If you want to play for a long time with $100, just place the 6 and 8. As long as you have action on the table before your turn to roll, they will pass you the dice. Then go nuts and make your $5 pass line bet and max odds when it is your roll.
Note: if the 6 or 8 hits then I usually take down my bet to lock in my winnings on that roll. If you let it stay then you have bet $12 and won $7 and if you don't hit another 6 or 8 before sevening out then you lose $5. If you hit the 6 or 8 and take the bet down, then you have $6 left on the table but you are up $1. Place bets can be taken on or off anytime you want. Pass/come bets have to stay until the point is made or seven out.
What Moose said - with $100 you can't justify putting $42~ out there on one roll. When it's not your roll, just place the 6 and 8, so you at least lock down $7 from the $12 on the table so at the worst you lose $5, and start doing a variation of 13Card's system where you should press/parlay up to the table max.
See how much of a noob I am? I didn't even consider lowering (or raising) my odds. I always just put X2 behind the pass line no matter what. So far I have been betting $6 on 6 and 8, $5 on the pass line and $10 behind for odds, or $27 per roll. (Writing that down kinda shocked me. No wonder I lost $70 in a few rolls)
So should I always be taking the MAX odds then? I don't think I'm at that level of degen yet. Assuming I have $6 on 6 and 8, $5 on the pass line and $25 behind for odds that's $42 on each bet. Tough for me to gamble almost half my buy in.
Should I be buying in for more to ride the variance or not betting so much?
If you're going to bet about $27 each roll...
Rather than betting $6 on the 6 and 8 (-1.5% => 2*$0.90=-$.18ev) and $5 on the pass line (-1.4%=> -$.07) and $10 behind on odds (0%=>$0.00) for an total expected value of (-$.25)...
Try betting just $5 on the pass line and putting more money in free odds, $20 or $25 or $26 in free odds. This way your expected value is only -$.07 rather than -$.25.
You get to gamble the same amount of money but you'll lose on average less than one third of the money if you cut out the place bets on the 6 and 8.
The will give you a better chance of winning on average.
Just saw this thread... thanks to those posting advice on the best odds/plays to make. I love playing craps... I was always aware of the house edge, but to me it is the excitement of the table and getting everyone to cheer for everyone else.
I used to play a ton of blackjack but it gets so boring... So, craps (and some roullette) are my gambling variances away from poker. I rarely made money, probably out of 10 sessions, 8 are losing sessions, but if you join a fun table, it can be a blast. I recall joining one table after dinner at the Bellagio once where everyone had been drinking and I was rather primed myself... the whole table had fun and several shooters had some heaters where everyone was doing well.
I would also mainly play the pass line and 6, 8, and 9. When I rolled I would throw out the odd $6 "seven on the hop" bet, pretending to sound like I knew what I was doing... When I was not rolling I often played the field, but I see that is a 44% chance of winning and only the 2/12 pay 2-1.
Rather than betting $6 on the 6 and 8 (-1.5% => 2*$0.90=-$.18ev) and $5 on the pass line (-1.4%=> -$.07) and $10 behind on odds (0%=>$0.00) for an total expected value of (-$.25)...
Try betting just $5 on the pass line and putting more money in free odds, $20 or $25 or $26 in free odds. This way your expected value is only -$.07 rather than -$.25.
You get to gamble the same amount of money but you'll lose on average less than one third of the money if you cut out the place bets on the 6 and 8.
The will give you a better chance of winning on average.
Nit
Personally for rec players, I recommend spreading out their bets across more numbers and take the slight hit in EV but increase the enjoyment level.
Personally for rec players, I recommend spreading out their bets across more numbers and take the slight hit in EV but increase the enjoyment level.
I don't disagree with spreading your bets out across more numbers. I just think that using place bets is not the most cost effective way to make bets. Come bets are much better than place bets by far.
