I guess the question is whether they qualify as celebrity or famous. I could have picked my 96 year old great uncle but I don't think it's within the spirit of the rules.
Does your great uncle have some sort of notoriety?
Eleanor Jean Park is from The Sound of Music, according to the submitted list. The other bolded names all have some sort of notoriety attached to them, be it world's oldest person, final Holocaust survivor, etc. All of those things would fall quite comfortably under the umbrella of "miscellaneous". Johnnie, you submitted two names (not on your final roster) whose notoriety comes from the mini-series Band of Brothers. They are not famous in and of themselves, their story is. should they have been disqualified?
The rookie came up with a sound strategy . . . and has a winner already. The rosters stand. If the majority feel strongly enough about it, i will step asied, and someone else can take over.
I was under the impression that all teams were retro active till Jan 1st.
And for the record I know picking a condemned criminal is a little sneaky but perfectly legit, I'd also like to point out i could have stacked my whole roster with said guaranteed picks but only choose to take 1.
See bolded . . . Welch was 49 years old. That is $10.00 to the rookie
Thanks, Steve , I have made the correction . . . here are the original "rules":
Rules:
Players would slot their picks into the above named categories, to a maximum of 8 per category, giving each player a pool of 40 draftees.
Each player must then number their picks according to desirability (ie the person you think most likely to expire) regardless of category (ie 5 wrestlers).
Once all selections have been vetted (some of them may already have died), a draft will take place. The draft order will be determined by random lot, or bribery of the official should you feel it necessary. The draft order will be similar to the NHL, namely 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
The draft will continue until an equal number of players are placed on each team. Selections will be alloted on a first in, wins basis. In other words, whomever gets to a person first, whether by draft position, or ranking on their individual list, has that player. Any player that misses out, gets the next highest ranked player.
To clarify: If Draft positions 1&2 both rate the same person as #1 on their list, position 1 gets the player, position 2 gets their #2 choice.
No picking compuease. This rule is not subject to bribery or modification
Yes, I read the list, and the explanations he provided for the names.
Does your great uncle have some sort of notoriety?
Eleanor Jean Park is from The Sound of Music, according to the submitted list. The other bolded names all have some sort of notoriety attached to them, be it world's oldest person, final Holocaust survivor, etc. All of those things would fall quite comfortably under the umbrella of "miscellaneous". Johnnie, you submitted two names (not on your final roster) whose notoriety comes from the mini-series Band of Brothers. They are not famous in and of themselves, their story is. should they have been disqualified?
The rookie came up with a sound strategy . . . and has a winner already. The rosters stand. If the majority feel strongly enough about it, i will step asied, and someone else can take over.
Nororiety? Was there a big senationalistic trial for Gary Welch 17 years ago that I missed? Or was he just another product of the US death penalty system killing in the name of killing? This is not John Wayne Gacey we're talking about so yes, my great uncle likely has as much notoriety as Gary Welch.......well until he was executed at least.
But w/e. I'd hate to step on the toes of DPIII czar.
I was under the impression that all teams were retro active till Jan 1st.
And for the record I know picking a condemned criminal is a little sneaky but perfectly legit, I'd also like to point out i could have stacked my whole roster with said guaranteed picks but only choose to take 1.
Why didn't you take all guaranteed picks? It is a little sneakiy but perfectly legit.
EDIT: The more I think about it. If you had taken a high profile death row inmate it would have been a little sneaky. This was an angle shoot as far as I'm concerned.
And this is why things like this should be kept between friends who actually have some dealings and personal experience with each other.
Soon as TheMill provides a Stars handle (or some other info.), I will add it to his roster. And, step on my toes all you like. I am just acting as an impartial moderator for this thing. I have no vested interest. As posted, if the majority feel strongly enough about it, someone else can take over with no hard feelings on my part.
So, is the issue here that:
a) The guy was on death row?
or
b) He's just some random on death row?
We've had death row inmates on teams previous years and have another in this year's pool with Tariq Aziz. I had him last year and DJ has him this year.
As far as notoriety goes, there's always been some question in this regard. At any point anyone in past years could have gone through a team and found members names they didn't recognize. I'm 100% sure we could do the same with this year's teams as well.
