I’ll start it off, I have my bullet proof vest on folks, as long as you treat me with respect, We can have a great conversation. I’m not an anti-Vaxxer or troll like some people on here, but I don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Be gentle, I haven’t had my morning smoke, 3 cups of Coffee or my double fat breakfast sandwich yet.
I’ll start it off, I have my bullet proof vest on folks, as long as you treat me with respect, We can have a great conversation. I’m not an anti-Vaxxer or troll like some people on here, but I don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Be gentle, I haven’t had my morning smoke, 3 cups of Coffee or my double fat breakfast sandwich yet.
Ideally, I completely agree with you. However, we don't live in an ideal world sadly. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have people refusing to take a completely safe and free vaccination that has proven to curb serious symptoms and prevent most deaths from a dangerous virus. Also, ideally we wouldn't have to worry about people who refuse the vaccine for whatever reason spreading the virus to others if they actually would isolate if they had symptoms, but many anti-vaxxers refuse to do that also (because, for example, "the virus is a hoax" arguments). On top of that, there is proof that you can have the virus and pass it to others even though you do not show any signs of symptoms. There have literally been people dying in the hospital who have spread the virus to other family members who have already died from it and they are still stating that they have no regrets not getting vaccinated.
Therefore, due to these anti-vaxxers complete denial and pro-vaxxers having literally no way to force anti-vaxxers to protect themselves (and hence everyone else around them), pro-vaxxers only respite is something like a vaccine passport.
Again, I completely agree with you. I don't like the idea of having to share my medical history with people as it is none of their business. However, when it comes down to this is literally the best way to try and protect human life and there are no other meaningful alternatives, then I'll deal with having to share my medical history for vaccinations. I'm all for considering alternatives, but I just can't think of any.
I don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Nailed it. I'm absolutely shocked at how comfortable many people are with creating a "SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING PAPERS" approach to participating in society. It's short term thinking at best.
I don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Nailed it. I'm absolutely shocked at how comfortable many people are with creating a "SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING PAPERS" approach to participating in society. It's short term thinking at best.
I actually agree with you too. It is short term thinking because in the short term, people are dying from the virus right now and pro-vaxxers are trying to do whatever they can to stop that from happening. Also consider the covid variants that are coming about due to the anti-vax community spreading the virus between each other - another issue that is happening in the short term that we need to try and stop.
EDIT: Again, for the record, I do not like the idea of covid passports, but what is the alternative? Just let anti-vaxxers keep spreading the virus to everyone in large public areas?
Sorry but it IS my business and right to know if you are vaxxed or not if I am going to spend any time indoors with you. Although I and my adult children, as well as older grandchildren, are vaxxed the younger ones are not. The chances of me unknowingly picking it up and passing it on to one of them is significantly increased if I associated with someone unvaccinated for any significant period of time. I certainly will not knowingly sit at a poker table with someone who is not vaccinated. These are just facts not my opinion.
As for people knowing my my medical history, bullshit, all it shows is one vaccine completion, nothing more. What the heck are we afraid of. We have had to show our kids vaccinations for so many other diseases pre school, what's the difference?
I don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Nailed it. I'm absolutely shocked at how comfortable many people are with creating a "SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING PAPERS" approach to participating in society. It's short term thinking at best.
If I may add. I hate the whole, “I’m vaxxed, double poke” movement. Reminds me of that social media program for American voters. “I voted” GOOD FOR YOU. Something to post to draw attention to themselves.
Also I suspect that both of you, bfillmaf and torontotablecpt, are vaccinated but just object to having to "prove" it as you are both educated guys who aren't easily brainwashed. What I really don't understand is why the concern with only showing this specific part of your medical history. Are you concerned about a slippery slope, which I certainly understand as I have a bit of that concern as well.
I really hope I’m wrong and I’ll be happy to take the ridicule months and years down the line, but because cdc ok’d it I’m still not running out to get it.
Clever people might say, “if you’re around”. Fair enough. But I’ll take my chances with a 98%+ survival rate.
I’m also upset at the whole get double vaxxed with what ever manufacture vaccine. I know some people who can’t travel cause they took the “cocktail”. It’s too soon for this vaccine. It’s too soon for any long term evidence. It might “solve” this covid thing but who know what it causes down the line.
When has anything the government got involved with end well.
I really hope I’m wrong and I’ll be happy to take the ridicule months and years down the line, but because cdc ok’d it I’m still not running out to get it.
Clever people might say, “if you’re around”. Fair enough. But I’ll take my chances with a 98%+ survival rate.
