A truly skilled player would be able to make the $900 by folding this hand and outplaying his/her opponents on later hands. Unlike the player who calls and is willing to gamble to hopefully win the hand.
This thread is a joke, right?????????
I just checked the calendar and it's not April 1.
You don't want to go all-in preflop with the best hand 10 ways? WTF are you playing the game for?
A better question is what would you FOLD in that spot, not if you would call with AA.
I can't think of a hand that I would fold in that position getting 9:1 on my money.
Either you are way under-rolled for this game or you don't understand the concept of odds.
If I'm thinking of the right player, it was because he was "backed" (or a bunch of friends shared in the buy-in) and the group decided that to them making the money was paramount.
But I could be thinking of another player though
No, I think that's him. But I can't see how being backed justifies the decision. Personally, if I had backed him, I would have been PISSED he did that.
No, I think that's him. But I can't see how being backed justifies the decision. Personally, if I had backed him, I would have been PISSED he did that.
If you are short stacked and only a few places til the money, you might want to consider this especially against a table of aggressive players. Why risk someone calling off 10% of their stack to you and drawing out? You get $0 vs. standing a reasonable chance of surviving til the bubble bursts.
Perhaps this is the passive way to play, but I can't see it being better to gamble when you are so short and down $10,000.
I know Kristy did it, but I sort of liked this one better.
I'm not going to respond to the original question as I'm fairly certain he was kidding.
You were kidding right?
Np... DrTyore's "D: Vanilla Ice"
and Johnnie H's "See you in hell one hundred dollars!" are mine as well...at least you gave me credit.
The best bet is that Jah is just missing the level of attention he got in the "Go back to school Timex" threads...but it is a split between that and him actually believing this strategy is sound.
for everybody to go all-in first, and then I am to act. If i only invest like 2bux (big blind) i did probly protect my stack by folding.
so... you are basically agreeing with jimmy then? that is bad poker. end of story. this thread is dead, etc, etc...
i'm a tight player (and that is an understatement) and have no issue folding marginally +ev situations when you have only a small (or no) investment in the pot and a huge call is required. however, this is so hugely +ev that to consider folding, even for a second, makes sklansky cry. (and he didn't even cry over brandi...)
i would fold the weakest, hmmmm maybe quarter?/fifth?/sixth? (after looking the numbers 95% lol) of my hands here (crap like 72o, 83o, 94o, etc, but i likely play any pair above 55, stronger suited connectors/gappers/aces, 2 big cards). probably giving up some ev but like i said, i doubt these hands hugely +ev compared to the risk. feel free to show me some numbers and convince me. (ok, i have some time and i did them below...)
ace-rag unsuited is likely dominated here 7 ways but i'm curious how +ev playing it here would be.
i suppose the meta game considerations should be factored in when your 72o sucks out on AA, KK and QQ, though...
largay has a section on this line of thought (getting all-in multi-ways with a horrendous hand) in his book. it is more related to the meta game than making a +ev play.
free time::::
we can argue ranges if you want but here's my suggestion for the pushers: 55+,AJo+,ATs+,KQo,KJs+. (if they are absolute action junkies, i suppose someone could take the time to broaden this considerably.)
i'm a tight player (and that is an understatement) and have no issue folding marginally +ev situations when you have only a small (or no) investment in the pot and a huge call is required. however, this is so hugely +ev that to consider folding, even for a second, makes sklansky cry. (and he didn't even cry over brandi...)
And Greg knows, I'm even tighter... Sure I'll get some comments here, but even I would NEVER consider folding this in a cash game. The only situation where I might consider it is in a tourney say where top 10 get the same prize, there are 11 left, I'm average stack and there are 3 or 4 allins before me. In this case there is nothing really to gain. Although even here if no one has me covered I probably call anyway.
I guess nobody reads English anymore. Anyone have this data available? Quite the serious bunch.
tell me how to do that in PT, i'll check it.
there is no such option
however i need to make some correction
260K sample size
1117 AA givien
AA won 89% total
but if went to showdown 71.97%
AA does not have 90% again any two card or 80% against pocket pair.....
Please tell me someone didn't poker stove this......
Even if all villains had pocket pairs KK through 55 you are 99% that someone is flopping a set and in that case your AA becomes a drawing hand.
