[*]An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war
[*]An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war
Getting back to the OP, AA is 31% against 9 random hands (Monte Carlo simulation). The way I see it, folding on a proposition of contributing 10% to a pot with a 31% chance to win it cannot be justified without some extreme, ridiculous argument.
My guess is that this would indicate that the OP is a solid contender for a troll post.
only 14 outs, but your getting 9x return on your money?
yea, that's correct. i know i'm getting the right math to call, but i'm never one to do the math in the heat of the moment.
but knowing me, i'd probably call regardless of what i had, simply because everyone else was going all in and because i was caught up in the moment. i'm never one to think things through fully on the poker table.
i also realised i made a couple minor mistake in my previous post, but i'm not going to go into it. i wasn't in my right state of mind, when i posted it. so i have no idea was i was trying to say.
In grand tradition, I shall add little to such a wonderful and strategic thread... but I do have a related note to add, a small story if truth be told, a story that is somewhat on topic... if you will allow me but a moment of your time.
It was a dark and stormy night... well, not stormy perhaps, but dreary anyway, and it was indeed after sunset, if time can be so measured whilst at the poker table. Our hero is at Turning Stone for the weekend and is currently chasing his own money around the table. (see here the previously mentioned adjective: dreary) Said hero picks up pocket aces on the button, and proceeds to get them cracked... through no fault of his own, if I may say so. But this is not the story I have come hither to tell... although it is a fine story in its' own rite, and much may be written about it yet, but back to our tale...
The cracking of the aces, as is so common in such environments, sparks a flurry of bad beat stories, including a beaut', involving our hero's immediate neighbor, who seams eager to tell all that are held captive here by their addiction. I shall shorten the tale that was told here, and relate only the relative points... it seems our new protagonist was an the edge of leaving, up about $2000, one night, and was planning to play until his blind; a "handful of hands away", he stated! On the very last hand he is dealt, he finds the dreaded aces... He makes the obligatory raise from utg, and gets raised and then it happens... the cut-off moves in... for almost a grand... but wait, now the button moves in, and he covers our soon-to-be-free man. Now it "on him", and he agonizes, he fidgets, he whines... and he finally calls. Now of the outcome, there is no longer any doubt for those that are listening intently, which include the dealer now, and is cutting into my hands/hr, and our sympathies are with him, as the button spikes a king for the pot. He leaves broke that night... if only he could have folded AA pre-flop!
But the story does not end here... but like a winding trail up a mountain... our story now reaches its' summit, and on-topic too!
The table now erupts into a spirited discussion of whether you can fold AA pre-flop? Imagine the intense feeling of deja-vu I was now expriencing. In fact I was in such shock that I could contribute little to the fray, except for the occasional, "You're an idiot!" or, "Why? Are you allergic to money?" Yes, it was true!... I was at a loss for words!
And then I heard the most profound words that I had ever heard at a poker table. The words came forth from a quiet, older gentleman... an appropriate source it seems, for only with age does wisdom flow like a great river.
Such are his words, that the suspense must be heightened even more... For to not to do so, lessens them unfairly... The words came forth at a moments pause of the calamity of conversation, like the calm before nature unleashes her fury. At their speaking, a great moment of silence fell, and in that moment I knew I was in the presence of greatness, and so overwhelmed was I that from my stack flew forth, not the single white chip that I customarily toss in appreciation of a witty one-liner, but a red... Yes, a nickle, for so impressed was I!
Amidst all the talk of various ways of possibly folding AA pre-flop, came these words...
"If we sit here long enough, I don't doubt that I could come up with a scenario where you slept with a hooker, your own mother and a dog all at once... but that don't make it right!"
Geez...can't believe I read through this thread. However, there is one scenario where you can fold AA preflop and it would be the right move to do....in a super satellite.
