Graham, you can always try what beanie does at his house. Get a swear jar
I like that one Johnnie, I remember at least one tournament there where the jar was overflowing... lol.. I think even snowflake contributed.
Is that why we rarely play there any more, we can't beat the "rake". Chime in anytime here Jenn (Kanga)...
I'm quitting the forum anyway, thought I'd prove to you all one last time that I am infact smarter than you, and you'd have been better off listening to my argument...which I don't believe has been overcome as of yet.
The following is a copy of a letter I sent to Waltsfriend Sandy,
Re: Is everything ok?
Actually I'm completely frustrated. I've spent so much time on this site, trying to make it great and fun, and I feel completely hung out to dry. I feel like I"m speaking french, explaining basic freedoms in such simple terms..and they just don't get it.
This is huge for me, if a swear filter gets added I"m leaving this forum for good. I've fought so hard for every joy and freedom in my life. Not many people know this, but it was this forum and chatting about/playing poker that helped bring real joy back into my life while in my abusive marriage. I walked around lifeless and souless for so long, it was the freedom and the mental stimulation that helped me remember that there was more to life than the isolation and cruelty I was being subjected to. As I had long since forgotten.
These whiners don't even care about the freedom that they are trampling on because they've never been forced to live without it. They don't know what it is like to be afraid to say what you want, to the point where it becomes normal to say or think nothing.
I will NOT stand by and have one of them taking it from me because some asshole needs to manipulate the forum into a pleasing esthetic.
But black is black and I won't call it white for you or anyone else. You are dead wrong on the issue at hand and if you can't accept that maybe it's better for both you and the forum if you move along.
Kristy as I mentioned in our MSN convo this has nothing to do with swearing or freedom of speech, but more to do with starting fights with other members. We don't want to see you go, but rather just take it easy on other people and not provoke fights all the time. Maybe after taking some time off you can come back, as there are many members here that will be sad to see you go.
Talk to you later!
Edit.. I have put your account as temp banned for 7 days to give you some time to cool off and think things over. Hope to see you back after that!
Well I echo what Graham says, Kristy. I do know that you will at least lurk, and if you do decide to come back we would all be the better for it. It would not be any admission of wrong doing, in fact I don't think anyone did anything really wrong.... It's not like anyones eating babies or anything...oh wait a minute I guess we do have a member who does that....
In short Kristy you are not proving anything here, for sure not that you are smarter than everyone. Take some time, relax, and if you ever want to talk you know where I am...
I still think we can agree to disagree like I tried to say to you on MSN last night. We all lose from this...
Good luck Kristy, I know you need a break...
Sorry guys, but I have filtered out the beloved F-word... it seems to be the general consensus here.
I'm not sure where you have found the consensus here Graham. Your poll looks to me like there is an even split with the members that have answered it.
Personally I don't see a difference in seeing the actual word or a bunch of symbols where everyone knows what the word is. I thought that we were having a bit of a debate which I hope is what the point of a forum is.
I feel like I am sitting right in the middle of a fence here. I have seen more active discussions in the past month on the forum than in the previous six months. However there does seem to be a trend to try to over-control some of the discussions, especially off-topic or general ones.
You can add me to the list of over 40 year olds that would prefer not to see four letter words as part of the text that I am reading in any forum that I spend time reading. There are rules against swearing in tournament situations, so poker does seem to be a venue that can be sensitive to it.
Is there a valid reason why it is needed? I like to swear like a drunken sailor some times too, but if a good majority (or even half of the members on this site) of people are offended by it, I will compromise and take the ****. Can there not be some compromise????
Personally I don't see a difference in seeing the actual word or a bunch of symbols where everyone knows what the word is.
Exactly. The difference is that some members who prefer not to see the actual word can impose their will upon the rest of the users who will need to find alternate ways to type it in or see stars.
Exactly. The difference is that some members who prefer not to see the actual word can impose their will upon the rest of the users who will need to find alternate ways to type it in or see stars.
