The only software on my computer is:
-Windows
-Logitech mouse shit
-Catalyst Control Center
-Google Chrome
-Ventrilo
-Starcraft 2
That said, I had problems on the first try at windows install, same thing as is still happening.
Fans are clear. I don't mean, "yeah they look pretty good", processor is < 3 weeks old, and I clean full box monthly. It is clean.
Desktop.
All hardware is new(ish). Only old part is dvd drive.
I have crashed while playing Starcraft, while loading Starcraft, while staring at plaintext docs, while watching youtube vids, while downloading from IE, downloading from chrome, loading windows, even right after POST.
Updates are current.
The other day I found my ram was running UNDER the rated spec, so boosted the voltage and timings and it has since been more stable. I found that odd though, slower timings and less voltage making a system more flaky.
Heading to work now, will check back later. Thanks in advance for any replies, I'm not ignoring them!
you replaced your processor....? and your asking others? i'd certain double check your motherboard can handle the specs....but not if it was crashing before this (if it wasn't then id consider re seating it, but i know little about replacing a cpu.....(ive done it once or twice though).
if your windows crashed during the install, that in itself could be an issue unless you reformatted the drive and then did another clean installing....
however that and your other issues point to a corrupt or failing hd...and it doesn't matter if its new, many of them are lemons.....
the programs crashing suggest windows corruption or hd failure....
id run a chkdisk and mem test aswell.....and reseat your memory sticks....
and a bios update or flash it back to factory esp if it only acted up when you changed the last settings...
Checkdisk is good. Memtest is good for 12 hour test. Motherboard/processor are compatible. Hdd formatted prior to each windows install. Flashed bios 3x, each different versions.
Checkdisk is good. Memtest is good for 12 hour test. Motherboard/processor are compatible. Hdd formatted prior to each windows install. Flashed bios 3x, each different versions.
weve almost came to the conclusion you know more about computers than me lol......
hmmm ill re read but i think your at the point where you have to try a new hd with a fresh windows, re seat everything, swap for known good memory....
The other day I found my ram was running UNDER the rated spec, so boosted the voltage and timings and it has since been more stable. I found that odd though, slower timings and less voltage making a system more flaky.
Heading to work now, will check back later. Thanks in advance for any replies, I'm not ignoring them!
Hang, assuming you are correct in what you are saying I would suspect perhaps a faulty (or inadequate) power supply or the processor itself. Do NOT play with voltage and timings unless you are VERY familiar with this sort of thing. It's real easy to damage a processor this way. What is your processor temp running at? Is it an AMD? If so it's wwayyyy more sensitive to temp and voltage changes than an Intel.
You are right that it is difficult for me to diagnose this sort of thing via remote support but I'll try to help. One other thing, what antivirus, does it run clean and have you installed and run Malwarebytes yet?
Hang, assuming you are correct in what you are saying I would suspect perhaps a faulty (or inadequate) power supply or the processor itself. Do NOT play with voltage and timings unless you are VERY familiar with this sort of thing. It's real easy to damage a processor this way. What is your processor temp running at? Is it an AMD? If so it's wwayyyy more sensitive to temp and voltage changes than an Intel.
You are right that it is difficult for me to diagnose this sort of thing via remote support but I'll try to help. One other thing, what antivirus, does it run clean and have you installed and run Malwarebytes yet?
I usually run without virus protection/malware software. Risky I know, but between noscript and general safe browsing practices, I haven't had a problem. The only viruses I've downloaded are the ones I knew were viruses.
I just downloaded Malwarebytes now though, did a scan and all was clean.
I forgot to mention the PSU before, thanks. It's a 520W Corsair. Just realized I didn't recalculate consumption for the new cpu...but my peak is still under. A little closer than I'd like, but under. I might look into getting a new one and putting this one in my old box. No faults, +3.3 is at 3.328, +12 at 11.858.
Yes, AMD and ATI. Been a loyal supporter since 2000ish. System temp is 45C, CPU 44C. I understand the risks of playing with the voltage/timings/clock and am familiar with it.
Edit: just realized the huge thread hijack - sorry guys, will take this to pm's from here on, or start a new thread
If you have some time, I'd like you to check out the programs and processes that start running when I first boot up my computer. I can't believe there needs to be that many running. Let me know when you have some time. Thanks.
If you have some time, I'd like you to check out the programs and processes that start running when I first boot up my computer. I can't believe there needs to be that many running. Let me know when you have some time. Thanks.
Yes, AMD and ATI. Been a loyal supporter since 2000ish. System temp is 45C, CPU 44C. I understand the risks of playing with the voltage/timings/clock and am familiar with it.
