This is why I rarely watch NHL anymore

moosemoose
in Off Topic Lounge
Stupidity like this. Both teams start their most heavily penalized players and 3 fights start as soon as the puck is dropped. Also the third time this season the game started with instantaneous fights.

NY Rangers fight with NJ Devils was inevitable between heated rivals who won

NY Rangers, NJ Devils fight three seconds after puck drops, blood scraped from ice before Blueshirts win game - NY Daily News
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Comments

  • kwstevekwsteve
    Used to happen a lot more than it does in this day and age. This is now a rarity.
  • piggypie123piggypie123
    I love it when that happens.
  • MiloMilo
    Much as I love hockey, I do not watch with any regularity until the playoffs start. Why? Because there is none of the crap seen in the OP. No "staged" fights, just good physical hockey. IT frustrates the crap out of me that the NHL is STILL the only major professional sport that does not immediately eject a player for fighting. and spare me all the usual drivel about how it is part of the game . . . IT ISN'T. That's why fighting is a penalty. The NHL could get rid of fighting if it wanted to with little difficulty. Just do something along the following lines:

    1) You fight, you're gone. Immediate ejection for the player that fights, and a 5 minute major penalty for his team. Also, the ejected player earns a 1 game suspension, as well.

    2) Second offence, same thing, except the suspension is 5 games. All subse=quent suspensions will increase by 5 games.

    Teams with players suspended for fighting are NOT allowed to fill that vacant roster spot. Shorten the bench. That is a rule I would apply to ALL suspensions.
  • kwstevekwsteve
    Milo wrote: »
    Much as I love hockey, I do not watch with any regularity until the playoffs start. Why? Because there is none of the crap seen in the OP. No "staged" fights, just good physical hockey. IT frustrates the crap out of me that the NHL is STILL the only major professional sport that does not immediately eject a player for fighting. and spare me all the usual drivel about how it is part of the game . . . IT ISN'T. That's why fighting is a penalty. The NHL could get rid of fighting if it wanted to with little difficulty. Just do something along the following lines:

    1) You fight, you're gone. Immediate ejection for the player that fights, and a 5 minute major penalty for his team. Also, the ejected player earns a 1 game suspension, as well.

    2) Second offence, same thing, except the suspension is 5 games. All subse=quent suspensions will increase by 5 games.

    Teams with players suspended for fighting are NOT allowed to fill that vacant roster spot. Shorten the bench. That is a rule I would apply to ALL suspensions.

    I'm not against your suggestions but you need fighting in the game so the dirty players don't take over the game. They need to be accountable and this is the way hockey does it.

    Like baseball, hockey players try to gain advantage by dirty tricks. Recently Marchand punched a guy in the nuts during a goal mouth scrum. Not caught by the refs, a fight keeps this in check. As much as I like the Habs, Subban tends to slew foot a lot. It's been missed by the refs and I can understand why he gets into altercations.

    This is why they are afraid of a total fighting ban. I would say a game misconduct is good enough. Make the team play the rest of the game down a man should be enough to cut way down on staged fights.
  • Hellmuth's MoleHellmuth's Mole
    kwsteve wrote: »
    I'm not against your suggestions but you need fighting in the game so the dirty players don't take over the game. They need to be accountable and this is the way hockey does it.

    Like baseball, hockey players try to gain advantage by dirty tricks. Recently Marchand punched a guy in the nuts during a goal mouth scrum. Not caught by the refs, a fight keeps this in check. As much as I like the Habs, Subban tends to slew foot a lot. It's been missed by the refs and I can understand why he gets into altercations.

    This is why they are afraid of a total fighting ban. I would say a game misconduct is good enough. Make the team play the rest of the game down a man should be enough to cut way down on staged fights.


    Sorry, I hear this all the time and it's BS.

    The tough guys rarely fight the shit disturbers they fight the other teams tough guys for things the shit disturbers do. So instead of worrying about what might happen if fighting is outlawed punish the jackasses who take advantage and go dirty. If a guy resorts to stickwork because there is no more fighting then suspend him more for the stickwork. ez game.
  • MiloMilo
    No, you do NOT need fighting in the game. As for the cheap shots, come down HARDER on them. Use video review and, if there is a rules violation that was missed, give the offender a 1 game suspension. I would apply this only to "post-whistle" scrums, so as to prevent teams from strategically sending in tapes. Also, it would have to be submitted before your team faces another opponent, or something similar (no waiting until just before you see them again and trying to gain an advantage in the rematch).
  • piggypie123piggypie123
    fighting is part of the game
  • MiloMilo
    Basically, I just wish the refs would call the game as it's written in the rule book, and stop "interpreting" the rules for "the NHL level". Call the game tighter, clamp down HARD on the stick-work, and BAN fighting. And for God sakes, can we stop with yelling at the guys to "move it" when they pile up on the boards? If they want a whistle, blow it. Then drop the puck (no line change for that type of stoppage) and lets get the game MOVING.
  • JohnnieHJohnnieH
    piggypie123 wrote: »
    fighting is part of the game

