Thanks guys, I'm going to submit my post to "Modern Parent" magazine. Apparently, the 7 points I made about poker directly affect the age that children should learn about sex. Amazing.
Back off and get your own salad (ie, start your own OT thread to whine about this stuff)
Maybe if your points were at all interesting then they would have stimulated more discussion along those liines. You have stated nothing new other than realting obvious points to the reasons why you are no longer a mildly successful low limit player.
Thanks guys, I'm going to submit my post to "Modern Parent" magazine. Apparently, the 7 points I made about poker directly affect the age that children should learn about sex. Amazing.
Back off and get your own salad (ie, start your own OT thread to whine about this stuff)
Maybe if your points were at all interesting then they would have stimulated more discussion along those liines. You have stated nothing new other than realting obvious points to the reasons why you are no longer a mildly successful low limit player.
I kinda have to agree with GTA on this one, but I'll throw in my 2 cents to your original post to try and make BBC happy and get the thread on topic. If you've lost your desire don't play, it's simple. Take up stamp collecting, coin collecting, bird watching whatever. I think no one really cares if you play or don't play.
1) Limit poker is a grind. Well we knew that from the start. Almost all of the decisions that effect your winrate are made pre-flop and on the flop. The turn and river usually invoke either value betting or pot-odds calling. All these hand histories that get posted that ask Call or Fold are probably equivalent in EV over the long term. Barely worth the discussion in the first place. Once you get around 7 or 8 to one, you likely aren't very wrong in going to the river with anything.
Yes limit is a grind, actually all forms of poker are a grind in my opinion. If it was sooooo easy everyone would be a pro poker player. I've had jobs that are a grind too. Sure if your getting 7 or 8 to one calling down is always an option because you probably aren't that far behind but most of the battle is in getting to that point where you have a reasonable expectation to win at that point.Â
2) The general population in the online poker world has gotten substantially smarter in the last 2 years. While the fishies haven't become rare, they are not as easy to track down. Most tables consist of 4-5 TA's and the rest of various tightness levels. It seems like most players have understood that pure crap is unplayable, but they don't know why.
On line yes and it depends on the site, live I don't believe so there are still the hollywood style donks who have watched 2 episodes of WSOP poker and feel they are world beaters. Also I think most people are playing some memorized rules e.g. raise 10 10 or better fold everything else, play tight for 4 levels then push, kill phil or whatever. They don't want to know why.Â
3) Most players don't understand the 'Why' of poker. Why do you bet? Why do you raise? Why am I playing? Do you? I've sat at enough tables in my life where people get into the stupidest poker theory debates ever.
Answer in item 2. A lot don't want to know why. Some of those who do, participate in this forum, have discussion over +EV - EV benefits of LAG or TAG etc. However if the more poker proficient replay with YAWN or search this it doesn't help those who do want to learn. Unfortunately when your proficient at something you will hear what seems to be the same stupid question over and over, just because it is obvious to you, doesn't mean it's obvious to others.Â
4) You see uncomfortable levels of agression online. This pretty much compels you to call down with anything.
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. I play far more aggressively on line because some will call with anything. I've made a $400 raise with 30/60 blinds and gotten 5 callers. From your post I see you've chosen to get out of the kitchen.Â
5) No Limit is all about reads. Posting hands is practically useless. If you think the guy will fold to your bet, how can anyone ever question it? In a game with 20% of hands going to showdown, reads are all you have to work eith. I saw a thread today about a NL hand where OP made two pair on the flop, boated on the river and lost to a bigger full house. The suggestion was to raise the flop and win the pot right there. That's a great way to make sure you win the minimum with your good hands. OP flopped a hidden hand. Why wouldn't he peel a few a pop the river? Why win next to nothing with a great hand?
I was one who advocated raising simply because on line you will not get people to fold. If I have a good hand (2 pair) I want to make anyone to pay to out draw me. If they are ahead with a set or something so be it. This is directly related to item 4 and the levels of aggression you need on line to be successful in my opinion.Â
6) Poker is boring. Oops, I said it. It's BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING. Sure once in every 100 hands you make a read to steal a pot, but is it an effective use of your time? Playing large stack tournies that last 10 hours? I think quite a few ppl around here should really do a cost/benefit analysis of the expense of making a few hundred bucks while you spend the best years of your life sitting infront of a computer to do it. Either move up or move out.
A lot of things in life are boring, spending 30 minutes to handicap a race that's over in under 2 minutes is boring and that 2 minutes may be exciting or boring as well. If it is your job then you should be doing a cost/benefit analysis, if it's for enjoyment go LAG it up and have fun. I use it to have fun, hopefully make me a little smarter (I love math, stats and probability). It gives me the ability to go out and get a few things for my kid that a teenager wants. Yes it sometimes pisses me off (sorry about the bad beat posts).Â
7) Live poker is the shizznit.
WTF is shizznit? I think live poker is in someways similar to party in it's heyday or is that infancy? That's because of the WHY of why people go to the casino. They don't go to fold fold fold, they go to play. They want action, which is what craps, BJ, slots is about. It's not about waiting for 20 minutes to play a hand then getting rivered. They would rather play and play then fold then play and if they get rivered it's ok cuz they had shit to start with.Â
Maybe if your points were at all interesting then they would have stimulated more discussion along those liines. You have stated nothing new other than realting obvious points to the reasons why you are no longer a mildly successful low limit player.