Again I say, ridiculous.
Finding a way to get around a filter added in place, to me will be exactly like breaking a rule of the forum, and thus a warning/ban should follow. It is one thing to not have a filter, but if a filter is in place, I would expect members to either type the word in and have it ***'ed, and not try to find ways around it.
Disclaimer: This is strictly my personal view and does not in any way reflect that of Graham and Greg who will ultimately decide on what is best for them as owners of this forum.
Is there a valid reason why it is needed? I like to swear like a drunken sailor some times too, but if a good majority (or even half of the members on this site) of people are offended by it, I will compromise and take the ****. Can there not be some compromise????
I thought that what I was stating was my preference in the world, not my expectation. As I said, I also thought that I was just joining a debate not an inquisition.
Should we differentiate between those who are offended by casual swearing and those who are offended by someone using swear words in an attacking manner? Two different things in my opinion. Only the latter offends me. In fact to me this whole thing really didn't have anything to do with swearing, the issue really should have been are we allowed to attack one another publicly. Somehow the whole issue turned into, can we swear or can't we... Anyone know how the issue got sidetracked?
I thought that what I was stating was my preference in the world, not my expectation. As I said, I also thought that I was just joining a debate not an inquisition.
Well maybe I was wrong about the consensus if everyone just posted thats how they felt, but didn't actually want it to happen?
Why don't I start a new poll that directly addresses the question at hand, rather than the one that is there that.
I do not consider myself a prude, however I have spent more time on the forum in the last month and I am astonished at the language that is being written into some of the topics, let alone in the titles. To me this is a poublic forum and I would not speak like that in public so I am sure I would not put F this and F that into print.
Is this normal and accepted text? Then I am too sensitive. If not please use the preview button before posting
Sure, not everyone wants to read it. Know what? Kristy started a thread that was going to be very interesting IMO, and 13cards (along with others) misunderstood the intent. Kristy did not want to be told how big an asshole she was... she got that... but 13cards, perhaps in his misunderstanding, perhaps in his intentions, took the opportunity to potshot her.
This has turned into a MUCH bigger deal than it should have. I've been on this forum for years. Have I sworn? Yes... Have others? Yes.. have some people come across it and probably preferred they hadn't? Sure. Is that to be dealt with? No.
This is a public forum, there were never any restrictions on swearing. Graham, your actions are exasperating the situation. Locked threads, bannings, polls about stuff that is - when it boils down to it - stupid. This is a molehill issue, one that comes up (came up) fairly regularly on this and many other forums, and has always sorted itself out in short order.
We're not children, and we're not looking to be policed. You are the (NEW) owner of this site, sure... you have the right to do as you please. I am a long term user of this site, I don't have tolerance for rights being denied. You bought this site for what it was... don't change it, it's like "Oh, you're the woman / man of my dreams! Let's marry! Okay, now, stop doing this this this and this"
I have talked with other forumers as well, and they've said "I've not been on the site in days, not worth reading all the BS"... guess what, that isn't Kristy's fault.
This is a public forum, there were never any restrictions on swearing. Graham, your actions are exasperating the situation. Locked threads, bannings, polls about stuff that is - when it boils down to it - stupid.
QFT
We're not children, and we're not looking to be policed. You are the (NEW) owner of this site, sure... you have the right to do as you please. I am a long term user of this site, I don't have tolerance for rights being denied. You bought this site for what it was... don't change it
The fact of the matter is is that people are getting offended unnecessarily. If we changed the F-word to the C-word or the N-word, would that make a difference in the way you view it? If I'm telling you that I get offended by seeing excessive use of that word, does that mean anything to you? Does your right to exercise the use of that specific offensive word supercede my right to view conversations that don't cause me (and others) to be offended. There are several other words in the english language that can be used to get your point across. I'm asking, as a poster, friend, opponent, whatever...to tone it down a bit.
