I'm sorry but I cannot find absolute joy in anyone's death. Yes, horrible person. Yes, deserved justice, even if it does mean ending his life. I just can't find enough hate to shake the pom poms for someone's murder. You're all entitled to your glee for the deed but how can you act like it's a shock the next time some Osama clone finds a way to retaliate? Violence begets violence. And through all of it not a word about how many victims from the Iraq war based on nothing more than Bush Jr's need to settle his dad's score.
I spent today reflecting on the fates of his many victims (9/11 and pre btw) and took comfort in the knowledge that he will hurt no more, but with humility not elation.
I was just listening to an interview with a woman who lost a daughter in 9/11, and she said much the same. Was she happy that he wouldn't hurt anyone else? Yes. Was she glad that this may lead to greater peace and safety on earth? Yes. Did it bring her daughter back? No. Did she feel justice was served? No.
I'm not one to cheer for someone dying, and quite frankly, shame on those that do.
I know this would never happen, but couldn't the world take note of who comes to the gravesite, "aka shrine" and pin a terrorist label on that person. I mean, who else is going to visit the scumbag but other scumbags ?
Interesting logic...faulty but interesting. Guilty by association after death.
I have to partially agree. While joy isn't the word....the violence begets violence* stuff is faulty. Because he is dead he is not planning any more death. The fact that some people will use his death as an excuse for martyrdom doesn't reduce the fact that a huge threat is gone.
*there are definitely cases where killing the culprit ended the killing....
I have to partially agree. While joy isn't the word....the violence begets violence* stuff is faulty. Because he is dead he is not planning any more death. The fact that some people will use his death as an excuse for martyrdom doesn't reduce the fact that a huge threat is gone.
*there are definitely cases where killing the culprit ended the killing....
Yes, but for years now Bin Laden has been little more than a toothless figurehead. There is no doubt in my mind his murder will result in the rage of his numerous disciples causing much more future damage than a full life of a running scared Bin Laden.
Hitler was an instance of killing the culprit where results were undoubtedly successful...in this instance I have serious doubt.
Yes, but for years now Bin Laden has been little more than a toothless figurehead. There is no doubt in my mind his murder will result in the rage of his numerous disciples causing much more future damage than a full life of a running scared Bin Laden.
Al Qaeda has always been about independent cells with no centralized organization. Bin Laden has been hiding out like you said, but all the other "AQ in ______" cells have still been operational. There may be a minimal surge in activity after this news, but I do not think there will be anything "new" as a result of his death.
Yes, but for years now Bin Laden has been little more than a toothless figurehead. There is no doubt in my mind his murder ...
Aug 23, 1996 – Osama declares holy war against US, signs a Declaration of jihad from Afghanistan titled: ‘Message from Osama bin Laden to his Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula.’
Aug 23, 1996 – Osama declares holy war against US, signs a Declaration of jihad from Afghanistan titled: ‘Message from Osama bin Laden to his Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula.’
How is it murder when the one who declares war, and in fact is the general of his army is killed? .
Please explain?
Brent
For this argument to work then a certain Canadian combatant in Guantanamo Bay should be released and have all the charges dropped. It also lends credence to Osama's actions being ok....which neither of us agree with.
Agree 100% with the glad he can't hurt anyone sentiment. Very few people I would be happy are dead. He's definitely on that "not gonna cry over it" list. Do find the whole thing full of irony though: Osama killed in a mansion after decrying for so many years the Western culture's obsession with money and possesions, American citizens celebrating a death of someone in an attack (provoked or not) in massive, cheering, flag waving groups after being so distraught over the site of Al Queda and other terrorist supporters doing the same in numerous earlier instances.
Wonder if the whole thing with Obama coming out to Hogan's theme music was intentional after him dropping the big leg on Osama?
For this argument to work then a certain Canadian combatant in Guantanamo Bay should be released and have all the charges dropped. It also lends credence to Osama's actions being ok....which neither of us agree with.
I will admit I don't know much about the guy you are talking about, but it seems to me if a Canadian, who is fighting for this country which is part of Nato throws a bomb into an American barricks or whatever it was American, which is also part of Nato clearly we have a problem.
Bin Laden started a war and was unable to finish it. Those who feel his death is murder sadly mistaken and don't understand what the war on terror has been about. While I didn't jumb for joy at his death I replayed the interview where he describes in detail who he felt given his engineering background that fullfuel tanks would melt the columns of the trade center bring them down. The glee in his face and thise around him.
I agree that it won't be then end of terrorism, it is hard fighting and idealogical idea, but am not going to lose sleep over his death. He belongs on the same hall of shame as Hitler, Stalin and many other.