I’m also upset at the whole get double vaxxed with what ever manufacture vaccine. I know some people who can’t travel cause they took the “cocktail”. It’s too soon for this vaccine. It’s too soon for any long term evidence. It might “solve” this covid thing but who know what it causes down the line.
When has anything the government got involved with end well.
Again though, it's not just about you and your survival. You can spread it to others and kill them also.
Sorry but it IS my business and right to know if you are vaxxed or not if I am going to spend any time indoors with you. Although I and my adult children, as well as older grandchildren, are vaxxed the younger ones are not. The chances of me unknowingly picking it up and passing it on to one of them is significantly increased if I associated with someone unvaccinated for any significant period of time. I certainly will not knowingly sit at a poker table with someone who is not vaccinated. These are just facts not my opinion.
What are you worried about? You’re vaxxed?
I know my arguments are rudimentary and old and I’m not a doctor, but isn’t the simplest answer usually correct.
So you’re willing to write of family? What about a family member we who has herpes or hep_-a etc. Gross. how dare you interact with me. What about a family member who can’t take the vaccine for whatever reason?
As for people knowing my my medical history, bullshit, all it shows is one vaccine completion, nothing more. What the heck are we afraid of. We have had to show our kids vaccinations for so many other diseases pre school, what's the difference?
But where does it stop comp. next is booster shots etc. Government, media and pharma are building an us vs you dilemma/situation.
Remember this is not Ebola or small pox or something that would kill you instantly or have a higher transmission rate.wash your hands , don’t touch you’re face, shower, don’t be gross and it will be ok.
It is not just the survival rate but the long term effects of this thing for some people, and not just someone who has preexisting conditions. I have a long term client of mine, late 40's, no known conditions etc. Played lots of sports ran 5k 3 times a week, caught and was diagnosed with Covid I believe last April and is still fighting the effects. Apparently his lung capacity is only about 60% of what it was. Also he was not a smoker. I know this is ancedotal as he is only one person but why take that chance?
With Delta we are certainly starting to see more and more young children affected as well. Who knows the long term effects on them. What will happen with schools opening?
The irony of it all is that the people refusing to get the COVID vaccination are the reason all these rules are being made and they are the only ones complaining about... Look at the mirror!!! You are the reason they exist, but you are the only one complaining about them. Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy to complain about. You made your decision for what ever reason you felt was valid now deal with the consequences of those decision. IMO I don't think their OHIP coverage should be renewed if you didn't get the shots. You want to live in Canada and get all the rights but then put everyone else at risk fill up the hospitals so legit people getting sick cant find beds deal with your decisions. A government shouldn't HAVE to force medication on its people and these people are the exact ones that are causing it to be a forced issues and laws needing to be made. If you refuse to be a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem and lay in the bed you have made for yourself. And Again I will restate, "there is no conversation to be had any more". The science is there, if they choose to ignore it, nothing we say will ever change their minds as we are just repeating what smarter people then us have already concluded so the only option we have left is shaming them.
@torontotablecpt I agree with you that I shouldn't have to share my medical history with others but here we are and the reason.. because others won't protect their neighbors. Our generation never had to go to war, our generations call to arms was to sit on our ass and do nothing and get vaccinated to keep our country safe. My grandpas generation had parts of their bodies blown off, had to kill people, left their families and if they returned never returned the same person families were destroyed, all to keep our country safe and to give these people the right to stand on the ground they are standing on today. They have forced this situation upon us and now we have no other choice but to do it to be safe. I have no respect for someone that choose to be a coward while the rest of us are doing what is right. it sickens me and makes me so frustrated we even have to have this conversation it also scares the crap out of me how many people are not in this together.
Also I suspect that both of you, bfillmaf and torontotablecpt, are vaccinated but just object to having to "prove" it as you are both educated guys who aren't easily brainwashed. What I really don't understand is why the concern with only showing this specific part of your medical history. Are you concerned about a slippery slope, which I certainly understand as I have a bit of that concern as well.
Haha. Respectfully it’s none of your business. Really. But I like you even though we’ve never met.
I get the whole be human do it for the community thing. But man , everyone is running out to get these vaccines so that they can “return to normal”. Yes it’s a slippery slope Not passing conspiracy theories around, but what is next? Some other variant? Then lock down again.
Legit question for you all. Do masks really work?
I really don’t mind wearing them to be honest. Hide peoples nasty ass breath and teeth. (Me included)
Why is there not accountability either with the manufacturer or the government if anything goes wrong with this vaccine? Doesn’t that scare people?
