I like this great discussion but will stay out of it for a while. In retort to Moose, I will not be attending any event or such optional things as casinos, poker games, indoor events unless all are vaccinated OR after all my grandkids are vaccinated, hopefully by year end.
leaving shortly for Montreal for my grandsons first doubleheader with Concordia tomorrow. FYI, completely outdoors, socially distanced. lol. Ok I am proud of him, can you tell? living vicariously..
And I really didn’t like your comment about hospital rooms being given to those who took the vaccine and ohip should cancelled for those who didn’t take the vaccine. That’s dictator speak. Talking about being a social and charismatic person doing your duty cause you took a vaccine to prevent a virus which is survived by 98-% of people who get it. Take it easy sledge hammer!
Low bed counts is exactly the problem that we have been facing from day 1, there were so many COVID cases that it overwhelmed the hospitals there is not enough bed for anyone else vaccinated or not vaccinated that needed them. Here is an article from April form the GTA about the pediatric ward that had to shut down. Don't you think other people needed those beds and this could have been prevented if people just got the shot or stayed at home? I think yes, but you say but it's my right to not put something I don't want in my body. I 100% agree with you, you do have that right! SO to my point of OHIP, as a rational thinking human not a dictator I ask the question, if there is only 1 bed who deserves a bed more? The person that followed medical advice and did everything they could do to not get sick or the person that decided to ignore medical advice. IMO the person that deserves that bed is the one that didn't ignore medical advice. If that is being a dictator then I guess that is what I am you had the rights to refuse the vaccination but you also have to live with the consequences of that choice. I just think it's common sense. Maybe not but yes not cutting OHIP 100% but maybe making them have to deal with some of the bill. Because us as tax payers have to pay for this. Hope this explains the OHIP comment.
So now 'here' we are, well where is 'here'? Well 'here' is people don't want to take the vaccination and they have a right not to. Well how do we solve that problem because it is a problem numbers are still going up? We cannot violate the rights of the unvaccinated OR the vaccinated so we have to come up with ways to make sure both sides rights are protected (Remember you cant fight for rights and pretend the other side does not have them both sides are entitled to the exact same thing the un vaccinated are fighting for). So you don't want to put this vaccine in your body, fair, so how do we protect those that did decide to put this vaccine in their body from those that didn't? Well as a vaccinated or unvaccinated person you have the right to protect your friends and family and patrons and employees by exercising your rights to not allow who you believe to be unsafe people on my property or in my business. To this people retort, "that is discrimination" Problem with that statement is that it's not discrimination, refusing to service to you based on your vaccination status would be discrimination. I'm not refusing service, I am telling you to use our web site or call in and we will go get the stuff for you and meet you at the door. No service has been refused. So what is the issue? If you want the privilege to go into a store and shop and mingle then you have to follow their rules. If not use the web site and call in. No rights have been lost just privileges.
What happens if this vaccine makes everyone sick down the line and the hospitals are full because of them. Does that apply to those people too?
This is again a straw man argument and it's impossible to argue what ifs. But there is no facts supporting this as an issue. BUT lets pretend it happens, as a society we will deal with what ever decisions our past has made based on science and medical advice like we have always done. We will adjust learn and correct our course through life.
As for people knowing my my medical history, bullshit, all it shows is one vaccine completion, nothing more. What the heck are we afraid of.
It's not the knowledge of it though, it's the enforcement of it. I have to carry this thing on me and submit to inspection... otherwise lose the freedom to move around. That's a precedent that will never, ever, be worth it.
And next it will be "your current vaccine status is not as effective as this new one, book your 10th booster shot to proceed."
It's not the knowledge of it though, it's the enforcement of it. I have to carry this thing on me and submit to inspection... otherwise lose the freedom to move around. That's a precedent that will never, ever, be worth it.
You will only lose the ability to go into shops or public spaces that enforce it. It's kind of an overstatement to say you will loose the freedom to move around. It's the world we live in to make sure no rights are taken away. be careful what you wish for!
And I really didn’t like your comment about hospital rooms being given to those who took the vaccine and ohip should cancelled for those who didn’t take the vaccine. That’s dictator speak. Talking about being a social and charismatic person doing your duty cause you took a vaccine to prevent a virus which is survived by 98-% of people who get it. Take it easy sledge hammer!
