Well I guess Red Hot Poker Tour (R.H.P.T.), who operates across the country and the rest of the leagues out there are in big trouble and the people I talked to, such as the O.P.P. officer who heads up the investigations of illegal gambling, who told me I can blatantly break the law then if I see fit, if what you're saying is true. Tell me why would the A.G.C.O. refer me to the O.P.P. investigator, then he tell me that as long as there is no MONEY being gambled then there is nothing illegal happening. I mentioned to the O.P.P. officer that I played for R.H.P.T. and he told me they were investigated by him personally and there was nothing illegal happening, such will be the case for my league my good man. Have a nice day.
How old are you CAPT. Sounds like they would have to charge you under the JOA if it came to charges. You’re like a kid who just discovered that round things roll and think that you have invented the wheel.
Good luck, perhaps you are the chosen one that the poker world has waited for and I will be on the side lines cheering you all the way.
No not a child, just a business entrepreneur who seems to be taking flack from a person or two here for no reason but to make themselves feel high an mighty. I am going to start the league regardless, so there is no need for people to carry on with their insights into something they don't have the courage to try themselves. Thanks and play tight. Oh and it's the Y.O.A. Young Offenders Act.
A few of my clients have talked with the AGCO people directly and it's quite simple actually - to summarize, here are some examples:
1. Your $20 game in a bar - illegal (can't mix alcohol sales and "betting")
2. A free game in a bar - legal (alcohol yes, but no "betting")
3. A non raked home game - legal (betting, but no alcohol for sale, and no rake)
4. A raked home game - illegal (betting with someone getting a cut)
5. A non raked home game with the dealer getting tips - illegal (someone is profiting from the wagering)
So, any time some realizes any sort of profit - directly or indirectly from any wagering - illegal.
And any time there is wagering AND alcohol for sale - illegal.
Free to play bar tours remove the wagering - therefore they can be played in a venue that serves alcohol.
Once you understand the combinations (wagering, rake and alcohol) it's really quite simple to determine the legality.
There is an OPP brief that is available online somewhere - it's states that they are going after organized crime circles that run larger raked poker games to generate cash for the drug trade - that is their emphasis and focus - and so it should be - a small game in a bar is hardly worth the effort to bust - even if it is illegal. Remember speeding is illegal and almost everyone does it and very few (relatively speaking) get caught.
That said, our "bar tour" runs a tight ship in this regard - you cannot create a business and expect to sell territories or franchises and have the business be illegal ... duh.
And yes the bar tours have come and gone - they were hot and have died out - and like any industry they are now experiencing normal slow and steady growth with quality business plans and normal growth potential - instead of the get on the train mentality and jump off before they crash that happens when something is new.
The UK and the US have good tours going all over - Canada does as well relative to our size - the industry is simply part of a greater entertainment industry - it's not part of the gaming industry - it's entertainment - and if you don't get that you are missing it.
Many tours have been killed by people playing for a few bucks on the side - hopefully we will be able to do that in the future - the UK has a new law that states that you can indeed play for a few pounds in a bar - hopefully our government will follow this lead and thus help our bar tour businesses grow as a result - not from the profit of the rake as there cannot be any, but simply from the number of people who are willing to play for $10 as well as be entertained for the evening.
Good luck at the tables everyone - and keep it legal!
Over/Under on how long CAPT's league lasts, or even gets going?
Look CAPT, we ALLLLLL want poker legalized. We wouldn't be spending our time on here if we didn't.. However merely wishing something to be legal won't make it so... You should be fine as long as you stick to the Red Hot model, however so many others started that way but somehow money always manages to be worked in, then bingo, someone complains and the organizers get the call... If it's small then usually a warning is all that happens. However as soon as there is any significant money changing hands, under the table, or otherwise, attention will be brought.
This is not new, those of us who have been here for a while have seen it a number of times...
LMAO what a wonderful little world. I mean WOW! Is that it? I am just shaking my head here thinking what is wrong with the people here, is it jealousy? I can't understand where all this pessimism and negative energy is coming from. I believe that you negative ones here are the ones who tried but failed to start a "Bar League" and would like nothing more than to see everyone else who dares to fail as well. If I'm wrong then you have other issues that need tending to. Please, do the rest of us a favor and keep the negativity bottled up inside your head, I for one would appreciate it.
