I am an atheist. If you think it's hard to be open about your faith, try be open and honest about your atheism. We tend to lay pretty low because if we don't we get A LOT of flack.
There are MANY things in the world that offend me. But, I try to be easy going, eat meat, and get along.
well said Dave. That makes two of us on all counts ( i keep teetering between agnostic/atheist)
"for every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three" sorry had to chirp that in.
*On another note, this post has now been reported by two members. So far, I don't see any personally directed comments to individuals. Please appreciate that this topic may be sensitive to some*
I guess that's a bit hypocritical after my comments...but, there you have it.
I apologize for discussing something that so disinterests you. I guess I shouldn't force you to read this and make an incoherent remark.
Trevor,
No there is no direct reference to the word "gambling" in the bible. However it is commonly lumped together with greed and gain money in either dishonest ways or ways that force you to put money at risk. (1 Timothy 3:8, 1 Timothy 6:10 and to some extent 1 Corinthians 6:10).
But I can see that there are some people who don't care about what we discuss to if you want to take this offline, feel free.
Well,as another poster pointed out there is nothing in the Bible says that anything about gambling being a sin. Personally I think anything you do that becomes an obsession can be sinful- eating too much, drinking too much, becoming obsessed with money, etc.
If I was obsessed with life would it then become a sin?
As long as poker doesn't interfere with your relationship with God I don't see a problem with it. If you put gambling before God that would be a problem. If gambling is destroying your family, I see that as a problem
What if your relationship with God destroys your family? If I become obssessed with God and it starts to tear my family apart, am I committing a sin?
I often get the argument that what I do isn't Godly, I.e. taking other peoples money. What endeavor or business would this not be true? You open a restaurant, that's a gamble. You get married, that's a gamble. You invest in the stock market, well we all know that's a gamble!
Wow. How less insightful can one be? You open a restaurant and you try to provide a service that people will think valuable and in return pay you for that service. I don't see how a restaurant is considered a gamble in the sense that Daniel is alluding to.
Getting married is a gamble? Jesu ... err, you got to be kidding me. I didn't realize that a close relationship with someone is considered a gamble. Hey wait a sec. Could a relationship with God be considered a gamble?
I make my living by being better than my opponents at a game. Shaquille O'Neal does the same thing. He makes millions of dollars because he is better than has opponents. Does he take money from people directly? Not exactly, but indirectly he does. He's the best player on his team and makes more money than they do. If other teammates improve their play they'll make more money.
Daniel makes his money in a game where he is trying to convince another person that they do not have him beat via betting strategies, facial expressions, etc. If he can convince (lie?) the other person that they do not have him beat then he will take their money.
Shaq became a better player then some by being physically better than them. Yes there is some mental play that occurs but for the most part it's physical. Sports players, in general, get paid by selling seats to their games or by convincing people that they need to buy the product they are putting their name on. The more the owners want the players on their teams then the more they will pay them, which, in turn means the more that people will pay for the seats or the products. If you ask me, that's a sin.
There are a million similar apologies you could use. Get a promotion at a company because you work harder than other employees. .. etc.
It's not sinful to be rich. In fact in the Bible it states that some will have more than others. It's sinful to obsesses about money and make it your God... I don't think I do that.
Having said all that I do feel a moral obligation to use the gift I was given in a positive way. Whether it be to make a difference in someone's life or to aid those less fortunate.
Finally, something insightful and positive. What charities does he give to? How does he use his money to help others? I think this would be GREAT to read about. I'm never going to be rich from poker (big suprise) but I donate blood every 2 months and I have added my name to the national Bone Marrow donor list. I think if we saw more of what Daniel does, in order to help people, then perhaps it could inspire others to do the same or to do things to help that don't involve poker.
I don't understand why religeon gets "fuzzy" with regards to certain topics. If gambling is a sin (as directed by whatever it needs to be directed by to call it a sin) and you believe in your God then stop doing it. Don't start trying to twist things or justify things. I mean if you start doing that then God will take you hostage just like he took Oral Roberts hostage (google "oral roberts god hostage 1986").
