For anyone that wants fighting out of the game, YOU are the minority, not the other way around.
Do you seriously think the NHL draws fans because people look around at the rules of a sport and say, 'hey, this one allows fighting - this is the sport for me'?
If you and Reibs think that people are more interested in seeing a fight and cheer more for a fight than a goal, then the game is already broken and far beyond repair. It's not a sport anymore.
For anyone that wants fighting out of the game, YOU are the minority, not the other way around.
Again, neither of you have provided a thought out answer on why fighting should remain part of the game... I personally have no argument for/against it but if you are going to take a position at least substantiate it...
I'm one who wonders why MMA is so popular. Brutalizing a human being is ok if it's done in a cage, I guess.
If they took fighting out of hockey, I'd still be a fan. I can take it or leave it. I'd never say I won't watch if they don't ban fighting. It happens so rarely now, fights are a shadow of what they once were during 70s/80s.
If they suspended fighters for x number of games, it still wouldn't stop fighting. That guy would be gone and the roster spot filled with another. The current owners/gms will never ban a player for life for fighting.
And if you are one who equates fighting in the game with fighting in the stands, European soccer blows that theory out of the water.
Thats covered in my post . . . suspend the fighters for "x" number of games (sliding scale for repeat offenders) and deny the teams the ability to fill the spot. See how quickly the goons go away then.
And you cannot compare MMA with hockey. Two totally different sports. For the record, however, the objective in an MMA fight is NOT to brutalize your opponent. That can be a byproduct of the match, but it is decidedly not the objective.
There is no penalty in boxing, MMA, wrestling, tae-kwan-do or the like for fighting because the sports themselves are fighting. You don't get extra points for fighting in hockey. Your team doesn't win the tie breaker for the last playoff spot if you have the most fights won in a season.
The union will never allow them to not fill a roster spot.
Milo, so MMA is ok, but fighting in hockey is bad?
Yes, why do you ask? Also, and this has long been a pet peeve of mine, what business does the Player's Union have supporting fighting? One of the Union's jobs is to preserve the health and well-being of it's membership. Fighting does none of those things.
The roster spot is not going away, the team is merely being penalized temporarily, as is the player. Should be no conflict for the Union.
And, as stated, fighting in hockey is against the rules. In MMA, fighting is, well, the whole point of the sport. As I said, the two are completely different, and thus comparisons are not valid.
I ask because it's ridiculous for someone to condemn hockey because of fighting and at the same time support MMA. Fighting is fighting.
The union's job is to protect the members. That includes protecting the number of roster spots available for their members.
No it's not. Hockey is about hockey. As Cerberus said, there are no extra points for fighting in hockey. I would call MMA ridiculous too if all of a sudden hockey sticks get passed through the cage and they start swinging at each other. There is nothing wrong with fighting as a sport but the sport of hockey doesn't need fighting.
Yup. Done . . . like my viewing. At least until the playoffs start. The pro-fighting side still hasn't addressed why, during the most important part of the Hockey season, that aspect of the game virtually disappears. If it is such a critical part of hockey, and it absolutely has to be there to keep the nasty stick work at bay, how come fighting is almost non-existent in the play-offs?
I was going to leave this thread alone but I cant.
To even state that fighting needs to be out of the game is hog wash.
Fighting in hockey plays a major role. It protects great players (all players actually) from cheap shots, it sends messages and adds toughness.
Fight's dont "just" happen, there is always a reason, weather it be someone simply snowing the goalie, protecting a player after being hit from behind or a team mate being victim of a cheap shot.
fighting also occur's between 2 "tough guy's" . You dont see goal scorer's and supersars fight all that often, and if they do its to spark their team after they have been playing bad or they are frustrated. IT IS PART OF THE GAME.
I played competitive , high caliber junior all the way growing up (I played junior since I was 15) and fighting is not only part of the game, but it is necessary.
If you have never played a competitive game in your life, or are only a casual fan, your opinion really means nothing tbh.
Yup. Done . . . like my viewing. At least until the playoffs start. The pro-fighting side still hasn't addressed why, during the most important part of the Hockey season, that aspect of the game virtually disappears. If it is such a critical part of hockey, and it absolutely has to be there to keep the nasty stick work at bay, how come fighting is almost non-existent in the play-offs?
Yeah, no one watches Olympic hockey or the playoffs in the NHL . . . cuz there's no scraps. That argument is as much BS as whatever comes out of Don's mouth this weekend.
I think you would find similar results in terms of viewership during reg season vs playoffs/olympics across most sports. And it has nothing to do with fighting.
I think you would find similar results in terms of viewership during reg season vs playoffs/olympics across most sports. And it has nothing to do with fighting.
Erm, I think that's the point. How many viewers turn off the TV because they know there are no fights coming? It's not necessary to the game in any way.
