Perhaps not, but you were rejoicing at the PC defeat, and the Public Sector cuts was one of your reasons for doing so. Just saying that Wynne will be making those self same cuts (or worse) in the next year or so.
Perhaps not, but you were rejoicing at the PC defeat, and the Public Sector cuts was one of your reasons for doing so. Just saying that Wynne will be making those self same cuts (or worse) in the next year or so.
that's why i also said i was upset that liberals got majority. sometimes i wonder if you even read other people's posts milo.
the only reason i could think to not do this is it could be a lot easier to cheat elections (not that us canadians would ever do anything like that).
I suspect that is part of it, but I bet I could have given my brother my license and voter card this year and he could have voted in my place. We don't look too similar, but they barely glanced at my license/picture. There must be a way to handle online authentication and prevent fraud.
Electronic voting, including anything connected to the internet, is a lot easier to hack and cheat than paper ballots. Just need to look at what happened in US with their voting machines. All it takes is a little snippet of code and votes are going wherever you want them to go.
Also, regarding voting from phones etc....nothing wrong with keeping just a 'little' effort required to vote. If all of the lowlifes and scumbags (no not everyone who doesn't vote is one of these but bear with me) who don't vote were able to effortlessly push a button on their phone they have their face buried in 24-7, you want to talk about disturbing election results? Nah, I think the idea of having to put in just a tiny bit of effort to have your vote counted is a good idea. When even more mental midgets are effortlessly able to influence the direction a country moves it would be disastrous....
so happy PCs didn't win! tens of thousands of teachers (including myself and my gf) get to keep their jobs!
not very happy liberals have a majority though.
seriously, what is wrong with everyone? how can you not see that a left leaning government tries to help all people, rich or poor, while the more right you go the more the rich benefit. it's not rocket surgery here. (sorry milo. please feel free to tell me how wrong i am in this regard.)
LOL....I won't get too involved in this thread. But here it is in a nutshell. Government and public servants, teachers, police etc all run on tax payers money. Teachers pay taxes, but those taxes are just giving back into the tax pool a percentage of what was used to pay their salaries in the first place. The liberals policies have driven industry and jobs out of Ontario. Without OTHER jobs (non government, non teacher, non mr. policeman etc) there is no tax base. As the Liberals alienate more big businesses and other corporations etc by being forced to decrease incentives and increase their taxes , in order to pay the ever bloated public sector, there will be even fewer jobs to support the needed tax base to pay the tax funded public sector. Be clear, teachers, police etc contribute a net nothing to the tax base, because the taxes they pay in is already tax payers money that was used to pay them in the first place. .
Despite my rambling, it's quite simple. The money has to come from somewhere. Teachers, police, firemen all getting raises every contract while the private sector takes status quo or cuts doesn't work forever. In a perfect world everyone could just work for the government and get 2-3% raises yearly....until we all make $200,000 a year in 20 years, but in reality you need real jobs that pay real taxes (not recycled taxes) in order to support such a ridiculous idea.
There....broken....confusing rant over.
LOL....I won't get too involved in this thread. But here it is in a nutshell. Government and public servants, teachers, police etc all run on tax payers money. Teachers pay taxes, but those taxes are just giving back into the tax pool a percentage of what was used to pay their salaries in the first place. The liberals policies have driven industry and jobs out of Ontario. Without OTHER jobs (non government, non teacher, non mr. policeman etc) there is no tax base. As the Liberals alienate more big businesses and other corporations etc by being forced to decrease incentives and increase their taxes , in order to pay the ever bloated public sector, there will be even fewer jobs to support the needed tax base to pay the tax funded public sector. Be clear, teachers, police etc contribute a net nothing to the tax base, because the taxes they pay in is already tax payers money that was used to pay them in the first place. .
Despite my rambling, it's quite simple. The money has to come from somewhere. Teachers, police, firemen all getting raises every contract while the private sector takes status quo or cuts doesn't work forever. In a perfect world everyone could just work for the government and get 2-3% raises yearly....until we all make $200,000 a year in 20 years, but in reality you need real jobs that pay real taxes (not recycled taxes) in order to support such a ridiculous idea.
There....broken....confusing rant over.
Well, you have to rant, now and then.
Remember, the world is not perfect, and politicians can't make it so.
Unique individuals may. But, the question is. Where do we find these individuals,
and if we did, would we recognize them ?