All those who know me well, know that I'm am very much against people forcing their beliefs (religious, spiritual or otherwise) on anyone. I would defend, to my dying breath, a person's right to practice said beliefs as long as they don't harm anyone or infringe upon someone else's. Granted, this is next to impossible but it's something I feel we should all strive for. It requires many things such as being sympathetic to other people feelings (and how what you do affects them) and also putting things into perspective by trying to have an open mind.
As for Ferguson. He's an easy going dude who obviously looks like the western interpretation of Jesus (ie. white guy with long brown hair and beard). It is somewhat uncanny. Granted he is a gambler (which is forbidden in the bible, along with eating meat on Friday and many, many, many,many other things) but by my books he is a fairly decent and good person. Thereby not besmirching the name in the least. I'm not clear on the reason why someone having the nickname is bad or offensive since it's seems to be spoken and used a lot by a lot significantly less decent people (ie. convicted televangelists, White Supremesists, etc...) Don't get me wrong I'm not saying all or even a large margin of people who use his name for their purposes are bad just that this issue seems a little silly when they are far more heinous things being done (associated with Jesus) that I feel should be of a far higher concern.
Wes. It's pretty plain to see that our world is not starting to neglect religion but quite the opposite considering the fact that the majority of the middle-east is controlled by religious states. Canada has followed suit with the states in electing a right wing conservative government who have made no qualms about pushing several non-leftist or moderate agendas. We are fortunate that Canada's right wing movement is still, generally speaking, way left of the american right wing movement.
It is next to impossible to have a discussion about anything to do with religion and secularism without it turning into a heated debate so in the spirit of friendship I want to say that I hope my statements haven't hurt any feelings or upset anyone, it was not my intent.
On a much happier note. I don't know about you, Flint Bones, but my itinerary says we leave on Thursday March 30th. Unless, maybe, you don't want to go down the same time as us anymore and this is your way of letting us know. I'll go ahead and make the necessary calls to have your flight changed to the 31st (heh heh).
I don't understand why religeon gets "fuzzy" with regards to certain topics. If gambling is a sin (as directed by whatever it needs to be directed by to call it a sin) and you believe in your God then stop doing it. Don't start trying to twist things or justify things.
There's way too much in your post to try to reasonably respond to quickly - are these questions actually sincere (if so I'll gladly take the time to respond) or simply shots at Daniel's letter? Â As for this last line, if I believed that playing poker were a sin I would stop, period. Â I am not attempting to twist or justify anything, and I am always willing to listen to other opinions (just in case I missed something). But based on everything I've studied, I am not convinced it is wrong.
It is next to impossible to have a discussion about anything to do with religion and secularism without it turning into a heated debate so in the spirit of friendship I want to say that I hope my statements haven't hurt any feelings or upset anyone, it was not my intent.
Wow - you've covered more topics than I can shake a stick at. Â I think we can debate without getting too hot, but online, it'll probably blow-up. Â Maybe you can catch up with me and Andrew sometime
And now the topic is closed. We all agree and love each other. The end.
Now, what really gets me going is that Mike "the Mouth" Matosus (I can't be bothered to spell it correctlya and I know I really spelled it wrong, like Cole Woods wrong) uses "the mouth" as a nickname. As a longtime sufferer of asthma I find it really offensive that he brings up the mouth in such a derogatory way. I was a bubble boy for pete's sake and it is not funny to make light of my sufferring.
IMHO, whether or not a Christian feel playing poker, or gambling for that matter is a sin, and ultimately a sin against God, is between him/herself and God. Ultimately, it is not others around you who will open the gates of heaven after your life on earth so you may spend eternity with God, it is God Himself who will be the judge. Matthew 7 clearly states that we should not be the judge of others.
I can fix that... apologies in advance, but timing of finding this is just too perfect... beanie, don't go here!!
