Bottom set...
Fallsview 7 AM. The table is a mixture of tourists and regulars. I've never seen the guys in this hand before tonight. They came from a broken table. I've been playing small ball tight aggressive and slowly building my stack. 2/5 I have 900 I'm in the BB with red 77, 2 limpers tight button makes it 30, I call in the BB, 2 limpers call Flop is KJ7r Pot is 122 I bet half pot (60), 2 folds, button makes it 160 with 274 behind .... I more than cover him. The villain has been on the table for about 2 orbits. He's played and won one hand. He hasn't shown down any hands.
Comments
tight opponent that is on the button,
who had a fairly narrow range of hands,
with you pocket sevens, went set mining,
and hit your set on a rainbow flop.
You are committed to this hand.
You should not be calling raises with small/mid
pockets if you arent prepared to follow through
when you hit your set on a fairly safe board.
Set over set is a distinct possibility here,
but you cant be worried about the boogy man.
If he has AA, QQ, or even AK, he's thinking
thats a pretty good flop for him.
Checking this flop to the PF raiser was an option... but I don't think that line gets you any additional info here... and probably nets you less money when you're ahead. Push and Pray...
Not sure that pushing is the best option here.
(obv we're going broke with this hand)
It looks like he's trying to push you out of the pot right now early. You re-raise and he folds.
I would push for sure. Make him make a decision for all of his money. I say at best he has top pair and you will surprise him with your set. You said he hasn't shown any cards, so he's taking down a lot of pots by pushing people out when he's on draws or hits small. In that case, you might even want to slow play, if you sense total weakness. Either way, I would push to avoid the straight hitting and busting your hand.
If he does have a set, most of the time you will surprise the other player here with your set and take down a huge pot. That's the beauty of a set.
Either way, I think he's on a straight draw or has K J.
I really hate the general consensus here...which seems to be shove.
A lot of 'he doesn't have a set...get it in there' I just can't imagine what they're putting the opponent on that CALLS?
Lets say he's raising a legitimate hand.
Hands that are beating you obv: KK, JJ
Hands you're beating that will probably call: AA, AK, KJ
Now here's the part I'm interested in:
Hands you're beating that will fold to a shove often: KQ, K10, K9, QQ, AJ and ALL BLUFFS
let's remember how you're perceived Derrick, you have this super-tight image, and you've just probed the pot against a pf aggressor WHO WAS ON THE BUTTON. Who has come back over the top a perfect $100. If he's not set-over-set he's seeing if he can push you around.
Once in a while you are beat, but it is rare...and what is more certain is that many of the hands that you're good against here are shoving a second smallish probe bet on the turn, but folding to your shove on the flop.
I agree that we want all our chips in but on that board, I feel your biggest worry is giving lesser hands the best chance to get their chips in with you.
People who are worried about straight draws completing are losing their damn minds.
so call and push on the turn; you ain't folding honey bunch. That would be completely in SANE.
pay attention
You're never going to push JJ or KK off the hand ... Folding out the KX's AA, QQ and bluffs is a disaster.
I like flat call and bet small on the turn. Pushing on the turn makes no sense for the reasons above.
Kristy's line of flat calling and calling the turn shove is fine too if you think he will shove the turn.
It's a tough decision. You will likely get him to fold if he is on a draw, but you're right, he won't fold if he has JJ or KK.
Are you going to fold if he goes all-in, or are you going to call?
If you can't put the hand down, you are risking the chance that he hits something bigger than you on the turn or the river.
Why not push and try to get him off the hand early?
If you go all-in now, chances are you win, and there is a good chance you are going to push him off of his hand.
If you just call and a K hits, what do you do? Fold? Call his all in? You're in a stickier situation.
I still like shoving. I feel you have more chances to take the pot down now than you do seeing a turn and river card. Most of the time if he is on a draw or has top pair, you will win even if he calls your all in. Why not try to take the pot down now while you are pretty much almost always ahead of him. You still have a chance to take a decent sized pot right now.
Any thoughts?
In my opinion, this situation will almost always lead to an all-in for both players, so why not just push and hope your set holds up the way it will most of the time?