    Please explain how a game with fighting is better than without.
  • MiloMilo
    piggypie123 wrote: »
    fighting is part of the game

    No, it really is not. That is why there is a penalty for it. Body-checks are part of the game, as is scoring, hip-checks, skating, and passing the puck. Fighting? Not so much . . . Think for yourself, and stop listening to the buffoon wearing the sofa prints as a suit.
  • kwstevekwsteve
    Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. But until all the old owners are dead the mentality of the league will be what I laid out in my post. They will never "crack down" as you guys say for the same reason they don't "crack down" in baseball. Part of the game is seeing what you can get away with if the refs/umps don't see it.

    No reason to get bent out of shape about this. There is still fights in baseball and the odd one in football. They just eject the players afterwards. The NHL should do the same. No big deal.
  • MiloMilo
    So, no one gets suspended for corked bats, or sandpaper in the glove of a pitcher, or for starting a brawl? What baseball do you watch?
  • kwstevekwsteve
    I didn't say no one gets suspended. I said they see what they can get away with if the refs/umps don't see it. Yes, people have been suspended in baseball because they were caught doing the things you've said. How many have not been caught?
  • JohnnieHJohnnieH
    kwsteve wrote: »
    They just eject the players afterwards. The NHL should do the same. No big deal.

    I actually agree with this if they toss both of the offenders and deduct their pay for that game.
  • piggypie123piggypie123
    penalties are a part of the game, therefore fighting is.
  • moosemoose
    Fighting is not needed in basketball or football, two sports with just as much contact as hockey. The problem is the moronic eye for an eye attitude from management to the coaches to the players that exists in hockey. Some guy in basketball gets fouled, you don't see some other player come barrelling in to get retribution. A quarterback gets sacked in football, you don't immediately see a coach throw all his biggest players into the line on the next offensive possession and start blitzing in order to 'get back' at the other QB.

    NHL Hockey is stupid. Some guy gets taken out by an elbow, just hearing the ref blow his whistle and call a penalty is not enough. By the hockey 'code' some idiot decides 'that was a dirty play' and has to go charging in to immediately teach that guy a lesson and draws a roughing minor. The refs are happy to 'even it up' and the cycle continues. In any other sport, contact after a whistle is more heavily penalized and you don't get hardly any of the retaliation crap that occurs in hockey.
  • UnknownUnknown
    woah woah woah, fighting has been a part of the game for decades and decades and plays a huge roll in the game.

    to get rid of it is sacrilegious.

    fighting protects players and upholds the integrity of the game.

    to get rid of it is just... blasphemy.

    I dare someone to debate me on this.
  • MiloMilo
    costanza wrote: »
    woah woah woah, fighting has been a part of the game for decades and decades and plays a huge roll in the game.

    to get rid of it is sacrilegious.

    fighting protects players and upholds the integrity of the game.

    to get rid of it is just... blasphemy.

    I dare someone to debate me on this.

    Why should they? Your entire post is nonsense from the start. The most successful professional sports league in the world is, arguably, the NFL. Every year their competition committee makes small adjustments (and some HUGE ones) to the rules to improve the product on the field. THAT is how you improve your market share in an ever more crowded environment. No one looks at these changes and says, "You can't do that!" The reason they don't is because they understand that the game needs to adapt to it's fans desires or it will lose them. The NHL could be forward thinking like the NFL, and make changes to the game that would have minimal impact on existing fans, but would be an enticement to new ones. The fact that they do not do this just proves how stupid the people running this league are.
  • literationliteration
    Usual. They should get that glowing puck thing back, eh?

    Bettman: Business as usual in the NHL - The Globe and Mail
  • trigstrigs
    this is the reason i've never watched hockey. as a kid, all my friends would talk about the great hit or the crazy fight the next day. i'd what was the score and no one would know. i barely consider it a sport. (yeah i know i'm not really a canadian.)
  • PinheadPinhead
    Milo wrote: »
    Why should they? Your entire post is nonsense from the start. The most successful professional sports league in the world is, arguably, the NFL. Every year their competition committee makes small adjustments (and some HUGE ones) to the rules to improve the product on the field. THAT is how you improve your market share in an ever more crowded environment. No one looks at these changes and says, "You can't do that!" The reason they don't is because they understand that the game needs to adapt to it's fans desires or it will lose them. The NHL could be forward thinking like the NFL, and make changes to the game that would have minimal impact on existing fans, but would be an enticement to new ones. The fact that they do not do this just proves how stupid the people running this league are.