Never say that. And now to surprise everyone, I found it funny (although it's good that it wasn't published in a Danish newspaper ). I think most beliefs (religious, political, etc.) can appear strange and/or silly to those who don't understand them or simply disagree with them. If this actually happened (and that wouldn't really have surprised me) that would be offensive. However, I can laugh at myself and how my beliefs may appear to others - that doesn't change what I believe - and this little satire appears to have simply been made for fun rather than some big attack, so I'll treat it as such.
As a parallel, I disagree with a lot of what Jon Stewart stands for, but I usually watch him because I love the humourous take on politics, and I do respect his passion and sincerity for his views (even though I disagree with them). Maybe the problem is that people forget that you can take something seriously and still laugh about it.
That said, you are right that this will be offensive to many - proceed with caution.
Just so everyone knows, and hopefully I'm not too too late. I'm sure the video is hilarious, but do not go to Ebaumsworld ever. If your computer is valued anywhere above 75 cents. It is not worth it. It's where spyware comes from. Evil Place.
If you do go however, be sure to check out the edited Gi Joe Public Service announcements. F'n priceless.
Comments
These are reprinted from CardPlayer. Not new.
I am an atheist. If you think it's hard to be open about your faith, try be open and honest about your atheism. We tend to lay pretty low because if we don't we get A LOT of flack.
There are MANY things in the world that offend me. But, I try to be easy going, eat meat, and get along.
"for every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three" sorry had to chirp that in.
*On another note, this post has now been reported by two members. So far, I don't see any personally directed comments to individuals. Please appreciate that this topic may be sensitive to some*
I guess that's a bit hypocritical after my comments...but, there you have it.
This insightful post has been brought to you by the letters B B C Z.
BBC Z bring insightful and thought provoking post to your forum since 2004
I actually thought his comment was quite insightful.
I also think this thread should be in the off topic forum since it seems to have very little if anything to do with poker
I apologize for discussing something that so disinterests you. I guess I shouldn't force you to read this and make an incoherent remark.
Trevor,
No there is no direct reference to the word "gambling" in the bible. However it is commonly lumped together with greed and gain money in either dishonest ways or ways that force you to put money at risk. (1 Timothy 3:8, 1 Timothy 6:10 and to some extent 1 Corinthians 6:10).
But I can see that there are some people who don't care about what we discuss to if you want to take this offline, feel free.
If I was obsessed with life would it then become a sin?
What if your relationship with God destroys your family? If I become obssessed with God and it starts to tear my family apart, am I committing a sin?
Wow. How less insightful can one be? You open a restaurant and you try to provide a service that people will think valuable and in return pay you for that service. I don't see how a restaurant is considered a gamble in the sense that Daniel is alluding to.
Getting married is a gamble? Jesu ... err, you got to be kidding me. I didn't realize that a close relationship with someone is considered a gamble. Hey wait a sec. Could a relationship with God be considered a gamble?
Daniel makes his money in a game where he is trying to convince another person that they do not have him beat via betting strategies, facial expressions, etc. If he can convince (lie?) the other person that they do not have him beat then he will take their money.
Shaq became a better player then some by being physically better than them. Yes there is some mental play that occurs but for the most part it's physical. Sports players, in general, get paid by selling seats to their games or by convincing people that they need to buy the product they are putting their name on. The more the owners want the players on their teams then the more they will pay them, which, in turn means the more that people will pay for the seats or the products. If you ask me, that's a sin.
Finally, something insightful and positive. What charities does he give to? How does he use his money to help others? I think this would be GREAT to read about. I'm never going to be rich from poker (big suprise) but I donate blood every 2 months and I have added my name to the national Bone Marrow donor list. I think if we saw more of what Daniel does, in order to help people, then perhaps it could inspire others to do the same or to do things to help that don't involve poker.
