New Bar League in Barrie

CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
in General Poker Chat
Hi,
I just registered for PF.ca and am very pleased to read all the great threads here. I am just about to kick off my new bar league in Barrie, On. Canadian Amateur Poker Tour for the reasons I have been reading about on this thread. The CPT is not easy to access here especially for those who work day jobs Mon-Fri and with this economy you can't afford to miss any time or you'll find yourself jobless. I would love to bring in a whole new fold of players across our country to play at the biggest tournaments our country has to offer. I have a vision I hope will take Canadian players to places that they can only dream about. Just check my website from time to time and see what's going on as I take a chance and try to grow. My website is being built as I speak what you'll see is my logo on a holding page.

Canadian Amateur Poker Tour
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Comments

  • compueasecompuease Admin
    CanAmPokerTour.Ca wrote: »
    Hi,
    I just registered for PF.ca and am very pleased to read all the great threads here. I am just about to kick off my new bar league in Barrie, On. Canadian Amateur Poker Tour for the reasons I have been reading about on this thread. The CPT is not easy to access here especially for those who work day jobs Mon-Fri and with this economy you can't afford to miss any time or you'll find yourself jobless. I would love to bring in a whole new fold of players across our country to play at the biggest tournaments our country has to offer. I have a vision I hope will take Canadian players to places that they can only dream about. Just check my website from time to time and see what's going on as I take a chance and try to grow. My website is being built as I speak what you'll see is my logo on a holding page.

    Canadian Amateur Poker Tour

    I'm sure our own Philliivey will check this out..... lol...
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    If not him then maybe you hey???? LOL!
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    CanAmPokerTour.Ca wrote: »
    If not him then maybe you hey???? LOL!

    No thanks, the bar tours kinda wore off a while ago..... and phillii lives in Barrie..
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    Just wait until I have a few seasons under my belt and then when you see what is being won by my members you may have a different out look. All I ask is to watch my website from time to time then be the judge of whether it's old or raising the standards of "BEER LEAGUES"
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    CanAmPokerTour.Ca wrote: »
    Just wait until I have a few seasons under my belt and then when you see what is being won by my members you may have a different out look. All I ask is to watch my website from time to time then be the judge of whether it's old or raising the standards of "BEER LEAGUES"
    Given the legal situation in Ontario you will be severely capped in what you can offer..... :) But good luck.... And perhaps you should start a thread of your own. We should take this discussion out of this CPT thread... In fact why don't you create one and I'll move these posts over?
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    I'm new and not sure how to make a new thread?????
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    CanAmPokerTour.Ca wrote: »
    I'm new and not sure how to make a new thread?????

    Just go to the section you want to post in and click on "New thread" near upper left.. Once you create it, I'll move these posts over...
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    Ok figured it out...lol

    I would like to know what the legal situation is that you mentioned and where I can get the info about it?
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    Ok compuease I made a thread. Thanks.

    Are you still there compuease? if you are can you answer my question about the legalities I may face?
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    CanAmPokerTour.Ca wrote: »
    Ok figured it out...lol

    I would like to know what the legal situation is that you mentioned and where I can get the info about it?

    Well this has been discussed so many times before, both backwards and forwards so I'm not going to do all the legwork for you, google is your friend...
    The essence is, if you, the bar hosting it or anyone else is making money off it, the legal line has been crossed. If it's small enough you likely would get a warning first but if you want to grow it to any decent size you will attract attention... And not the kind you want.. Invest in some legal advice...

