Daniel Negreanu

T_Mac

Ok, I used to love this guy, he was entertaining, a great player, and hes from Toronto, what more could you ask for?

But this guy is really weird! In his last blog he writes about how he spent 8 hours playing a video game called "The Bible", wtf? Not to mention the time he said he asked Chris Ferguson to change his nickname from Jesus because he found it offensive....

specialK

maybe DN is relegious, there is no problem with that... doesn't make him any less of a good guy or poker player if he likes to go to church, play relegious video games or is offended by someones name... not that i'm relegious or anything but i find your post pretty offensive.

beanie42

specialK wrote:

not that i'm relegious or anything but i find your post pretty offensive.

I am religious, and I also find your post offensive. Just to be clear though (in case I'm misunderstanding you), what part do you find "weird". The fact that he believes in a religion, the religion he chooses to believe, or the fact that he is open and honest publically about his beliefs? I disagree (often strongly) with certain people who don't share my faith or my core values, but that doesn't change their value as a person or make them weird (just wrong ).

That said, a blog is inherently personal, and if you don't want to read his "inner thoughts" than don't.

BigChrisEl

T_Mac wrote:

But this guy is really weird! In his last blog he writes about how he spent 8 hours playing a video game called "The Bible", wtf?

What's wrong with playing a Bible game? I mean tons of people play sports trivia and others see no problem with it, how is Bible trivia any different?

westside8

Daniel is in fact religious, he mentioned he has a faith, and I truely admire him being public about his faith, not worrying about how others would view him. As BigChrisEl said, playing a Bible trivia game is similar to those who enjoy sports or entertainment trivia, why does playing a bible trivia game make him any less of a person (or in this case, weirder). As for him asking for Chris Ferguson to change his nickname, Daniel is merely making the statement based on his faith, and IMHO, it takes courage to defend your faith in today's secular world where religious believes are slowly being neglected.

stpboy

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling himself Jesus, it was likely given to him by the media anyway. It's not like he goes around being blasphemous or anything.

Quote from 'Levon' By Elton John

"He calls his son Jesus, 'cause he likes the name"

Great song btw...

On another note, my last name is McMahon (pronounced McMan). "Mc" means 'son of'...lol.

stp

haddon

I worship money, and I wouldn't think twice about asking Moneymaker to change his name

zero

Screw the bibile video game, I think the more important thing is this "secret" place hes going to that he can never tell us about. Any conspiracy theories?

beanie42

stpboy wrote:

I don't think there is anything wrong with calling himself Jesus, it was likely given to him by the media anyway.  It's not like he goes around being blasphemous or anything. 

Wow - I see embers starting in this topic. I love ya Shan, but I strongly disagree with there being nothing wrong (although it was given to him by the media).  I could carry on that discussion if you like when we see each other, but I avoid flame-bait topics online .  

Anyway, that wasn't the whole point of Daniel's statement anyway - it was taken way out of context when only that little piece about Ferguson is mentioned.  Just so there is no confusion, here is the actual quote in question from Daniel:

I let him know one night that some people may find that offensive and he said he didn’t promote the nickname. He then said that he wouldn’t sign autographs like that anymore, but of course that was a lie. I’ve signed tons of hats and t-shirts since and have seen Chris "Jesus" Feguson on many of those hats. I can’t say that I was surprised to see that’s he’d lied, but it was a little disappointing. Why say you are going to stop when you had no intention to? Did he think I wouldn’t find out? His word holds little weight with me. The fact that he is a atheist just makes it even uglier. He tried to justify the nickname by saying that many Mexican families name their children Jesus. However, with Chris, his use of the nickname simply mocks the majority of this country who believe that Jesus was our saviour and died a brutal death for our sins. I’m not as offended by that nickname however as I am of Phil Laak’s use of the "Unabomber."  What next? We have people parading around with nicknames like "Hitler" and "Bin Laden?" What the Unabomber Ted Kisinski[sic] did wasn’t funny. If I lost a loved one at the hands of the Unabomber I would be repulsed by the idea that people may be cheering "Go Unabomber." Imagine for a second a mother watching that on TV? How would she feel about it?