    The NHL makes those minor tweaks every couple seasons. Maybe not anything as obvious ad banning fighting, but there are multiple discussions (GM meetings, preseason R&D camps) that have proposed rule changes tested (with college/CHL players) and voted on. Not saying there are changes every season, or that I agree with the ones they do make, but there are certainly discussions.

    A few years ago goals were down so they talked about a whole pile of ways to increase scoring, including bigger nets, small goalie equipment, the trapezoid, no red line, enforcing the clutching and grabbing, all kinds of things... Some were implemented, others were not.

    As for fighting, it can be an exciting part of the game, but with the number of susbstantial brain injuries that are being found in former athletes and the hypocritical nature of being anti-light breezes that might cause concussions, I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason to only have a moderate penalty for punching people in the head
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Eh, I liked it.
  • piggypie123piggypie123
    (Quote)
    fighting protects players and upholds the integrity of the game.

    to get rid of it is just... blasphemy.


    yup
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    costanza wrote: »
    woah woah woah, fighting has been a part of the game for decades and decades and plays a huge roll in the game.

    to get rid of it is sacrilegious.

    fighting protects players and upholds the integrity of the game.

    to get rid of it is just... blasphemy.

    I dare someone to debate me on this.

    piggypie123 wrote: »
    (Quote)
    fighting protects players and upholds the integrity of the game.

    to get rid of it is just... blasphemy.


    yup
    I am not necessarily against fighting in the game of hockey but this is not a good way of defending it... To say it has always been that way so it can't change is just wearing blinders... You gotta come up with thought out logical reasons... whichever way you lean...
  • djgolfcandjgolfcan
    Slavery was around for centuries and we finally decided it was a bad idea and got rid of it. Wearing seat belts was considered unnecessary and now its illegal to not wear one. Times change, people evolve and so can fighting in hockey. Just saying, "That's the way its always been" is not good enough. If that were true, we'd all still be living in caves.

    I agree with Moose's point, the idea that he did it to us, so we have to do it to them is ridiculous playground nonsense.
  • piggypie123piggypie123
    compuease wrote: »
    I am not necessarily against fighting in the game of hockey but this is not a good way of defending it... To say it has always been that way so it can't change is just wearing blinders... You gotta come up with thought out logical reasons... whichever way you lean...
    I lean towards: let em fight. it's a part of the game.
  • reibsreibs
    Go to an OHL/CHL/any junior level game, and watch what happens when a fight breaks out. Watch how many fans stand up or rush back to their seats to watch it. Hell, you can even tell on tv how crazy the crowd gets for the rough stuff. Its obvious!

    IMHO I think they need to get rid of the goons from the game. As said above, its ridiculous how the "police" themselves now. The agitators cause the commotion, then the fighters come in and battle it out. It should be the fighters come in and pound the agitators. THAT would be policing themselves. Not sure how to accomplish this though. Maybe a maximum number of fights any one player can have over a season or something similar? I dunno....

    Bottom line is the NHL will not completely banish fighting. It draws too many fans.

    Imagine what would happen if we had a bench clearing brawl like the good ol days?
  • Hellmuth's MoleHellmuth's Mole
    The NFL just handed out a year long suspension to Sean Payton and indefinite suspension to Gregg Williams for giving players incentives to hurting opponents....in the most physically violent sport played.

    Re Reibs and what the fans like, there are already increasing acts of violence among fans in all major sports resulting in fights, beatings and some resulting in death and being investigated as murders. Does the NHL really want to be the only sport that actively feeds that violent blood lust? I don't think it's a big stretch to think that the fans that get up and cheer fights are the more likely to start the violence among opposing fans.....and those fans are quite welcome to leave when the NHL comes to it's senses and bans fighting, as they will no doubt be replaced by sane individuals who currently avoid it.
  • CerberusCerberus
    I think the real problem here is spelling.

    Fighting belongs in a RING not a RINK.
  • MiloMilo
    reibs wrote: »
    It draws too many fans.

    Yeah, no one watches Olympic hockey or the playoffs in the NHL . . . cuz there's no scraps. That argument is as much BS as whatever comes out of Don's mouth this weekend.
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