As of last week they now came out and said it’s safe for pregnant women. What’s next kids? With less than 2 years study.
I have asked my doctor what he thinks off the record. Reply with Less than 2 years Study I would not recommend to patients/general public. For my family not less than 5 years. Pretty interesting.
I don’t think it’s anyones business if someone is vaxxed or not. Period. End of story.
Nailed it. I'm absolutely shocked at how comfortable many people are with creating a "SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING PAPERS" approach to participating in society. It's short term thinking at best.
I actually agree with you too. It is short term thinking because in the short term, people are dying from the virus right now and pro-vaxxers are trying to do whatever they can to stop that from happening. Also consider the covid variants that are coming about due to the anti-vax community spreading the virus between each other - another issue that is happening in the short term that we need to try and stop.
EDIT: Again, for the record, I do not like the idea of covid passports, but what is the alternative? Just let anti-vaxxers keep spreading the virus to everyone in large public areas?
Here’s one that I’m on the fence about too. I’m really not trying to sound insensitive because to be honest, I have not had an extended family member get covid and thus not extremely sick bed ridden. It’s like poker, so I’m going to assume y’all will get it. Take emotion out of it. The numbers are no more worse than flu deaths in previous years. Interesting how no one dies of the flu nowadays huh? I mean you’re going all in at 99% trying to fade a one outer. Anyone folding?
Again though, it's not just about you and your survival. You can spread it to others and kill them also.
That seems to be based on the assumption that it's the "anti-vaxxers" that are the ones spreading it. I get it that it's a convenient way to explain it, but the reality is that it looks like everyone will eventually be exposed to this thing, and the choice is just whether you want to experience it with or without the benefit of the vaccine.
Even the Vaccine Gestapo people are starting to backpedal... "We never said it will stop transmission, we need to force this so we don't overwhelm the hospitals" ... which takes us full circle as we enter yet another year of "15 days to flatten the curve."
If someone can show, clearly, how it stops the spread, I think some of the more hesitant folks may come around... but the line in the sand is in forcing them, which includes basing elements of society on a system of proof. As TTC says: Period. End of Story.
The irony of it all is that the people refusing to get the COVID vaccination are the reason all these rules are being made and they are the only ones complaining about... Look at the mirror!!! You are the reason they exist, but you are the only one complaining about them. Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy to complain about. You made your decision for what ever reason you felt was valid now deal with the consequences of those decision. IMO I don't think their OHIP coverage should be renewed if you didn't get the shots. You want to live in Canada and get all the rights but then put everyone else at risk fill up the hospitals so legit people getting sick cant find beds deal with your decisions. A government shouldn't HAVE to force medication on its people and these people are the exact ones that are causing it to be a forced issues and laws needing to be made. If you refuse to be a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem and lay in the bed you have made for yourself. And Again I will restate, "there is no conversation to be had any more". The science is there, if they choose to ignore it, nothing we say will ever change their minds as we are just repeating what smarter people then us have already concluded so the only option we have left is shaming them.
@torontotablecpt I agree with you that I shouldn't have to share my medical history with others but here we are and the reason.. because others won't protect their neighbors. Our generation never had to go to war, our generations call to arms was to sit on our ass and do nothing and get vaccinated to keep our country safe. My grandpas generation had parts of their bodies blown off, had to kill people, left their families and if they returned never returned the same person families were destroyed, all to keep our country safe and to give these people the right to stand on the ground they are standing on today. They have forced this situation upon us and now we have no other choice but to do it to be safe. I have no respect for someone that choose to be a coward while the rest of us are doing what is right. it sickens me and makes me so frustrated we even have to have this conversation it also scares the crap out of me how many people are not in this together.
Rant over..
When the rest of your freedoms are taken away, look in the mirror, you have no one else to blame but you. V for vendetta is a great movie to watch right now.
“How did this happen? Who's to blame? certainly there are those who are more responsible than others. And they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you”
Never said it's the anti vaxxers that are the only ones spreading it, anyone vaccinated or not can carry it but the odds are much better, would you rather have a one outer to win or better than 50/50? I know I won't change either of your minds as I am not an authority but I have seen it's effects for real and it is not pretty. Make your own choice, I have made mine...
P.S. I sure hope we get this behind us Andrew, I sure would still like that road trip to your beautiful province before I get too old..