It's always been an arbitrary measure and can be considered problematic. I'm not sure what to do here.
So, is the issue here that:
a) The guy was on death row?
or
b) He's just some random on death row?
We've had death row inmates on teams previous years and have another in this year's pool with Tariq Aziz. I had him last year and DJ has him this year.
As far as notoriety goes, there's always been some question in this regard. At any point anyone in past years could have gone through a team and found members names they didn't recognize. I'm 100% sure we could do the same with this year's teams as well.
It's always been an arbitrary measure and can be considered problematic. I'm not sure what to do here.
Both. I think that picking someone that has a fixed time of death upcoming violates the spirt of the dead pool, as does picking someone who is only know as "The oldest ________ in the World"
Yup, this is exactly the problem and an excellent example of where the perception of angleshooting or potential impropriety could have been sourced.
At the end of the day, our forum DP is a relatively young animal. We've only been running this for a few years and we've made up the rules ourselves. This can, will, has and will continue to create problems we will have to discuss.
There is no real need to reinvent the wheel here though. Perhaps we could consult with other dead pools which would have experienced these issues themselves and addressed them. I'm quite sure several managers consulted various dead pool sites during the research phase of building their teams.
Just a thought.
Here's a little snipit from the rules of "The DeathList 2012", a popular UK deadpool that I'm sure several are familiar with:
"The basic rules are that candidates must be famous in their own right such that their death is expected to be reported by the UK media, however they cannot be famous purely for the fact they are likely to expire shortly."
Bill makes rational points. We have not, for want of a better term, fleshed out the rules for this pool. This is something that we can and should do, obviously. But the facts are that we have not done so . . .
And, as much as it might be an "angle shoot" on the part of TheMill to have made the selections he did, it is equally wrong to make rulings after the fact that have no basis beyond feeling wronged.
This is a voluntary "game" and no one can be forced to do anything they do not wish to in this regard, but perhaps this year's pool should be scrubbed if feelings are this strong.
Bill makes rational points. We have not, for want of a better term, fleshed out the rules for this pool. This is something that we can and should do, obviously. But the facts are that we have not done so . . .
And, as much as it might be an "angle shoot" on the part of TheMill to have made the selections he did, it is equally wrong to make rulings after the fact that have no basis beyond feeling wronged.
This is a voluntary "game" and no one can be forced to do anything they do not wish to in this regard, but perhaps this year's pool should be scrubbed if feelings are this strong.
I'm sorry, but if the majority of people involved feel the spirit of the game was violated (in spite of the lack of written rules to cover specific instances) then it was a violation.
Tarik Aziz certainly has more fame than Gary Welch and also has no set date for execution.....in fact there are serious doubts that it will happen at all. If Jeffrey Dahmer had an execution date this year and was picked, I'd still consider it an angle but could have no argument that he didn't meet the criteria of fame.
Gary Welch is/was a random on death row. Period. I know no one else in this pool would have picked him or any other random death row inmate as the angle shoot that TheMill did, and for that reason alone I cry foul.
I'm sorry, but if the majority of people involved feel the spirit of the game was violated (in spite of the lack of written rules to cover specific instances) then it was a violation.
Tarik Aziz certainly has more fame than Gary Welch and also has no set date for execution.....in fact there are serious doubts that it will happen at all. If Jeffrey Dahmer had an execution date this year and was picked, I'd still consider it an angle but could have no argument that he didn't meet the criteria of fame.
Gary Welch is/was a random on death row. Period. I know no one else in this pool would have picked him or any other random death row inmate as the angle shoot that TheMill did, and for that reason alone I cry foul.
I'm sorry, but if the majority of people involved feel the spirit of the game was violated (in spite of the lack of written rules to cover specific instances) then it was a violation.
Tarik Aziz certainly has more fame than Gary Welch and also has no set date for execution.....in fact there are serious doubts that it will happen at all. If Jeffrey Dahmer had an execution date this year and was picked, I'd still consider it an angle but could have no argument that he didn't meet the criteria of fame.
Gary Welch is/was a random on death row. Period. I know no one else in this pool would have picked him or any other random death row inmate as the angle shoot that TheMill did, and for that reason alone I cry foul.