LOL....I won't get too involved in this thread. But here it is in a nutshell. Government and public servants, teachers, police etc all run on tax payers money. Teachers pay taxes, but those taxes are just giving back into the tax pool a percentage of what was used to pay their salaries in the first place. The liberals policies have driven industry and jobs out of Ontario. Without OTHER jobs (non government, non teacher, non mr. policeman etc) there is no tax base. As the Liberals alienate more big businesses and other corporations etc by being forced to decrease incentives and increase their taxes , in order to pay the ever bloated public sector, there will be even fewer jobs to support the needed tax base to pay the tax funded public sector. Be clear, teachers, police etc contribute a net nothing to the tax base, because the taxes they pay in is already tax payers money that was used to pay them in the first place. .
Despite my rambling, it's quite simple. The money has to come from somewhere. Teachers, police, firemen all getting raises every contract while the private sector takes status quo or cuts doesn't work forever. In a perfect world everyone could just work for the government and get 2-3% raises yearly....until we all make $200,000 a year in 20 years, but in reality you need real jobs that pay real taxes (not recycled taxes) in order to support such a ridiculous idea.
There....broken....confusing rant over.
even as a teacher, i agree that teachers at max level and years make too much money. it's also compounded by the fact that they don't have to retire and can hang on making tons of cash even when they can happily retire with full awesome pensions. this is an issue currently and many new teachers can't find jobs because of it.
that being said, yeah paying taxes that go towards our education system...sounds terrible (note the sarcasm).
I think Ned is talking strictly from the following angle . . .
Teacher gets 100k from the total pool of tax dollars in the Provincial "wallet", while sending back only a small percentage of that 100k in the form of taxes (lets call it 35k). So the teacher is draining 65k from the Provincial "wallet" that needs to be provided by Joe Lunchbucket. If there are not enough Joes to make up that shortfall, while keeping their OWN heads above water, the Province is fooked.
It's not strictly an accurate description, but it makes a valid point about the dangers of a bloated Public Sector. And wages are not nearly as big a risk to the economic prosperity of this Province as the legacy costs for Teachers, Police and Fire Departments, to say nothing of the broader Public Service.
I think Ned is talking strictly from the following angle . . .
Teacher gets 100k from the total pool of tax dollars in the Provincial "wallet", while sending back only a small percentage of that 100k in the form of taxes (lets call it 35k). So the teacher is draining 65k from the Provincial "wallet" that needs to be provided by Joe Lunchbucket. If there are not enough Joes to make up that shortfall, while keeping their OWN heads above water, the Province is fooked.
It's not strictly an accurate description, but it makes a valid point about the dangers of a bloated Public Sector. And wages are not nearly as big a risk to the economic prosperity of this Province as the legacy costs for Teachers, Police and Fire Departments, to say nothing of the broader Public Service.
I would tend to agree with you Milo, if the teacher wasn't worth his weight in gold.
I've had many high school teachers that were only so so, but I think far more that
were inspirational and I would not consider these people a drain but rather a bonus.
Hopefully our system can retain these brave souls.
I look at the intangibles that this oversimplification ignores . . .
Good teachers lead to better educated citizens who create wealth and add to the tax revenues of the Government. It is too easy to look at the pluses and minuses on individuals.
The overall message that the Public sector needs to shrink, and it's drain on Provincial coffers needs to shrink in tandem IS valid, however.
One of the problems with Hudak's platform was in not spelling out EXACTLY where those cuts would be coming from . . .
someone like Trigs sees 100k jobs being cut from the payroll and he thinks (as does EVERY OTHER public sector worker) that it is HIS neck on the block, even though that is not likely the case.
someone like Trigs sees 100k jobs being cut from the payroll and he thinks (as does EVERY OTHER public sector worker) that it is HIS neck on the block, even though that is not likely the case.
pretty sure hudak specifically said that he was going to lay off teachers with 10 years or less experience. also, the school that i work for is not a normal school. the government doesn't technically support it per se. it's just open and run through my school board on the side and the board allows us to have a little money just so we can stay open and offer adult high school credits. if there were any cuts to education, my school would be one of the first to go. yes, i'd be upset for losing my job, but it would also be horrible to take this educational opportunity away from these troubled students who need it.
Missed my point . . . which was the Hudak did a TERRIBLE job of articulating where the cuts would come from, and who would and would NOT be affected. This allowed the various special interests that support the Liberals to make up whatever nonsense they wanted in order to use fear as a weapon to mobilize their base.