Never said it's the anti vaxxers that are the only ones spreading it, anyone vaccinated or not can carry it but the odds are much better, would you rather have a one outer to win or better than 50/50? I know I won't change either of your minds as I am not an authority but I have seen it's effects for real and it is not pretty. Make your own choice, I have made mine...
P.S. I sure hope we get this behind us Andrew, I sure would still like that road trip to your beautiful province before I get too old..
All respect... Jeff.
Thanks Jeff. We’re trying to make our own choice, but society won’t let us.
Sorry but it IS my business and right to know if you are vaxxed or not if I am going to spend any time indoors with you. Although I and my adult children, as well as older grandchildren, are vaxxed the younger ones are not. The chances of me unknowingly picking it up and passing it on to one of them is significantly increased if I associated with someone unvaccinated for any significant period of time. I certainly will not knowingly sit at a poker table with someone who is not vaccinated. These are just facts not my opinion.
As for people knowing my my medical history, bullshit, all it shows is one vaccine completion, nothing more. What the heck are we afraid of. We have had to show our kids vaccinations for so many other diseases pre school, what's the difference?
I have to disagree. It certainly is not your business. Either you feel safe going out in the world vaccinated or not. If you fear picking up the virus and bringing it home then you shouldn't be going out. The vaccine is not your personal shield from transmitting the virus. Nor is a vaccinated person any less likely to have come into contact with the virus. Either you accept the risks or you don't.
The difference is Comp, that schooling is mandatory, whether at a public school, private school or home school. Medical information is shared with someone that can be trusted to keep it private. Already this information is being shared between individuals who do not have near the same standard of care and that information is being shared with other hosts and posted publicly on the forum. Any 'have' list, naturally also forms a 'have not' list.
I already had this out with Drtyore and for some reason he felt it necessary to share a private conversation he had with someone else on the same topic and personally I felt uncomfortable that he did that. Private information is private information. This is exactly the reason why there is a Privacy Act that all organizations must adhere to when it comes to the collection of personal data.
Please understand my tone sounds harsh in text but I'm not trying to be an ass or super argumentative or put someone down. So I apologize if it comes across that way. I think there can be civil discussion about this topic and points can be made respectfully. 20 years of the internet has taught me to use a sledge hammer to hit a nail in. LOL please take it as jibber jabber between people!!
When the rest of your freedoms are taken away, look in the mirror, you have no one else to blame but you.
This statement is what's called a "Straw Man Argument" To your actual point that our rights are being eroded and the possible "boiling frog" syndrome is happening here, no-one is taking your rights away as you think they are. No law or act has been written that has taken your rights away. No one is forcing you to get the vaccination. BUT people have the right to run their businesses or their private property the way they please, it's theirs, not the governments. If these people have decided to only allow vaccinated people in their store or on their property for the sole reason to protect their family and patrons, that IS THEIR RIGHT. I would argue that the unvaccinated are the ones asking to take OUR rights away to choose who comes onto our private property. The government is only providing vaccine passports to allow an easy way to verify if you are vaccinated or not. No one's rights have been taken away here.
Maybe I am also ignorant and don't realize a right has been taken away, can you explain what rights have been taken away?
This argument that knowledge of vaccination is medical information I think is over rated. Its not medical information in my opinion and the only people that are arguing against seem to be same people that are mad this will prove they are not vaccinated.
@moose do you worry about having to show your ID if asked to prove you are 19 to buy cigarettes' or booze? It has your home address on it, people could stock you. No because you understand it's an understandable safeguard put in place to protect us. I feel this is just the same..
EDIT: Let me add to this by asking anyone how do you feel this information that you are vaccinated could be abused say in the wrong hands? I know unvaccinated status could cause you to have to pay higher life insurance rates or even force a rewrite of a life insurance policy to exclude payout if you die of COVID and you are unvaccinated
This argument that knowledge of vaccination is medical information I think is over rated. Its not medical information in my opinion and the only people that are arguing against seem to be same people that are mad this will prove they are not vaccinated.
@moose do you worry about having to show your ID if asked to prove you are 19 to buy cigarettes' or booze? It has your home address on it, people could stock you. No because you understand it's an understandable safeguard put in place to protect us. I feel this is just the same..
EDIT: Let me add to this by asking anyone how do you feel this information that you are vaccinated could be abused say in the wrong hands? I know unvaccinated status could cause you to have to pay higher life insurance rates or even force a rewrite of a life insurance policy to exclude payout if you die of COVID and you are unvaccinated
1. If the guy is writing that information down in a book that he keeps behind his counter, for his 'records'. 100% I would.
2. False information is easily spread. For instance:
The truth about COVID-19 vaccination and insurance coverage
Recently there has been misinformation circulating on social media, raising concerns that getting vaccinated for COVID-19 could negatively affect a customer’s existing life insurance policies or valid Group Benefits coverage with Manulife, or prevent Canadians from getting new life or health insurance coverage. This is untrue.
What you need to know
Getting vaccinated for COVID-19 does not negatively affect your or your plan members’ existing life insurance or valid Group Benefits coverage with us in any way. Additionally, getting a COVID-19 vaccine doesn’t impact a customer’s ability to get new life and health insurance coverage with Manulife.
We continue to follow guidance and recommendations from the World Health Organization and the Canadian government, including supporting government-approved vaccines to combat COVID-19.
Help stop the spread of misinformation about COVID-19 vaccination
Assure your plan members that getting vaccinated for COVID-19 does not negatively affect their existing life insurance or valid Group Benefits coverage in any way, or their ability to get new life and health insurance coverage with Manulife.
3. Let's say your work could force to in to work if they knew you were vaccinated but for your own health and safety you would prefer to continue to work from home. Let's say you were a nurse and if your work knew you were vaccinated, they could force you to work on a covid ward because you were 'more protected'. Let's say you had a legitimate reason to be unvaccinated and because of this you were held back from promotion because your employer felt more comfortable working with a vaccinated person. Is that fair?
Please understand my tone sounds harsh in text but I'm not trying to be an ass or super argumentative or put someone down. So I apologize if it comes across that way. I think there can be civil discussion about this topic and points can be made respectfully. 20 years of the internet has taught me to use a sledge hammer to hit a nail in. LOL please take it as jibber jabber between people!!
When the rest of your freedoms are taken away, look in the mirror, you have no one else to blame but you.
This statement is what's called a "Straw Man Argument" To your actual point that our rights are being eroded and the possible "boiling frog" syndrome is happening here, no-one is taking your rights away as you think they are. No law or act has been written that has taken your rights away. No one is forcing you to get the vaccination. BUT people have the right to run their businesses or their private property the way they please, it's theirs, not the governments. If these people have decided to only allow vaccinated people in their store or on their property for the sole reason to protect their family and patrons, that IS THEIR RIGHT. I would argue that the unvaccinated are the ones asking to take OUR rights away to choose who comes onto our private property. The government is only providing vaccine passports to allow an easy way to verify if you are vaccinated or not. No one's rights have been taken away here.
Maybe I am also ignorant and don't realize a right has been taken away, can you explain what rights have been taken away?
I like you caspan, even though your pic looks like the 40 year old virgin.
No rights, yet. Until the passport dictates otherwise. Obviously going to restaurants and driving are privileges.
Just like I’m not a doctor, I’m not a lawyer but here are my random thoughts
Absence of a “passport” for any Canadian citizen is a way of branding me and segregating me and that is discrimination. A no no.
I mean if you want to take it to the extreme, pretty soon pedophiles and rapists will have more freedoms than someone who doesn’t want to take the “jab”.
I have committed no crime.
The only person who decides what goes in my body is me.
And I really didn’t like your comment about hospital rooms being given to those who took the vaccine and ohip should cancelled for those who didn’t take the vaccine. That’s dictator speak. Talking about being a social and charismatic person doing your duty cause you took a vaccine to prevent a virus which is survived by 98-% of people who get it. Take it easy sledge hammer!
What happens if this vaccine makes everyone sick down the line and the hospitals are full because of them. Does that apply to those people too?
Where did you read about insurance premiums going up? I’d like to see that.
How do you know they are not writing it down after? It's not a great point but trying to compare apples to apples here is hard. But it's an example where we as a society are okay with showing our ID that shows where we live to a stranger and were okay with that but were not okay with showing proof we got a needle. Its just a funny comparison. And lets say 100% is it medical information, just my opinion but if I was asked which would you rather.... "Tell someone your home address, or tell them you got vaccinated" I'd rather someone knows I got vaccinated. To me showing ID or proof of age is accepted because it makes sense and you grew up with it and what harm does it do and you feel its a safe guard and don't argue against it? This whole showing your vaccination status is something new so people feel they have to argue for or against it, and "Think of the kids" I sum it up to the whole right to repair movement and companies saying if we allow a user the blueprints and OEM parts to change their batteries in their phones they could blow up in their face. While that statement is true, its not exactly a road block issue so we shoudl never allow it. We drive everyday around cars that were repaired by ANYONE, they are even allowed to do their own break job and possibly even do it wrong and plow through an intersection and kill 3 people with their 1 ton vehicle. But were okay with that but not okay with the possibility of a battery exploding? How many people die every day because of accidents but we still drive and are okay with allowing anyone to repair a vehicle and we still feel safe somehow. But because its new we fell like it should be more restrictive when 90% of the things we do every day contradict that need and we feel safe. I don't know its just food for thought is all.