I'd rather use Come (-1.4%) bets rather than place bets to put money on numbers. Then I put full odds on the number (-0.326% for 5x odds). This is much better than placing the 5/9 (-4%) or 4/10 (-6.67%). It's slightly better than placing the 6/8 (-1.5%).
I try to put as much of the money I want to gamble on free odds as possible.
Winning money increases my enjoyment level.
Win more money/Lose less money. Don't make place bets. Especially avoid place bets on the outside numbers (the 5/9 or 4/10).
Place either the 6 or 8 for $18.
When it hits, take the $21. You are now freerollin' up $3, even if your Place Bet loses.
When it hits again, PRESS (which means "double") your bet to $36. Net +$6.
When it hits again, PARLAY (which means "add it all and let it ride") to $78. Net +$6 still.
When it hits again, GO TO (which means "make the bet look like") $150. Net +$25.
When it hits, PRESS to $300. Net +$50.
When it hits, PRESS to $600. Net +$100.
When it hits, REDUCE to $300. Net +$1,100.
After that, just PRESS everytime until you hit Table Max.
OR
Bet $1 on either Hard 6 or Hard 8.
If it hits, PARLAY to $10.
If it hits, PARLAY to $100.
If it hits, $1,000 and DOWN!!!!
I play the first way.
Got as far as the $150 tonight. We'll see how long it takes to get to the reduce to $300. (net $1100)
Long term it makes no difference. A deep pocketed degen could just make a come bet with max odds every roll. Remember each roll of the dice is independent of the previous. The odds of winning will remain the same with each bet.
If I am running well I will make a pass line bet and two more come bets and place the 6 and 8 so depending on what rolls, I will cover as few as 3 numbers and as many as 5 at a time. Depending on how I feel I will roll that money off the table or replace winning bets with another come bet.
Otherwise I might make just one come bet or even just the pass bet. I think you have to mix it up - even though long term it makes no difference what-so-ever. But if you make exactly the same bets all the time it gets too mechanical and dull, which is why BJ eventually became too boring for me.
I know that. Do you play the come? How many times? Always with odds?
Odds
Come (and don't come) bets are good because you can place odds.
I know this has been mentioned before but I want to emphasize.
The free odds bet is the best bet in craps. They aren't exactly free since you have to make a pass/don't pass/come/don't come bet.
You want as much of your craps gambling to be with a zero house edge as possible.
Combining Free odds with Pass/Come bets makes craps a lower house odds game than say, Baccarat (1.06%HA).
If you play pass/come DP/DC (1.4%HA) and you don't take odds, then you're better off playing Banker at Baccarat (1.06%HA) from a house advantage perspective.
You're better off making come bets with odds rather than making place bets on the 6 and 8 (1.5%HA).
Of course odds bets won't effect the expected value of your Pass or Come bets. They won't increase your chances of winning your pass line bets. The free odds are a good deal for money that you were going to bet anyways. So make free odds bets, rather than bet something else.
For example:
Make fewer larger come+odds bet combo's, rather than lots of little place bets on the 6 and 8.
Rather than Placing the 8 five times for $6, You're better off making a come bet($5) with full 5x odds for the same amount of money that you risk by making the place bets. So rather betting $30 total on five place bets and losing $.09*5=$.45, you're only losing $.07 on the come bet and nothing on the free odds.
The above also applies to the pass/don't pass/don't come bets with odds.
Won $275 at BCC today. Played the 13cards press the 6 deal from $18 up to $78, hit it for the $150+ score then realized max bet was $100 so I took it off the table instead. Then the guy sevened out before it hit again so lucky me.
Won $275 at BCC today. Played the 13cards press the 6 deal from $18 up to $78, hit it for the $150+ score then realized max bet was $100 so I took it off the table instead. Then the guy sevened out before it hit again so lucky me.
Craps table tonight was ABSOLUTELY SICK at BCC. Was on the way out and heard a great roar at the table so I swung by to have a pop and watch a bit.