Missed my point . . . which was the Hudak did a TERRIBLE job of articulating where the cuts would come from, and who would and would NOT be affected. This allowed the various special interests that support the Liberals to make up whatever nonsense they wanted in order to use fear as a weapon to mobilize their base.
lol so it's the "crazy liberals" faults because hudak is too stupid to explain his platform promises.
milo, i concede this and all future disagreements with you. you, sir, are correct in all regards.
Again . . . and slowly . . . if you go and tell people you are cutting 100k jobs from the public sector, without any specifics, you allow the fear-mongering to fester.
If, instead, you explain that 70% (for example) will come through not hiring replacements for people who retire, and bring up SPECIFIC sectors to be eliminated (like ANYONE involved in administering Drive Clean) you have a MUCH better chance at controlling the message.
And OF COURSE it is not anyone else's fault but the PC's . . . how could it be otherwise?
Well, you would be wrong. Everyone just realized how terrible Hudak and the PCs would be. That's why everyone campaigned against them. Even the OPP, which we all know are normally joined at the hip with Conservatives. Not this time though.
Downloading her dirty work. When there is no new money, there will be strikes/layoffs/reduced service.
The dust isn't even settled yet and you're already whining. And on top of everything you're whining about things that the PCs promised they would do 10x worse.
10 x worse? Hyperbole is unbecoming. So, you're admitting that Wynne was less that upfront about her austerity measures? Great . . . that's progress at least.
The dust isn't even settled yet and you're already whining. And on top of everything you're whining about things that the PCs promised they would do 10x worse.
LOL
Not WHAT she's going to do, it's HOW she plans on doing it.
Side Note: I used to be a member of the public service and striking against an employer that makes $ whether you are on strike or not is a winning formula for the gov't. Once they save enough on salaries, they will give you a "raise"
Yup . . . not a huge fan of Sun Media. This is an update to his pre-election comments, which you'd know if you had read the link.
Once you have, please tell us all where the "self-serving bullshit" is in this article. Thomas is just laying out what he sees as an issue that confronts his membership. One that, maybe, the other Unions did not "see" in their desperate desire to thwart a PC victory.
10 x worse? Hyperbole is unbecoming. So, you're admitting that Wynne was less that upfront about her austerity measures? Great . . . that's progress at least.
"The Liberal budget is less draconian yet takes the province in the same direction. "
Since it was in the budget, I'd say she was very much up front about it.
Since it was in the budget, I'd say she was very much up front about it.
Yup, it was in her budget, but why do you think she refused to talk about those points DURING the campaign, or when she was ASKED about it during the debate?
Comments
Perhaps not, but you were rejoicing at the PC defeat, and the Public Sector cuts was one of your reasons for doing so. Just saying that Wynne will be making those self same cuts (or worse) in the next year or so.
that's why i also said i was upset that liberals got majority. sometimes i wonder if you even read other people's posts milo.
I suspect that is part of it, but I bet I could have given my brother my license and voter card this year and he could have voted in my place. We don't look too similar, but they barely glanced at my license/picture. There must be a way to handle online authentication and prevent fraud.
https://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty-voting-rights/unsettling-questions-about-voting-machines-ohio
LOL....I won't get too involved in this thread. But here it is in a nutshell. Government and public servants, teachers, police etc all run on tax payers money. Teachers pay taxes, but those taxes are just giving back into the tax pool a percentage of what was used to pay their salaries in the first place. The liberals policies have driven industry and jobs out of Ontario. Without OTHER jobs (non government, non teacher, non mr. policeman etc) there is no tax base. As the Liberals alienate more big businesses and other corporations etc by being forced to decrease incentives and increase their taxes , in order to pay the ever bloated public sector, there will be even fewer jobs to support the needed tax base to pay the tax funded public sector. Be clear, teachers, police etc contribute a net nothing to the tax base, because the taxes they pay in is already tax payers money that was used to pay them in the first place. .
Despite my rambling, it's quite simple. The money has to come from somewhere. Teachers, police, firemen all getting raises every contract while the private sector takes status quo or cuts doesn't work forever. In a perfect world everyone could just work for the government and get 2-3% raises yearly....until we all make $200,000 a year in 20 years, but in reality you need real jobs that pay real taxes (not recycled taxes) in order to support such a ridiculous idea.
