How to play A-K in a no-limit tournament
Something that MiamiKeith said in the "Ask Dave" section has really focussed me on A-K in no limit hold'em tournaments.
I have been giving A-K A LOT of thought since the WSOP. I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this difficult and yet powerful hand. I am still crafting my own but siffice to say that I think I have had a major epiphany about A-K.
And yes... MiamiKeith is leading the "free hat derby."
On a side note (possibly somewhat related, if she DID have AK) I have been noticing that every time someone is talking about a tournament, and they talk about a hand that they misplayed, or a hand that really cost them, it seems that more often than not it is AK. I noticed this in your "final day" post too. All 3 hands that you said you regretted in that 36 hour period were AK. Personally, I hate this hand in no limit. I never have a clue what to do with it. It seems like, either I'm winning a couple of chips, or blowing off a significant portion of my stack. Seriously, how are you supposed to play this hand? I am starting to think that it's overrated.
I have been giving A-K A LOT of thought since the WSOP. I am interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this difficult and yet powerful hand. I am still crafting my own but siffice to say that I think I have had a major epiphany about A-K.
And yes... MiamiKeith is leading the "free hat derby."
Comments
Here's the hand:
I have AdKd UTG. Blinds 150/300 and I have maybe 2500. The table is full, with all manner of stack sizes, and mine is below average, but still OK. I make it 600 and get two callers, one MP and the BB.
Flop comes 633, no diamonds. Ugh. BB checks, and now it's decision time. I raised small preflop for just this reason... there is a decision left for me to make. I checked as well, as did MP.
Turn was a 4 or something, and BB bet at least 600. Me and MP folded.
At first, I hated the way I played that hand. I'm practically begging someone to steal the pot from me. Upon further reflection, I like the mini-raise, and the check-fold, especially from UTG.
AK is a hand that I try to invest few chips into preflop now, especially if I have bad position, or if I have a 'medium' stack. As a shortstack, I'll push, and as a big stack, I'll use it to push people around. These are very general statements, but I think my bottom line is that I don't like AK nearly as much as I used to when I started playing NL hold'em. If I'm looking for a coin-flip, I like it, but otherwise, if I miss the flop and I have a reason to believe I might be beat, I'm outta there.
Regards,
all_aces
I have found myself at all ends of the spectrum with this hand, but mostly, I think I play this hand horribly post flop. Either I'm wasting a bunch of chips trying to bluff at a missed flop, or I get no action from a hit. I find that I very rarely get any action from the people I out kick (like AQ). I probably run into another AK more than I do AQ (lots of split pots with this hand).
Maybe it's because it's such an easy hand to put someone on? Since you would play this from any position, and since it's a drawing hand, maybe it's not normally a hand you would slow play pre-flop like you might with high pocket pairs, and it's always something you would auto-bet the flop with? not sure...
It's definately a hard hand to get away from (pre or post flop), and maybe that's why I have such a hard time with it.
I'll raise pre-flop and see if I hit something on the flop. Even if I don't, I'll be the first raiser post-flop, but if I get re-raised, I'm out of there.
Another related question:
How do you play AK when:
1. 5+ handed
2. 3-4 handed
3. heads-up
To answer my own question; I tend to play AK the same way in all 3 situations. I should probably play it stronger as less ppl are involved, but I can't bring myself to do it.
Cheers
Jim
This is funny - I just posted about this hand in another thread earlier. I am also a guy who is ALWAYS SECOND GUESSING how to play this hand - since it always seems to cripple me at the worst possible time.
AK is an easy hand to play in the early stages of a No Limit event. I will always make a nice raise, and wait to see what kind of action I get.
Yet I am flummoxed by it in the end game though - when your pre-flop decisions can and will dictate everything.
When you don't push pre-flop, you risk another comer taking down the pot, on a hand that they probably would have folded with a big raise.
Bottom line, I think - as is always the case in Poker - that hitting the flop is the best possible strategy
That being said - I'll still take AK any day of the week...