When you take his entire quote in context, his comment was towards various potentially offensive nicknames (not just religious ones) due to the public exposure poker was starting to receive. Negreaneau stated that "some people may find that offensive", and that is simply a fact which I don't believe can be argued.  Whether you think offense is warranted or whether you are one of the "some people" is a different story, but SOME is a certainty.

specialK

beanie42 wrote:

Wow - I see embers starting in this topic.

i saw embers starting when i read the initial statement... yikes

T_Mac

ok nevermind then

stpboy

I just don't think that everyone needs to take everything they see or read or hear so seriously. I'm trying to look for the harm in his nickname being 'Jesus' and I can't find any, I can however find harm in someone calling themselves 'the Unabomber'. Sometimes you just accept things for what they are, it's a name a beautiful name. Sure, I understand that 'it's the most holy name in the bible and on Earth' but I don't believe he is being disrespectful by using it. If he was a devout Christian with the name Jesus that was doing humanitarian work around the world, noone would have a problem with it. If the issue is that he is a poker player with the name then I suggest that anyone that is a devout Christian with poker as a hobby rethink thier position of thier habits...

I'm not saying that I'm right and someone else is wrong. I don't do that. I would just wish that people wouldn't make issues out of things that don't really need to be made issue out of. I could understand more if his name was Chris "Satan" Ferguson but it's not, it's Jesus. Noone is worshipping a false god here, it's just a name.....

One more small point in my smattered ramblings here, does anyone really think that God would be upset about this? I'd hope not.


stp

pkrfce9

He tried to justify the nickname by saying that many Mexican families name their children Jesus.

Is Daniel offended by Mexicans as well?

Thank God Ferguson's nickname isn't Mohammed. Millions of Muslims might be offended. He could well have been killed by now. Especially if he was featured in a cartoon. Oh wait, there are millions of Muslims named Mohammed...

What about people named Mary? The list goes on. Just thinking about it, I workd with a guy named Osama. Not to many have said 'Bin Laden' in his presence out loud. Yet.

I wonder how all these people sign their 'autographs'... This is a silly topic.

Flint Bones

Personally I am not offended by the nickname but I understand why some people could be offended. Should he change his name? That is not for me or anyone else but Chris to decide. I commend Daniel for asking him to, it shows that Daniel has conviction.

I think we should break from the theological discussionof whether or not using the name Jesus is different from using Mary or Paul. There's a difference.

If he was a devout Christian with the name Jesus that was doing humanitarian work around the world, noone would have a problem with it. If the issue is that he is a poker player with the name then I suggest that anyone that is a devout Christian with poker as a hobby rethink thier position of thier habits...

The difference here is that no devout Christian would ever use "Jesus" as a nickname. It has nothing to do with the poker playing aspect. Although if you really want to get into a biblical discussion (and I am sure you don't), God doesn't like gambling in the first place. He says don't do it.

On to happier thoughts. I am going to Vegas on March 31! Let the debauchery begin!

ol-stone-face

It would be good if all public figures put up personal blogs like that. I used to like Negreanu but now that I have read a few of his blogs he doesn't seem like the type of person I can relate to very much. The fact that he has faith is a good thing I think, it gives his otherwise seemingly pathetic life hope.

beanie42

Flint Bones wrote:

Personally I am not offended by the nickname but I understand why some people could be offended.

Exactly. The issue is "some people" will be offended. You may think they shouldn't be, but that doesn't change that they will be. "Should be" comes down to personal beliefs, and there's simply too many different ones to expect agreement (why debate if you know it won't make a difference).

Flint Bones wrote:

God doesn't like gambling in the first place. He says don't do it.