I am one of the first members to join this forum (52nd I think) and if we can't respect eachothers reasonable wishes then I'm not sure I want to be part of it much longer. Not a threat, just a ponderance. We're talking about one word, an offensive word. Please exercise caution in using it.
I'm asking, as a poster, friend, opponent, whatever...to tone it down a bit.
I think this is an entirely reasonable request!
I have decided to remove the filter because since adding it, it seems like more and more people are just trying to get around it to prove a point, and it is therefore making the issue even worse that it was to begin with. I only added it because it seemed like something the majority of members wanted, but obviously I have no realized from the results in the poll that this was not the case. All I ask along with many of the other members is that you just try to have some respect for your fellow friends and other members and try to tone it down a little.
This is the last I intend on posting on this subject so consider this case closed. Can we get back to talking about poker now and throw all this BS behind us!
Sorry to everyone for all these stupid posts lately. I am in awful shape from my surgery and these things are just adding some unneccessary stress. I ask that you please end this issue now. If you want to continue the discussions, please send me a PM, but I will not respond to any more posts in this thread or any other thread.
Just like to point out now though that we've gone for years without this level of moderation, and no big loss has come of it... things sorted themselves out
I can completely understand a reasonable request to tone down swearing, but locking threads / moderating isn't a request, it's an imposement of one's personal will.
That's a huge difference...
Also, for what it's worth, and to prove my point, the fact that since the moderation has increased, we've lost Kristy, Shannon's talking about not coming here anymore, and now I'm getting fed up to the point where I'm thinking of saying fuck this site, isn't that a sign that the actions taken were inappropriate or at least unnecessary?
Also, for what it's worth, and to prove my point, the fact that since the moderation has increased, we've lost Kristy, Shannon's talking about not coming here anymore, and now I'm getting fed up to the point where I'm thinking of saying fuck this site, isn't that a sign that the actions taken were inappropriate or at least unnecessary?
Mark
From a different POV, who have we lost in the past 2-3 years when I worked with a much longer leash? I think we can easily name more than a few "frequent" and "valuable" contributors whom have left. Even though it might not be entirely due to all the drama going on, I know for a fact there has been a couple whom I have spoken to in person that said it was the main reason for their departure.
I think we can easily name more than a few "frequent" and "valuable" contributors whom have left.
amen, brother wes. this is exactly what i have been thinking.
i came here a couple years back to learn more about poker and get involved in the local poker scene. there were some great posters - scotty, lou, dave, devin, etc. (apologies to those i have forgotten) who really made this a great environment for learning. they took the time to answer noobs questions and explain how to look at a hand.
fast forward a couple of years. most of those posters don't post here anymore. (nice to see devin, even lou, posting again, once in a while, though.) i will say a few new people have come in to fill some of that void. kudos to them. IMO the feeling here today doesn't come close to what it was like back then. i think the change started with "the babies on the bus go waa waa waa" (note the vague historical reference.)
the nice thing about this site is i've actually played against a bunch of the above mentioned players and many others from here, too. i've developed some good acquaintances and poker rivalries with some of the posters here over the years.
i'm not a noob anymore but there's still lots i need to learn. i'd like to get back to poker. time to adjust the s/n ratio.
Comments
I like that one Johnnie, I remember at least one tournament there where the jar was overflowing... lol.. I think even snowflake contributed.
Is that why we rarely play there any more, we can't beat the "rake".
Between Mark, Mario and I those kids are going to Harvard or UW for sure.
Are you suggesting something like, "Swear all you like for $1.00 CPF per word?"
'Scuse me while I just close this bulkhead door . . .
Please not that the author in no way endoreses this idea.
lol....
Maybe if we pitch in with the tuition, the kids will return the favor when they take down the WSOP in 2020?
Good call!
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
I'm quitting the forum anyway, thought I'd prove to you all one last time that I am infact smarter than you, and you'd have been better off listening to my argument...which I don't believe has been overcome as of yet.