There....broken....confusing rant over.
Remember, the world is not perfect, and politicians can't make it so.
Unique individuals may. But, the question is. Where do we find these individuals,
and if we did, would we recognize them ?
even as a teacher, i agree that teachers at max level and years make too much money. it's also compounded by the fact that they don't have to retire and can hang on making tons of cash even when they can happily retire with full awesome pensions. this is an issue currently and many new teachers can't find jobs because of it.
that being said, yeah paying taxes that go towards our education system...sounds terrible (note the sarcasm).
Teacher gets 100k from the total pool of tax dollars in the Provincial "wallet", while sending back only a small percentage of that 100k in the form of taxes (lets call it 35k). So the teacher is draining 65k from the Provincial "wallet" that needs to be provided by Joe Lunchbucket. If there are not enough Joes to make up that shortfall, while keeping their OWN heads above water, the Province is fooked.
It's not strictly an accurate description, but it makes a valid point about the dangers of a bloated Public Sector. And wages are not nearly as big a risk to the economic prosperity of this Province as the legacy costs for Teachers, Police and Fire Departments, to say nothing of the broader Public Service.
I've had many high school teachers that were only so so, but I think far more that
were inspirational and I would not consider these people a drain but rather a bonus.
Hopefully our system can retain these brave souls.
Good teachers lead to better educated citizens who create wealth and add to the tax revenues of the Government. It is too easy to look at the pluses and minuses on individuals.
The overall message that the Public sector needs to shrink, and it's drain on Provincial coffers needs to shrink in tandem IS valid, however.
One of the problems with Hudak's platform was in not spelling out EXACTLY where those cuts would be coming from . . .
someone like Trigs sees 100k jobs being cut from the payroll and he thinks (as does EVERY OTHER public sector worker) that it is HIS neck on the block, even though that is not likely the case.
pretty sure hudak specifically said that he was going to lay off teachers with 10 years or less experience. also, the school that i work for is not a normal school. the government doesn't technically support it per se. it's just open and run through my school board on the side and the board allows us to have a little money just so we can stay open and offer adult high school credits. if there were any cuts to education, my school would be one of the first to go. yes, i'd be upset for losing my job, but it would also be horrible to take this educational opportunity away from these troubled students who need it.
lol so it's the "crazy liberals" faults because hudak is too stupid to explain his platform promises.
milo, i concede this and all future disagreements with you. you, sir, are correct in all regards.
If, instead, you explain that 70% (for example) will come through not hiring replacements for people who retire, and bring up SPECIFIC sectors to be eliminated (like ANYONE involved in administering Drive Clean) you have a MUCH better chance at controlling the message.
And OF COURSE it is not anyone else's fault but the PC's . . . how could it be otherwise?
"Strong, stable, majority government." - Stephen Harper
Downloading her dirty work. When there is no new money, there will be strikes/layoffs/reduced service.
Third paragraph states that she has "no obligation to Big Business or Big Labour".
REALLY?!? Because I am pretty sure the folks behind the Working Families Coalition et al have some pretty high expectations from "their" Premier.
The dust isn't even settled yet and you're already whining. And on top of everything you're whining about things that the PCs promised they would do 10x worse.
LOL
Not WHAT she's going to do, it's HOW she plans on doing it.
Side Note: I used to be a member of the public service and striking against an employer that makes $ whether you are on strike or not is a winning formula for the gov't. Once they save enough on salaries, they will give you a "raise"
Ontario Public Service Employees Union says other unions so afraid of PCs they sold their souls to Liberals | National Post
Smokey Thomas, ladies and gents . . . a good Union man.
Your ability to gobble up these heaping helpings of self serving bullshit is truly admirable.
He first made this asinine statement about a week before the election by the way. You must have missed Sun News that day.
Once you have, please tell us all where the "self-serving bullshit" is in this article. Thomas is just laying out what he sees as an issue that confronts his membership. One that, maybe, the other Unions did not "see" in their desperate desire to thwart a PC victory.
I'll wait . . .
This confuses me also. Stop speaking liberal and actually say something with substance ^-^
"The Liberal budget is less draconian yet takes the province in the same direction. "
Since it was in the budget, I'd say she was very much up front about it.
Yup, it was in her budget, but why do you think she refused to talk about those points DURING the campaign, or when she was ASKED about it during the debate?
As I said, less than up front.