Easy fold
that can be a correct fold, because assuming you KNOW for a fact that your opponents are holding pocket pairs from KK to 55. you only have 14 outs to win, while dodging the other 38 cards. (keep in mind that this is the WORST possible scenario)
there are only two instances that i'd fold with pocket AA preflop. the scenario above where my opponents have pocket pairs KK through 55. and/or if another one of my opponents has pocket AA as well.
however, chances are that a couple players will have pockets, and the rest will have AK, AQ, KJ, KQ, etc. so in most scenarios it'd have to be an instant call.
that can be a correct fold, because assuming you KNOW for a fact that your opponents are holding pocket pairs from KK to 55. you only have 14 outs to win, while dodging the other 38 cards. (keep in mind that this is the WORST possible scenario)
there are only two instances that i'd fold with pocket AA preflop. the scenario above where my opponents have pocket pairs KK through 55. and/or if another one of my opponents has pocket AA as well.
however, chances are that a couple players will have pockets, and the rest will have AK, AQ, KJ, KQ, etc. so in most scenarios it'd have to be an instant call.
I guess nobody reads English anymore. Anyone have this data available? Quite the serious bunch.
ok. here's data for you... i just sit down in the BB in a 5/5 game at fallsview with a mixture of crazy asians and internet lagtards. first guy goes all in for 425. i'm looking at him like he is an idiot. i mean there was a whole 10 bucks in tht pot! the other guys start laughing and shaking their heads at 'Frankie'.
next guy looks at his cards and thinks for like 5 minutes and he goes all-in for less. third guy looks like a rammer jammer and pushes all-in for 1200 without even looking. that sets off a cascade of guys laughing and calling. it gets to me with 9 players all-in. the main pot is over 4000 with one side pot of 1000+ and another with almost 2000.
of course i look down and find AA and, believe it or not, push. rammer jammer hits 2pr on the flop with 74o but i catch an ace on the turn to 'suck out'. i win 4k+ and the rammer jammer takes down the rest for over 2500. 'Frankie' had A3s. the next guy had TT. the others had an assortment of pocket pairs, suited connectors and big cards.
then i woke up. back to reality, jimmy. how many real life situations do you expect to get into with a 10-way all-in and you've got AA? like, over your life, maybe 0 (assuming you aren't into flipaments)? you may be lucky enough to find a case where you get all-in 4-ways PF with AA once in a while. you might lose 2 in a row or even 20. that's poker. as long as you are playing within your bankroll it shouldn't bother you. you still keep on calling. every friggin time. when they beat you with that 53s just keep smiling.
unfortunately, these things don't come up often enough for you to get an accurate picture of how +ev these situations are. that's why pokerstove is our friend. you can run these situations millions of times to get the true expected value. you can trust pokerstove. it is the player's friend.
i did see AA get all-in PF against KK the other day and KK rivered a set. this hasn't changed my willingness to call an all-in with AA PF...
And to add to Greg's comments, although these were both tournament play.
1st situation at Buzzards tournament maybe 6 weeks ago, carmaker pushes allin for half my stack, Buzzards repushes for more than my stack, I wake up in the BB with AA. Do I fold, of course not, I call. Carmaker has KK, Buzzzard and I both have AA, of course the KK trips up and cripples me.
2nd situation at the Ryder a month ago, captains table, short stack in early position pushes, mid position repushes for slightly kess than my stack, it comes around to the SB (stpboy) he calls for about something less than the mid position push. I again wake up in the BB with AA. Do I fold, of course not, I call. First pusher has 77, mid position has 99, stpboy has AA same as myself. Mid position 99 trips up and again I am crippled.
Would I do the same thing again? Of course I would, in a heartbeat. Point is the upside far outweighs the downside, ie big stack and a good chance to get 1st.
LOL, now both of these were only about 2 weeks apart so hopefully I'm going to win the next couple to balance things out.
And to add to Greg's comments, although these were both tournament play.
1st situation at Buzzards tournament maybe 6 weeks ago, carmaker pushes allin for half my stack, Buzzards repushes for more than my stack, I wake up in the BB with AA. Do I fold, of course not, I call. Carmaker has KK, Buzzzard and I both have AA, of course the KK trips up and cripples me.
2nd situation at the Ryder a month ago, captains table, short stack in early position pushes, mid position repushes for slightly kess than my stack, it comes around to the SB (stpboy) he calls for about something less than the mid position push. I again wake up in the BB with AA. Do I fold, of course not, I call. First pusher has 77, mid position has 99, stpboy has AA same as myself. Mid position 99 trips up and again I am crippled.