Thanks and play tight.
I give up...... Don't play tight, play smart! Oh, and it's not negativity, just reality.. A fact of life in our straight laced Ontario... I would love to see it changed where we could legally play for small amounts, say an entertainment cost, but doesn't look likely. Perhaps your legal friends could help?
You should be fine as long as you stick to the Red Hot model, however so many others started that way but somehow money always manages to be worked in, then bingo, someone complains and the organizers get the call...
Yep you're right, that's what will happen, I will be turning a blind eye and let the idiots of the world destroy my business, along with having the venues' Liquor license pulled, by letting them gamble with there little bits of change in their pockets. Yep guna just turn a blind eye. How stupid and irresponsible would that make me as a business man? Come on people look outside the box there is a nice place to go to. LOL keep it coming my wife and I are having a good laugh this morning.
Yep you're right, that's what will happen, I will be turning a blind eye and let the idiots of the world destroy my business, along with having the venues' Liquor license pulled, by letting them gamble with there little bits of change in their pockets. Yep guna just turn a blind eye. How stupid and irresponsible would that make me as a business man? Come on people look outside the box there is a nice place to go to. LOL keep it coming my wife and I are having a good laugh this morning.
You sir, are funny. Shouldn't take things so personal...lol..As Compuease said...it can be done. Follow the model...I direct for a "bar league" as well. Your laws are different than ours, or Albertas, but, again...it can be done...just difficult to keep money out of the picture after awhile...it is the nature of card players... Wishing you luck!
The WPT is holding an amateur league presently in bars and clubs (not just casino's) all over Ontario, first prize is a $10,000 seat in a major tournament. Doubt very much the WPT would be doing that if it was illegal.
edit:In fact there's one this afternoon in Bar not five blocks from where I live but I signed up for the big Guinness World Record games already. Looks like PS has another new record, FullTilt has their's capped at fifty thousand entries, gonna be a total donkfest.
Ya, when I was first entertaining the idea of a league I googled and found the WPTAPL and inquired as to what it would cost me for a franchise. They wanted, get this, 15K for the northern area where I wanted to start out, then I would have to buy all the ad's myself and poker supplies from them, 3K more plus $40.00 per venue that I ran. So nearly 20K ++++++. I decided, as you can see, to go a different route, thought about Red Hot too, but that thought passed as quick as it came. LOL..
Hey bro when and if you ever go to the WPTAPL event could you post your thoughts of it here and how it is that you get to the 10K event. I have been hearing different scenarios as to the small amount of players that actually get into the final, the overly long seasons etc.......Thanks
A 007 type of deal. LOL
The WPT is holding an amateur league presently in bars and clubs (not just casino's) all over Ontario, first prize is a $10,000 seat in a major tournament. Doubt very much the WPT would be doing that if it was illegal.
edit:In fact there's one this afternoon in Bar not five blocks from where I live but I signed up for the big Guinness World Record games already. Looks like PS has another new record, FullTilt has their's capped at fifty thousand entries, gonna be a total donkfest.
Ya, when I was first entertaining the idea of a league I googled and found the WPTAPL and inquired as to what it would cost me for a franchise. They wanted, get this, 15K for the northern area where I wanted to start out, then I would have to buy all the ad's myself and poker supplies from them, 3K more plus $40.00 per venue that I ran. So nearly 20K ++++++. I decided, as you can see, to go a different route, thought about Red Hot too, but that thought passed as quick as it came. LOL..
I incorporated this company, they are a client and I have also reviewed their franchise agreement with the lawyer responsible.
While some may see the initial costs of establishing the business as steep, what they are failing to realize is the instant legitimacy of the tour given its affiliation with the WPT and the name recognition provided by the WPT.
And if you believe that the WPT would license out their trademarks and intellectual property cheaply, you would be mistaken. So if you want to see why the costs may be (in your opinion) high, there are reasons for it.