Re: bolded portion. I am still waiting to hear from a majority, hence the other thread I started in order to make a decision on this issue. The fact is, the majority of managers have not responded to this issue yet.
I suggest we keep discussion of this in the other thread (or at least just one thread) so as not to clutter the forum. This really only has interest to those involved in the pool and people will start to get pissed understandably.
Wow, I expected some flak but the dissolving of the dp.. CRAZY. Milo was right, I had a strategy going into this, Picking the worlds oldest person,Oldest Holocaust survivor etc. kinda seem like no brainers. When we play cards were all looking for AA starting hand right? So I picked the oldest people in world, to me there the closet human being mathematically to the finish line. Would you rather pay to fill your empty gas tank or fill it up from half ? As for picking your "uncle fred" if uncle fred gets 1.6 million hits on google (and your not pushing him down the stairs) then by all means pick him and I would be more than HAPPY to pay out. Calling this angle shooting is a strech. In no way am I trying to decive/cheat people outta there money. Being the rookie on DP3 I wanted to make sure that I at least got 1 player across the line. If I was terminally ill and picked myself would this be cheating? I would say yes, But if another player knew of my condition and picked me I see that as perfectly legit (not with standing the fact that I don't even come close to meeting the infamous factor)
Look, bottom line and I say this to all mangers
I REALLY like the forum and the people on it and hope to have nothing but great experiances but I'm kinda feeling like I pissed off the "cool kids" in high school or beat the home town favorite at there own game and now am paying the price.
So in the interest of keeping everyone happy I will drop Gary from my team. But for the record I feel this is unfair, I am more interested in meeting new like mind people (card players) and trying to hone my meager poker skills. Then I am in collecting $80 that pstars will slowly suck from me. I hope the next time a fellow manger and myself find ourselves at the same table/trrny that we could take a few minutes to discuss this matter. Once again I very humbly apoligize for upsetting the players, I was just trying to be shrewd about my picks.
Wow, I expected some flak but the dissolving of the dp.. CRAZY. Milo was right, I had a strategy going into this, Picking the worlds oldest person,Oldest Holocaust survivor etc. kinda seem like no brainers. When we play cards were all looking for AA starting hand right? So I picked the oldest people in world, to me there the closet human being mathematically to the finish line. Would you rather pay to fill your empty gas tank or fill it up from half ? As for picking your "uncle fred" if uncle fred gets 1.6 million hits on google (and your not pushing him down the stairs) then by all means pick him and I would be more than HAPPY to pay out. Calling this angle shooting is a strech. In no way am I trying to decive/cheat people outta there money. Being the rookie on DP3 I wanted to make sure that I at least got 1 player across the line. If I was terminally ill and picked myself would this be cheating? I would say yes, But if another player knew of my condition and picked me I see that as perfectly legit (not with standing the fact that I don't even come close to meeting the infamous factor)
The problem with this theory is youve taken it from fun to serious. But in youre defense I think everyone else has too (maybe not to the degree of devising an outright strategy, but you get the point).
The first year this ran there was Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears, lindsay Lohan, etc. on the lists.
I honestly have no clue who 80% of the people on the lists are. Not fun.
Besse Cooper
Florence Green
Alice Herz Sommer
Monte Irvin
Jake LaMotta
Esther Williams
Ravi Shankar
Helmut Schmidt
Allen Arbus
Glen Campbell
Henry Kissinger
Eleanor Jean Parker
Frank Cady
Ann B Davis
Case in point. Outside of Kissinger Ive never heard of any of these people. Maybe Im ignorant. Or maybe theyre not celebrities.
The problem with this theory is youve taken it from fun to serious. But in youre defense I think everyone else has too (maybe not to the degree of devising an outright strategy, but you get the point).
The first year this ran there was Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears, lindsay Lohan, etc. on the lists.
I honestly have no clue who 80% of the people on the lists are. Not fun.
I'll go away now.
Beleave it or not i thought about dong joke picks...justin biebier, The 4 guys from the wiggles etc...but thought that this would be a waste..I'm all game if someone can come up with a "fun" spin on this thing...Strip DP3 ? oh wait mark wins
Case in point. Outside of Kissinger Ive never heard of any of these people. Maybe Im ignorant. Or maybe theyre not celebrities.