Didn't want to play because I had ground out a nice win at poker after a losing craps session earlier. But roll after roll was hitting. People were betting table max all over the place and making thousands. One guy filled his entire rack and had to start putting the extra hundreds in his pocket. He had at least 10k in the tray. Saw another guy colour up 6k and put it away because the table was running out of hundreds. All the floor bosses were watching.
So I finally break down and buy in and of course I'm the only guy at the table to lose money because I only have 6 and 8 and this chick is rolling 4 10 4 5 9 10 4 10 9 5 roll after roll. She finally sevens and it was now 2:30 am and the table was supposed to close 30 min earlier. So everyone is begging and pleading to keep the table open so the floor decides to extend the hours.
Everyone starts going crazy and agrees to completely pass on shooting the dice completely around the table to give the dice back to this chick. I have never seen that before. Of course another great roll ensues so I make back my money and she sevens out after hitting the 4 and the 10 for me and I'm up $135 so I'm happy. But I've only ever seen them have to call for a table fill one time and this was so close. They literally had 2 stacks of purple left and about 6 stacks of black and the green, red and white were almost totally gone. I have not seen the box so empty of chips in a long long time. This chick was hitting every hardway and there was at least a grand riding on all the hardways, with one guy betting table max on every hardway. Totally nuts. I had the best time!
My epic roll in craps tonight. Made six points. I use the purple chips to mark the points made. Played the 13cards press the 6 and 8 strategy. Ran the 6 up to $600 and hit it, reduced to $300 and hit again. Ran the 8 to $600 but didn't hit again. Varied the pass/come bets between $5 and $30 with 5x odds.
Winnings are stacked to the left of the $1s behind the stick.
My epic roll in craps tonight. Made six points. I use the purple chips to mark the points made. Played the 13cards press the 6 and 8 strategy. Ran the 6 up to $600 and hit it, reduced to $300 and hit again. Ran the 8 to $600 but didn't hit again. Varied the pass/come bets between $5 and $30 with 5x odds.
Winnings are stacked to the left of the $1s behind the stick.
Place either the 6 or 8 for $18.
When it hits, take the $21. You are now freerollin' up $3, even if your Place Bet loses.
When it hits again, PRESS (which means "double") your bet to $36. Net +$6.
When it hits again, PARLAY (which means "add it all and let it ride") to $78. Net +$6 still.
When it hits again, GO TO (which means "make the bet look like") $150. Net +$25.
When it hits, PRESS to $300. Net +$50.
When it hits, PRESS to $600. Net +$100.
When it hits, REDUCE to $300. Net +$1,100.
After that, just PRESS everytime until you hit Table Max.
Thanks to 13 cards for putting the above system up.
I like the above system.
If you play the above system you will be playing better than 99% of craps players.
If you use 13Cards system you will be giving the house a 1.51% advantage.
If you are betting small amounts it doesn't matter very much if you make place 6/8 bets or pass/come bets. The advantage of pass/come bets over place6/8 bets is trivial pennies when the bets are small ... ($5pass=-$.07EV vs $6place6/8=-$.09EV).
But when you start to bet larger sums placing the 6/8 gets more expensive. ($100pass+$500odds=-$1.41 EV vs $600 place6/8=-$9.06 EV
When the bets are larger at a 5x odds game, place 6/8 betting is over 4x as expensive in HA as Pass/Come betting with max odds.(0.326% vs 1.51%)
When playing at somewhere like Brantford that has a $100 max bet Plus $500 odds bet I suggest you switch to making come/pass bets with 5x(max) odds. This way you pay less (0.326% vs 1.51%) house advantage. Therefore you will make more money/lose less on average.
Modified 13cards system Version 2.0 for playing at places like Brantford ($100max bet +$500 odds bet).
Make a $5 pass/come bet and take $15 odds if the point is 4,6,8 or 10(or max odds) Take $16 odds if the point is 5 or 9 (or max odds $26)
When it hits, take the $. You are now freerollin', even if your Bet loses.