Right now in the Halton region there are 4-5 tours that I can think of off the top of my head that run pretty much everyday. So there is demand. Red Hot has survived the the longest and has the most establishments. Aces & Eights runs a couple days, Bullets Poker Tour runs like 3 days and Elite Poker runs like 4-5 days a week with a good crowd. Then there is Red Hot and I believe the WPTAPL will be running here shortly.
I incorporated this company, they are a client and I have also reviewed their franchise agreement with the lawyer responsible.
While some may see the initial costs of establishing the business as steep, what they are failing to realize is the instant legitimacy of the tour given its affiliation with the WPT and the name recognition provided by the WPT.
And if you believe that the WPT would license out their trademarks and intellectual property cheaply, you would be mistaken. So if you want to see why the costs may be (in your opinion) high, there are reasons for it.
Right now in the Halton region there are 4-5 tours that I can think of off the top of my head that run pretty much everyday. So there is demand. Red Hot has survived the the longest and has the most establishments. Aces & Eights runs a couple days, Bullets Poker Tour runs like 3 days and Elite Poker runs like 4-5 days a week with a good crowd. Then there is Red Hot and I believe the WPTAPL will be running here shortly.
Thanks for the info HammerDad. I wasn't able to shell out that type of cash so I decided to go it alone and see what I can accomplish. I'm nearly ready, I incorporated my company as of today and have two venues on board. So now it's wait and see if the other potential venues like the package I gave them to review. I'm really pumped and can't wait to start.
I incorporated this company, they are a client and I have also reviewed their franchise agreement with the lawyer responsible.
While some may see the initial costs of establishing the business as steep, what they are failing to realize is the instant legitimacy of the tour given its affiliation with the WPT and the name recognition provided by the WPT.
And if you believe that the WPT would license out their trademarks and intellectual property cheaply, you would be mistaken. So if you want to see why the costs may be (in your opinion) high, there are reasons for it.
Right now in the Halton region there are 4-5 tours that I can think of off the top of my head that run pretty much everyday. So there is demand. Red Hot has survived the the longest and has the most establishments. Aces & Eights runs a couple days, Bullets Poker Tour runs like 3 days and Elite Poker runs like 4-5 days a week with a good crowd. Then there is Red Hot and I believe the WPTAPL will be running here shortly.
Best of luck in your endeavour.
So, other than the 'wpt' name and the so called 'legitimacy', what do they actually do for the league besides cost a whole lot of money for the organizer?
Well I'll tell you one thing they didn't impress me and you know being Canadian I felt that we here in Canada can do just fine with our own version of an amateur league. I'll be sending players to the B.C. Championships rather than Vegas the only exception to my rule will be the W.S.O.P.'s Academy where I'll send players too. They are the official poker brand people trust and will be for a long time to come. Learning from the array of pro's they have will be fantastic.
Well I'll tell you one thing they didn't impress me and you know being Canadian I felt that we here in Canada can do just fine with our own version of an amateur league. I'll be sending players to the B.C. Championships rather than Vegas the only exception to my rule will be the W.S.O.P.'s Academy where I'll send players too. They are the official poker brand people trust and will be for a long time to come. Learning from the array of pro's they have will be fantastic.
I hope you're nicer to Jeff and Brandon than you are on here. You don't seem to be winning too many friends for someone who's trying to start a new business....
Who are Jeff and Brandon? I didn't start with anyone here. I'm sorry was I rude to defend myself and my business from unwarranted criticism? Well if my convictions are too strong for some then they don't have to talk to me. I'm really a nice person or I see myself as nice as does my family and friends. Wish you all the best.
Ok I know who Brandon is now I talked with him before through e-mails about the Academy. I'm sure he'll have a nice experience talking to me. lol Like I said I was just up in arms getting it from all angles and you were YELLING... LOL
I hope you're nicer to Jeff and Brandon than you are on here. You don't seem to be winning too many friends for someone who's trying to start a new business....
I will be looking to hire one or 2 Floor Managers for my league when I start Sept 25th. If anyone from Barrie is interested and has their own car just check out my website under the contacts page, it's still in the building process right now but will be up and running shortly.
Had a great eight handed tourney with a bunch of Newfie's last wknd, what a great time, nice that I won it too. Lol They are all anxious to play in my league when it starts. It's heating up Baby!