Let's say you are in a 500 person supersatellite and the top 50 will get a seat to another tournament. As the tournament approaches the "bubble" you are fortunate to find yourself as the chip leader. Smaller stacks are starting to go into the "fold into the top 50 spots" mode. You have one challenge, the guy who is in second place in chips is also at your table. Let's say for argument purposes that you have position on him.
This guy is also putting a lot of pressure on smaller stacks. So here is the hand example. One of the shorter stacks decides to go all in and it is folded to this guy. For some reason, he decides to go all-in. It gets folded to you and you look down to see AA.....
I don't know about you guys...but I'm folding in this spot. Why take a chance to get cracked by the big stack and get crippled?
Geez...can't believe I read through this thread. However, there is one scenario where you can fold AA preflop and it would be the right move to do....in a super satellite.
Let's say you are in a 500 person supersatellite and the top 50 will get a seat to another tournament. As the tournament approaches the "bubble" you are fortunate to find yourself as the chip leader. Smaller stacks are starting to go into the "fold into the top 50 spots" mode. You have one challenge, the guy who is in second place in chips is also at your table. Let's say for argument purposes that you have position on him.
This guy is also putting a lot of pressure on smaller stacks. So here is the hand example. One of the shorter stacks decides to go all in and it is folded to this guy. For some reason, he decides to go all-in. It gets folded to you and you look down to see AA.....
I don't know about you guys...but I'm folding in this spot. Why take a chance to get cracked by the big stack and get crippled?
Just my two cents.
Welcome to the club. I agree with your above scenario and have one other scenario which I will make ridiculous to make it easy to understand.
Three players left, third pays $0, second pays $500K and first pays $1M. You have 100,000 chips, player2 has 100,000 chips, player3 has 2000 chips and the blinds are 1000/2000. If player3 moves in and player2 moves in are you going to call with AA? Of course, calling is +EV but personally, I am not going to risk $500K when very soon I am going to have a guaranteed $500K and a 50/50 shot at having another $500K. That's a bankroll decision not an EV decision.
Wow, great points on those supersats! and MTT situations!...I have another to add.
You are playing a CASH GAME, NLH. Blinds $10/$20 and effective stacks in the following hand are $3000.
Full table, 9 handed and you are the cut-off.
UTG raises to $60, EP flats,MP flats and you make it $280 to go.
UTG flat calls as does EP thinks for a while and then folds, but an ace flashes as he mucks and then is exposed to the table and will be the burn card. MP calls.
There is now $280 * 3 +$60 +$10 (blinds) = $910 in the pot with you having invested $280.
Flop is K74 rainbow.
UTG bets out $320, MP tankssssssssss and EP who folded the A calls clock on him after literally 5 minutes. The dealer notifies MP that he has 30 seconds do respond or his hand will be declared dead. With 5 seconds left to respond he sighs aloud and calls.
At this point UTG pulls out a Glock and points, walks over to you and places it against your temple and EP pulls out the same pistol and tells everyone at the table to place all of their valuables on the table.
Reasoning that your AA is valuable at this point you open it and it is effectively folded for being exposed in a multi-way pot.
Super sats, one million dollar MTT bubble spots with an extreme short stack and this -- all fascinating scenarios.
Super sats, one million dollar MTT bubble spots with an extreme short stack and this -- all fascinating scenarios.
Case closed.
QED.
LOL...final tally...
1. Super sat - this makes sense, 1st place means nothing.
2. MTT with steep payout - if it's life changing money, I fold.
3. Glock - definite fold.
4 OP - quit playing poker.
> You could lay AA down here if variance would cause you extreme grief.
> For example, your rent was due tomorrow morning and was $105 and your
> last $100 was in front of you.
If this is the case, and it will lead to divorce, here's a tip:
The Ontario Problem Gaming Hotline number is 1-800-230-3505
The point of my original post was to see if anyone had stats on pre-flop vs post flop play. How much are you up or down based on all-in calls vs hands where you saw at least a flop.
Just stop...........Please! Are you still playing .05/.10 nl...like you were on Supreme last year?.............stay there.