Make another $5 pass/come bet and take $15 odds if the point is 4,6,8 or 10(or max odds) Take $16 odds if the point is 5 or 9 (or max odds $26)
When it hits again, PRESS (which means "double") $6 come/pass bet, with $30 odds
When it hits again, PARLAY (which means "add it all and let it ride") to $12 Come/pass bet with $60 odds.
When it hits again, GO TO (which means "make the bet look like") ($25 Come/pass then take $125 odds). If the point is 5/9 take $126 odds.
When it hits, PRESS to ($50 come/pass , $250 odds).
When it hits, PRESS to ($100 come/pass, $500 odds). .
When it hits, REDUCE to ($50 come/pass , $250 odds).
After that, just add another $100 come bet with full odds every time until you cover all the numbers at Table Max. $3600 down.
One caveat about Brantford - the ev on the place bets never gets that large because $100 is the largest place bet, however I assume Brantford lets you make a $100 pass bet with $500 odds. I should ask next time.
I think it would be a lot of fun to play that way at Brantford because you would certainly look like a big time balla' betting table max with $500 odds.
Reef what's your feeling on turning odds on on a come out roll? I know this is slightly in the house's favour if you don't but on the other hand statistically if a seven has to eventually come, you can extend the winnings a lot further if the seven happens to roll on a come out roll. The ev difference is minimal and it is a soul killer when the seven rolls when you have odds working.
One caveat about Brantford - the ev on the place bets never gets that large because $100 is the largest place bet, however I assume Brantford lets you make a $100 pass bet with $500 odds. I should ask next time.
I think it would be a lot of fun to play that way at Brantford because you would certainly look like a big time balla' betting table max with $500 odds.
Yes, at Brantford you can bet $100 pass line with $500 odds or $100 don't pass with $1000 odds. That's one of the reasons the system I suggested does not make big place bets (you can't make place bets over $100 at Brantford).
Reef what's your feeling on turning odds on on a come out roll? I know this is slightly in the house's favour if you don't but on the other hand statistically if a seven has to eventually come, you can extend the winnings a lot further if the seven happens to roll on a come out roll. The ev difference is minimal and it is a soul killer when the seven rolls when you have odds working.
It depends what your objective is.
As you correctly pointed out, you need to decide if you want to minimize the house advantage by a small amount, or maximize your time playing?
Personally I like to keep them working, but only you can decide if you want them on or off.
But ... If I'm there to gamble, I'd rather make more bets at 0% house advantage, than make bets at 1.41% house advantage. I'm not there to maximize my playing time.
On a related note: Most craps players don't play with minimal house advantage. How many people do you see taking advantage of 10x, 20x, 100x, 500x free odds when they are offered?
Ok after at least 50 rolls - it's tough. The main problem is that to get a point you have to roll it first and then hit it again. If you place a point, you only have to hit it once to break even. You could just play a pass line but then you are expecting the shooter to make 7 points - really tough. I tried playing a pass line bet and two come bets but since you keep rolling the winnings into larger bets it's tough to get ahead of the initial outlay.
Will keep trying, though I've gotten to the $50 flat and $250 behind only a couple times and never hit.
Although I did play today at Brantford, playing 2-3 points at a time. After a brutal orbit of every player making a point and immediately sevening out - the dice finally make it back to me. I put my last $100 in so that I can make some bets - grit my teeth and resolve to bet everything until I am down to the felt (-$400). Well I make 4 points - 4, 5,6, 10 which pays the fire bet and come out on the 9 for a 5th point but alas don't make that one, which I think paid 250 to 1 or something. I don't make fire bets but a few people made money on the 4 pointer and everyone was very happy after such a brutal orbit, especially with making 4 easy and hard 10.
Started with the 5/25 then 6/30 and 12/60. Didn't have the balls to go to 25/125, which would have hit on the last point of 10 and I did make the 12/60 a couple times on a few numbers so it was a great roll. So I rolled my last hundo into $540 and cashed out a purple. My first BCC purple! I so love craps.