Also, pushing here will make him make a decision for all of his chips, and it won't make a huge dent in your chips. If you win, you will be up quite a bit more, and if you lose, you will have another bad beat notch on your belt.
I take that back. It wouldn't be a bad beat if he had pocket kings, haha. You would have another beat on your belt where you would win most of the time. Maybe not bad beat.
That's the Kristy we all know and love. Keep up the good work
but i won't push the flop
i'll flat call it, and check it to him, so he can hang himself.
if you push. AK may get away, AA may or may not call (if i don't think you go deep with TPTK, i'll assume you can beat that K, and if you can beat that pair of K, then my pair of A definely no good here) KJ may got away too ( depend on if he is TAG or TAGFISH).
pot size after you call, any bet from him will commit him.
if he check, then he won't call your push, so figure out an amount that he'll look you up with.
my 2 cents.
Seems like calling is generally agreed upon by a lot of people here.
I am going to have to re-think all of this, but what about trying to get him out of the pot before he does make a better hand?
By what you are saying, you are assuming he has a worse hand and you pretty much are never gonig to fold. You will let him hang himself, but you also risk him hitting a better hand than you on the turn or the river.
You have the possibility of a straight and two three of a kinds. You can obviously put him on each pocket card being T or above.
So, there are 22 cards that are going to scare the crap out of you.
If a 9, T, Q or A hit, you are going to be scared of a straight. If a K or a J hits, you are going to be scared of a full house or trips.
So, I guess the better question is, what would you do if one of these 22 cards hit?
I know it would be about 21 cards if you think about actual probability, cause he has to have at least one to make three of a kind better than yours, but you are looking at a lot of possible cards that will make you uneasy to call an all-in, but you probably will end up calling because your hand is very strong.
Anyway, these 22 scary cards are the reason why I say push.
Is this a wrong way of thinking, or is that some good thinking?
Stop seeing monster under the bed.
Def no need to shove here...call the raise plz.
it doesn't matter what comes on the turn, the button isn't going anywhere. Nobody is going to fold trips in this situation even if a K or J comes on the turn (worried about a bigger boat). The only issue is how to get the button's remaining chips in the middle.
this player is raising me with a straight draw? If he is tight (as mentioned), I don't see it. If a K or J comes, I'm not folding my boat.
Either way if you call the flop the turn the money is going in the middle anyways. The hand will play itself out due to the nature of the preflop betting and the co-ordination of the board on the flop. K rag rag or J rag rag plays differently.
Villian puts you on a King and figures he is going to grab you with his AA. Standard Fallsview. The problem with hand with villian is pot control and that is the biggest leak with fallsview 2-5 and 5-5 most players have no problem shooting their stack in with 1 pair.
I hear you, so what's with all this deep throat analysis? seems pretty ABC to me. You can second guess the villian all you want, you are 'trip' committed. DEAL WITH IT!
Trips does not equal to set.
I would never stack off against a tight player with just a trip.
but i'll always stack off against a tight player with a Set.
DONKS
lol
i love those who stack off light
specially online.
... with the Calling side trying to extract money from the villain when he holds something that he will normally fold to our push...
Can someone please tell me a hand that the villain could possibly be holding (a villain that has played 1 hand in 2 orbits) that he would...
a) raise pre-flop with.
b) raise on the flop after getting bet into, with a KJ7 rainbow board.
c) not be willing to call our re-push on the flop...
d) and would be willing to put more money into the pot on the turn without improving!
I think it's wishful thinking that you're going to extract more EV from this situation, than you'll give up, when you risk letting the villain see more cards for free.
I answered ALL of these, now you tell me which one of the 'calling on the flop' hands are folding on the turn?
reread my post and then have an adult explain it to you.
meh, actually I'm bored of this now, Reef, msn me when you see my last.
So you think villain raised with KT or K9... raised again on the flop... and still thinks he's ahead... good luck!
which one is more likely to happen?
Also which one is likely to get a bluff or a weird second pair move?
Actually, I think this is a key aspect of the hand that everyone seems to be overlooking. You come out with a decent raise after hitting trips on the flop which is well hidden. A lot of players would check in this situation. I actually would put less likelihood on the villian holding KK or JJ as a result.
If he had trips, would he be re-raising in this situation with a player raising into him?