The following is a copy of a letter I sent to Waltsfriend Sandy,
________________________________________________________
Re: Is everything ok?
Actually I'm completely frustrated. I've spent so much time on this site, trying to make it great and fun, and I feel completely hung out to dry. I feel like I"m speaking french, explaining basic freedoms in such simple terms..and they just don't get it.
This is huge for me, if a swear filter gets added I"m leaving this forum for good. I've fought so hard for every joy and freedom in my life. Not many people know this, but it was this forum and chatting about/playing poker that helped bring real joy back into my life while in my abusive marriage. I walked around lifeless and souless for so long, it was the freedom and the mental stimulation that helped me remember that there was more to life than the isolation and cruelty I was being subjected to. As I had long since forgotten.
These whiners don't even care about the freedom that they are trampling on because they've never been forced to live without it. They don't know what it is like to be afraid to say what you want, to the point where it becomes normal to say or think nothing.
I will NOT stand by and have one of them taking it from me because some asshole needs to manipulate the forum into a pleasing esthetic.
This IS a fundamental wrong.
_______________________________________________________
Best of luck all, I cannot and will not yield on this issue
But black is black and I won't call it white for you or anyone else. You are dead wrong on the issue at hand and if you can't accept that maybe it's better for both you and the forum if you move along.
Sincerely,
Caddy
Talk to you later!
Edit.. I have put your account as temp banned for 7 days to give you some time to cool off and think things over. Hope to see you back after that!
In short Kristy you are not proving anything here, for sure not that you are smarter than everyone. Take some time, relax, and if you ever want to talk you know where I am...
I still think we can agree to disagree like I tried to say to you on MSN last night. We all lose from this...
Good luck Kristy, I know you need a break...
I'm not sure where you have found the consensus here Graham. Your poll looks to me like there is an even split with the members that have answered it.
Personally I don't see a difference in seeing the actual word or a bunch of symbols where everyone knows what the word is. I thought that we were having a bit of a debate which I hope is what the point of a forum is.
I feel like I am sitting right in the middle of a fence here. I have seen more active discussions in the past month on the forum than in the previous six months. However there does seem to be a trend to try to over-control some of the discussions, especially off-topic or general ones.
I thought this was something you wanted also:
Is there a valid reason why it is needed? I like to swear like a drunken sailor some times too, but if a good majority (or even half of the members on this site) of people are offended by it, I will compromise and take the ****. Can there not be some compromise????
Exactly. The difference is that some members who prefer not to see the actual word can impose their will upon the rest of the users who will need to find alternate ways to type it in or see stars.
Again I say, ridiculous.
Finding a way to get around a filter added in place, to me will be exactly like breaking a rule of the forum, and thus a warning/ban should follow. It is one thing to not have a filter, but if a filter is in place, I would expect members to either type the word in and have it ***'ed, and not try to find ways around it.
Disclaimer: This is strictly my personal view and does not in any way reflect that of Graham and Greg who will ultimately decide on what is best for them as owners of this forum.
I thought that what I was stating was my preference in the world, not my expectation. As I said, I also thought that I was just joining a debate not an inquisition.
Well maybe I was wrong about the consensus if everyone just posted thats how they felt, but didn't actually want it to happen?
Why don't I start a new poll that directly addresses the question at hand, rather than the one that is there that.
Here everyone:
Vote now, majority rules after 7 days:
http://www.pokerforum.ca/showthread.php?t=15050
Um, maybe the OP.....
I think that was the original post, but a whole barrel of issues came out of this thread. Please go vote guys!!!!
People swear
I swear
A lot
Get over it.
Sure, not everyone wants to read it. Know what? Kristy started a thread that was going to be very interesting IMO, and 13cards (along with others) misunderstood the intent. Kristy did not want to be told how big an asshole she was... she got that... but 13cards, perhaps in his misunderstanding, perhaps in his intentions, took the opportunity to potshot her.