This is interest thing i was talking to another poker buddy, he is more of gamble type, but know what he is doing (very LAG style)
say you are study your HH.
you learn that you recieve 13 AA so far, and they all hold up.
now, AA #14 just arrive
there are some crazy preflop action to you. say 4 player went all-in already.
knowning your AA is 13-0 and variance is gonna catchup to you soon or later.
do you push that AA #14?
Does this change the math? chance of AA holdup 14time weight anything in your decision making?
I'm not going to slam you because your posts on this board seem to genuinely indicate you are thinking about poker to improve your game. I'm just going to post this link Gambler's fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Please give it a read.
Comments
If you think he is trolling then you must be the king. Let's take a look at the definition:
Source:
What is an Internet Troll? (Posting Guidelines - Netiquette) What is a Forum Troll?
What is an Internet Troll/ Forum troll?
[*]An "Internet troll" or "Forum Troll" or "Message Board Troll" is a person who posts outrageous message to bait people to answer. Forum Troll delights in sowing discord on the forums. A troll is someone who inspires flaming rhetoric, someone who is purposely provoking and pulling people into flaming discussion. Flaming discussions usually end with name calling and a flame war
1. you just trolled with the definition of trolling
2. I think they were crediting the only possible motive for the OP as a desire to troll. (which is probably too kind)
Graham..your post is nucking futs!
ahhhh a new leader
My guess is that this would indicate that the OP is a solid contender for a troll post.
yea, that's correct. i know i'm getting the right math to call, but i'm never one to do the math in the heat of the moment.
but knowing me, i'd probably call regardless of what i had, simply because everyone else was going all in and because i was caught up in the moment. i'm never one to think things through fully on the poker table.
i also realised i made a couple minor mistake in my previous post, but i'm not going to go into it. i wasn't in my right state of mind, when i posted it. so i have no idea was i was trying to say.
wat?
http://www.pokerforum.ca/f58/pokerstars-awards-wrong-guy-winning-hand-omaha-15312/index3.html#post151205
is a HOF thread???
and a thread where the forum owner is trolling within a troll thread that has reached 100 responses is not in the hof?
[x] rigged
It was a dark and stormy night... well, not stormy perhaps, but dreary anyway, and it was indeed after sunset, if time can be so measured whilst at the poker table. Our hero is at Turning Stone for the weekend and is currently chasing his own money around the table. (see here the previously mentioned adjective: dreary) Said hero picks up pocket aces on the button, and proceeds to get them cracked... through no fault of his own, if I may say so. But this is not the story I have come hither to tell... although it is a fine story in its' own rite, and much may be written about it yet, but back to our tale...
The cracking of the aces, as is so common in such environments, sparks a flurry of bad beat stories, including a beaut', involving our hero's immediate neighbor, who seams eager to tell all that are held captive here by their addiction. I shall shorten the tale that was told here, and relate only the relative points... it seems our new protagonist was an the edge of leaving, up about $2000, one night, and was planning to play until his blind; a "handful of hands away", he stated! On the very last hand he is dealt, he finds the dreaded aces... He makes the obligatory raise from utg, and gets raised and then it happens... the cut-off moves in... for almost a grand... but wait, now the button moves in, and he covers our soon-to-be-free man. Now it "on him", and he agonizes, he fidgets, he whines... and he finally calls. Now of the outcome, there is no longer any doubt for those that are listening intently, which include the dealer now, and is cutting into my hands/hr, and our sympathies are with him, as the button spikes a king for the pot. He leaves broke that night... if only he could have folded AA pre-flop!
But the story does not end here... but like a winding trail up a mountain... our story now reaches its' summit, and on-topic too!
The table now erupts into a spirited discussion of whether you can fold AA pre-flop? Imagine the intense feeling of deja-vu I was now expriencing. In fact I was in such shock that I could contribute little to the fray, except for the occasional, "You're an idiot!" or, "Why? Are you allergic to money?" Yes, it was true!... I was at a loss for words!