Glen Campbell - country singer - Rhinestone Cowboy
Ann B Davis - the maid on Brady Bunch
Jake LaMotta - boxing champ, subject of the movie Raging bull
Helmut Schmidt - German Chancellor from the 70/80's
Esther Williams - did a bunch of swimming movies between WW1 and WW2
Frank Cady was on Green Acres or Petticoay Junction
Ravi Shankar - Indian musician, influence on a small British quartet called the Beatles.
Glen Campbell - country singer - Rhinestone Cowboy
Ann B Davis - the maid on Brady Bunch
Jake LaMotta - boxing champ, subject of the movie Raging bull
Helmut Schmidt - German Chancellor from the 70/80's
Esther Williams - did a bunch of swimming movies between WW1 and WW2
Frank Cady was on Green Acres or Petticoay Junction
Ravi Shankar - Indian musician, influence on a small British quartet called the Beatles.
you're just young, Wetts.
Don't forget Henry Kissinger, probably the most famous US diplomat ever.
In defense of Wetts, I would only have known Jake LaMotta and Kissinger.
Mark
No defense needed for either of you . . . different strokes, was the intended point. Well . . . that, and that I have a shit-load of minutiae floating around my skull.
Comments
Yes, I read the list, and the explanations he provided for the names.
Does your great uncle have some sort of notoriety?
Eleanor Jean Park is from The Sound of Music, according to the submitted list. The other bolded names all have some sort of notoriety attached to them, be it world's oldest person, final Holocaust survivor, etc. All of those things would fall quite comfortably under the umbrella of "miscellaneous". Johnnie, you submitted two names (not on your final roster) whose notoriety comes from the mini-series Band of Brothers. They are not famous in and of themselves, their story is. should they have been disqualified?
The rookie came up with a sound strategy . . . and has a winner already. The rosters stand. If the majority feel strongly enough about it, i will step asied, and someone else can take over.
See bolded . . . Welch was 49 years old. That is $10.00 to the rookie
Rules:
Players would slot their picks into the above named categories, to a maximum of 8 per category, giving each player a pool of 40 draftees.
Each player must then number their picks according to desirability (ie the person you think most likely to expire) regardless of category (ie 5 wrestlers).
Once all selections have been vetted (some of them may already have died), a draft will take place. The draft order will be determined by random lot, or bribery of the official should you feel it necessary. The draft order will be similar to the NHL, namely 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
The draft will continue until an equal number of players are placed on each team. Selections will be alloted on a first in, wins basis. In other words, whomever gets to a person first, whether by draft position, or ranking on their individual list, has that player. Any player that misses out, gets the next highest ranked player.
To clarify: If Draft positions 1&2 both rate the same person as #1 on their list, position 1 gets the player, position 2 gets their #2 choice.
No picking compuease. This rule is not subject to bribery or modification
Nororiety? Was there a big senationalistic trial for Gary Welch 17 years ago that I missed? Or was he just another product of the US death penalty system killing in the name of killing? This is not John Wayne Gacey we're talking about so yes, my great uncle likely has as much notoriety as Gary Welch.......well until he was executed at least.
But w/e. I'd hate to step on the toes of DPIII czar.
Where to ship?
Why didn't you take all guaranteed picks? It is a little sneakiy but perfectly legit.
EDIT: The more I think about it. If you had taken a high profile death row inmate it would have been a little sneaky. This was an angle shoot as far as I'm concerned.
And this is why things like this should be kept between friends who actually have some dealings and personal experience with each other.
a) The guy was on death row?
or
b) He's just some random on death row?
We've had death row inmates on teams previous years and have another in this year's pool with Tariq Aziz. I had him last year and DJ has him this year.
As far as notoriety goes, there's always been some question in this regard. At any point anyone in past years could have gone through a team and found members names they didn't recognize. I'm 100% sure we could do the same with this year's teams as well.
It's always been an arbitrary measure and can be considered problematic. I'm not sure what to do here.
This.