Maybe if your points were at all interesting then they would have stimulated more discussion along those liines. You have stated nothing new other than realting obvious points to the reasons why you are no longer a mildly successful low limit player.
You are right. Bye.
Maybe it's GTA's avatar, but everytime he posts I think "BBC Z Jr.".
Thanks guys, I'm going to submit my post to "Modern Parent" magazine. Apparently, the 7 points I made about poker directly affect the age that children should learn about sex. Amazing.
Back off and get your own salad (ie, start your own OT thread to whine about this stuff)
Please forgive me I have not been here since January.
Someone posts how nothing exciting gets talked about, people start talking about exciting things, original poster says stop talking about the exciting things?
6) Poker is boring. Oops, I said it. It's BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING. Sure once in every 100 hands you make a read to steal a pot, but is it an effective use of your time? Playing large stack tournies that last 10 hours? I think quite a few ppl around here should really do a cost/benefit analysis of the expense of making a few hundred bucks while you spend the best years of your life sitting infront of a computer to do it. Either move up or move out.
Making money at poker is nice but it is not the main reason I play. Live or online for me it is all about competition. The fact that we keep score with $$$ is just a bonus. A big shift in PC video games occured when gamers could play against each other over networks and online. Now virtually no game comes without some sort of online multiplayer capability. Why? Because it is exciting to play against other people and beat them. Online poker is simply a reflection of this. I won't say it is the adult version of video games since lots of adults play video games too but I for one don't play games anymore because I'd rather realize all the competitive aspects of playing against other people while still having the added bonus of the $$$. Maybe it is small bucks but for many people I would think move up or move out does not apply.
Comments
Get over yourself. Discussion was generated and it moved a little from the point of discussion.
Maybe if your points were at all interesting then they would have stimulated more discussion along those liines. You have stated nothing new other than realting obvious points to the reasons why you are no longer a mildly successful low limit player.
I kinda have to agree with GTA on this one, but I'll throw in my 2 cents to your original post to try and make BBC happy and get the thread on topic.Â
Yes limit is a grind, actually all forms of poker are a grind in my opinion. If it was sooooo easy everyone would be a pro poker player. I've had jobs that are a grind too. Sure if your getting 7 or 8 to one calling down is always an option because you probably aren't that far behind but most of the battle is in getting to that point where you have a reasonable expectation to win at that point.Â
On line yes and it depends on the site, live I don't believe so there are still the hollywood style donks who have watched 2 episodes of WSOP poker and feel they are world beaters. Also I think most people are playing some memorized rules e.g. raise 10 10 or better fold everything else, play tight for 4 levels then push, kill phil or whatever. They don't want to know why.Â
Answer in item 2. A lot don't want to know why. Some of those who do, participate in this forum, have discussion over +EV - EV benefits of LAG or TAG etc. However if the more poker proficient replay with YAWN or search this it doesn't help those who do want to learn. Unfortunately when your proficient at something you will hear what seems to be the same stupid question over and over, just because it is obvious to you, doesn't mean it's obvious to others.Â
If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. I play far more aggressively on line because some will call with anything. I've made a $400 raise with 30/60 blinds and gotten 5 callers. From your post I see you've chosen to get out of the kitchen.Â
I was one who advocated raising simply because on line you will not get people to fold. If I have a good hand (2 pair) I want to make anyone to pay to out draw me. If they are ahead with a set or something so be it. This is directly related to item 4 and the levels of aggression you need on line to be successful in my opinion.Â
A lot of things in life are boring, spending 30 minutes to handicap a race that's over in under 2 minutes is boring and that 2 minutes may be exciting or boring as well. If it is your job then you should be doing a cost/benefit analysis, if it's for enjoyment go LAG it up and have fun. I use it to have fun, hopefully make me a little smarter (I love math, stats and probability). It gives me the ability to go out and get a few things for my kid that a teenager wants. Yes it sometimes pisses me off (sorry about the bad beat posts).Â
WTF is shizznit? I think live poker is in someways similar to party in it's heyday or is that infancy? That's because of the WHY of why people go to the casino. They don't go to fold fold fold, they go to play. They want action, which is what craps, BJ, slots is about. It's not about waiting for 20 minutes to play a hand then getting rivered. They would rather play and play then fold then play and if they get rivered it's ok cuz they had shit to start with.Â
You are right. Bye.
Maybe it's GTA's avatar, but everytime he posts I think "BBC Z Jr.".
Please forgive me I have not been here since January.
Someone posts how nothing exciting gets talked about, people start talking about exciting things, original poster says stop talking about the exciting things?
I'm confused.
Steve
Making money at poker is nice but it is not the main reason I play. Live or online for me it is all about competition. The fact that we keep score with $$$ is just a bonus. A big shift in PC video games occured when gamers could play against each other over networks and online. Now virtually no game comes without some sort of online multiplayer capability. Why? Because it is exciting to play against other people and beat them. Online poker is simply a reflection of this. I won't say it is the adult version of video games since lots of adults play video games too but I for one don't play games anymore because I'd rather realize all the competitive aspects of playing against other people while still having the added bonus of the $$$. Maybe it is small bucks but for many people I would think move up or move out does not apply.