Bin Laden started a war and was unable to finish it. Those who feel his death is murder sadly mistaken and don't understand what the war on terror has been about.
Yeah Brent, you're right. Because I used the word "murder" to describe the act of hunting down a person with the sole intention of shooting him to end his life, I don't have any understanding of the war on terror. Thanks for setting me straight.
In fact if you go back over all the years Bin Laden was receiving money, combat training and weapons and ammunition from the US I guess the act should be termed "asset retrieval".
Yeah Brent, you're right. Because I used the word "murder" to describe the act of hunting down a person with the sole intention of shooting him to end his life, I don't have any understanding of the war on terror. Thanks for setting me straight.
In fact if you go back over all the years Bin Laden was receiving money, combat training and weapons and ammunition from the US I guess the act should be termed "asset retrieval".
For this argument to work then a certain Canadian combatant in Guantanamo Bay should be released and have all the charges dropped. It also lends credence to Osama's actions being ok....which neither of us agree with.
I assume you are talking about Khadr . . . and I agree, to a point. He is, for better or worse, a Canadian citizen. He should be released from Guantanomo, and tried for premeditated murder here in Canada. If/when he is convicted, he should get whatever sentence is deemed appropriate. I would go with Life w/o parole, as he is definitely a high risk to reoffend.
Oh, and the cheering rednecks with their chants of USA USA are disgusting human beings.
It's not just rednecks though. A large portion of the world is doing this in large groups. While I can't really fault those that do, as I understand the mindset, it's still hard for them to not come off as hypocritical when they villify others for the same actions.
Eisenhower once said that killing the enemy gave him no satisfaction. That the victory was sweetest that came swiftly, and with minimal losses. To revel in the defeat of an adversary was unmanly in his eyes, as that was what was expected of you in war.
[QUOTE=In fact if you go back over all the years Bin Laden was receiving money, combat training and weapons and ammunition from the US I guess the act should be termed "asset retrieval".[/QUOTE]
I assume you are talking about Khadr . . . and I agree, to a point. He is, for better or worse, a Canadian citizen. He should be released from Guantanomo, and tried for premeditated murder here in Canada. If/when he is convicted, he should get whatever sentence is deemed appropriate. I would go with Life w/o parole, as he is definitely a high risk to reoffend.
so he;d be out....13 year olds get little time plus time served he's out.
so he;d be out....13 year olds get little time plus time served he's out.
Not going to say what I really think here.
Why should we pay for his trial and incarceration?
He tossed the Grenade into the Americans Barracks. Let them take care of it.
Not going to say what I really think here.
Why should we pay for his trial and incarceration?
He tossed the Grenade into the Americans Barracks. Let them take care of it.
As I said, he is a Canadian citizen. So we have to take care of our own.
He was engaged as a combatant against one of our Allies. You could even stretch a case for treason during war time, which would make him Death Penalty eligible. But I do not agree with the Death Penalty.
NO! He is not a true Canadian as far as I am concerned. Not even sure if he was born here to be honest. Canadians don't go to Afghanistan and toss grenades at their allies intending to kill them.
Give him a parachute and drop him off in the wilderness of Afghanistan and let God decide what happens to him.
It's bad enough that we have to pay for guys like Bernardo, Picton, Williams and that other steaming pant load Olsen. We don't need to start loading up our jails with people like this. Bad enough with the scum I mentioned above.
NO! He is not a true Canadian as far as I am concerned. Not even sure if he was born here to be honest.
Please stop. We are all dumber for reading the falsehoods you type.
If you believe the US...he was in a firefight. He didn't throw a grenade into barracks. I can't believe I'm getting into a birther argument about Kadr. Either way if a 15 year old in Canada killed someone he'd be out by now. Anyone who believes that a 15 year old brought up the way he did is completely responsible for their actions.....you might as well bring back the death penalty for the disabled (like they have in the states).
NO! He is not a true Canadian as far as I am concerned. Not even sure if he was born here to be honest.
Please stop. We are all dumber for reading the falsehoods you type.
If you believe the US...he was in a firefight. He didn't throw a grenade into barracks. I can't believe I'm getting into a birther argument about Kadr. Either way if a 15 year old in Canada killed someone he'd be out by now. Anyone who believes that a 15 year old brought up the way he did is completely responsible for their actions.....you might as well bring back the death penalty for the disabled (like they have in the states).
So what are you saying? they should welcome him back with open arms and let him walk the streets. Maybe it will take him driving down Yonge Street in a U-Haul truck loaded with explosives for you to see my point here. Yes no Maybe?
I don't like the young offenders act either. I think it's the biggest Joke and a total embarrassment to our society.