Low bed counts is exactly the problem that we have been facing from day 1, there were so many COVID cases that it overwhelmed the hospitals there is not enough bed for anyone else vaccinated or not vaccinated that needed them. Here is an article from April form the GTA about the pediatric ward that had to shut down. Don't you think other people needed those beds and this could have been prevented if people just got the shot or stayed at home? I think yes, but you say but it's my right to not put something I don't want in my body. I 100% agree with you, you do have that right! SO to my point of OHIP, as a rational thinking human not a dictator I ask the question, if there is only 1 bed who deserves a bed more? The person that followed medical advice and did everything they could do to not get sick or the person that decided to ignore medical advice. IMO the person that deserves that bed is the one that didn't ignore medical advice. If that is being a dictator then I guess that is what I am you had the rights to refuse the vaccination but you also have to live with the consequences of that choice. I just think it's common sense. Maybe not but yes not cutting OHIP 100% but maybe making them have to deal with some of the bill. Because us as tax payers have to pay for this. Hope this explains the OHIP comment.
You are setting a precedence that will have dire repercussions on this country and the world. Thank goodness we have triage protocols.
Don’t talk about ohip please. for all those smokers and over weight people because they choose to smoke and eat poorly. No bed for you ever.
Theyre cutting out some eye services now because not enough $$
Certainly was around for trump cult and it's still going... I can't believe some of my long time American friends who I never thought would be so easily duped..
As for the other one, well, maybe not, but I sure heard about it from my dad.
Don’t talk about ohip please. for all those smokers and over weight people because they choose to smoke and eat poorly. No bed for you ever.
Theyre cutting out some eye services now because not enough $$
I agree….. down with the fatty’s. The guy on the right should not be eligible for health care the other two handsome gentleman should qualify for health care as they are less PHAT.
Don’t talk about ohip please. for all those smokers and over weight people because they choose to smoke and eat poorly. No bed for you ever.
Theyre cutting out some eye services now because not enough $$
I agree….. down with the fatty’s. The guy on the right should not be eligible for health care the other two handsome gentleman should qualify for health care as they are less PHAT.
Again, arguing that if we allow the government to "mandate vaccines" there's no telling what the government will "mandate" next is a slippery slope argument. This is a logical fallacy people. Look it up (I already posted the Britannica source but literally just start typing in "slippery slope" and google will complete your search with "fallacy" and there are plenty of sources for you to look at). There is no logical and necessary connection that even remotely suggests that this will happen in the future. There are plenty of examples all throughout human history where governing bodies had to make mandates for the benefit of all of society and it did not directly lead to totalitarian dictatorships. This is just a really poor reason to think vaccine passports are a bad idea.
For those who are against vaccine passports, none of you have suggested an alternative by the way. Do you have one? Please explain how we, the vaccinated, can protect ourselves and our loved ones from those who are MUCH MORE likely to get and spread the virus.
Almost 90 per cent of reported COVID-19 cases across Canada are among those who are unvaccinated, a new national public health report shows.
“Since the start of the vaccination campaign on December 14, 2020, the majority (89.8 per cent) of cases being reported to PHAC were among those who were unvaccinated,” the country’s latest epidemiology report said.
Researchers said fully vaccinated people were also 69 per cent less likely to be hospitalized and 49 per cent less likely to die from COVID-19 than those who were unvaccinated.
You did protect yourself. You took the vaccine. Don’t worry what I do.
And yea, they would have more people onboard if they avoided the word passport. But when has anything the govt rolled out been good?
The vaccine does not provide 100% safety. You should know this because people on your side of the argument people who choose not to get vaccinated (I'm sorry, I shouldn't have phrased it that way as I don't know if you actually feel that way or not) use this fact as to why we don't need to take the vaccine (ironically enough). It obviously helps, but in order to actually curb the spread of the virus, we need the vast majority (what is it, something like 85% or more they say) to be vaccinated and that is currently not the case (Ontario is something like 77% has at least one vaccination iirc). So since we can't force those to take the vaccine, what else can we do? I guess according to you, there is nothing and we, the vaccinated, are just victims to the whims of the unvaxxed, correct?
EDIT: And again, I am worried about what you do because you not getting vaxxed affects me and everyone around you. Again, I agree with you about having issues with vaccine passports, but choosing to not get vaccinated is not a choice that just affects you and you alone. Like George Costanza would say "We're trying to live in a society here!"
From mid-July to mid-August, Tam said, the COVID-19 infection rate was 12 times higher among the unvaccinated than the vaccinated, and the hospitalization rate was 36 times higher.
PHAC estimates that 5.2 million eligible Canadians have not yet received any COVID-19 vaccination, while another 2.5 million are only considered partially vaccinated.
"The bottom line is that millions of people across Canada remain unvaccinated and at high risk of COVID-19 infection and severe illness outcomes," Tam said.
You did protect yourself. You took the vaccine. Don’t worry what I do.
And yea, they would have more people onboard if they avoided the word passport. But when has anything the govt rolled out been good?