I don't understand why religeon gets "fuzzy" with regards to certain topics. If gambling is a sin (as directed by whatever it needs to be directed by to call it a sin) and you believe in your God then stop doing it. Don't start trying to twist things or justify things. I mean if you start doing that then God will take you hostage just like he took Oral Roberts hostage (google "oral roberts god hostage 1986").
~SP
As for Ferguson. He's an easy going dude who obviously looks like the western interpretation of Jesus (ie. white guy with long brown hair and beard). It is somewhat uncanny. Granted he is a gambler (which is forbidden in the bible, along with eating meat on Friday and many, many, many,many other things) but by my books he is a fairly decent and good person. Thereby not besmirching the name in the least. I'm not clear on the reason why someone having the nickname is bad or offensive since it's seems to be spoken and used a lot by a lot significantly less decent people (ie. convicted televangelists, White Supremesists, etc...) Don't get me wrong I'm not saying all or even a large margin of people who use his name for their purposes are bad just that this issue seems a little silly when they are far more heinous things being done (associated with Jesus) that I feel should be of a far higher concern.
Wes. It's pretty plain to see that our world is not starting to neglect religion but quite the opposite considering the fact that the majority of the middle-east is controlled by religious states. Canada has followed suit with the states in electing a right wing conservative government who have made no qualms about pushing several non-leftist or moderate agendas. We are fortunate that Canada's right wing movement is still, generally speaking, way left of the american right wing movement.
It is next to impossible to have a discussion about anything to do with religion and secularism without it turning into a heated debate so in the spirit of friendship I want to say that I hope my statements haven't hurt any feelings or upset anyone, it was not my intent.
On a much happier note. I don't know about you, Flint Bones, but my itinerary says we leave on Thursday March 30th. Unless, maybe, you don't want to go down the same time as us anymore and this is your way of letting us know. I'll go ahead and make the necessary calls to have your flight changed to the 31st (heh heh).
Steve
Vegas, baby. VEGAS!
There's way too much in your post to try to reasonably respond to quickly - are these questions actually sincere (if so I'll gladly take the time to respond) or simply shots at Daniel's letter? Â As for this last line, if I believed that playing poker were a sin I would stop, period. Â I am not attempting to twist or justify anything, and I am always willing to listen to other opinions (just in case I missed something). But based on everything I've studied, I am not convinced it is wrong.
Love to - maybe we'll chat next time I see ya
Wow - you've covered more topics than I can shake a stick at. Â I think we can debate without getting too hot, but online, it'll probably blow-up. Â Maybe you can catch up with me and Andrew sometime
Now, what really gets me going is that Mike "the Mouth" Matosus (I can't be bothered to spell it correctlya and I know I really spelled it wrong, like Cole Woods wrong) uses "the mouth" as a nickname. As a longtime sufferer of asthma I find it really offensive that he brings up the mouth in such a derogatory way. I was a bubble boy for pete's sake and it is not funny to make light of my sufferring.
What?!?
I can fix that... apologies in advance, but timing of finding this is just too perfect... beanie, don't go here!!
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/mcpassion.html
So very, very insulting... to EVERYONE
As a parallel, I disagree with a lot of what Jon Stewart stands for, but I usually watch him because I love the humourous take on politics, and I do respect his passion and sincerity for his views (even though I disagree with them). Maybe the problem is that people forget that you can take something seriously and still laugh about it.
That said, you are right that this will be offensive to many - proceed with caution.
Just so everyone knows, and hopefully I'm not too too late. I'm sure the video is hilarious, but do not go to Ebaumsworld ever. If your computer is valued anywhere above 75 cents. It is not worth it. It's where spyware comes from. Evil Place.
If you do go however, be sure to check out the edited Gi Joe Public Service announcements. F'n priceless.
Cheers
If ignorance is bliss then you are in heaven.
Pun intended.
BCC55
Life is too short to be so tightly wrapped!
God is a ridiculous concept anyhow
I feel a sermon coming on. Is my retirement about to be over? We might have to have lunch one day soon GTA.
Prophet 22