I feel any information can be misused in the wrong hands but I feel it will be so minor of an issue to those it happens to just like driving on the road we just accept the risk and were okay with it and not asking for reform of any kind. The good results from it will over weigh the bad like 100,000:1
The life insurance thing came from a Forbs article I read just recently that said business are going to be deducting a value from unvaccinated employees pay cheques to pay for the premiums that are going to go up
It is happening to some people in the US as they return to work. So was just using it as an example. I don't know if its right or not but its on the table for discussion it seems by some US businesses.
The slippery slope argument is clearly understood as a logical fallacy (my bold added).
Slippery slope argument, in logic, the fallacy of arguing that a certain course of action is undesirable or that a certain proposition is implausible because it leads to an undesirable or implausible conclusion via a series of tenuously connected premises, each of which is understood to lead, causally or logically, to the premise (or conclusion) that follows it.
compuease
Admin
Comments
Can anyone remember them all, Kristy, some of DrTyores favorites... Maybe I could send out personal invites to them all??
Like Milo, BTR, Macke, the couch mover and so many more..
Be gentle, I haven’t had my morning smoke, 3 cups of Coffee or my double fat breakfast sandwich yet.
Ideally, I completely agree with you. However, we don't live in an ideal world sadly. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have people refusing to take a completely safe and free vaccination that has proven to curb serious symptoms and prevent most deaths from a dangerous virus. Also, ideally we wouldn't have to worry about people who refuse the vaccine for whatever reason spreading the virus to others if they actually would isolate if they had symptoms, but many anti-vaxxers refuse to do that also (because, for example, "the virus is a hoax" arguments). On top of that, there is proof that you can have the virus and pass it to others even though you do not show any signs of symptoms. There have literally been people dying in the hospital who have spread the virus to other family members who have already died from it and they are still stating that they have no regrets not getting vaccinated.
Therefore, due to these anti-vaxxers complete denial and pro-vaxxers having literally no way to force anti-vaxxers to protect themselves (and hence everyone else around them), pro-vaxxers only respite is something like a vaccine passport.
Again, I completely agree with you. I don't like the idea of having to share my medical history with people as it is none of their business. However, when it comes down to this is literally the best way to try and protect human life and there are no other meaningful alternatives, then I'll deal with having to share my medical history for vaccinations. I'm all for considering alternatives, but I just can't think of any.
Nailed it. I'm absolutely shocked at how comfortable many people are with creating a "SHOW ME YOUR FUCKING PAPERS" approach to participating in society. It's short term thinking at best.
I actually agree with you too. It is short term thinking because in the short term, people are dying from the virus right now and pro-vaxxers are trying to do whatever they can to stop that from happening. Also consider the covid variants that are coming about due to the anti-vax community spreading the virus between each other - another issue that is happening in the short term that we need to try and stop.
EDIT: Again, for the record, I do not like the idea of covid passports, but what is the alternative? Just let anti-vaxxers keep spreading the virus to everyone in large public areas?
As for people knowing my my medical history, bullshit, all it shows is one vaccine completion, nothing more. What the heck are we afraid of. We have had to show our kids vaccinations for so many other diseases pre school, what's the difference?
If I may add. I hate the whole, “I’m vaxxed, double poke” movement. Reminds me of that social media program for American voters. “I voted” GOOD FOR YOU. Something to post to draw attention to themselves.
Clever people might say, “if you’re around”. Fair enough. But I’ll take my chances with a 98%+ survival rate.
I’m also upset at the whole get double vaxxed with what ever manufacture vaccine. I know some people who can’t travel cause they took the “cocktail”. It’s too soon for this vaccine. It’s too soon for any long term evidence. It might “solve” this covid thing but who know what it causes down the line.
When has anything the government got involved with end well.
Again though, it's not just about you and your survival. You can spread it to others and kill them also.
But where does it stop comp. next is booster shots etc. Government, media and pharma are building an us vs you dilemma/situation.
Remember this is not Ebola or small pox or something that would kill you instantly or have a higher transmission rate.wash your hands , don’t touch you’re face, shower, don’t be gross and it will be ok.