This has turned into a MUCH bigger deal than it should have. I've been on this forum for years. Have I sworn? Yes... Have others? Yes.. have some people come across it and probably preferred they hadn't? Sure. Is that to be dealt with? No.
This is a public forum, there were never any restrictions on swearing. Graham, your actions are exasperating the situation. Locked threads, bannings, polls about stuff that is - when it boils down to it - stupid. This is a molehill issue, one that comes up (came up) fairly regularly on this and many other forums, and has always sorted itself out in short order.
We're not children, and we're not looking to be policed. You are the (NEW) owner of this site, sure... you have the right to do as you please. I am a long term user of this site, I don't have tolerance for rights being denied. You bought this site for what it was... don't change it, it's like "Oh, you're the woman / man of my dreams! Let's marry! Okay, now, stop doing this this this and this"
I have talked with other forumers as well, and they've said "I've not been on the site in days, not worth reading all the BS"... guess what, that isn't Kristy's fault.
It's everyone's.
Now stop being stupid people.
Mark
QFT
QFT
QFT
QFT
I am one of the first members to join this forum (52nd I think) and if we can't respect eachothers reasonable wishes then I'm not sure I want to be part of it much longer. Not a threat, just a ponderance. We're talking about one word, an offensive word. Please exercise caution in using it.
stp
I think this is an entirely reasonable request!
I have decided to remove the filter because since adding it, it seems like more and more people are just trying to get around it to prove a point, and it is therefore making the issue even worse that it was to begin with. I only added it because it seemed like something the majority of members wanted, but obviously I have no realized from the results in the poll that this was not the case. All I ask along with many of the other members is that you just try to have some respect for your fellow friends and other members and try to tone it down a little.
This is the last I intend on posting on this subject so consider this case closed. Can we get back to talking about poker now and throw all this BS behind us!
Sorry to everyone for all these stupid posts lately. I am in awful shape from my surgery and these things are just adding some unneccessary stress. I ask that you please end this issue now. If you want to continue the discussions, please send me a PM, but I will not respond to any more posts in this thread or any other thread.
Thank you!
Just like to point out now though that we've gone for years without this level of moderation, and no big loss has come of it... things sorted themselves out
I can completely understand a reasonable request to tone down swearing, but locking threads / moderating isn't a request, it's an imposement of one's personal will.
That's a huge difference...
Also, for what it's worth, and to prove my point, the fact that since the moderation has increased, we've lost Kristy, Shannon's talking about not coming here anymore, and now I'm getting fed up to the point where I'm thinking of saying fuck this site, isn't that a sign that the actions taken were inappropriate or at least unnecessary?
Mark
From a different POV, who have we lost in the past 2-3 years when I worked with a much longer leash? I think we can easily name more than a few "frequent" and "valuable" contributors whom have left. Even though it might not be entirely due to all the drama going on, I know for a fact there has been a couple whom I have spoken to in person that said it was the main reason for their departure.
amen, brother wes. this is exactly what i have been thinking.
i came here a couple years back to learn more about poker and get involved in the local poker scene. there were some great posters - scotty, lou, dave, devin, etc. (apologies to those i have forgotten) who really made this a great environment for learning. they took the time to answer noobs questions and explain how to look at a hand.
fast forward a couple of years. most of those posters don't post here anymore. (nice to see devin, even lou, posting again, once in a while, though.) i will say a few new people have come in to fill some of that void. kudos to them. IMO the feeling here today doesn't come close to what it was like back then. i think the change started with "the babies on the bus go waa waa waa" (note the vague historical reference.)
the nice thing about this site is i've actually played against a bunch of the above mentioned players and many others from here, too. i've developed some good acquaintances and poker rivalries with some of the posters here over the years.
i'm not a noob anymore but there's still lots i need to learn. i'd like to get back to poker. time to adjust the s/n ratio.