Dam, I should have picked Charles Lorraine
Upcoming Executions | Death Penalty Information Center
Both. I think that picking someone that has a fixed time of death upcoming violates the spirt of the dead pool, as does picking someone who is only know as "The oldest ________ in the World"
Yup, this is exactly the problem and an excellent example of where the perception of angleshooting or potential impropriety could have been sourced.
At the end of the day, our forum DP is a relatively young animal. We've only been running this for a few years and we've made up the rules ourselves. This can, will, has and will continue to create problems we will have to discuss.
There is no real need to reinvent the wheel here though. Perhaps we could consult with other dead pools which would have experienced these issues themselves and addressed them. I'm quite sure several managers consulted various dead pool sites during the research phase of building their teams.
Just a thought.
Here's a little snipit from the rules of "The DeathList 2012", a popular UK deadpool that I'm sure several are familiar with:
"The basic rules are that candidates must be famous in their own right such that their death is expected to be reported by the UK media, however they cannot be famous purely for the fact they are likely to expire shortly."
And, as much as it might be an "angle shoot" on the part of TheMill to have made the selections he did, it is equally wrong to make rulings after the fact that have no basis beyond feeling wronged.
This is a voluntary "game" and no one can be forced to do anything they do not wish to in this regard, but perhaps this year's pool should be scrubbed if feelings are this strong.
I'm sorry, but if the majority of people involved feel the spirit of the game was violated (in spite of the lack of written rules to cover specific instances) then it was a violation.
Tarik Aziz certainly has more fame than Gary Welch and also has no set date for execution.....in fact there are serious doubts that it will happen at all. If Jeffrey Dahmer had an execution date this year and was picked, I'd still consider it an angle but could have no argument that he didn't meet the criteria of fame.
Gary Welch is/was a random on death row. Period. I know no one else in this pool would have picked him or any other random death row inmate as the angle shoot that TheMill did, and for that reason alone I cry foul.
Perfectly stated explanation.
Re: bolded portion. I am still waiting to hear from a majority, hence the other thread I started in order to make a decision on this issue. The fact is, the majority of managers have not responded to this issue yet.
Look, bottom line and I say this to all mangers
I REALLY like the forum and the people on it and hope to have nothing but great experiances but I'm kinda feeling like I pissed off the "cool kids" in high school or beat the home town favorite at there own game and now am paying the price.
So in the interest of keeping everyone happy I will drop Gary from my team. But for the record I feel this is unfair, I am more interested in meeting new like mind people (card players) and trying to hone my meager poker skills. Then I am in collecting $80 that pstars will slowly suck from me. I hope the next time a fellow manger and myself find ourselves at the same table/trrny that we could take a few minutes to discuss this matter. Once again I very humbly apoligize for upsetting the players, I was just trying to be shrewd about my picks.
Sorry Milo didn't see your last post
The problem with this theory is youve taken it from fun to serious. But in youre defense I think everyone else has too (maybe not to the degree of devising an outright strategy, but you get the point).
The first year this ran there was Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears, lindsay Lohan, etc. on the lists.
I honestly have no clue who 80% of the people on the lists are. Not fun.
I'll go away now.
Case in point. Outside of Kissinger Ive never heard of any of these people. Maybe Im ignorant. Or maybe theyre not celebrities.
Beleave it or not i thought about dong joke picks...justin biebier, The 4 guys from the wiggles etc...but thought that this would be a waste..I'm all game if someone can come up with a "fun" spin on this thing...Strip DP3 ? oh wait mark wins
Glen Campbell - country singer - Rhinestone Cowboy
Ann B Davis - the maid on Brady Bunch
Jake LaMotta - boxing champ, subject of the movie Raging bull
Helmut Schmidt - German Chancellor from the 70/80's
Esther Williams - did a bunch of swimming movies between WW1 and WW2
Frank Cady was on Green Acres or Petticoay Junction
Ravi Shankar - Indian musician, influence on a small British quartet called the Beatles.
you're just young, Wetts.
Don't forget Henry Kissinger, probably the most famous US diplomat ever.
Mark
No defense needed for either of you . . . different strokes, was the intended point. Well . . . that, and that I have a shit-load of minutiae floating around my skull.
Hi pot, I'd like you to meet kettle. Just do it quickly, he's up wat past his bedtime.