Strangely enough I just came from my basement where I had a 7 point roll, so I finally did hit a 100/500 and reduced to 50/250. Profit on that roll was 1266. So after 105 rolls I am up +85 on this system.
However in that time I also hit a $600 placed 6 or 8 three times. So on my biggest two rolls out of that 105 rolls the tally is:
13cards............. Reef
1150 (approx)..... 1266
1880.................. 376 (remember the dice determine what number you play under the Reef system and by luck my money kept landing on other numbers and then subsequently I would hit the 6 or 8 instead, which was placed by the 13cards system and would always win)
Now I haven't been tracking the net of the 13cards system but so far using 13cards' system it just seems easier to hit and the big rolls so far are more profitable.
I'll probably play this system up to 200 rolls or so and see how it goes.
Was at BCC playing tonight walked away up only $20 but man the dealers were S L O W....I wanted to honestly shoot myself....even the rolls that had no action we were waiting 2 minutes for the dice to come out
Comments
Note: if the 6 or 8 hits then I usually take down my bet to lock in my winnings on that roll. If you let it stay then you have bet $12 and won $7 and if you don't hit another 6 or 8 before sevening out then you lose $5. If you hit the 6 or 8 and take the bet down, then you have $6 left on the table but you are up $1. Place bets can be taken on or off anytime you want. Pass/come bets have to stay until the point is made or seven out.
If you're going to bet about $27 each roll...
Rather than betting $6 on the 6 and 8 (-1.5% => 2*$0.90=-$.18ev) and $5 on the pass line (-1.4%=> -$.07) and $10 behind on odds (0%=>$0.00) for an total expected value of (-$.25)...
Try betting just $5 on the pass line and putting more money in free odds, $20 or $25 or $26 in free odds. This way your expected value is only -$.07 rather than -$.25.
You get to gamble the same amount of money but you'll lose on average less than one third of the money if you cut out the place bets on the 6 and 8.
The will give you a better chance of winning on average.
I used to play a ton of blackjack but it gets so boring... So, craps (and some roullette) are my gambling variances away from poker. I rarely made money, probably out of 10 sessions, 8 are losing sessions, but if you join a fun table, it can be a blast. I recall joining one table after dinner at the Bellagio once where everyone had been drinking and I was rather primed myself... the whole table had fun and several shooters had some heaters where everyone was doing well.
I would also mainly play the pass line and 6, 8, and 9. When I rolled I would throw out the odd $6 "seven on the hop" bet, pretending to sound like I knew what I was doing... When I was not rolling I often played the field, but I see that is a 44% chance of winning and only the 2/12 pay 2-1.
Nit
Personally for rec players, I recommend spreading out their bets across more numbers and take the slight hit in EV but increase the enjoyment level.
I don't disagree with spreading your bets out across more numbers. I just think that using place bets is not the most cost effective way to make bets. Come bets are much better than place bets by far.
I'd rather use Come (-1.4%) bets rather than place bets to put money on numbers. Then I put full odds on the number (-0.326% for 5x odds). This is much better than placing the 5/9 (-4%) or 4/10 (-6.67%). It's slightly better than placing the 6/8 (-1.5%).
I try to put as much of the money I want to gamble on free odds as possible.
Winning money increases my enjoyment level.
Win more money/Lose less money. Don't make place bets. Especially avoid place bets on the outside numbers (the 5/9 or 4/10).
Got as far as the $150 tonight. We'll see how long it takes to get to the reduce to $300. (net $1100)
You mean there is someone other than a rec player at craps?? A pro craps player?
Is that what they are calling hardcore degenerates these days? :-)
I know that. Do you play the come? How many times? Always with odds?
If I am running well I will make a pass line bet and two more come bets and place the 6 and 8 so depending on what rolls, I will cover as few as 3 numbers and as many as 5 at a time. Depending on how I feel I will roll that money off the table or replace winning bets with another come bet.
Otherwise I might make just one come bet or even just the pass bet. I think you have to mix it up - even though long term it makes no difference what-so-ever. But if you make exactly the same bets all the time it gets too mechanical and dull, which is why BJ eventually became too boring for me.