Falsehoods my ass.
Comments
I spent today reflecting on the fates of his many victims (9/11 and pre btw) and took comfort in the knowledge that he will hurt no more, but with humility not elation.
I was just listening to an interview with a woman who lost a daughter in 9/11, and she said much the same. Was she happy that he wouldn't hurt anyone else? Yes. Was she glad that this may lead to greater peace and safety on earth? Yes. Did it bring her daughter back? No. Did she feel justice was served? No.
I'm not one to cheer for someone dying, and quite frankly, shame on those that do.
Mark
Interesting logic...faulty but interesting. Guilty by association after death.
I have to partially agree. While joy isn't the word....the violence begets violence* stuff is faulty. Because he is dead he is not planning any more death. The fact that some people will use his death as an excuse for martyrdom doesn't reduce the fact that a huge threat is gone.
*there are definitely cases where killing the culprit ended the killing....
Yes, but for years now Bin Laden has been little more than a toothless figurehead. There is no doubt in my mind his murder will result in the rage of his numerous disciples causing much more future damage than a full life of a running scared Bin Laden.
Hitler was an instance of killing the culprit where results were undoubtedly successful...in this instance I have serious doubt.
Al Qaeda has always been about independent cells with no centralized organization. Bin Laden has been hiding out like you said, but all the other "AQ in ______" cells have still been operational. There may be a minimal surge in activity after this news, but I do not think there will be anything "new" as a result of his death.
Aug 23, 1996 – Osama declares holy war against US, signs a Declaration of jihad from Afghanistan titled: ‘Message from Osama bin Laden to his Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula.’
Osama bin Laden timeline
How is it murder when the one who declares war, and in fact is the general of his army is killed?
Please explain?
Brent
Semantics
For this argument to work then a certain Canadian combatant in Guantanamo Bay should be released and have all the charges dropped. It also lends credence to Osama's actions being ok....which neither of us agree with.
Wonder if the whole thing with Obama coming out to Hogan's theme music was intentional after him dropping the big leg on Osama?
I will admit I don't know much about the guy you are talking about, but it seems to me if a Canadian, who is fighting for this country which is part of Nato throws a bomb into an American barricks or whatever it was American, which is also part of Nato clearly we have a problem.
Bin Laden started a war and was unable to finish it. Those who feel his death is murder sadly mistaken and don't understand what the war on terror has been about. While I didn't jumb for joy at his death I replayed the interview where he describes in detail who he felt given his engineering background that fullfuel tanks would melt the columns of the trade center bring them down. The glee in his face and thise around him.
I agree that it won't be then end of terrorism, it is hard fighting and idealogical idea, but am not going to lose sleep over his death. He belongs on the same hall of shame as Hitler, Stalin and many other.
Brent
Yeah Brent, you're right. Because I used the word "murder" to describe the act of hunting down a person with the sole intention of shooting him to end his life, I don't have any understanding of the war on terror. Thanks for setting me straight.
In fact if you go back over all the years Bin Laden was receiving money, combat training and weapons and ammunition from the US I guess the act should be termed "asset retrieval".
Should it be more like 'GTFO of my casino'?
Glad I could make it a clearer picture for you!
I assume you are talking about Khadr . . . and I agree, to a point. He is, for better or worse, a Canadian citizen. He should be released from Guantanomo, and tried for premeditated murder here in Canada. If/when he is convicted, he should get whatever sentence is deemed appropriate. I would go with Life w/o parole, as he is definitely a high risk to reoffend.
The greatest game of hide-and-seek ever played, 2001-2011
I got nothin'.
It's not just rednecks though. A large portion of the world is doing this in large groups. While I can't really fault those that do, as I understand the mindset, it's still hard for them to not come off as hypocritical when they villify others for the same actions.
Actually, that's not bad . . . but to be fair, he had help.
Reading through just now and this I love.
so he;d be out....13 year olds get little time plus time served he's out.
Not going to say what I really think here.
Why should we pay for his trial and incarceration?
He tossed the Grenade into the Americans Barracks. Let them take care of it.
As I said, he is a Canadian citizen. So we have to take care of our own.
He was engaged as a combatant against one of our Allies. You could even stretch a case for treason during war time, which would make him Death Penalty eligible. But I do not agree with the Death Penalty.
Give him a parachute and drop him off in the wilderness of Afghanistan and let God decide what happens to him.
It's bad enough that we have to pay for guys like Bernardo, Picton, Williams and that other steaming pant load Olsen. We don't need to start loading up our jails with people like this. Bad enough with the scum I mentioned above.
Omar Khadr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia