Ante Structure? Yea or Nah?
Topic for further discussion...
To make the game abit quicker, should we consider adding an ante to the 4th, 5th, or 6th level blinds?
It was almost 11:30 before the game ended last night, and some of us MUST work on Fridays in REAL jobs. By implementing an ante, it should allow us to speed up the game abit. This will mean re organizing the blind structure a tad as well.
OR
We can make it a 8:00pm start, however a couple of guys originally requested to move to 8:30 due to work hours on Thursdays.
To make the game abit quicker, should we consider adding an ante to the 4th, 5th, or 6th level blinds?
It was almost 11:30 before the game ended last night, and some of us MUST work on Fridays in REAL jobs. By implementing an ante, it should allow us to speed up the game abit. This will mean re organizing the blind structure a tad as well.
OR
We can make it a 8:00pm start, however a couple of guys originally requested to move to 8:30 due to work hours on Thursdays.
Comments
Antes are messy.. Do it if you have a large field, but for a smaller group like yours (1 or 2 tables) I think you can get away with slightly more aggressive blinds to accomplish what you want to do.
Check out homepokertourney.com for some basic formulae on how to set up a blind schedule so that your tournament finishes within a certain time frame.
hork.
1) We all figured it would end around 11-11:30 anyways correct? So why would we agree to start at 8:30 and then change it back to 8pm? (me being one of the people, who gets off work at 8pm, and got there when I did)
2) I think an ante could help, but not as high as 50...I think 10 is fine..
3) Me wanting to be one of the committed players who wants to show up every week if possible, I DO mind being blinded out all those times...I appologize I cant make it for 8pm...but if everyone agrees to start 8pm, and I'm gonna get blinded out every time until I arrive, somewhere down the line I'm gonna lose a chance at winning a big hand...
4) If we go back to the 8pm start time, sorry to say but I'm out, cause I dont want to get blinded out like that...
Just my opinion in the matter
- Jason
I would say if we have any players that are committed to play but will drop out (be hinder) if the time changes then we keep the time to what it currently is.
I encourage the use of antes at the higher levels to encourage more action and ensure the game will finish up in 3 hours or less. The antes will be most significant at a full final table to encourage action, not as much when you get down to 2 or 3 players.
Game time will be 8:30pm. As Jason mentioned, we all agreed to this at the beginning to accommadate those that work till 8, and he did arrive by 8:15 last week. I say we start the game as soon as everyone arrives who registered (or who has called ahead to say they will be late).
Once everyone is there, game starts, or 8:30, whichever comes first.
I agree with Hork.
Here are my thoughts:
According to at least one player that was still in the game, at the 4th level it became more bingo and less of a poker game.
The game started at 8:30 and finished by 11:30. 3 hours to finish a 14 player tourney is not quick enough??
Sure I know it is a school night and most of us have to work the next morning but I don't think we need to make the blinds more aggressive. I think players will quickly lose interest in coming out to a weekly crap shoot. At least I know I would.
The only way to finish this game earlier and still make it about poker is to start it earlier IMO. Yes I know we will lose a player or two but I think we will also lose at least that many by turning this into a bingo league.
The 8:30 time does in fact work better for me, but I also don't mind sacrificing some rest to play/win poker.
Most of the players will have left before the finish time anyway. Unfortunately AJ will be there till the finish regardless of whether or not he busts out early. Look at me, I was home at 10pm
I know the blinds started at,
10/20
20/40
and I think 30/60 but after that am not sure. Can someone post them pls?
(I hope this post does not come off as harsh, that is not my intention.)
I dunno. Zithal is the expert on this stuff.
AJ said the game will start at 8:30, if everyone shows up just before that we start...I think that sounds good...cuz I managed to get there for 8:15...(luckily there was no traffic) so if everyone is there, we get seating done and what not...then 8:20 start looks to be the earliest? 20 minutes are the blind schedules correct? why not move it to 15 minutes? save some time there as well...I played on poker stars tourney's before and they do every 15 if I'm not mistaken....
So the blinds were like this?
1. 10/20
2. 20/40
3. 30/60
4. 50/100
5. 100/200...
If so, I feel that is aggressive enough. Perhaps we make level 3 40/80 then? This way it will will get the action started earlier.
Sounds good to me.
What if we eliminate the break or reduce it to only 5 minutes to keeps things moving quickly?
Yes but online you are getting at least 3 times (I think) more hands dealt per hour. Dem computers are fast.
Having said that 15 minutes may not be a bad idea. I say we leave that till after we try out next weeks game.
5 minute breaks seems good to let people go to the washroom or have a smoke...
10-20
20-40
30-60
40-80
50-100
100-200
150-300
200-400
250-500
If my math is as good as it used to be, that adds up to a total of 3hrs+ to play. I don't mind being open that late every week, I knew what I was getting myself into when we started, I just want to make it worth everyone's while to play regularily enough to keep it running smoothly. Nothing is set in stone yet, so any recommendations for improvement in ANY area will be seriously taken into consideration.