Well if you are an avid AMD'er you will know the danger of over clocking/over voltaging AMD processors. Perhaps you have already damaged the processor.
What I use to do when playing around with AMD's and overclocking, circa 90-95 I used to run them stock for at least a month before trying anything else. That way I knew if it was something I likely caused.
Your power supply looks to be enough depending on what video card you are driving but never can tell. Also you may want to download and run Microsoft Security Essentials to verify that you really don't have a virus. It's free. Uninstall it after if you really don't want to keep it but at least we'll know we're virus and spyware free.
So this locks up even running things other than your game correct?
Just going out shortly, be back by 9. If you want me to have a look at your pc's send me a pm with a phone # to reach you after that. I'll try and resolve as many as I can.
Just going out shortly, be back by 9. If you want me to have a look at your pc's send me a pm with a phone # to reach you after that. I'll try and resolve as many as I can.
I can wait. My PC has been useless for over 2 years, it can wait a few days!
This is going to be a long one, I'll go through the full story of my trials and tribulations for a full background of what I have, what I've tried, etc.
The first computer I bought fully myself was in early 2004, with plans on upgrading piece by piece as money and technology allowed. Well it turned out my timing was off, there was a good jump in technology soon after purchase (PCIe) which kind of threw off my plans. No real worries, this rig held up well enough until 2009ish.
May 2009, I had the cash and desire to do more than I was doing (video transcoding, frapsing, turning up settings in games) and Windows 7 was coming out (I fucking hated Vista, never used it), so I took the plunge. System specs:
-Corsair HX520W power supply
-AMD Phenom II X3 720BE
-Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P
-Mushkin DDR3-1600MHz 4GB(2x2GB) HP Series - Cas 8-8-8-24 (1.8-1.9V)
-Sapphire Radeon HD4870 1GB GDDR5
I put it all together, installed Windows 7 64bit (at that time it was a release candidate), had crashes. Chalked it up to an "unpolished" Windows, tried 32-bit and XP, same thing. Change things as I may, kept crashing randomly - sometimes loading Windows, sometimes doing something after login, or sometimes I log in, do what I need and shut down with no problems whatsoever.
At this point I:
-tested the memory, no errors over a 12hr test.
-tried a HDD from the old computer, that I had used with no errors for 5 years previously, no go.
-fiddled with various settings/onboard features in BIOS (in hindsight, not the DRAM voltage), nope.
-set memory timings slightly slower than spec (9-9-9-24), should be fine for stability, no dice.
-memtested each stick separately, just a few passes. Tried each DIMM slot.
-flashed BIOS twice, different versions (I realize I said 3x earlier, but should clarify I only tried three versions)
I got a bit pissed, said maybe it's hardware or maybe it's the RC Windows, but either way it didn't really matter because I got a job that kept me away from home save for the weekends, and then I was usually sleeping or drinking.
Fast forward to Jan. 2011, got pushed to a part-time position and have way too much time on my hands. WAY. TOO. MUCH. Decide I need to fix this computer problem, because I also want to play Starcraft 2 (Blizzard fanboy since Warcraft 2). Get my hands on a copy of windows, no longer beta, and a new processor as well - AMD Phenom II 965BE - because it's been almost 2 years, why the hell not. I can also either rule out a faulty processor and have a spare, or all my problems will be fixed, RMA the 720 and have a spare. Or sell it, I guess.
-Install Windows first time.
-Noobed up the installation a bit, accidentally installed a certain Windows automatic update I shouldn't have, reformat and reinstall.
-Computer hangs during installation. Motherfu....
-Reformat and reinstall. Installation successful.
-Haven't connected to the internet yet. System locks up, same as 2009.
-Reboot many times, sometimes locks up on Windows load, sometimes it restarts itself going through POST, sometimes I log in.
I suppose I should describe this lock-up, too:
-There's no blue screen, no error messages.
-Everything just stops, screen doesn't go blank, is just static.
-About 75% of the time, it's accompanied by a buzzing/white noise/static in headphones, the rest of the time it's silent.
-No ctrl-alt-del, no keyboard input, no mouse input.
-HDD stops spinning, I can tell from indicator light and sound.
-Upon hard boot and reload, no events in Windows event viewer except a critical error that the last shutdown was improper, but that's generated when it starts back up, not when it actually crashes.
So that's the story.
The other day I upped the voltage of just the RAM - No CPU voltage, no northbridge voltage, no clock speeds at all. The only change was the voltage going to the DIMM slots. And still, not a lot - it was defaulted to 1.6V, timings of 9-9-9-24, 1333MHz. I put it up to 1.7V, timings of 8-8-8-24, 1333MHz. It's rated to run at 1.8-1.9V, timings of 8-8-8-24, 1600MHz with a lifetime warranty. I have so far seen a bit of a stability increase, but prime95 still failed after about 12 minutes. Maybe I'll up it another 0.1V and see? I really don't see how it would be so flaky at the settings the BIOS defaulted to, and why the default voltage is so far lower.
I understand your hesitation about upping voltages and temperature and such, but AMD chips have come a fair way since the problems with their first few generations. Plus, both the chips used are black editions, with unlocked multipliers. This is AMD's way of saying, "We know people are going to push their systems, and these chips can do it, but you're on your own". Even stock cooling can support a small overclock, I was surprised when I saw the stock heatsink even had copper heat pipes.
I'll do a scan with that MSE, but remain skeptical as the problems were around before any network connections were made. That said, at this point I am going to try anything, and really appreciate any help offered.
Yikes, thanks and congratulations if you got all the way through that.
TL;DR - I am seconds away from throwing this shit right out the window and buying completely new.
Wow, nice detailed post. You have done wayyyy more than I would attempt these days... lol.. although did lots of that in the 80's and 90's. Hardware has just got so cheap, fast and reliable now that hardly seems worth it unless you just love doing it for the sake of doing it...
You are right it doesn't sound like sotware at all. Is this the same motherboard? Perhaps it was bad from the start? Which parts are the same through this whole process?
it also almost proves the hd is not the issue, and makes it very unlikely.
i don't know about the voltages and stuff but id assume for now they aren't the issue from your steps...
it def seems like some sort of hard ware issue. def fits a faulty fan problem but you seem confident its not.
ive seen things like this with faulty ide cables (definitely happens), youd have to swap with known good.
could be a faulty card, for this you would try running without certain hardware, dvd player etc. physically uninstalled...
a long shot is to check the jumper settings on your drives (and even change them) and your cable settings in the bios....and even jumpers on the motherboard (i think)....cause they can produce weird things off they aren't accuretly set....
another longer shot is a failing power supply but i think you said its new....
and def reseat everything, swap the memory spots, change the cards in the slots they are in, swap ide cables. for example a half seated video card (well like 90% seated) can produce random crashes at post and after post....
when youve done that your close to pointing at the motherboard...
I am going to wait, Jeff. I'm in the midst of a downswing tonight and may not have a computer by the end of the night.
Maybe you guys can get together and swap? If DJ has yours he won't be able to play and lose any more money and if you have his you won't have hardware issues. (as long as you get to him before..... well you know.)
Maybe you guys can get together and swap? If DJ has yours he won't be able to play and lose any more money and if you have his you won't have hardware issues. (as long as you get to him before..... well you know.)
ive seen things like this with faulty ide cables (definitely happens), youd have to swap with known good.
Only IDE cable is going to DVD drive, and I took the one from my old box because it looks nicer. The one that came with the new motherboard was fucking lime green or something.
could be a faulty card, for this you would try running without certain hardware, dvd player etc. physically uninstalled...
That big friggin post and I left this out. Yes, I've run without the optical drive. That and the wireless card are all that I can run without, as there's no onboard video. Wireless card was installed after Windows install.
a long shot is to check the jumper settings on your drives (and even change them) and your cable settings in the bios....and even jumpers on the motherboard (i think)....cause they can produce weird things off they aren't accuretly set....
It's a SATA drive, so there are no jumpers. Only motherboard jumper is clear CMOS.
and def reseat everything, swap the memory spots, change the cards in the slots they are in, swap ide cables. for example a half seated video card (well like 90% seated) can produce random crashes at post and after post....
I tried all the valid configurations of memory slots, and the little clippy on the video card is fully clippy'd.
when youve done that your close to pointing at the motherboard...
Ugh I know, but it's usually the most solid component, and so rarely has problems. And when there are problems, it's usually pretty obvious, like chassis contact or some visibly blown capacitor or something.
@Comp - motherboard, ram, psu, hdd, graphics, dvd have all been the same throughout.
Sigh, maybe I'll just RMA every single component and see who admits their product is the faulty one. I think it's all still under warranty.
Comments
you replaced your processor....? and your asking others? i'd certain double check your motherboard can handle the specs....but not if it was crashing before this (if it wasn't then id consider re seating it, but i know little about replacing a cpu.....(ive done it once or twice though).
if your windows crashed during the install, that in itself could be an issue unless you reformatted the drive and then did another clean installing....
however that and your other issues point to a corrupt or failing hd...and it doesn't matter if its new, many of them are lemons.....
the programs crashing suggest windows corruption or hd failure....
id run a chkdisk and mem test aswell.....and reseat your memory sticks....
and a bios update or flash it back to factory esp if it only acted up when you changed the last settings...
weve almost came to the conclusion you know more about computers than me lol......
hmmm ill re read but i think your at the point where you have to try a new hd with a fresh windows, re seat everything, swap for known good memory....