Would I do the same thing again? Of course I would, in a heartbeat. Point is the upside far outweighs the downside, ie big stack and a good chance to get 1st.
LOL, now both of these were only about 2 weeks apart so hopefully I'm going to win the next couple to balance things out.
This is interest thing i was talking to another poker buddy, he is more of gamble type, but know what he is doing (very LAG style)
say you are study your HH.
you learn that you recieve 13 AA so far, and they all hold up.
now, AA #14 just arrive
there are some crazy preflop action to you. say 4 player went all-in already.
knowning your AA is 13-0 and variance is gonna catchup to you soon or later.
do you push that AA #14?
Does this change the math? chance of AA holdup 14time weight anything in your decision making?
This is interest thing i was talking to another poker buddy, he is more of gamble type, but know what he is doing (very LAG style)
say you are study your HH.
you learn that you recieve 13 AA so far, and they all hold up.
now, AA #14 just arrive
there are some crazy preflop action to you. say 4 player went all-in already.
knowning your AA is 13-0 and variance is gonna catchup to you soon or later.
do you push that AA #14?
Does this change the math? chance of AA holdup 14time weight anything in your decision making?
Absolutely not! Each is an individual event, what happened in the past does not affect what happens on the current hand. That's even more foolish than Jah's reasoning...
Comments
This thread is a joke, right?????????
I just checked the calendar and it's not April 1.
You don't want to go all-in preflop with the best hand 10 ways? WTF are you playing the game for?
A better question is what would you FOLD in that spot, not if you would call with AA.
I can't think of a hand that I would fold in that position getting 9:1 on my money.
Either you are way under-rolled for this game or you don't understand the concept of odds.
Ah...much better
word...
... so the question is what hand can you FOLD in that position in a cash game???
I'm thinking if I were dealt the cut-card and a deuce I may let it go.
No, I think that's him. But I can't see how being backed justifies the decision. Personally, if I had backed him, I would have been PISSED he did that.
/g2
If you are short stacked and only a few places til the money, you might want to consider this especially against a table of aggressive players. Why risk someone calling off 10% of their stack to you and drawing out? You get $0 vs. standing a reasonable chance of surviving til the bubble bursts.
Perhaps this is the passive way to play, but I can't see it being better to gamble when you are so short and down $10,000.
+1
I'm not going to respond to the original question as I'm fairly certain he was kidding.
You were kidding right?
Np... DrTyore's "D: Vanilla Ice"
and Johnnie H's "See you in hell one hundred dollars!" are mine as well...at least you gave me credit.
The best bet is that Jah is just missing the level of attention he got in the "Go back to school Timex" threads...but it is a split between that and him actually believing this strategy is sound.
both make me refer you to my earlier post.
Preflop, a pocket pair even a big one like AA only has 2 outs to improve. The unpaired cards can much easier make straights, flushes and two pair.
I can't believe some you people. Morans.
a) troll posts
or
b) being so stupid that in using the forum he poses a great risk of impaling himself with his keyboard
so... you are basically agreeing with jimmy then? that is bad poker. end of story. this thread is dead, etc, etc...
i'm a tight player (and that is an understatement) and have no issue folding marginally +ev situations when you have only a small (or no) investment in the pot and a huge call is required. however, this is so hugely +ev that to consider folding, even for a second, makes sklansky cry. (and he didn't even cry over brandi...)
i would fold the weakest, hmmmm maybe quarter?/fifth?/sixth? (after looking the numbers 95% lol) of my hands here (crap like 72o, 83o, 94o, etc, but i likely play any pair above 55, stronger suited connectors/gappers/aces, 2 big cards). probably giving up some ev but like i said, i doubt these hands hugely +ev compared to the risk. feel free to show me some numbers and convince me. (ok, i have some time and i did them below...)
ace-rag unsuited is likely dominated here 7 ways but i'm curious how +ev playing it here would be.
i suppose the meta game considerations should be factored in when your 72o sucks out on AA, KK and QQ, though...
largay has a section on this line of thought (getting all-in multi-ways with a horrendous hand) in his book. it is more related to the meta game than making a +ev play.
