fact that a Jewish performer was involved, and that the Producer of the show was Jewish, rather than the satirical nature of the video itself? Very telling, imo.
  • UnknownUnknown
    hiphopopotamus wrote: »
    . But first you need to consider what the root of the problem is. To go into that though, you need to evaluate why you're conditioned to be the way you are. I'll go into that later.
    You are a doctor and you are playing the copy cat game.

    I believe I have pointed out a very obvious simple and specific irony. You, are playing the copycat game.
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