Okay, watched D1's video, and re-read the thread. Couple things:
There is a big difference between inter-agency cooperation and the DEA looking for grow-ops in Canada. For one thing, unless working as part of a combined forces operation, DEA agents do not have powers of arrest in this country, and vice versa for Canadian agencies in the USA.
Still waiting for conclusive proof that police officers, or their agents, were acting as agents provocateurs in Toronto thei past weekend. Doubt you will be able to produce any credible evidence.
All I really need to completely dismiss your arguments is an honest answer to this question: Do you think that 9/11 was an inside job, perpetrated by, or with the complicity of, the US government?
I mean, that does seem to be the direction your rationale is heading . . .
just a quick example but just having them around makes me unconfortable whether they work with rcmp in canada or not.
and 9/11? no i think its less complex than that.....the simplicity of it is....we were givin a world as humans and we created 'government' because we couldn't refrain from destroying each other. Governments will never stop that pattern we have to actually stop. Rioting isn't the way but neither is government.
However, if you are in possesion of I think it is more than 6 grams, then you can be arrested and charged with intent to traffic...
it will be sent to and alternative measures program at least in bc....generally even for growing to a certain scale. its illegal to carry an icecream cone in your pants in Alabama they say. I'm sure you not getting arrested for it though. maybe its different cause im in bc
There is not a single message that can be taken from it but a complete lack of respect of those who they say they are trying to give voices to, and all they are doing is having them taken them away. There has been atleast one of these kinds of meetings held out on a boat somewhere to stop the idiocy....hence....no voices to be heard, peaceful or otherwise.
not saying they are correct but some of theses protesters believe this is a an urgent world crisis, one that many people are losing their lives to on a daily basis, hundreds, thousands....through violence, poverty, famine, war. Some people messages is we have to listen now......the message may be wrong but its clear the message is being oppressed
I'll say it again, the violence that occurred Saturday was not about "protest". It was not about globalism, or the environment, or any other G20 related issue. It was an exercise in thuggery as sport. Adventure vandalism, if you will. The G20 summit was merely the excuse for these idiots to kick off their festivities. Sort of an urban "Burning Man" festival for them.
You are so ridiculously correct.. EXCEPT that these people are so deluded that they don't even realize that's what they're doing. They honestly believe in their heart-of-hears that smashing a starbucks window is the catalyst for change.
My 2c on all the protesters of the G20... If you want to change the world, do it via everyday commitments at the local level. That's the real way you change the world. Hard thankless work for the benefit of the downtrodden... Don't pat yourself on the back and believe the job is 'done' because you shouted at some police for a few hours between soy lattes and your parents curfew.
You are so ridiculously correct.. EXCEPT that these people are so deluded that they don't even realize that's what they're doing. They honestly believe in their heart-of-hears that smashing a starbucks window is the catalyst for change.
My 2c on all the protesters of the G20... If you want to change the world, do it via everyday commitments at the local level. That's the real way you change the world. Hard thankless work for the benefit of the downtrodden... Don't pat yourself on the back and believe the job is 'done' because you shouted at some police for a few hours between soy lattes and your parents curfew.
Wha . . .? Z, that was almost . . . well . . . a compliment. I think I need a moment here . . . *sniff* my Mom would be so proud . . .
As for the rest of your post . . . sing it bruthuh . . .
A couple quick points
- The temporary laws that the police passed were not secret at all. They distributed ONE MILLION leaflets and spent $72,000 in advertisements in the national newspapers explaining the temporary laws.
- what happened was supposed to be a protest but ended up being nothing more than a violent riot. No need to refer to protesters, they were rioters.
- the people organizing this demonstration knew full well that several anarchistic and violent organizations would be taking part. Hell I knew and I didn't do any investigative journalism. They made a point of letting the world at large know they would be there.
Any defense of any of this is absurd. If you have issues with the way things are, you don't go out and trash shit just to make people change and do things the way you want them too. I thinks it's fair to say that none of this actually happened because of several people's altruistic desire to help the world. They were motivated by selfish desires and violent urges.
While I am glad this law expires when the Summit does, it is EXACTLY the sort of thing that tempts me to go downtown with no ID whatsoever, specifically to get arrested and challenge the Constitutionality of this execrable legislation.
wasn't there a law on this all along? I recall some law about having ID to prove your identify at all times... can't remember where.
Not too mention, if a much larger terrorist action had occurred resulting in massive loss of life and causing a huge international incident, people would be decrying how enough wasn't done to ensure the delegates and citizens safety.
wasn't there a law on this all along? I recall some law about having ID to prove your identify at all times... can't remember where.