The NFL just handed out a year long suspension to Sean Payton and indefinite suspension to Gregg Williams for giving players incentives to hurting opponents....in the most physically violent sport played.
Re Reibs and what the fans like, there are already increasing acts of violence among fans in all major sports resulting in fights, beatings and some resulting in death and being investigated as murders. Does the NHL really want to be the only sport that actively feeds that violent blood lust? I don't think it's a big stretch to think that the fans that get up and cheer fights are the more likely to start the violence among opposing fans.....and those fans are quite welcome to leave when the NHL comes to it's senses and bans fighting, as they will no doubt be replaced by sane individuals who currently avoid it.
If there is increasing number of incidents in all major sports, yet hockey is the only one that "allows" fighting, then how can the incidents be attributed to hockey fights?
Dont get me wrong im all for some type of adjustments to get the heavyweights out of the league, but you just have to have the self policing imo. The league wont let stars sit on sidelines long enough to teach them any lessons....so stiffer suspensions wont work either i dont think
Edit: i mean stiffer suspensions for cheapshot artist and hits from behind, etc
I am not attributing hockey fights to fan violence in sports. I am saying there is one major sport that allows it's fans to see regular bare knuckle brawling and that it can not in any way help the situation.
Surprised that u guys can take this argument, and think fans watching mma is any different in terms of the violence. I mean really, the reason they are there is to inflict pain on each other. Punch, kick, choke, w/e. :-\
Erm, I think that's the point. How many viewers turn off the TV because they know there are no fights coming? It's not necessary to the game in any way.
I think theres a whole hell of a lot of difference between an olympic game (national pride = viewership, 4 lines of talent = viewership) and a regular season hockey game between Florida and New Jersey.
I dont think anyone can deny that the prospect of potentially seeing a fight at least sells a few tickets to these excitement filled matches.
Exibit: Quebec Semi Pro league sells out everywhere.
Im not arguing either side but you cant compare to olympics, where the stands will sellout and people will watch even if you FULLY remove body contact.
I think theres a whole hell of a lot of difference between an olympic game (national pride = viewership, 4 lines of talent = viewership) and a regular season hockey game between Florida and New Jersey.
I dont think anyone can deny that the prospect of potentially seeing a fight at least sells a few tickets to these excitement filled matches.
Exibit: Quebec Semi Pro league sells out everywhere.
Im not arguing either side but you cant compare to olympics, where the stands will sellout and people will watch even if you FULLY remove body contact.
There is a big difference between Olympic and NHL and 4 lines of talent is one of the greatest things I wish for.
If there were fights breaking out in the Olympics all the time would it sell more tickets to the Latvian/Khazakstan match-up?
If the NHL aspires to the integrity of Quebec semi-pro, god help us all.
And how can you argue that fighting is essential to drawing crowds for shitty hockey when we've never seen how good the game could be without it and how many more fans would come and enjoy it?
There is a big difference between Olympic and NHL and 4 lines of talent is one of the greatest things I wish for.
If there were fights breaking out in the Olympics all the time would it sell more tickets to the Latvian/Khazakstan match-up?
If the NHL aspires to the integrity of Quebec semi-pro, god help us all.
And how can you argue that fighting is essential to drawing crowds for shitty hockey when we've never seen how good the game could be without it and how many more fans would come and enjoy it?
Im not arguing either way, the game is fine with or without it.
Im just saying that I think more people watch because of fighting than those that dont watch because of fighting (not sure if that made sense).
This whole "fighting is there to prevent cheap shots and dirty play" is a load of shit. If that's the case then why is there still cheap shots and dirty play? As many people have already mentioned, football is a sport with even more contact than hockey and almost no fighting. It also happens to be the most successful league in North America (also previously mentioned) so their severe penalties for brutality have not been hurting it at all.
I realize that a large percentage of the population equating loving hockey to being a true Canadian and for some reason they also feel the need to defend our national sport's flaws. Like it's an insult to Canada to point our national sport can be improved or that maybe we should look into implement some pretty hefty changes to it for the safety of the players. Again, fighting does NOT make hockey more safe so don't even bother coming back with that horseshit argument.
well I mighta played something back circa pre leafs last cup... lol... Just can't recall, damn that alzheimer's anyways.. Twasn't you I was hinting at tho... I actually coached juvy rep here in Milton back around 1990, thinking you are too young for that tho..
Comments
For anyone that wants fighting out of the game, YOU are the minority, not the other way around.
Do you seriously think the NHL draws fans because people look around at the rules of a sport and say, 'hey, this one allows fighting - this is the sport for me'?
If you and Reibs think that people are more interested in seeing a fight and cheer more for a fight than a goal, then the game is already broken and far beyond repair. It's not a sport anymore.
Again, neither of you have provided a thought out answer on why fighting should remain part of the game... I personally have no argument for/against it but if you are going to take a position at least substantiate it...
