Poker club = Gateway drug?
I know this could potentially be a controversial topic but I'm throwing it out there for discussion. Mature discussion that is.
I was wondering what would happen if the police did a major crack down on all illegal clubs. What would happen to those that ran the clubs? Would they learn the lesson and get honest jobs? Would they turn to another illegal activity that may endanger the communities way more then poker clubs would? Would police then actually be doing a disservice to the community by cracking down on all of these clubs?
Basically are poker clubs just a gateway to other illegal activity?
stp
I was wondering what would happen if the police did a major crack down on all illegal clubs. What would happen to those that ran the clubs? Would they learn the lesson and get honest jobs? Would they turn to another illegal activity that may endanger the communities way more then poker clubs would? Would police then actually be doing a disservice to the community by cracking down on all of these clubs?
Basically are poker clubs just a gateway to other illegal activity?
stp
Comments
In all seriousness, I do not believe guys who get busted for running poker clubs will become drug dealers.
What would these club owners do if they were busted? Is the fact that illegal clubs are so accepted (on this forum at least) clouding the fact that it is illegal? I think it's ludicrous to think that speeding is a gateway to stealing cars. When one speeds, there every waking hour is not consumed by what, when, who they are speeding with and how much profit they will make doing it.
stp
Is this more relevant: is a 19-year-old geek who hacks financial institutions stealing money to make their livelihood likely to start committing armed robbery at these same banks to make a living? They're both stealing from banks as their job - do you think that this geek is likely to turn Rambo? A crime is a crime, yes, but different crimes require far different motivations and psychological makeups. Some club owners may decide to deal, but I don't think that makes it likely - it depends on the individual.
And the forum does cloud things, but even in the "outside world", many consider poker a grey area, while drug-dealing is clear-cut, so by your own "relevance-meter" I think that requires a bit of a stretch...
It may not be the #1 priority for the police, but the busts at the Kingston and other bars, International Poker Tour events, etc. prove that there are resources allocated to busting illegal raked gambling houses.
Many do not have a problem with those who grow marijuana and some even press for the legalization of said drug and prostitution.
That doesnt make these grey area activities.
Civilizations function because as a society we obey laws.
Even Socrates drank his hemlock.
I do however fail to see any direct causal relationship between this activity and others.
stp
This seems to be going into a different direction than the OP. It seems you are bitter with people running clubs, regardless of the legality. How many people "wasted years" during the dot-com era, and what are they doing now? Personally, I think being involved in a fast-growing market (even if it's only for a few years since it's a fad) is smart.
I wonder how many fly-by-night web programmers get UI. Or under-the-table construction workers. This happens in plenty of areas, not just for poker club owners.
Yeah, it does sound a bit cynical. It also sounds very disjointed, as your comments have gone from legality, to waste of time, to UI. Are you simply angry at some anonymous club owner...
As for the small time guy running a club that gets busted. They will probably just start anouther, I doubt they'll turn to dealing (drugs that is) or other things. There are some that may chose to but I can't make a general statement and say they all will.
Now the argument about legalizing all these clubs is another point. Gambling is legal. Do it at a government approved place. What's the problem? If you want smaller games then don't charge a rake. Getting all bent out of shape because the government doesn't want these illegal games making untaxed dollars without any sort of regulation is absurd.
When you talk about being addicted to the "rush" of illegality, well then sure, they may continue to other illegal activities, perhaps they have Oppositional Definacy disorder? Regardless, there are two questions here
A: Does running a club (i.e. being in charge of an organized game of poker that is taking a rake) lead one to further illegal activities?
My answer: No, if someone is a tournament director in a casino and is fired, they don't go sell crack.
B: Does a person's personality traits, index or what have you tend to guide them towards occupations that may have a degree of danger or risk?
My answer: Absolutely. But not necessarily poker / illegal things. There's plenty of dangerous jobs out there - daredevils, firefighters, police officers, bouncers and bodyguards, Mel Gibson's publicist.... whatever!