That was sort of what I was trying to get at. They have sufficient law on the books already. If the police have reason to detain you, they are able to require you to identify yourself, and to be able to PROVE that identity. Refusal to do so is a misdemeanour offense, but it means you go to jail, however temporarily.
Not too mention, if a much larger "terrorist" action had occurred resulting in massive loss of life and causing a huge international incident, people would be decrying how enough wasn't done to ensure the delegates and citizens safety.
fyp
anyways no i think theyd continue protesting the world leaders.
And before you continue to fart out useless comments, do you even know what generation "hippies" are from?
Hey.. I resemble that remark! My generation... and we DIDN'T go around practicing violence like that... we were pacifists (ie lovers) not fighters.. lol..
Woodstock, 1969, my final year of college... ahhh, those were the times...
Anyways no i think theyd continue protesting the world leaders.
So you're telling me that if the police didn't take action, the government didn't put a lot of measures in place for safety and there was a terrorist act resulting in loss of life people wouldn't give a shit? Hmm... I think you are a little out of touch with reality.
Clearly you have an anti-establishment agenda that is obscuring your ability to look at this impartially. Personally, I don't approve of the money spent on the G8/G20 summit and I highly question it's merits. I don't however feel the need to go and act out like a fucking 13 year old boy and trash shit. Senseless destruction of public property, destroying and setting on fire police cars with the officers still in them. These are the actions of terrorists and I don't give a god damn what their cause is, when you act like this you lose all credibility for yourself and your cause.
So you're telling me that if the police didn't take action, the government didn't put a lot of measures in place for safety and there was a terrorist act resulting in loss of life people wouldn't give a shit?
I think you are a little out of touch with reality.
I promise you I am insane.
there is a line and whatever side you are on the other side is terrorists....the debate about which side of the line is the terrorist goes on and on......but its the line that's the real problem. we are all humans, we are all afraid....there are no lines...sympathies for violent people because they don't 'know'
I don't however feel the need to go and act out like a fucking 13 year old boy and trash shit. Senseless destruction of public property, destroying and setting on fire police cars with the officers still in them.
I take offense to this comment as a member of the former 13 year old boy category.
What's rediculous is that no one is arguing that the vandals/rioters shouldn't have been arrested.....we all seem to be in a agreement. Vandals rioters and criminals are not mutually exclusive of police who overstepped the laws of the land. BOTH occured.
What about those who were arrested/held/realeased without charge, even those on the way to the protests? i don't have a problem with security, I do have a problem with a police state. The police screwed themselves day one by NOT stopping the carnage as soon as it began. They typically got tired of the BS by day 2 (as any human being would) and overstepped their bounds. It's a pretty simple concept, you've committed a crime.....there's evidence against you.....you get arrested,charged, face your accuser and are aquitted/found guilty. Hundreds of people were held without bail/charge/access to phones/lawyers etc.
If you'd like to argue that that's their fault for being in the wrong place a the wrong time....I'll ask you when they passed the wrong place wrong time law*. The police did not separate the Rioters from the protesters. That is there job. That's what the billion was paid for. If all we wanted was a brute squad we could hire a bunch of morons and just point and say "crack skulls" and it would cost a hell of a lot less. I'm sure you could grab every hockey player from Owen sound and say "Hey this weekend you can come to TO and beat the shit out of a bunch of long haired social reformers, and not get charged" and you'd have enough security for 10 G20's...
In this country (like it or not) we have the right of assembly/protest/association. None of these things are grounds for arrest/detention.
*or you could move to a country that supports such laws...like China/North Korea/Russia.
Agreed. But your comment about separating rioters from protestors deserves comment.
The way you do that, in a dynamic situation, is detain all of them, and then release those undeserving of charge later. That is, for the most part, what was done.
As Chief Blair said, anyone who wants to, may file a complaint with the CIVILIAN review agency that oversees the police force.
Anyone protestor who does not do so, is just whining, imo.
Agreed. But your comment about separating rioters from protestors deserves comment.
The way you do that, in a dynamic situation, is detain all of them, and then release those undeserving of charge later. That is, for the most part, what was done.
As Chief Blair said, anyone who wants to, may file a complaint with the CIVILIAN review agency that oversees the police force.
Anyone protestor who does not do so, is just whining, imo.
First of all NO you don't detain everyone. Exactly what part of freedom of association and , freedom of assembly, freedom of expression don't you get? In Canada as long as I don't do anything illegal it is illegal to detain me. Could you imagine if the police held everyone in a bank after a theft for 24 hours suspect or not? This is exaclty the same thing except this time the police witnessed the crime and still arrested everyone.
As for the quality of their methods.....They "detained" people one at a time. They could have easily stamped people as suspects or otherwise and let obvious non participants (like the CTV cameraman with full credentials hanging from his neck and a 25 pound camera on his shoulder). You don't hold people for 24 hours without access to a phone/lawyer and let them go. Charge me or release me. Take all my info and let me go. IF you have grounds to charge me you can do so at any time.
Again people on the way to the protests were "detained" without cause. A lady on a Go-train was arrested and held 24 hours.....on her way TO the protest. How about the couple that was awoken at gunpoint by a swat team in their bedroom with a couple of children in the house while the RCMP searched the wrong house looking for suspects? Do they fall under the detain rule? BTW the CIVILIAN review board has zero authority to reprimand/suspend/charge anyone found responsible for anything wrong. They get to write nice little recommendations and that's it. (that's why police in TO get to run the Police Union after they've been suspended as police for illegal use of their powers)
The way you do that, in a dynamic situation, is detain all of them, and then release those undeserving of charge later. That is, for the most part, what was done.
this IS what they did, we are not allowed to peacefully protest so long as the government doesn't want us too.....they will search and detain unlawfully.....this is why people are rioting, because things are bad......and we are trapped into having to accept it....
this IS what they did, we are not allowed to peacefully protest so long as the government doesn't want us too.....they will search and detain unlawfully.....this is why people are rioting, because things are bad......and we are trapped into having to accept it....
People are not rioting because things are bad....they're rioting because they're criminal opportunists.
Comments
Canada foreign interference by US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) <<<< not sure if this justifies my point or is credible but maybe....
just a quick example but just having them around makes me unconfortable whether they work with rcmp in canada or not.
and 9/11? no i think its less complex than that.....the simplicity of it is....we were givin a world as humans and we created 'government' because we couldn't refrain from destroying each other. Governments will never stop that pattern we have to actually stop. Rioting isn't the way but neither is government.
it will be sent to and alternative measures program at least in bc....generally even for growing to a certain scale. its illegal to carry an icecream cone in your pants in Alabama they say. I'm sure you not getting arrested for it though. maybe its different cause im in bc
not saying they are correct but some of theses protesters believe this is a an urgent world crisis, one that many people are losing their lives to on a daily basis, hundreds, thousands....through violence, poverty, famine, war. Some people messages is we have to listen now......the message may be wrong but its clear the message is being oppressed
You are so ridiculously correct.. EXCEPT that these people are so deluded that they don't even realize that's what they're doing. They honestly believe in their heart-of-hears that smashing a starbucks window is the catalyst for change.
My 2c on all the protesters of the G20... If you want to change the world, do it via everyday commitments at the local level. That's the real way you change the world. Hard thankless work for the benefit of the downtrodden... Don't pat yourself on the back and believe the job is 'done' because you shouted at some police for a few hours between soy lattes and your parents curfew.
Wha . . .? Z, that was almost . . . well . . . a compliment. I think I need a moment here . . . *sniff* my Mom would be so proud . . .
As for the rest of your post . . . sing it bruthuh . . .
k obviously this is no good though....
Those are the sorts of people I would dearly love to see suffer some police brutality. Fucking tourists . . .
I quote John Lydon: "a cheap holiday in other people's misery . . ."
thailand?
Yeah, how silly of them to show displeasure for police brutality and blatant violation of rights.
And before you continue to fart out useless comments, do you even know what generation "hippies" are from?
Yup, easy to see where your bias lies . . .
- The temporary laws that the police passed were not secret at all. They distributed ONE MILLION leaflets and spent $72,000 in advertisements in the national newspapers explaining the temporary laws.
- what happened was supposed to be a protest but ended up being nothing more than a violent riot. No need to refer to protesters, they were rioters.
- the people organizing this demonstration knew full well that several anarchistic and violent organizations would be taking part. Hell I knew and I didn't do any investigative journalism. They made a point of letting the world at large know they would be there.
Any defense of any of this is absurd. If you have issues with the way things are, you don't go out and trash shit just to make people change and do things the way you want them too. I thinks it's fair to say that none of this actually happened because of several people's altruistic desire to help the world. They were motivated by selfish desires and violent urges.
wasn't there a law on this all along? I recall some law about having ID to prove your identify at all times... can't remember where.
ummmmm, do you even know what your talking about?
How many "hippies" were shown?
That was sort of what I was trying to get at. They have sufficient law on the books already. If the police have reason to detain you, they are able to require you to identify yourself, and to be able to PROVE that identity. Refusal to do so is a misdemeanour offense, but it means you go to jail, however temporarily.
many people who were asked to show id were peacefully protesting outside the boundaries set.....me thinks... if this is true this is a big issue.
fyp
anyways no i think theyd continue protesting the world leaders.
Admittedly, it would be a losse interpretation of the statutes, but nonetheless a case could be made . . .
Not that I would want to dignify those cretins with a title they would, no doubt, accept as a badge of honour. I much prefer the term "spoiled brats".
Woodstock, 1969, my final year of college... ahhh, those were the times...
Clearly you have an anti-establishment agenda that is obscuring your ability to look at this impartially. Personally, I don't approve of the money spent on the G8/G20 summit and I highly question it's merits. I don't however feel the need to go and act out like a fucking 13 year old boy and trash shit. Senseless destruction of public property, destroying and setting on fire police cars with the officers still in them. These are the actions of terrorists and I don't give a god damn what their cause is, when you act like this you lose all credibility for yourself and your cause.
some would give a shit some would blame the g20
I promise you I am insane.
there is a line and whatever side you are on the other side is terrorists....the debate about which side of the line is the terrorist goes on and on......but its the line that's the real problem. we are all humans, we are all afraid....there are no lines...sympathies for violent people because they don't 'know'
And there is a word for those sorts. The word is . . .
FUCKWAD.
I was right in my original assessment of your thought process, darb . . .
mindless drivel.
I take offense to this comment as a member of the former 13 year old boy category.
What about those who were arrested/held/realeased without charge, even those on the way to the protests? i don't have a problem with security, I do have a problem with a police state. The police screwed themselves day one by NOT stopping the carnage as soon as it began. They typically got tired of the BS by day 2 (as any human being would) and overstepped their bounds. It's a pretty simple concept, you've committed a crime.....there's evidence against you.....you get arrested,charged, face your accuser and are aquitted/found guilty. Hundreds of people were held without bail/charge/access to phones/lawyers etc.
If you'd like to argue that that's their fault for being in the wrong place a the wrong time....I'll ask you when they passed the wrong place wrong time law*. The police did not separate the Rioters from the protesters. That is there job. That's what the billion was paid for. If all we wanted was a brute squad we could hire a bunch of morons and just point and say "crack skulls" and it would cost a hell of a lot less. I'm sure you could grab every hockey player from Owen sound and say "Hey this weekend you can come to TO and beat the shit out of a bunch of long haired social reformers, and not get charged" and you'd have enough security for 10 G20's...
In this country (like it or not) we have the right of assembly/protest/association. None of these things are grounds for arrest/detention.
*or you could move to a country that supports such laws...like China/North Korea/Russia.
The way you do that, in a dynamic situation, is detain all of them, and then release those undeserving of charge later. That is, for the most part, what was done.
As Chief Blair said, anyone who wants to, may file a complaint with the CIVILIAN review agency that oversees the police force.
Anyone protestor who does not do so, is just whining, imo.
First of all NO you don't detain everyone. Exactly what part of freedom of association and , freedom of assembly, freedom of expression don't you get? In Canada as long as I don't do anything illegal it is illegal to detain me. Could you imagine if the police held everyone in a bank after a theft for 24 hours suspect or not? This is exaclty the same thing except this time the police witnessed the crime and still arrested everyone.
As for the quality of their methods.....They "detained" people one at a time. They could have easily stamped people as suspects or otherwise and let obvious non participants (like the CTV cameraman with full credentials hanging from his neck and a 25 pound camera on his shoulder). You don't hold people for 24 hours without access to a phone/lawyer and let them go. Charge me or release me. Take all my info and let me go. IF you have grounds to charge me you can do so at any time.
Again people on the way to the protests were "detained" without cause. A lady on a Go-train was arrested and held 24 hours.....on her way TO the protest. How about the couple that was awoken at gunpoint by a swat team in their bedroom with a couple of children in the house while the RCMP searched the wrong house looking for suspects? Do they fall under the detain rule? BTW the CIVILIAN review board has zero authority to reprimand/suspend/charge anyone found responsible for anything wrong. They get to write nice little recommendations and that's it. (that's why police in TO get to run the Police Union after they've been suspended as police for illegal use of their powers)
this IS what they did, we are not allowed to peacefully protest so long as the government doesn't want us too.....they will search and detain unlawfully.....this is why people are rioting, because things are bad......and we are trapped into having to accept it....
People are not rioting because things are bad....they're rioting because they're criminal opportunists.