You are right that it is difficult for me to diagnose this sort of thing via remote support but I'll try to help. One other thing, what antivirus, does it run clean and have you installed and run Malwarebytes yet?
Hey Mr. Assistant, can you tell me where the fourth wire goes?
LOL, potd...
I usually run without virus protection/malware software. Risky I know, but between noscript and general safe browsing practices, I haven't had a problem. The only viruses I've downloaded are the ones I knew were viruses.
I just downloaded Malwarebytes now though, did a scan and all was clean.
I forgot to mention the PSU before, thanks. It's a 520W Corsair. Just realized I didn't recalculate consumption for the new cpu...but my peak is still under. A little closer than I'd like, but under. I might look into getting a new one and putting this one in my old box. No faults, +3.3 is at 3.328, +12 at 11.858.
Yes, AMD and ATI. Been a loyal supporter since 2000ish. System temp is 45C, CPU 44C. I understand the risks of playing with the voltage/timings/clock and am familiar with it.
Edit: just realized the huge thread hijack - sorry guys, will take this to pm's from here on, or start a new thread
If you have some time, I'd like you to check out the programs and processes that start running when I first boot up my computer. I can't believe there needs to be that many running. Let me know when you have some time. Thanks.
lol, no threadjack, please continue...
No need to do that. You guys will forget more about computers than I will ever know.
How about right now?
Now, or later after 9? I'm out between 7-9
Well if you are an avid AMD'er you will know the danger of over clocking/over voltaging AMD processors. Perhaps you have already damaged the processor.
What I use to do when playing around with AMD's and overclocking, circa 90-95 I used to run them stock for at least a month before trying anything else. That way I knew if it was something I likely caused.
Your power supply looks to be enough depending on what video card you are driving but never can tell. Also you may want to download and run Microsoft Security Essentials to verify that you really don't have a virus. It's free. Uninstall it after if you really don't want to keep it but at least we'll know we're virus and spyware free.
So this locks up even running things other than your game correct?
Just about to eat supper then I have a quick appointment at the vet. Any time after 7:30pm is good.
Me too?
I can wait. My PC has been useless for over 2 years, it can wait a few days!
The first computer I bought fully myself was in early 2004, with plans on upgrading piece by piece as money and technology allowed. Well it turned out my timing was off, there was a good jump in technology soon after purchase (PCIe) which kind of threw off my plans. No real worries, this rig held up well enough until 2009ish.
May 2009, I had the cash and desire to do more than I was doing (video transcoding, frapsing, turning up settings in games) and Windows 7 was coming out (I fucking hated Vista, never used it), so I took the plunge. System specs:
-Corsair HX520W power supply
-AMD Phenom II X3 720BE
-Gigabyte GA-MA790XT-UD4P
-Mushkin DDR3-1600MHz 4GB(2x2GB) HP Series - Cas 8-8-8-24 (1.8-1.9V)
-Sapphire Radeon HD4870 1GB GDDR5
I put it all together, installed Windows 7 64bit (at that time it was a release candidate), had crashes. Chalked it up to an "unpolished" Windows, tried 32-bit and XP, same thing. Change things as I may, kept crashing randomly - sometimes loading Windows, sometimes doing something after login, or sometimes I log in, do what I need and shut down with no problems whatsoever.
At this point I:
-tested the memory, no errors over a 12hr test.
-tried a HDD from the old computer, that I had used with no errors for 5 years previously, no go.
-fiddled with various settings/onboard features in BIOS (in hindsight, not the DRAM voltage), nope.
-set memory timings slightly slower than spec (9-9-9-24), should be fine for stability, no dice.
-memtested each stick separately, just a few passes. Tried each DIMM slot.
-flashed BIOS twice, different versions (I realize I said 3x earlier, but should clarify I only tried three versions)
I got a bit pissed, said maybe it's hardware or maybe it's the RC Windows, but either way it didn't really matter because I got a job that kept me away from home save for the weekends, and then I was usually sleeping or drinking.
Fast forward to Jan. 2011, got pushed to a part-time position and have way too much time on my hands. WAY. TOO. MUCH. Decide I need to fix this computer problem, because I also want to play Starcraft 2 (Blizzard fanboy since Warcraft 2). Get my hands on a copy of windows, no longer beta, and a new processor as well - AMD Phenom II 965BE - because it's been almost 2 years, why the hell not. I can also either rule out a faulty processor and have a spare, or all my problems will be fixed, RMA the 720 and have a spare. Or sell it, I guess.