free time::::
we can argue ranges if you want but here's my suggestion for the pushers: 55+,AJo+,ATs+,KQo,KJs+. (if they are absolute action junkies, i suppose someone could take the time to broaden this considerably.)
for jimmy:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 18.625% 18.00% 00.63% 32351 1127.10 { AA }
Hand 1: 08.996% 08.68% 00.32% 15594 575.27 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 09.088% 08.76% 00.32% 15754 582.02 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 3: 08.955% 08.60% 00.35% 15461 635.85 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 4: 09.055% 08.73% 00.33% 15691 585.18 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 5: 09.088% 08.75% 00.34% 15730 605.68 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 6: 09.024% 08.69% 00.33% 15620 600.18 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 7: 09.041% 08.69% 00.35% 15626 624.35 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 8: 09.058% 08.73% 00.32% 15700 582.02 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 9: 09.070% 08.73% 00.34% 15695 608.35 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
almost 19% of the time you win 902
bit more than 81% you lose 98
hugely +ev
now, gta what ranges should you call with?
top 75% of your range is significantly -ev:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 07.191% 06.74% 00.45% 316906 20970.43 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J2s+, T2s+, 92s+, 83s+, 73s+, 63s+, 52s+, 43s, A2o+, K2o+, Q2o+, J4o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 75o+, 65o }
Hand 1: 10.328% 09.75% 00.58% 458085 27184.85 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 10.333% 09.75% 00.58% 458186 27314.52 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 3: 10.310% 09.73% 00.58% 457133 27287.43 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 4: 10.306% 09.73% 00.58% 457001 27235.60 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 5: 10.319% 09.74% 00.58% 457627 27239.02 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 6: 10.291% 09.71% 00.58% 456236 27297.27 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 7: 10.293% 09.71% 00.58% 456338 27296.52 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 8: 10.323% 09.74% 00.58% 457820 27242.93 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 9: 10.306% 09.73% 00.58% 457091 27163.43 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
surprisingly, top 50% is even more -ev (i don't get it):
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 06.947% 06.51% 00.44% 525618 35145.43 { 33+, A2s+, K2s+, Q2s+, J4s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q7o+, J7o+, T8o+, 98o }
Hand 1: 10.306% 09.74% 00.56% 786403 45545.68 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 10.346% 09.78% 00.56% 789615 45499.68 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 3: 10.354% 09.79% 00.57% 790130 45677.77 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 4: 10.349% 09.78% 00.57% 789676 45728.18 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 5: 10.330% 09.76% 00.57% 787984 45909.85 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 6: 10.344% 09.78% 00.57% 789304 45661.52 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 7: 10.344% 09.78% 00.56% 789450 45567.27 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 8: 10.350% 09.78% 00.57% 789842 45626.68 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 9: 10.330% 09.76% 00.57% 788059 45761.93 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
top 25% doesn't do much better:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 07.242% 06.79% 00.45% 534238 35549.00 { 66+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, A7o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 1: 10.308% 09.76% 00.54% 768330 42752.25 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 10.327% 09.79% 00.54% 769938 42581.33 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 3: 10.310% 09.77% 00.54% 768667 42508.42 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 4: 10.305% 09.76% 00.54% 767918 42878.33 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 5: 10.296% 09.75% 00.54% 767538 42614.25 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 6: 10.298% 09.76% 00.54% 767765 42509.50 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 7: 10.309% 09.77% 00.54% 768682 42470.50 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 8: 10.310% 09.77% 00.54% 768382 42836.67 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 9: 10.295% 09.75% 00.54% 767358 42713.75 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
top 10% is marginally -ev (which makes sense since you are up against 9 other players playing hands they for some reason think are worth jamming...)
top 5% shows a decent +ev:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 12.383% 11.86% 00.52% 634636 27909.08 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
Hand 1: 09.740% 09.24% 00.50% 494185 26931.17 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 09.728% 09.23% 00.50% 493764 26736.17 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 3: 09.715% 09.21% 00.50% 493022 26753.25 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 4: 09.743% 09.24% 00.50% 494460 26832.33 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 5: 09.755% 09.25% 00.50% 495058 26855.33 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 6: 09.730% 09.23% 00.50% 493802 26813.00 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 7: 09.721% 09.22% 00.50% 493425 26697.33 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 8: 09.750% 09.25% 00.50% 494729 26926.25 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 9: 09.736% 09.23% 00.50% 494041 26866.08 { 55+, ATs+, KJs+, AJo+, KQo }
on average over the long term, i guess that would make you around 25 bucks and you are risking 98. pretty good i suppose.
feel free to post some ranges and numbers to go along with your thoughts...