The Bible doesn't make any direct statements on gambling - can you provide a source? While it is generally considered immoral, that is usually due to interpretation of a variety of associated scriptures on financial stewardship, character, etc. . This is something I've looked into fairly deeply before deciding to play poker, so if I've missed something that glaring, I'd love to know...

mcksmith

beanie42 wrote:

The Bible doesn't make any direct statements on gambling - can you provide a source? While it is generally considered immoral, that is usually due to interpretation of a variety of associated scriptures on financial stewardship, character, etc. . This is something I've looked into fairly deeply before deciding to play poker, so if I've missed something that glaring, I'd love to know...

The Bible doesn't mention gambling specifically but unless I'm missing something the purpose of poker is to take money away from weaker opponents using deception. Doesn't sound very Christian to me. Not that I'm passing judgement since I'm going to hell in a handbasket myself.

TheBusDriver

ol-stone-face wrote:

... I used to like Negreanu but now that I have read  ... The fact that he has faith is a good thing I think, it gives his otherwise seemingly pathetic life hope.

Wow, where is the love. I think your suffering from classic hero worship withdrawl.

ScoobyD

but unless I'm missing something the purpose of poker is to take money away from weaker opponents using deception.

Deception? Tell me the last time anyone needed to use deception to beat a typical LPLLHE game... You could tell the person you were raising with aces, show them, and they'd still call with 92o...

ol-stone-face

TheBusDriver wrote:

Wow, where is the love. I think your suffering from classic hero worship withdrawl.

I'm not familiar with that theory. One of yours? I respect his poker playing abilities and get alot out of the poker content of his blogs. High stakes poker fascinates me. His dog Mushu, his drinking binges and the fact that his life sucks because his xbox doesn't work right now is not so interesting, but you need to get through that to get to some good poker content.

westside8

ol-stone-face wrote:

TheBusDriver wrote:

Wow, where is the love. I think your suffering from classic hero worship withdrawl.

I'm not familiar with that theory. One of yours? I respect his poker playing abilities and get alot out of the poker content of his blogs. High stakes poker fascinates me. His dog Mushu, his drinking binges and the fact that his life sucks because his xbox doesn't work right now is not so interesting, but you need to get through that to get to some good poker content.

He writes 2 bi-weekly columns for CardPlayer, 1 monthly column for Canadian Poker Player, countless articles for newspapers, he even stated in his blog in the past that you can't expect him to write about poker in his blog everytime. If you like to read poker content, go to CardPlayer online, CPP's online site to read his poker content, but understand poker players are human too, and if you do not want to read about his personal life on his blog, there are tons of options for you.

I'm actually glad to see him opening up a bit of his personal life to the public, where as all the celebrities (not just poker) are very private about their own personal life.

ol-stone-face

westside8 wrote:

He writes 2 bi-weekly columns for CardPlayer, 1 monthly column for Canadian Poker Player, countless articles for newspapers, he even stated in his blog in the past that you can't expect him to write about poker in his blog everytime. If you like to read poker content, go to CardPlayer online, CPP's online site to read his poker content, but understand poker players are human too, and if you do not want to read about his personal life on his blog, there are tons of options for you.

Agreed, and I have been sticking to the poker content ones for the most part. I will skim the other ones though because sometimes there is good stuff in those too. It's not all bad.

I'm actually glad to see him opening up a bit of his personal life to the public, where as all the celebrities (not just poker) are very private about their own personal life.

Cool. It takes guts to open your life online like that. Just not my bag I guess.

mcksmith

ScoobyD wrote:

but unless I'm missing something the purpose of poker is to take money away from weaker opponents using deception.

Deception? Tell me the last time anyone needed to use deception to beat a typical LPLLHE game... You could tell the person you were raising with aces, show them, and they'd still call with 92o...

True enough. And I, like you, will gladly take the sucker's money. I still feel like I'm taking advantage of them. Not that I have any compunction about it though.

beanie42

mcksmith wrote:

The Bible doesn't mention gambling specifically but unless I'm missing something the purpose of poker is to take money away from weaker opponents using deception.