Odds
Come (and don't come) bets are good because you can place odds.
I know this has been mentioned before but I want to emphasize.
The free odds bet is the best bet in craps. They aren't exactly free since you have to make a pass/don't pass/come/don't come bet.
You want as much of your craps gambling to be with a zero house edge as possible.
Combining Free odds with Pass/Come bets makes craps a lower house odds game than say, Baccarat (1.06%HA).
If you play pass/come DP/DC (1.4%HA) and you don't take odds, then you're better off playing Banker at Baccarat (1.06%HA) from a house advantage perspective.
You're better off making come bets with odds rather than making place bets on the 6 and 8 (1.5%HA).
Of course odds bets won't effect the expected value of your Pass or Come bets. They won't increase your chances of winning your pass line bets. The free odds are a good deal for money that you were going to bet anyways. So make free odds bets, rather than bet something else.
For example:
Make fewer larger come+odds bet combo's, rather than lots of little place bets on the 6 and 8.
Rather than Placing the 8 five times for $6, You're better off making a come bet($5) with full 5x odds for the same amount of money that you risk by making the place bets. So rather betting $30 total on five place bets and losing $.09*5=$.45, you're only losing $.07 on the come bet and nothing on the free odds.
The above also applies to the pass/don't pass/don't come bets with odds.
Nice hand!
Good timing taking it down at the right time!!!
Didn't want to play because I had ground out a nice win at poker after a losing craps session earlier. But roll after roll was hitting. People were betting table max all over the place and making thousands. One guy filled his entire rack and had to start putting the extra hundreds in his pocket. He had at least 10k in the tray. Saw another guy colour up 6k and put it away because the table was running out of hundreds. All the floor bosses were watching.
So I finally break down and buy in and of course I'm the only guy at the table to lose money because I only have 6 and 8 and this chick is rolling 4 10 4 5 9 10 4 10 9 5 roll after roll. She finally sevens and it was now 2:30 am and the table was supposed to close 30 min earlier. So everyone is begging and pleading to keep the table open so the floor decides to extend the hours.
Everyone starts going crazy and agrees to completely pass on shooting the dice completely around the table to give the dice back to this chick. I have never seen that before. Of course another great roll ensues so I make back my money and she sevens out after hitting the 4 and the 10 for me and I'm up $135 so I'm happy. But I've only ever seen them have to call for a table fill one time and this was so close. They literally had 2 stacks of purple left and about 6 stacks of black and the green, red and white were almost totally gone. I have not seen the box so empty of chips in a long long time. This chick was hitting every hardway and there was at least a grand riding on all the hardways, with one guy betting table max on every hardway. Totally nuts. I had the best time!
Winnings are stacked to the left of the $1s behind the stick.
I make it $3941 in winnings on one roll.
Nice job!!!!
Those new Paulson dice must be hot!
Yeah but with the TV feed working in the basement now, the roll started in the 9th inning and ended after the Jays walkoff win!
Jays+craps = win win
I like the above system.
If you play the above system you will be playing better than 99% of craps players.
If you use 13Cards system you will be giving the house a 1.51% advantage.
If you are betting small amounts it doesn't matter very much if you make place 6/8 bets or pass/come bets. The advantage of pass/come bets over place6/8 bets is trivial pennies when the bets are small ... ($5pass=-$.07EV vs $6place6/8=-$.09EV).
But when you start to bet larger sums placing the 6/8 gets more expensive. ($100pass+$500odds=-$1.41 EV vs $600 place6/8=-$9.06 EV
When the bets are larger at a 5x odds game, place 6/8 betting is over 4x as expensive in HA as Pass/Come betting with max odds.(0.326% vs 1.51%)
When playing at somewhere like Brantford that has a $100 max bet Plus $500 odds bet I suggest you switch to making come/pass bets with 5x(max) odds. This way you pay less (0.326% vs 1.51%) house advantage. Therefore you will make more money/lose less on average.