With Delta we are certainly starting to see more and more young children affected as well. Who knows the long term effects on them. What will happen with schools opening?
@torontotablecpt I agree with you that I shouldn't have to share my medical history with others but here we are and the reason.. because others won't protect their neighbors. Our generation never had to go to war, our generations call to arms was to sit on our ass and do nothing and get vaccinated to keep our country safe. My grandpas generation had parts of their bodies blown off, had to kill people, left their families and if they returned never returned the same person families were destroyed, all to keep our country safe and to give these people the right to stand on the ground they are standing on today. They have forced this situation upon us and now we have no other choice but to do it to be safe. I have no respect for someone that choose to be a coward while the rest of us are doing what is right. it sickens me and makes me so frustrated we even have to have this conversation it also scares the crap out of me how many people are not in this together.
Rant over..
Haha. Respectfully it’s none of your business. Really. But I like you even though we’ve never met.
I get the whole be human do it for the community thing. But man , everyone is running out to get these vaccines so that they can “return to normal”. Yes it’s a slippery slope Not passing conspiracy theories around, but what is next? Some other variant? Then lock down again.
Legit question for you all. Do masks really work?
I really don’t mind wearing them to be honest. Hide peoples nasty ass breath and teeth. (Me included)
Why is there not accountability either with the manufacturer or the government if anything goes wrong with this vaccine? Doesn’t that scare people?
As of last week they now came out and said it’s safe for pregnant women. What’s next kids? With less than 2 years study.
I have asked my doctor what he thinks off the record. Reply with Less than 2 years Study I would not recommend to patients/general public. For my family not less than 5 years. Pretty interesting.
End of rant.
Here’s one that I’m on the fence about too. I’m really not trying to sound insensitive because to be honest, I have not had an extended family member get covid and thus not extremely sick bed ridden. It’s like poker, so I’m going to assume y’all will get it. Take emotion out of it. The numbers are no more worse than flu deaths in previous years. Interesting how no one dies of the flu nowadays huh? I mean you’re going all in at 99% trying to fade a one outer. Anyone folding?
That seems to be based on the assumption that it's the "anti-vaxxers" that are the ones spreading it. I get it that it's a convenient way to explain it, but the reality is that it looks like everyone will eventually be exposed to this thing, and the choice is just whether you want to experience it with or without the benefit of the vaccine.
Even the Vaccine Gestapo people are starting to backpedal... "We never said it will stop transmission, we need to force this so we don't overwhelm the hospitals" ... which takes us full circle as we enter yet another year of "15 days to flatten the curve."
If someone can show, clearly, how it stops the spread, I think some of the more hesitant folks may come around... but the line in the sand is in forcing them, which includes basing elements of society on a system of proof. As TTC says: Period. End of Story.
When the rest of your freedoms are taken away, look in the mirror, you have no one else to blame but you. V for vendetta is a great movie to watch right now.
“How did this happen? Who's to blame? certainly there are those who are more responsible than others. And they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you”
P.S. I sure hope we get this behind us Andrew, I sure would still like that road trip to your beautiful province before I get too old..
All respect... Jeff.
Thanks Jeff. We’re trying to make our own choice, but society won’t let us.
I guess the old guard can now add covid discussions to “what not to talk about at the poker table “ along with religion and politics.
I hear it’s a hot topic at wsop this year with players not allowed to play with out full vaccination, but dealers can still deal. Haha
I have to disagree. It certainly is not your business. Either you feel safe going out in the world vaccinated or not. If you fear picking up the virus and bringing it home then you shouldn't be going out. The vaccine is not your personal shield from transmitting the virus. Nor is a vaccinated person any less likely to have come into contact with the virus. Either you accept the risks or you don't.
The difference is Comp, that schooling is mandatory, whether at a public school, private school or home school. Medical information is shared with someone that can be trusted to keep it private. Already this information is being shared between individuals who do not have near the same standard of care and that information is being shared with other hosts and posted publicly on the forum. Any 'have' list, naturally also forms a 'have not' list.
I already had this out with Drtyore and for some reason he felt it necessary to share a private conversation he had with someone else on the same topic and personally I felt uncomfortable that he did that. Private information is private information. This is exactly the reason why there is a Privacy Act that all organizations must adhere to when it comes to the collection of personal data.
It is wrong.