    Edit: Just found another thread on here discussing this before. I know there are others but this one came to mind... Read it for what it's worth and GET a real legal opinion... Mine is not one...

    http://www.pokerforum.ca/f6/legal-poker-rules-ontario-17752/
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    LOL.. Bro it will be free to play for all members, all the time. There will never be a red penny from any member paid to me or the bar. All a person is required to do is be of legal drinking age and thats it. Just check out my site once a month out of pure curiosity and we'll talk again.
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    CanAmPokerTour.Ca wrote: »
    LOL.. Bro it will be free to play for all members, all the time. There will never be a red penny from any member paid to me or the bar. All a person is required to do is be of legal drinking age and thats it. Just check out my site once a month out of pure curiosity and we'll talk again.
    But the bar makes money off food and drink, and in turn pays you a fee for running it and providing the players correct? Question, will players get extra chips for buying food or drink perhaps? Or can a person walk in off the street, buy no food or drink, play and win whatever the prize is? Remember it's not me nor any of the members of this site that you need to convince..... :)
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    Have you heard of RedHotPokerTour.com?? I am a member and was a regional champion there for Windsor and yes you get extra chips for purchases, the franchise owner is paid by the bar just like any other league except it's a fixed rate and we, the members, never put out any money at any time to participate. That is where the law begins and ends, with the member and if they pay to play or not. Yes, anyone can walk in off the street, not buy a thing and win the prize and points that go along with it, but if I owned the bar and I had people sitting for 3 or 4 hours not spending $ and just taking up space the poker would end as fast as it began. Question, when and if you have ever been in say a dart league at a local bar did you just play darts then leave or did you buy a pint or two with some wings or whatever caught your fancy while playing with everyone there?
  • compueasecompuease Admin
    CanAmPokerTour.Ca wrote: »
    Have you heard of RedHotPokerTour.com??
    lol, may have heard of them,,,,, I still have my card (may be a collectors item now) circa 2004 I think it was.... I'm just saying to consider the legalities and implications, not trying to tell you what's legal or not... This is not anything new....
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    And I appreciate it. Trust me when you have a look later you may come and check it out and it will be well worth your time, I promise.
    Thanks again comp.. talk to ya again I hope.
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    Alrighty then Comp... Thanks again for the chit chat I really enjoyed it hope to talk again. Just do me a favour and have a look at my site in a couple of months and let me know what you think, I would appreciate the feed back.
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    Happy Canada Day everybody!
  • philliiveyphilliivey
    ahhhh big c is thinking of me,lol


    would this be a franchise of the wpt amatuer tour?
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    No, I am opening my own league called Canadian Amateur Poker Tour.
  • jontmjontm
    I am a tourney director for the Big Slick Poker Tour here in Calgary, and I will say it does take some time to build, even with 1 million people outside my front door.

    And there are definatelly alot of legal considerations with AGLC. Lucky for me I have those that have been ground level since RedHot to keep me out of trouble.

    I love that you are trying this, even if you are now the competition, ;).

    I just hope you have an in and didn't just copy the business model from the outside looking in. That "wrong kinda attention" can make Vegas a hard place to visit.

    Good luck and hey, I am a fan of those trying to build the industry.

    PS, I started reading this thread somewhere else, thats how the comments fit. I will check out your page.
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    Right on thanks for the supportive words. I will say that I have been thinking this through for some time now and I have a model all my own, sure there may be a similarity here and there but that's just poker, it's really all the same with a different covering right. lol
  • FloydthedogFloydthedog
    There is already a "bar tour" out of Barrie - sent you a PM.
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    Well there will be another "Bar Tour" in Barrie soon and it's going to be HUGE, you may want to play in my league who knows???? lol. We'll just have to wait and see if I can squeeze my way into the area. I will post when my website is up and running so people will see when and where it will all take place.
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    I have secured my first venue in BARRIE and one in Richmond Hill. Yee Haw!!!!!!!!! Still waiting on the website building process, but had a look at the design and it's pretty good. I have also registered the .com version. Will post again soon.........
  • gruven72gruven72
    As someone who has spent a lot of time working in the poker industry in Ontario AND worldwide, I absolutely GUARANTEE that this is illegal. The only thing that prevents most bar leagues from being busted is that it's not worth the AGCO's time...
  • CanAmPokerTour.CaCanAmPokerTour.Ca
    Sorry my friend but you have been misinformed, the POKER IN BARS is very much legal when you are not paying to play (Which means that there is no GAMBLING involved when there is no CASH MONEY being used.) I have talked to the proper authority on this very matter. You should be better informed before you speak.......... Always negativity, nay sayers, it's getting to be a bit much. LOL Just kidding I like the feed back.
  • canaDahcanaDah
    they have a live cash game at a bar in my area every week, have for twenty years, no one ever bothers them but then they dont get allot of attention either.
  • FloydthedogFloydthedog
    A few of my clients have talked with the AGCO people directly and it's quite simple actually - to summarize, here are some examples:

    1. Your $20 game in a bar - illegal (can't mix alcohol sales and "betting")
    2. A free game in a bar - legal (alcohol yes, but no "betting")
    3. A non raked home game - legal (betting, but no alcohol for sale, and no rake)
    4. A raked home game - illegal (betting with someone getting a cut)
    5. A non raked home game with the dealer getting tips - illegal (someone is profiting from the wagering)

    So, any time some realizes any sort of profit - directly or indirectly from any wagering - illegal.

    And any time there is wagering AND alcohol for sale - illegal.

    Free to play bar tours remove the wagering - therefore they can be played in a venue that serves alcohol.

    Once you understand the combinations (wagering, rake and alcohol) it's really quite simple to determine the legality.

    There is an OPP brief that is available online somewhere - it's states that they are going after organized crime circles that run larger raked poker games to generate cash for the drug trade - that is their emphasis and focus - and so it should be - a small game in a bar is hardly worth the effort to bust - even if it is illegal. Remember speeding is illegal and almost everyone does it and very few (relatively speaking) get caught.

    That said, our "bar tour" runs a tight ship in this regard - you cannot create a business and expect to sell territories or franchises and have the business be illegal ... duh.

    And yes the bar tours have come and gone - they were hot and have died out - and like any industry they are now experiencing normal slow and steady growth with quality business plans and normal growth potential - instead of the get on the train mentality and jump off before they crash that happens when something is new.

    The UK and the US have good tours going all over - Canada does as well relative to our size - the industry is simply part of a greater entertainment industry - it's not part of the gaming industry - it's entertainment - and if you don't get that you are missing it.

    Many tours have been killed by people playing for a few bucks on the side - hopefully we will be able to do that in the future - the UK has a new law that states that you can indeed play for a few pounds in a bar - hopefully our government will follow this lead and thus help our bar tour businesses grow as a result - not from the profit of the rake as there cannot be any, but simply from the number of people who are willing to play for $10 as well as be entertained for the evening.

    Good luck at the tables everyone - and keep it legal!
  • HammerDadHammerDad
    I've played Red Hot for a couple years now, and every so often they have to stop using the pink/white chips for purchases as the Attorney General or the LBCO start snooping around and they have to stop doing it.

    They are actually in one of those scenarios now.

    There is another tour down by Burlington that you have to buy a $10 gift certificate to the bar in order to play and I don't know how they managed that one given how completely illegal it is. I guess no one had complained, although I haven't played that tour in a year or so either.
  • gruven72gruven72
    CanAmPokerTour.Ca wrote: »
    Sorry my friend but you have been misinformed, the POKER IN BARS is very much legal when you are not paying to play (Which means that there is no GAMBLING involved when there is no CASH MONEY being used.) I have talked to the proper authority on this very matter. You should be better informed before you speak.......... Always negativity, nay sayers, it's getting to be a bit much. LOL Just kidding I like the feed back.

    Then I have been misinformed by the AGCO, with whom I meet regularly, and Michael Lipton, the leading gambling attorney in the country. If anyone is making a profit from a poker tournament, then it is regarded as a 'proceed of gaming' and therefore illegal. If you're running your bar league without making any money from it? Giddy up. But if you take so much as one dime, directly or indirectly, it is illegal.
    Luckily, as other posters have mentioned, you're not worth their time to chase down. Unless someone files a complaint, and then they're obligated to investigate...
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