Modified 13cards system Version 2.0 for playing at places like Brantford ($100max bet +$500 odds bet).
Make a $5 pass/come bet and take $15 odds if the point is 4,6,8 or 10(or max odds) Take $16 odds if the point is 5 or 9 (or max odds $26)
When it hits, take the $. You are now freerollin', even if your Bet loses.
Make another $5 pass/come bet and take $15 odds if the point is 4,6,8 or 10(or max odds) Take $16 odds if the point is 5 or 9 (or max odds $26)
When it hits again, PRESS (which means "double") $6 come/pass bet, with $30 odds
When it hits again, PARLAY (which means "add it all and let it ride") to $12 Come/pass bet with $60 odds.
When it hits again, GO TO (which means "make the bet look like") ($25 Come/pass then take $125 odds). If the point is 5/9 take $126 odds.
When it hits, PRESS to ($50 come/pass , $250 odds).
When it hits, PRESS to ($100 come/pass, $500 odds). .
When it hits, REDUCE to ($50 come/pass , $250 odds).
After that, just add another $100 come bet with full odds every time until you cover all the numbers at Table Max. $3600 down.
What do you guys think?
One caveat about Brantford - the ev on the place bets never gets that large because $100 is the largest place bet, however I assume Brantford lets you make a $100 pass bet with $500 odds. I should ask next time.
I think it would be a lot of fun to play that way at Brantford because you would certainly look like a big time balla' betting table max with $500 odds.
Reef what's your feeling on turning odds on on a come out roll? I know this is slightly in the house's favour if you don't but on the other hand statistically if a seven has to eventually come, you can extend the winnings a lot further if the seven happens to roll on a come out roll. The ev difference is minimal and it is a soul killer when the seven rolls when you have odds working.
Owning your own craps table most be so sick.
It depends what your objective is.
As you correctly pointed out, you need to decide if you want to minimize the house advantage by a small amount, or maximize your time playing?
Personally I like to keep them working, but only you can decide if you want them on or off.
But ... If I'm there to gamble, I'd rather make more bets at 0% house advantage, than make bets at 1.41% house advantage. I'm not there to maximize my playing time.
On a related note: Most craps players don't play with minimal house advantage. How many people do you see taking advantage of 10x, 20x, 100x, 500x free odds when they are offered?
If anyone is going to develop a controlled throw, it's going to be the guy with a craps table.
Will keep trying, though I've gotten to the $50 flat and $250 behind only a couple times and never hit.
Although I did play today at Brantford, playing 2-3 points at a time. After a brutal orbit of every player making a point and immediately sevening out - the dice finally make it back to me. I put my last $100 in so that I can make some bets - grit my teeth and resolve to bet everything until I am down to the felt (-$400). Well I make 4 points - 4, 5,6, 10 which pays the fire bet and come out on the 9 for a 5th point but alas don't make that one, which I think paid 250 to 1 or something. I don't make fire bets but a few people made money on the 4 pointer and everyone was very happy after such a brutal orbit, especially with making 4 easy and hard 10.
Started with the 5/25 then 6/30 and 12/60. Didn't have the balls to go to 25/125, which would have hit on the last point of 10 and I did make the 12/60 a couple times on a few numbers so it was a great roll. So I rolled my last hundo into $540 and cashed out a purple. My first BCC purple! I so love craps.
However in that time I also hit a $600 placed 6 or 8 three times. So on my biggest two rolls out of that 105 rolls the tally is:
13cards............. Reef
1150 (approx)..... 1266
1880.................. 376 (remember the dice determine what number you play under the Reef system and by luck my money kept landing on other numbers and then subsequently I would hit the 6 or 8 instead, which was placed by the 13cards system and would always win)
Now I haven't been tracking the net of the 13cards system but so far using 13cards' system it just seems easier to hit and the big rolls so far are more profitable.
I'll probably play this system up to 200 rolls or so and see how it goes.