The problem is that, playing against sane opponents, even if you hit the flop and make top pair top kicker, you are unlikely to get much action from a worse hand. Hence the whole, "either win a few chips, or lose your entire stack" dilemma.
Of course, if your opponents are the sort of players who think that K9 is good enough to call for their whole stack when the flop is K62, then AK is much, much more valuable. But if your opponents have a clue, it is a lot harder to play post-flop.
Keith
Not to rush you but... are you done crafting yet? I am waiting here... right now my strategy includes limping with AKs and folding AKo preflop in NL cash games against tough opponents. This might seem overly tight (ok, it is overly tight) but I am reminded of something that Roy Cooke said... "When you are unsure of a situation, don’t make plays that may put you in a position of having to make a tough decision. Inevitably, some of those tough decisions will be errors, and many of them will be big-volume errors." (Link: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=12953) Yes, he was talking about limit poker, but this has to be 100x as true in no limit, where "high volume" goes from being a few bets to your entire stack.
Sweet. I didn't even know about the free hat derby. But, let me assure you, free stuff is my favourite kind of stuff. ;-) So, how does this work exactly? What's the hat for? The best question? Most thought-provoking? Is it a "stump Dave Scharf" contest?
Keith
Here's the thread where Dave describes the free hat thing:
http://pokerforum.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=527
ScottyZ
I have had several thoughts on this strong, yet troublesome hand.
(1) If the chips counts are deep there are precious few ways to win a big pot against skilled opponents. Post-flop you will either get no action or you will be beaten and have a hard time folding. For instance, in the following hand from my WSOP journal: “Dan Harrington raises UTG. The tight aggressive player that laid down A-Q earlier re-raises. I am the button with A-K. I give it some thought. I even thought I picked off the shaking hand tell from TA player. Yet, I called. In retrospect, there is NO flop that I could have felt really comfortable with in that spot and I should have saved the $30K and folded. I do get really lucky though. Dan Harrington re-raises all-in. The TA player re-re-re-raises all in. Now I fold. Harrington J-J. TA player A-A. Whew. Harrington wins with a flush.â€
If Harrington had flat called I would have been in a world of hurt. The flop came king high and I probably would not have got away from the hand. In other words, there was no way to win a big pot because a lot of the hand was played post flop.
(2) If there is much action pre-flop A-K is a big problem. What hands are in there mucking around? Sure, A-x is possible but against a lot of heat these hands will generally bow out (the exception being A-Q). All of the other hands that one is likely to be up against (pairs) are the favorite. Furthermore, if you hit the flop your hits are in the open and that will end the action. You have “reverse implied†odds – you can lose a lot or win a little. This is not the case in limit hold’em since your enemy can’t take that much off you AND because he is much more likely to pay you off with a worse hand.
So… what good is A-K? The big benefit to A-K is that although it is rarely very far ahead, it also only very rarely very far behind (A-A or K-K being the only two hands that dominate A-K). So, to me, the power of A-K is the power of the semi-bluff. A LOT of hands that people will raise with pre-flop will lay down to a re-raise. Of those that call you aren’t really in very bad shape. In other words, A-K is made for a no-limit semi-bluff. In the WSOP hand in which I called A-K against 5-5 post flop I played HORRIBLY because I gave my semi-bluffing hand NO FOLD EQUITY. I knew he was going to move on the pot. I knew it. But, if I beat him to it, he can’t call. If he does I have outs.
So… long and short of it is that A-K is a hand that should, I think, be played very aggressively. You do not need much FOLD EQUITY for the play to be very profitable. You are hoping for you opponent to fold. If he doesn’t then you are hoping to get a lucky flop. Just that same as you are with a hand like 7-6s except that there are A LOT less hands that A-K is in trouble against. It’s my new no-limit hold’em tournament mantra “If I have A-K I am bluffing… If I have A-K I am bluffing… If I have A-K I am bluffing…â€
Sklansky gives similar advice in his tournament book (there is a section entitled "Ace-King in no limit play"). The basic idea of it is, you are rarely in serious trouble if you get all-in before the flop with AK, and it is better to be the bettor than the caller.