Even if all villains had pocket pairs KK through 55 you are 99% that someone is flopping a set and in that case your AA becomes a drawing hand.
Easy fold
Yeah, but have TWO nut flush draws...so you have to consider calling
Do we really have to make this thread any dumber?
Assuming you don't play short-stack poker, what would be your stats for all-in preflop in a cash game? THINK about it.
Glad to see you managed to cheat both severe injury and death for another day by not impaling yourself on common household objects.
there is no such option
however i need to make some correction
260K sample size
1117 AA givien
AA won 89% total
but if went to showdown 71.97%
AA does not have 90% again any two card or 80% against pocket pair.....
there are only two instances that i'd fold with pocket AA preflop. the scenario above where my opponents have pocket pairs KK through 55. and/or if another one of my opponents has pocket AA as well.
however, chances are that a couple players will have pockets, and the rest will have AK, AQ, KJ, KQ, etc. so in most scenarios it'd have to be an instant call.
Good point.
ok. here's data for you... i just sit down in the BB in a 5/5 game at fallsview with a mixture of crazy asians and internet lagtards. first guy goes all in for 425. i'm looking at him like he is an idiot. i mean there was a whole 10 bucks in tht pot! the other guys start laughing and shaking their heads at 'Frankie'.
next guy looks at his cards and thinks for like 5 minutes and he goes all-in for less. third guy looks like a rammer jammer and pushes all-in for 1200 without even looking. that sets off a cascade of guys laughing and calling. it gets to me with 9 players all-in. the main pot is over 4000 with one side pot of 1000+ and another with almost 2000.
of course i look down and find AA and, believe it or not, push. rammer jammer hits 2pr on the flop with 74o but i catch an ace on the turn to 'suck out'. i win 4k+ and the rammer jammer takes down the rest for over 2500. 'Frankie' had A3s. the next guy had TT. the others had an assortment of pocket pairs, suited connectors and big cards.
then i woke up. back to reality, jimmy. how many real life situations do you expect to get into with a 10-way all-in and you've got AA? like, over your life, maybe 0 (assuming you aren't into flipaments)? you may be lucky enough to find a case where you get all-in 4-ways PF with AA once in a while. you might lose 2 in a row or even 20. that's poker. as long as you are playing within your bankroll it shouldn't bother you. you still keep on calling. every friggin time. when they beat you with that 53s just keep smiling.
unfortunately, these things don't come up often enough for you to get an accurate picture of how +ev these situations are. that's why pokerstove is our friend. you can run these situations millions of times to get the true expected value. you can trust pokerstove. it is the player's friend.
i did see AA get all-in PF against KK the other day and KK rivered a set. this hasn't changed my willingness to call an all-in with AA PF...
1st situation at Buzzards tournament maybe 6 weeks ago, carmaker pushes allin for half my stack, Buzzards repushes for more than my stack, I wake up in the BB with AA. Do I fold, of course not, I call. Carmaker has KK, Buzzzard and I both have AA, of course the KK trips up and cripples me.
2nd situation at the Ryder a month ago, captains table, short stack in early position pushes, mid position repushes for slightly kess than my stack, it comes around to the SB (stpboy) he calls for about something less than the mid position push. I again wake up in the BB with AA. Do I fold, of course not, I call. First pusher has 77, mid position has 99, stpboy has AA same as myself. Mid position 99 trips up and again I am crippled.
Would I do the same thing again? Of course I would, in a heartbeat. Point is the upside far outweighs the downside, ie big stack and a good chance to get 1st.
LOL, now both of these were only about 2 weeks apart so hopefully I'm going to win the next couple to balance things out.
say you are study your HH.
you learn that you recieve 13 AA so far, and they all hold up.
now, AA #14 just arrive
there are some crazy preflop action to you. say 4 player went all-in already.
knowning your AA is 13-0 and variance is gonna catchup to you soon or later.
do you push that AA #14?
Does this change the math? chance of AA holdup 14time weight anything in your decision making?
I can't believe it, but this thread keeps getting stupider and stupider.
I assume that pokerjah hasn't chimed-in lately due to him having the ESC key surgically removed from his abdomen last night