AJ
I seem to be the ONLY smoker anyway, and I don't mind shortening the break to 7 mins (which, btw, is the amount of time necessary to smoke a standard length cigarette, trust me on this, I have timed it numerously), and then get back to playing. We can even abandon the colour up if necessary, but it would mean a mess of lower value chips on the final 4 or 5 players. Just like Q10o...looks good, but not worth anything.
As far as reducing the blinds from 20 to 15, not too fond of that one myself either. Online you play a much faster game, and get alot more chances in 15 min. Just seems like the blinds would be increasing way too fast and make it even more of a bingo in levels 4,5, & 6.
As always, my ONLY goal is to make this league work for us all. Any and all thoughts for improvement will be seriously considered.
You're trying to predict the length of a tournament after 1 try. Are you sure this is going to happen every week?
You could set a "drop dead" time... 11pm and just finish the thing based on chip count. ?
just suggestions...
We have a second deck on each table ready to go so we are actually getting a lot of hands per hour.
The chip ups can be done in the background by anyone who has busted out. Maybe forget the chip races and just round up.
At the risk of repeating myself (again...) the jump from 50/100 to 100/200 is the one area I think we need to look at. It is too steep.
AJ, maybe you need to move off the King-size smokes? Regular-size without wasting time for breathing you should be down to 5 mins.
LOL, they ARE regular cigs.
Yet another good reason to quit the goddamn things...speed up the game!
How about removing the 30/60 blind and putting in a 75/150?
Dude, your blind structure / chip denominations do not allow for a 75 blind.
No matter how you slice it, you will have a tough time finding a balance between playing poker and finishing under 3 hours.
It will only become more difficult if you have more than 14 players come out to your games..
I'm sure we can make this work. If it doesn't fit a 3 hr time window, so be it. For the size of the pot, the hourly $ rate is still damn nice to keep it going until it gets done, right? If there is an idea on how we can ease the 50/100 100/200 step, I'm all ears.
...I guess I should have said that a long time ago eh?
You have 14 players with 1,000 chips each, putting a total of 14,000 on the table. I usually find games end when there are 20 BB's left on the table. 30BB is the game is loose or aggressive, or 10BB's if the tournament is tight. So, I'd guess that you're tourney went to the 250-500 level.
For 14 players, you probably don't need to throw in ante. I felt I needed it once I moved from 24 to 32 players.
And the sad reality is that the players will always complain that the blinds are too high and everything seems to end in a crapshoot. This will be especially true in a game that you're trying to complete in 3.5 hours. Not taking breaks into account, that means you're aiming for about 10 levels.
The best thing you can do it tweak the schedule each tournament to find somethind that the players like. From what I see you have two options; start sooner and add a couple extra levels (5-10 and 75-150 seem like two easy candiates, or flatten the earlier levels and raises faster later. For example, if you want to keep the same starting time, here's an alternate suggestion... (I'm putting your last blinds in brackets for comparison...)
1. 5-10 [10-20]
2. 10-20 [20-40]
3. 15-30 [30-60]
4. 20-40 [40-80]
5. 30-60 [50-100]
6. 50-100 [100-200]
7. 75-150 [150-300]
8. 100-200 [200-400]
9. 200-400 [250-500]
10. 300-600 [300-600?] **expected end of game**
11. 500-1000 [?] (The widow maker round)
In this schedule, we've kept the same number of rounds, but have reduced the BB by 50% in almost every level AND we're still finishing in almost the same spot. If you go with this, blinds will still end up as a crap shoot (they always do), but good, aggressive players, will have more play in the earlier rounds to put them in a better position for the end game.
If you decide to start at 8pm, that only really gives you 1 to 1.5 more levels so add in a 10-15 level.
If you can get people to agree to start at 7:30 you get three more levels. Add in 10-15, 25-50 and 40-80
Good luck and let me know how it goes if you choose to use it!
Thanks, Rob!
Again, I'm not really worried about when this ends, I'm trying to find something everyone can agree to and live with. I urge all league members to review Zithal's recommendations and comment. If we all agree to it, then we can make it the structure at either this week's or next week's game.
Again, Zithal, thanks for everything.
AJ
AJ, you'll need to look at the chips required to support this.
10 white @ 5 value 50 total
14 red @ 25 value 350 total
6 blue @ 100 value 600 total
30 chips equal to 1000 value
With my current chip stash, this works out fine for 14 players. As more members join in, I will invest in more chips at that time, or whenever I can out to get them. Also, we may want to still include the colour up at the 6th level to get the lower value chips off and replace with 500 value chips as required.
If everyone agrees to this new blind structure and chip value, we will use it this coming Thursday night. I will send out a News Notice from the Home Poker Club site to everyone. If I don't hear any rejections to this, I will assume everyone agrees to it.
Thanks to Hork, Zithal, Pkrfce9, and esool (see? I CAN spell it right!
AJ