Often weaker, but in my case, often against equally or more skilled players. However, in many other games you are looking to "deceive" your opponent (chess, football, etc.). I do not believe the game of poker is inherently evil anymore than other games, it is the attachment of money (and addiction) that is the problem. That said, the object of the addiction is not necessarily the evil IMHO, it is the addiction itself that is the problem (you can be addicted to poker and chocolate ice cream).

ScoobyD

Not that I have any compunction about it though.

Nice, I had to look that one up. Guess that's the "I learned something today". NH.

SkittlePoker

Hold up a sec. You are all missing something here. The core reason to what makes Daniel whacky, in my opinion.

The boy eats vegetables and nothing but.

To quote someone from my team, "Vegetables is what food eats".

As for CF using the name "Jesus", so what. Based on the popular imagery, he looks like he could be a Jesus.

Lighten up, eat meat, get along.

~SP

pkrfce9

Lighten up, eat meat, get along.

It's my new signature!

beanie42

mcksmith wrote:

Doesn't sound very Christian to me.

Poker is a difficult decision/topic for many Christian's, and not all Christian's feel the same way.  As I mentioned, it was a difficult decision for me and a lot of thought went into it.  However, since this thread is about Daniel Negreanu and religion, I got Daniel's permission to post an email he sent me. 

For background, my question to him was:

You are a professed Christian and prominent poker player.  As a Christian, I have thought long and hard about this paradox, and studied scripture and opinions related to it.  I would be very interested in your reasoning and basis for your decision.

Daniel's response was:

Hi Trevor,

I've been asked this question so many times in private e-mails that I think it's about time I address it. I often have people ask me how I justify what I do and maintain my beliefs.

Well,as another poster pointed out there is nothing in the Bible says that anything about gambling being a sin. Personally I think anything you do that becomes an obsession can be sinful- eating too much, drinking too much, becoming obsessed with money, etc.

As long as poker doesn't interfere with your relationship with God I don't see a problem with it. If you put gambling before God that would be a problem. If gambling is destroying your family, I see that as a problem

I often get the argument that what I do isn't Godly, I.e. taking other peoples money. What endeavor or business would this not be true? You open a restaurant, that's a gamble. You get married, that's a gamble. You invest in the stock market, well we all know that's a gamble!

I make my living by being better than my opponents at a game. Shaquille O'Neal does the same thing. He makes millions of dollars because he is better than has opponents. Does he take money from people directly? Not exactly, but indirectly he does. He's the best player on his team and makes more money than they do. If other teammates improve their play they'll make more money.

There are a million similar apologies you could use. Get a promotion at a company because you work harder than other employees. .. etc.

It's not sinful to be rich. In fact in the Bible it states that some will have more than others. It's sinful to obsesses about money and make it your God... I don't think I do that.

Having said all that I do feel a moral obligation to use the gift I was given in a positive way. Whether it be to make a difference in someone's life or to aid those less fortunate.

God Bless,
Daniel Negreanu
www.fullcontactpoker.com

mcksmith

I apologize Trevor. I didn't realize until just now that my wording was pretty harsh and probably offensive. As a non-practicing, formerly devout Christian I, personally, would have to give up poker if I ever made things right with God but that's simply because of my take on poker and religious theology. It's definitely a personal decision and obviously one you have given much thought and it was wrong for me to attack it. (Although it wasn't my intention - hence the 'hell in a handbasket' reference to myself).

beanie42

mcksmith wrote:

I apologize Trevor.  I didn't realize until just now that my wording was pretty harsh and probably offensive.

No offense taken and your comment about "deception" is very valid (since after "gambling", that's usually the next reason thought of). To be honest, while there is lots of disagreement between posters in this thread, I think it has been very civil and non-offensive (other than the OP). Pretty impressive considering the topic.

BBC Z

YAWN