This statement is what's called a "Straw Man Argument" To your actual point that our rights are being eroded and the possible "boiling frog" syndrome is happening here, no-one is taking your rights away as you think they are. No law or act has been written that has taken your rights away. No one is forcing you to get the vaccination. BUT people have the right to run their businesses or their private property the way they please, it's theirs, not the governments. If these people have decided to only allow vaccinated people in their store or on their property for the sole reason to protect their family and patrons, that IS THEIR RIGHT. I would argue that the unvaccinated are the ones asking to take OUR rights away to choose who comes onto our private property. The government is only providing vaccine passports to allow an easy way to verify if you are vaccinated or not. No one's rights have been taken away here.
Maybe I am also ignorant and don't realize a right has been taken away, can you explain what rights have been taken away?
@moose do you worry about having to show your ID if asked to prove you are 19 to buy cigarettes' or booze? It has your home address on it, people could stock you. No because you understand it's an understandable safeguard put in place to protect us. I feel this is just the same..
EDIT: Let me add to this by asking anyone how do you feel this information that you are vaccinated could be abused say in the wrong hands? I know unvaccinated status could cause you to have to pay higher life insurance rates or even force a rewrite of a life insurance policy to exclude payout if you die of COVID and you are unvaccinated
1. If the guy is writing that information down in a book that he keeps behind his counter, for his 'records'. 100% I would.
2. False information is easily spread. For instance:
The truth about COVID-19 vaccination and insurance coverage
Recently there has been misinformation circulating on social media, raising concerns that getting vaccinated for COVID-19 could negatively affect a customer’s existing life insurance policies or valid Group Benefits coverage with Manulife, or prevent Canadians from getting new life or health insurance coverage. This is untrue.
What you need to know
Getting vaccinated for COVID-19 does not negatively affect your or your plan members’ existing life insurance or valid Group Benefits coverage with us in any way. Additionally, getting a COVID-19 vaccine doesn’t impact a customer’s ability to get new life and health insurance coverage with Manulife.
We continue to follow guidance and recommendations from the World Health Organization and the Canadian government, including supporting government-approved vaccines to combat COVID-19.
Help stop the spread of misinformation about COVID-19 vaccination
Assure your plan members that getting vaccinated for COVID-19 does not negatively affect their existing life insurance or valid Group Benefits coverage in any way, or their ability to get new life and health insurance coverage with Manulife.
3. Let's say your work could force to in to work if they knew you were vaccinated but for your own health and safety you would prefer to continue to work from home. Let's say you were a nurse and if your work knew you were vaccinated, they could force you to work on a covid ward because you were 'more protected'. Let's say you had a legitimate reason to be unvaccinated and because of this you were held back from promotion because your employer felt more comfortable working with a vaccinated person. Is that fair?
I like you caspan, even though your pic looks like the 40 year old virgin.
No rights, yet. Until the passport dictates otherwise. Obviously going to restaurants and driving are privileges.
Just like I’m not a doctor, I’m not a lawyer but here are my random thoughts
https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/how-rights-protected/guide-canadian-charter-rights-freedoms.html
Absence of a “passport” for any Canadian citizen is a way of branding me and segregating me and that is discrimination. A no no.
I mean if you want to take it to the extreme, pretty soon pedophiles and rapists will have more freedoms than someone who doesn’t want to take the “jab”.
I have committed no crime.
The only person who decides what goes in my body is me.
And I really didn’t like your comment about hospital rooms being given to those who took the vaccine and ohip should cancelled for those who didn’t take the vaccine. That’s dictator speak. Talking about being a social and charismatic person doing your duty cause you took a vaccine to prevent a virus which is survived by 98-% of people who get it. Take it easy sledge hammer!
What happens if this vaccine makes everyone sick down the line and the hospitals are full because of them. Does that apply to those people too?
Where did you read about insurance premiums going up? I’d like to see that.
Good chatting with you.
I feel any information can be misused in the wrong hands but I feel it will be so minor of an issue to those it happens to just like driving on the road we just accept the risk and were okay with it and not asking for reform of any kind. The good results from it will over weigh the bad like 100,000:1
The life insurance thing came from a Forbs article I read just recently that said business are going to be deducting a value from unvaccinated employees pay cheques to pay for the premiums that are going to go up
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2021/08/08/coming-soon-for-the-unvaccinated-a-50-monthly-paycheck-deduction-from-your-employer/?sh=4b65259b47ae
It is happening to some people in the US as they return to work. So was just using it as an example. I don't know if its right or not but its on the table for discussion it seems by some US businesses.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/slippery-slope-argument
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2021/08/08/coming-soon-for-the-unvaccinated-a-50-monthly-paycheck-deduction-from-your-employer/?sh=4b65259b47ae