But, if the chip counts are deep, and you don't get all in preflop, it seems that you are in trouble even if you are being aggressive. For example:
Say the blinds are 100-200. You are on the button with 50k chips, and AhKd. It folds around to the cutoff, who also has 50k chips. He makes it 1000 to go. Now, what can you do?
Pushing all-in is too much. Risking your whole stack to win 1300 chips... you are only getting called by a hand that beats you (AA or maybe KK)
Say you make a "normal" raise to, say, 4000 or 5000. The blinds fold and the raiser calls. Flop is Kc Jc 8s. The raiser makes a pot-sized 10,000 chip bet at you. How good do you feel? He could easily have you beat (KJ, JJ, 88, even AA if he is the type of player to call your re-raise with it and try to trap you). He could be semi-bluffing (eg QT, Ac8c, Qc8c). It could even be a complete bluff, hoping you have a hand like QQ that you could lay down. If you play back at him you are in the uncomfortable situation of only being called if you are a small favourite or a big underdog. Do you really want to put your whole stack in jeopardy with just one pair on this flop?
If you make a bigger re-raise pre-flop, it seems like you are putting yourself in even more trouble. Say you make it 10k to go. Again the blinds fold and the raiser calls. Now, having already put 20% of your stack in, are you going to be able to get away from the hand on a Kc Jc 8s flop when the raiser bets 20k into you?
My main problem with AK is that if you hit the flop (which is what you want, right?) you are going to have to make difficult decisions. You are essentially setting yourself up to have to make a tough decision for a large portion of your stack, if not the whole thing. Getting all-in with it pre-flop eliminates this, but this is not always possible. I would like to see a whole book entitled "How to play AK when you hit the flop in NL Hold'em".
Keith
Sklasnky's Tournament Poker for Advnaced Players is THE book. He's the man.
ScottyZ
Too bad he can't pick games against the spread, like he can play poker...
I just got his book a couple of weeks ago and have read it twice already. I'm going to read and study it once or twice more before that Brantford Hold Em tourney in three weeks. It's a great tournament book if I didn't make that point clear yet. 8)
If Fiedler doesn't win that starting job I am getting off the Wannstedt bandwagon.
Umm... Do I know you? Who are you? That AK is sounding familiar.. from the pick 4 pool???
Keith
So, what are you waiting for? AAK or QJT? I mean, if you're going to take that route, at least wait for a hand like 98 so you have a better shot at that straight.
Keith
Amazon.ca
I have gained unbelievable knowledge about A-K play from this thread. Thank you to everyone.
These two quotes are actually a nice demonstration of the ambiguity involved in playing AK.
----
Great flop = AAK
You may get no action.
Good flop = K73 rainbow
You may get no action.
Mediocre-to-bad flop = KJ8 with 2 clubs
There are a lot of valid threats. You may or may not be winning right now. You may or may not get drawn out on and/or semi-bluffed. A scare card may or may not come off on the turn.
My original point was maybe this particular flop is a lot different than many of the other King high flops. It's got a 2 flush. It's got high card strength (i.e. connecting with JJ). It's got lots of scare cards that can come off, which may put you in a pickle against a tricky player.
All King high flops are not created equal.
ScottyZ
LOL
ummm stuped question BUT is there a miami in Canada? :?: :shock: :?:
This is my point. Even the flop that you were waiting for isn't all that good. Although you are winning most of the time if an A or K hits, you are only getting significant action if you are losing. Compare to a hand like 55, where if you hit the flop, there are lots of worse hands that will give you action.
Keith
The problem isn't that you may get no action. The problem is that if you DO get action you are probably losing.
Keith
are pre-flop, right?
This part of my game needs a little work. 8)
Plus, if I really was good at that, I sure don't think I'd have to wait around for hands as good as AK.
ScottyZ
I would have a lot more confidence trying to pick off an agressive player's bluff with a K73 rainbow flop, compared to a KJ8 two-suited flop.
You may get action from an agressive bluffer on any King high flop. It might matter whether the bluffer is likely to have any outs and/or potential scare cards.
You don't just get action from made hands.
ScottyZ