The vaccine does not provide 100% safety. You should know this because people on your side of the argument people who choose not to get vaccinated (I'm sorry, I shouldn't have phrased it that way as I don't know if you actually feel that way or not) use this fact as to why we don't need to take the vaccine (ironically enough). It obviously helps, but in order to actually curb the spread of the virus, we need the vast majority (what is it, something like 85% or more they say) to be vaccinated and that is currently not the case (Ontario is something like 77% has at least one vaccination iirc). So since we can't force those to take the vaccine, what else can we do? I guess according to you, there is nothing and we, the vaccinated, are just victims to the whims of the unvaxxed, correct?
EDIT: And again, I am worried about what you do because you not getting vaxxed effects me and everyone around you. Again, I agree with you about having issues with vaccine passports, but choosing to not get vaccinated is not a choice that just effects you and you alone. Like George Costanza would say "We're trying to live in a society here!"
You did protect yourself. You took the vaccine. Don’t worry what I do.
And yea, they would have more people onboard if they avoided the word passport. But when has anything the govt rolled out been good?
The vaccine does not provide 100% safety. You should know this because people on your side of the argument people who choose not to get vaccinated (I'm sorry, I shouldn't have phrased it that way as I don't know if you actually feel that way or not) use this fact as to why we don't need to take the vaccine (ironically enough). It obviously helps, but in order to actually curb the spread of the virus, we need the vast majority (what is it, something like 85% or more they say) to be vaccinated and that is currently not the case (Ontario is something like 77% has at least one vaccination iirc). So since we can't force those to take the vaccine, what else can we do? I guess according to you, there is nothing and we, the vaccinated, are just victims to the whims of the unvaxxed, correct?
EDIT: And again, I am worried about what you do because you not getting vaxxed effects me and everyone around you. Again, I agree with you about having issues with vaccine passports, but choosing to not get vaccinated is not a choice that just effects you and you alone. Like George Costanza would say "We're trying to live in a society here!"
One other concern I don't think we have mentioned or discussed as yet, is variants. The longer the infection circulates the more likley there is to be more variants and the more likley there is to be one which maybe bypasses the current vaccines completely.
Sorta similar to global warming (another good topic we could patricipate in) whereby if we tip too far there is no coming back...
I like this great discussion but will stay out of it for a while. In retort to Moose, I will not be attending any event or such optional things as casinos, poker games, indoor events unless all are vaccinated OR after all my grandkids are vaccinated, hopefully by year end.
leaving shortly for Montreal for my grandsons first doubleheader with Concordia tomorrow. FYI, completely outdoors, socially distanced. lol. Ok I am proud of him, can you tell? living vicariously..
And I say again, the difference in risk of infection or transmission for a vaccinated person in a room full of random people and a room of only vaccinated people is so small that it is not even measurable. ANYONE can carry the virus.
So your 'need to know' is a fallacy. Either you feel safe going out or you don't.
You did protect yourself. You took the vaccine. Don’t worry what I do.
And yea, they would have more people onboard if they avoided the word passport. But when has anything the govt rolled out been good?
The vaccine does not provide 100% safety. You should know this because people on your side of the argument people who choose not to get vaccinated (I'm sorry, I shouldn't have phrased it that way as I don't know if you actually feel that way or not) use this fact as to why we don't need to take the vaccine (ironically enough). It obviously helps, but in order to actually curb the spread of the virus, we need the vast majority (what is it, something like 85% or more they say) to be vaccinated and that is currently not the case (Ontario is something like 77% has at least one vaccination iirc). So since we can't force those to take the vaccine, what else can we do? I guess according to you, there is nothing and we, the vaccinated, are just victims to the whims of the unvaxxed, correct?
EDIT: And again, I am worried about what you do because you not getting vaxxed effects me and everyone around you. Again, I agree with you about having issues with vaccine passports, but choosing to not get vaccinated is not a choice that just effects you and you alone. Like George Costanza would say "We're trying to live in a society here!"
Comments
leaving shortly for Montreal for my grandsons first doubleheader with Concordia tomorrow. FYI, completely outdoors, socially distanced. lol. Ok I am proud of him, can you tell?
Low bed counts is exactly the problem that we have been facing from day 1, there were so many COVID cases that it overwhelmed the hospitals there is not enough bed for anyone else vaccinated or not vaccinated that needed them. Here is an article from April form the GTA about the pediatric ward that had to shut down. Don't you think other people needed those beds and this could have been prevented if people just got the shot or stayed at home? I think yes, but you say but it's my right to not put something I don't want in my body. I 100% agree with you, you do have that right! SO to my point of OHIP, as a rational thinking human not a dictator I ask the question, if there is only 1 bed who deserves a bed more? The person that followed medical advice and did everything they could do to not get sick or the person that decided to ignore medical advice. IMO the person that deserves that bed is the one that didn't ignore medical advice. If that is being a dictator then I guess that is what I am you had the rights to refuse the vaccination but you also have to live with the consequences of that choice. I just think it's common sense. Maybe not but yes not cutting OHIP 100% but maybe making them have to deal with some of the bill. Because us as tax payers have to pay for this. Hope this explains the OHIP comment.