Have obtained another venue, that's three now. Going to make a run at this poker thing looks like. lol Sept 25th is day one with no end in sight. Had a look at my new ad's that will be throughout each venue and I'm very impressed. I'm confident there will be a swell of support for my league as it commences. "Pumped" is the word that best describes how I feel. I'm PUMPED baby!
The WPT is holding an amateur league presently in bars and clubs (not just casino's) all over Ontario, first prize is a $10,000 seat in a major tournament. Doubt very much the WPT would be doing that if it was illegal.
edit:In fact there's one this afternoon in Bar not five blocks from where I live but I signed up for the big Guinness World Record games already. Looks like PS has another new record, FullTilt has their's capped at fifty thousand entries, gonna be a total donkfest.
Seems I was right, they have four feeder tournaments in a year, then there's only one big tournament per year and it's to the celebrity invitational not a 10k event, it's a 200k freeroll. They actually do give away a seat to the 10k Sports Legends event but no one plays to win it, it's a draw, for lack of a better phrase, out of a hat. It also seems that the winner will have to find his/her own way there and a place to stay. Wow, sucks to be that winner. lol and good luck at being that winner, odds are stacked against........
Comments
Good luck, perhaps you are the chosen one that the poker world has waited for and I will be on the side lines cheering you all the way.
Look CAPT, we ALLLLLL want poker legalized. We wouldn't be spending our time on here if we didn't.. However merely wishing something to be legal won't make it so... You should be fine as long as you stick to the Red Hot model, however so many others started that way but somehow money always manages to be worked in, then bingo, someone complains and the organizers get the call... If it's small then usually a warning is all that happens. However as soon as there is any significant money changing hands, under the table, or otherwise, attention will be brought.
This is not new, those of us who have been here for a while have seen it a number of times...
Thanks and play tight.
This.
You sir, are funny. Shouldn't take things so personal...lol..As Compuease said...it can be done. Follow the model...I direct for a "bar league" as well. Your laws are different than ours, or Albertas, but, again...it can be done...just difficult to keep money out of the picture after awhile...it is the nature of card players... Wishing you luck!
edit:In fact there's one this afternoon in Bar not five blocks from where I live but I signed up for the big Guinness World Record games already. Looks like PS has another new record, FullTilt has their's capped at fifty thousand entries, gonna be a total donkfest.
A 007 type of deal. LOL
I incorporated this company, they are a client and I have also reviewed their franchise agreement with the lawyer responsible.
While some may see the initial costs of establishing the business as steep, what they are failing to realize is the instant legitimacy of the tour given its affiliation with the WPT and the name recognition provided by the WPT.
And if you believe that the WPT would license out their trademarks and intellectual property cheaply, you would be mistaken. So if you want to see why the costs may be (in your opinion) high, there are reasons for it.
Right now in the Halton region there are 4-5 tours that I can think of off the top of my head that run pretty much everyday. So there is demand. Red Hot has survived the the longest and has the most establishments. Aces & Eights runs a couple days, Bullets Poker Tour runs like 3 days and Elite Poker runs like 4-5 days a week with a good crowd. Then there is Red Hot and I believe the WPTAPL will be running here shortly.
Best of luck in your endeavour.
Too bad that Chris Tufford is an ass.....
So, other than the 'wpt' name and the so called 'legitimacy', what do they actually do for the league besides cost a whole lot of money for the organizer?
I hope you're nicer to Jeff and Brandon than you are on here. You don't seem to be winning too many friends for someone who's trying to start a new business....
Seems I was right, they have four feeder tournaments in a year, then there's only one big tournament per year and it's to the celebrity invitational not a 10k event, it's a 200k freeroll. They actually do give away a seat to the 10k Sports Legends event but no one plays to win it, it's a draw, for lack of a better phrase, out of a hat. It also seems that the winner will have to find his/her own way there and a place to stay. Wow, sucks to be that winner. lol and good luck at being that winner, odds are stacked against........
Cool Mule Poker Tour
Yes, I checked them out. I didn't have the pleasure of playing there but I looked over the website. Now they'll have competition this Sept.
Let me know if there's space for one more golfer/poker player Sat. I will play for sure.