And then I heard the most profound words that I had ever heard at a poker table. The words came forth from a quiet, older gentleman... an appropriate source it seems, for only with age does wisdom flow like a great river.
Such are his words, that the suspense must be heightened even more... For to not to do so, lessens them unfairly... The words came forth at a moments pause of the calamity of conversation, like the calm before nature unleashes her fury. At their speaking, a great moment of silence fell, and in that moment I knew I was in the presence of greatness, and so overwhelmed was I that from my stack flew forth, not the single white chip that I customarily toss in appreciation of a witty one-liner, but a red... Yes, a nickle, for so impressed was I!
Amidst all the talk of various ways of possibly folding AA pre-flop, came these words...
"If we sit here long enough, I don't doubt that I could come up with a scenario where you slept with a hooker, your own mother and a dog all at once... but that don't make it right!"
Punch line is a wee bit weak as it describes a typical Saturday night for about half of the forum.
Let's say you are in a 500 person supersatellite and the top 50 will get a seat to another tournament. As the tournament approaches the "bubble" you are fortunate to find yourself as the chip leader. Smaller stacks are starting to go into the "fold into the top 50 spots" mode. You have one challenge, the guy who is in second place in chips is also at your table. Let's say for argument purposes that you have position on him.
This guy is also putting a lot of pressure on smaller stacks. So here is the hand example. One of the shorter stacks decides to go all in and it is folded to this guy. For some reason, he decides to go all-in. It gets folded to you and you look down to see AA.....
I don't know about you guys...but I'm folding in this spot. Why take a chance to get cracked by the big stack and get crippled?
Just my two cents.
Three players left, third pays $0, second pays $500K and first pays $1M. You have 100,000 chips, player2 has 100,000 chips, player3 has 2000 chips and the blinds are 1000/2000. If player3 moves in and player2 moves in are you going to call with AA? Of course, calling is +EV but personally, I am not going to risk $500K when very soon I am going to have a guaranteed $500K and a 50/50 shot at having another $500K. That's a bankroll decision not an EV decision.
You are playing a CASH GAME, NLH. Blinds $10/$20 and effective stacks in the following hand are $3000.
Full table, 9 handed and you are the cut-off.
UTG raises to $60, EP flats,MP flats and you make it $280 to go.
UTG flat calls as does EP thinks for a while and then folds, but an ace flashes as he mucks and then is exposed to the table and will be the burn card. MP calls.
There is now $280 * 3 +$60 +$10 (blinds) = $910 in the pot with you having invested $280.
Flop is K74 rainbow.
UTG bets out $320, MP tankssssssssss and EP who folded the A calls clock on him after literally 5 minutes. The dealer notifies MP that he has 30 seconds do respond or his hand will be declared dead. With 5 seconds left to respond he sighs aloud and calls.
At this point UTG pulls out a Glock and points, walks over to you and places it against your temple and EP pulls out the same pistol and tells everyone at the table to place all of their valuables on the table.
Reasoning that your AA is valuable at this point you open it and it is effectively folded for being exposed in a multi-way pot.
Super sats, one million dollar MTT bubble spots with an extreme short stack and this -- all fascinating scenarios.
Case closed.
QED.
1. Super sat - this makes sense, 1st place means nothing.
2. MTT with steep payout - if it's life changing money, I fold.
3. Glock - definite fold.
4 OP - quit playing poker.
QEDx2
> For example, your rent was due tomorrow morning and was $105 and your
> last $100 was in front of you.
If this is the case, and it will lead to divorce, here's a tip:
The Ontario Problem Gaming Hotline number is 1-800-230-3505
Just stop...........Please! Are you still playing .05/.10 nl...like you were on Supreme last year?.............stay there.
no, I have moved down to 0.01/0.02 with my $1.56 bankroll.
I'm not going to slam you because your posts on this board seem to genuinely indicate you are thinking about poker to improve your game. I'm just going to post this link Gambler's fallacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Please give it a read.