-Install Windows first time.
-Noobed up the installation a bit, accidentally installed a certain Windows automatic update I shouldn't have, reformat and reinstall.
-Computer hangs during installation. Motherfu....
-Reformat and reinstall. Installation successful.
-Haven't connected to the internet yet. System locks up, same as 2009.
-Reboot many times, sometimes locks up on Windows load, sometimes it restarts itself going through POST, sometimes I log in.
I suppose I should describe this lock-up, too:
-There's no blue screen, no error messages.
-Everything just stops, screen doesn't go blank, is just static.
-About 75% of the time, it's accompanied by a buzzing/white noise/static in headphones, the rest of the time it's silent.
-No ctrl-alt-del, no keyboard input, no mouse input.
-HDD stops spinning, I can tell from indicator light and sound.
-Upon hard boot and reload, no events in Windows event viewer except a critical error that the last shutdown was improper, but that's generated when it starts back up, not when it actually crashes.
So that's the story.
The other day I upped the voltage of just the RAM - No CPU voltage, no northbridge voltage, no clock speeds at all. The only change was the voltage going to the DIMM slots. And still, not a lot - it was defaulted to 1.6V, timings of 9-9-9-24, 1333MHz. I put it up to 1.7V, timings of 8-8-8-24, 1333MHz. It's rated to run at 1.8-1.9V, timings of 8-8-8-24, 1600MHz with a lifetime warranty. I have so far seen a bit of a stability increase, but prime95 still failed after about 12 minutes. Maybe I'll up it another 0.1V and see? I really don't see how it would be so flaky at the settings the BIOS defaulted to, and why the default voltage is so far lower.
I understand your hesitation about upping voltages and temperature and such, but AMD chips have come a fair way since the problems with their first few generations. Plus, both the chips used are black editions, with unlocked multipliers. This is AMD's way of saying, "We know people are going to push their systems, and these chips can do it, but you're on your own". Even stock cooling can support a small overclock, I was surprised when I saw the stock heatsink even had copper heat pipes.
I'll do a scan with that MSE, but remain skeptical as the problems were around before any network connections were made. That said, at this point I am going to try anything, and really appreciate any help offered.
Yikes, thanks and congratulations if you got all the way through that.
TL;DR - I am seconds away from throwing this shit right out the window and buying completely new.
You are right it doesn't sound like sotware at all. Is this the same motherboard? Perhaps it was bad from the start? Which parts are the same through this whole process?
it also almost proves the hd is not the issue, and makes it very unlikely.
i don't know about the voltages and stuff but id assume for now they aren't the issue from your steps...
it def seems like some sort of hard ware issue. def fits a faulty fan problem but you seem confident its not.
ive seen things like this with faulty ide cables (definitely happens), youd have to swap with known good.
could be a faulty card, for this you would try running without certain hardware, dvd player etc. physically uninstalled...
a long shot is to check the jumper settings on your drives (and even change them) and your cable settings in the bios....and even jumpers on the motherboard (i think)....cause they can produce weird things off they aren't accuretly set....
another longer shot is a failing power supply but i think you said its new....
and def reseat everything, swap the memory spots, change the cards in the slots they are in, swap ide cables. for example a half seated video card (well like 90% seated) can produce random crashes at post and after post....
when youve done that your close to pointing at the motherboard...
ut oh, if you throw it through the window I amy not be able to connect to it...
Maybe you guys can get together and swap? If DJ has yours he won't be able to play and lose any more money and if you have his you won't have hardware issues. (as long as you get to him before..... well you know.)
Hahahaha, POTD.
Only IDE cable is going to DVD drive, and I took the one from my old box because it looks nicer. The one that came with the new motherboard was fucking lime green or something.
That big friggin post and I left this out. Yes, I've run without the optical drive. That and the wireless card are all that I can run without, as there's no onboard video. Wireless card was installed after Windows install.
It's a SATA drive, so there are no jumpers. Only motherboard jumper is clear CMOS.
Yes, and running within the +/- 2% tolerance generally allowed.
I tried all the valid configurations of memory slots, and the little clippy on the video card is fully clippy'd.
Ugh I know, but it's usually the most solid component, and so rarely has problems. And when there are problems, it's usually pretty obvious, like chassis contact or some visibly blown capacitor or something.
@Comp - motherboard, ram, psu, hdd, graphics, dvd have all been the same throughout.
Sigh, maybe I'll just RMA every single component and see who admits their product is the faulty one. I think it's all still under warranty.