Agreed with the above, but who said I'm not still living in a cave? It is where I came from after all.;)
If they took fighting out of hockey, I'd still be a fan. I can take it or leave it. I'd never say I won't watch if they don't ban fighting. It happens so rarely now, fights are a shadow of what they once were during 70s/80s.
If they suspended fighters for x number of games, it still wouldn't stop fighting. That guy would be gone and the roster spot filled with another. The current owners/gms will never ban a player for life for fighting.
And if you are one who equates fighting in the game with fighting in the stands, European soccer blows that theory out of the water.
And you cannot compare MMA with hockey. Two totally different sports. For the record, however, the objective in an MMA fight is NOT to brutalize your opponent. That can be a byproduct of the match, but it is decidedly not the objective.
Milo, so MMA is ok, but fighting in hockey is bad?
Yes, why do you ask? Also, and this has long been a pet peeve of mine, what business does the Player's Union have supporting fighting? One of the Union's jobs is to preserve the health and well-being of it's membership. Fighting does none of those things.
The union's job is to protect the members. That includes protecting the number of roster spots available for their members.
And, as stated, fighting in hockey is against the rules. In MMA, fighting is, well, the whole point of the sport. As I said, the two are completely different, and thus comparisons are not valid.
No it's not. Hockey is about hockey. As Cerberus said, there are no extra points for fighting in hockey. I would call MMA ridiculous too if all of a sudden hockey sticks get passed through the cage and they start swinging at each other. There is nothing wrong with fighting as a sport but the sport of hockey doesn't need fighting.
To even state that fighting needs to be out of the game is hog wash.
Fighting in hockey plays a major role. It protects great players (all players actually) from cheap shots, it sends messages and adds toughness.
Fight's dont "just" happen, there is always a reason, weather it be someone simply snowing the goalie, protecting a player after being hit from behind or a team mate being victim of a cheap shot.
fighting also occur's between 2 "tough guy's" . You dont see goal scorer's and supersars fight all that often, and if they do its to spark their team after they have been playing bad or they are frustrated. IT IS PART OF THE GAME.
I played competitive , high caliber junior all the way growing up (I played junior since I was 15) and fighting is not only part of the game, but it is necessary.
If you have never played a competitive game in your life, or are only a casual fan, your opinion really means nothing tbh.
there is lots of fights in the playoff's LMAO
keep on keepin on...
I think you would find similar results in terms of viewership during reg season vs playoffs/olympics across most sports. And it has nothing to do with fighting.
Erm, I think that's the point. How many viewers turn off the TV because they know there are no fights coming? It's not necessary to the game in any way.
If there is increasing number of incidents in all major sports, yet hockey is the only one that "allows" fighting, then how can the incidents be attributed to hockey fights?
Dont get me wrong im all for some type of adjustments to get the heavyweights out of the league, but you just have to have the self policing imo. The league wont let stars sit on sidelines long enough to teach them any lessons....so stiffer suspensions wont work either i dont think
Edit: i mean stiffer suspensions for cheapshot artist and hits from behind, etc
Surprised that u guys can take this argument, and think fans watching mma is any different in terms of the violence. I mean really, the reason they are there is to inflict pain on each other. Punch, kick, choke, w/e. :-\
I think theres a whole hell of a lot of difference between an olympic game (national pride = viewership, 4 lines of talent = viewership) and a regular season hockey game between Florida and New Jersey.
I dont think anyone can deny that the prospect of potentially seeing a fight at least sells a few tickets to these excitement filled matches.
Exibit: Quebec Semi Pro league sells out everywhere.
Im not arguing either side but you cant compare to olympics, where the stands will sellout and people will watch even if you FULLY remove body contact.
There is a big difference between Olympic and NHL and 4 lines of talent is one of the greatest things I wish for.
If there were fights breaking out in the Olympics all the time would it sell more tickets to the Latvian/Khazakstan match-up?
If the NHL aspires to the integrity of Quebec semi-pro, god help us all.
And how can you argue that fighting is essential to drawing crowds for shitty hockey when we've never seen how good the game could be without it and how many more fans would come and enjoy it?
Im not arguing either way, the game is fine with or without it.
Im just saying that I think more people watch because of fighting than those that dont watch because of fighting (not sure if that made sense).
haha. I actually might argue that yes, this is the case.....
??? I played juvy, so I know my shit.
I realize that a large percentage of the population equating loving hockey to being a true Canadian and for some reason they also feel the need to defend our national sport's flaws. Like it's an insult to Canada to point our national sport can be improved or that maybe we should look into implement some pretty hefty changes to it for the safety of the players. Again, fighting does NOT make hockey more safe so don't even bother coming back with that horseshit argument.
well I mighta played something back circa pre leafs last cup... lol... Just can't recall, damn that alzheimer's anyways.. Twasn't you I was hinting at tho...