So now 'here' we are, well where is 'here'? Well 'here' is people don't want to take the vaccination and they have a right not to. Well how do we solve that problem because it is a problem numbers are still going up? We cannot violate the rights of the unvaccinated OR the vaccinated so we have to come up with ways to make sure both sides rights are protected (Remember you cant fight for rights and pretend the other side does not have them both sides are entitled to the exact same thing the un vaccinated are fighting for). So you don't want to put this vaccine in your body, fair, so how do we protect those that did decide to put this vaccine in their body from those that didn't? Well as a vaccinated or unvaccinated person you have the right to protect your friends and family and patrons and employees by exercising your rights to not allow who you believe to be unsafe people on my property or in my business. To this people retort, "that is discrimination" Problem with that statement is that it's not discrimination, refusing to service to you based on your vaccination status would be discrimination. I'm not refusing service, I am telling you to use our web site or call in and we will go get the stuff for you and meet you at the door. No service has been refused. So what is the issue? If you want the privilege to go into a store and shop and mingle then you have to follow their rules. If not use the web site and call in. No rights have been lost just privileges.
This is again a straw man argument and it's impossible to argue what ifs. But there is no facts supporting this as an issue. BUT lets pretend it happens, as a society we will deal with what ever decisions our past has made based on science and medical advice like we have always done. We will adjust learn and correct our course through life.
You said I look like Steve Carell, I take that as a compliment!!!
It's not the knowledge of it though, it's the enforcement of it. I have to carry this thing on me and submit to inspection... otherwise lose the freedom to move around. That's a precedent that will never, ever, be worth it.
And next it will be "your current vaccine status is not as effective as this new one, book your 10th booster shot to proceed."
You will only lose the ability to go into shops or public spaces that enforce it. It's kind of an overstatement to say you will loose the freedom to move around. It's the world we live in to make sure no rights are taken away. be careful what you wish for!
But I get what you are saying though!
Also how paranoia starts.. no disrepect meant... Has some similarities to trump cult mania...
History….that’s where mine stems from. Were you around? Haha
As I wrote before. I hope I’m incorrect.
As for the other one, well, maybe not, but I sure heard about it from my dad.
I agree….. down with the fatty’s. The guy on the right should not be eligible for health care the other two handsome gentleman should qualify for health care as they are less PHAT.
Delicious. And I don’t mean the food
For those who are against vaccine passports, none of you have suggested an alternative by the way. Do you have one? Please explain how we, the vaccinated, can protect ourselves and our loved ones from those who are MUCH MORE likely to get and spread the virus.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8059996/almost-all-recent-covid-cases-unvaccinated/
And yea, they would have more people onboard if they avoided the word passport. But when has anything the govt rolled out been good?
The vaccine does not provide 100% safety. You should know this because people on your side of the argument people who choose not to get vaccinated (I'm sorry, I shouldn't have phrased it that way as I don't know if you actually feel that way or not) use this fact as to why we don't need to take the vaccine (ironically enough). It obviously helps, but in order to actually curb the spread of the virus, we need the vast majority (what is it, something like 85% or more they say) to be vaccinated and that is currently not the case (Ontario is something like 77% has at least one vaccination iirc). So since we can't force those to take the vaccine, what else can we do? I guess according to you, there is nothing and we, the vaccinated, are just victims to the whims of the unvaxxed, correct?
EDIT: And again, I am worried about what you do because you not getting vaxxed affects me and everyone around you. Again, I agree with you about having issues with vaccine passports, but choosing to not get vaccinated is not a choice that just affects you and you alone. Like George Costanza would say "We're trying to live in a society here!"
If this is directed at me, I have no idea what you are talking about.
I think just another random topic that should be controversial….. that being said……..
Down with the corrupt, inept, scumbag in blackface. Already did a mail in vote for the P.C. Party.
I will guess that Trigs being a lefty pinko communist teachers union member will have no choice but to vote for the failed substitute drama teacher.
Still luv ya Trigs but only in the heterosexual ways.
Don't drag your dog into your political agenda
It's true. I basically am a lefty pinko communist lol. Sorry.
I’m part of the human fund too.
I am gonna take all your teachers union money on the 25th. Then I’m gonna donate it to the P.C. Party.
Wooooooooooooo
I thought you taught English?
effect - noun
affect - verb
God help us.
Sorta similar to global warming (another good topic we could patricipate in) whereby if we tip too far there is no coming back...
And I say again, the difference in risk of infection or transmission for a vaccinated person in a room full of random people and a room of only vaccinated people is so small that it is not even measurable. ANYONE can carry the virus.
So your 'need to know' is a fallacy. Either you feel safe going out or you don't.
Lol. You got me. Never said I was perfect.