Mark
Actually I know numerous people who have followed this exact path in life.
Crap. My bad
No, I do not think running a poker club is a 'gateway drug' at all. It may be true that a lot of guys (or girls) who run illegal poker clubs are also involved in illegal activity (or have been in the past or will be in the future). I have no idea if that is true... no offence intended to anyone. I personally think that the illegality of poker clubs falls into the category of laws that a lot of people don't take seriously. Included on this list may be things like smoking marijuana, speeding, and cannibalism (wait maybe not cannabalism). My point is, if people are doing something technically illegal, but they don't view it as being all that bad, then doing one of these things will not lead them to do something that is really illegal.
I apologize for my lack of making sense... but there's no law against it suckers!
/g2
Now the truth comes out. I knew when this thread was started it was directed at me.
I am glad your so concerned about my wasted years.
Prophet :2h :2s
Brent, Brent, Brent....
Not everything is about you. I wanted to have this mature discussion about something that I find very interesting. Mark hit the nail on the head with his comments about what I meant. I'm really just throwing discussion topics out there and replying as they come along.
As far as me feeling poorly about some club owner, farthest thing from the truth. i don't play at illegal clubs. The only issue I would have would be people that run these clubs and collect UI, I would think that most would find that immoral. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it though.
I think some on this forum can have an intelligent debate without personalizing everything. I wish more could do this. I don't believe I ever made direct comments about all club owners being bad people. I was just proposing one possible theory of many, one that it seems evoked some intelligent discussion. I still appreciate the comments, keep them coming.
Once again though, Brent this has nothing to do with you. You are not a club owner nor are you a criminal IMO. I do sometimes think that you may be a bit paranoid though, I may have some access to drugs if you'd like
stp
/g2
LOL
stp
I think the UI issue is really a sub-set of the OP but like I said, it's nothing I'm going to lose sleep over. The only reason this is specifically directed at poker is because, well, this is a poker forum. We discuss issues related to poker lol. Trevor, for a person that is so cut and dry on a number of issues I'm surprised that you're so liberal in regards to this one. No offense meant, just an observation.
stp
/g2
I don't think that has any relevance to the question that was posed. Lots of people to a lot of things that are illegal. We are discussing one. People working under the table and on EI or on Disability are ruining the system but that's not relevant to running an illegal club and what type of person runs one.
I don't play at illegal clubs but I don't care too much if others run them or play at them. That's a choice they make. If they get busted I am not going to feel bad for them or protest the arrest. I do think there are bigger things that the police need to address rather than illegal games but that is for an off-topic thread.
As far as the OP, poker being a gateway, I honestly think that's ridiculous. So far the points making it seem possible are generally applicable, and there is nothing "poker-specific" that just general statements that could apply to any number of people inside or outside poker. I know this is a poker forum so we discuss poker, but I'm assuming you are asking if a poker club owner is MORE likely to deal drugs than somebody who doesn't run a poker club. Assuming other factors are similar (they have the same predisposition to breaking the law, etc. - all the points discussed), I do not think the addition of running a club changes the likelihood one bit for the same "type" of person. But that's just my opinion...
I think there are parts of the discussion that have less valid points to them, it could be inferred that they are ridiculous. Â I still do wonder if taking the clubs off the streets would be a disservice to the community. Â I know club owners and drug dealers are two different breeds of people but what happens to drug dealers when they are caught on to by police and have to find a different profession? Â
Another note in regards to the bolded quote above. Â I know I used the term 'gateway' which usually refers to marijuana and other introductory drugs for drug dealers but what I meant was that running an illegal business (poker club) can be a gateway into other illegal activities not just drug dealing. Â I think most saw this point but I just wanted to clarify it. Â
stp
Shopsy, I'm at work. Damn I wish I had a poker game to get to....Perhaps Marks on my way home.
stp
Now back to your regularly scheduled card game.