sorry, but you definitely seem like you're upset/frustrated. maybe that's not considered an 'attitude'. call it whatever you want. everyone who posted was just trying to help you.
So...when there were 20-30 players..and you had 70k...blinds were not at 1500/3000... The question is that "do you agree that 70k at the 1500/3000 level is not a lot??" It's a matter of understanding stack sizes..
I know exactly where you are at..lol...been there. Hell...still there in lots of spots...
Thanks. I think.:-[
I'm reluctant to post my last hand whne I busted out at the final table.
sorry, but you definitely seem like you're upset/frustrated. maybe that's not considered an 'attitude'. call it whatever you want. everyone who posted was just trying to help you.
I got said help. If/When same situation arises, I wont think "hey one time I called and won a nice pot in this situation. I'll likely remember this thread and auto-fold like I normally do, in that spot.
Thanks everybody.
I apoligize if I appear upset / frustrated / attitude.
Was there something not simple in the answers you got? No one is yet to answer the 20000 bet guy psuhes. Simple answers are fold or call.
Do you have a reason not to respect the advice given? I guess its the general attitude of critiquing around here, this line of questions is a good example.
Do you know your game closely enough to say that you rarely spew like this pre? YES
If so, why did you imply that we should call a super wide range pre here? I thought some may agree
Do you realise that the range you assigned villain is unrealistic? How many hands have you seen villian play? as many as me? not just that night
Do you understand the concept of reversed implied odds? enlighten me
Do you understand the major advantage of playing a pot in position and that you can't just "lead out flops you think he'll miss and take them down" profitably? YES
Do you understand that opening to 20k at the 6k level is a massive leak over time? Yes, but given the situation of the previous 10 hands played I thought it was appropiate.
just a few questions I'm curious about that arose from this thread
Edit: Do you agree that 70k at the 1500/3000 level is not a lot to work with? 70K was 10% of chips in play. with 20-30 players left to me that seems like a significant stack, what's the question?
The question about opening to 3.5 BBs from a 15 BB stack gets a lot trickier since no one ever opens 3,5x from that stack. If you expose 20k you have to call 70 to win 180 which means you have to win roughly a little less than 40% of the time so in a vacuum you'd have to fold but it's a spot you never want to put yourself in
My line of questions was to try to straighten up a very messy thread after you posted your blanked statement "omg, I should just post the obvious hands cause people don't agree with me when I don't"
As for the range you assigned villain you'd have to assume that he'd raise a different amount with his monsters, no such info was given in this thread and if you had such info your cards wouldn't matter cause villain is just a scrub you can rob as you please
I'm not gonna talk too much about reverse implied odds but basically it deals with that you always risk hitting a 2nd best hand, as in the case when he has a bigger spade draw here
How can the table flow affect when it's appropriate to open to 20k with a hand like AJo? with super strong meta considerations it might make sense with your top 5% of hands or a super wide range but this seems really in the middle
I'm not sure if some words fell out for my last question but it was about 23 bigs not being a big stack to work with. There's a chance you're playing shallow stacks wrong if you feel big sitting on 70k at the 1500/3k even in a turbo structure such as this seems to be if that was 10% of the chips in play. Another thing that may point to you playing short stacks wrong is that you busted holding a mere 5 BB's, unless you lost a big pot to drop to that it's almost always a mistake to get down that far and once you do, k4 is a dream hand to ship on the button
[/B]The question about opening to 3.5 BBs from a 15 BB stack gets a lot trickier since no one ever opens 3,5x from that stack. If you expose 20k you have to call 70 to win 180 which means you have to win roughly a little less than 40% of the time so in a vacuum you'd have to fold but it's a spot you never want to put yourself in no one ever? Well I did. THis is how you appear to give off attitude, grouping me in to donk.
My line of questions was to try to straighten up a very messy thread after you posted your blanked statement "omg, I should just post the obvious hands cause people don't agree with me when I don't" ok. I suppose you are table captian too? that is not my exact wording either
As for the range you assigned villain you'd have to assume that he'd raise a different amount with his monsters, no such info was given in this thread and if you had such info your cards wouldn't matter cause villain is just a scrub you can rob as you please Villain and I do have a history.
I'm not gonna talk too much about reverse implied odds but basically it deals with that you always risk hitting a 2nd best hand, as in the case when he has a bigger spade draw here
I have an understanding. I just wanted to make good use of your time to see how you answered, as I feel my time on this thread worth it
How can the table flow affect when it's appropriate to open to 20k with a hand like AJo? with super strong meta considerations it might make sense with your top 5% of hands or a super wide range but this seems really in the middle I wanted to take down the pot and that was the amount working. I also wanted to bet the most possible that I could get away from. I folded showing and he showed AQ. My remaining stack I was able to to use effectively to get to a cash.
I'm not sure if some words fell out for my last question but it was about 23 bigs not being a big stack to work with. There's a chance you're playing shallow stacks wrong if you feel big sitting on 70k at the 1500/3k even in a turbo structure such as this seems to be if that was 10% of the chips in play. Another thing that may point to you playing short stacks wrong is that you busted holding a mere 5 BB's, unless you lost a big pot to drop to that it's almost always a mistake to get down that far and once you do, k4 is a dream hand to ship on the button
Now your summing up that my game is wrong. Sorry if I get my back up. I could of pushed when BB with 85K holding 36o. or called of my stack holding J2s. K4s was the first optimal spot I had to ship.
The K4 suited is a standard ship. Vs the random hands in the blinds you are statistical favourite and will pick up 30%+ if the blinds fold. Ship it every time.
With the AJ raise to 20K at 3k-6k, I feel the raise is too big. I likely raise it up to 14k (we are just as likely to take it down with 14k as 20k and we save a BB) and fold to the shove. We are unlikely to be a head of villains entire range consisting of 77+, AJ+ and MAYBE any 2 face cards (KQ - which is only 60/40).
Now your summing up that my game is wrong. Sorry if I get my back up. I could of pushed when BB with 85K holding 36o. or called of my stack holding J2s. K4s was the first optimal spot I had to ship.
well if your game isnt suboptimal you're doing a good job disguising that, maybe it's a metagame thing for future forum tourneys
I tried to straighten this out and be helpful, but points in your logic are just flawed, it's not really a grey area in my eyes but hey, that's just my opinion
well if your game isnt suboptimal you're doing a good job disguising that, maybe it's a metagame thing for future forum tourneys
I tried to straighten this out and be helpful, but points in your logic are just flawed, it's not really a grey area in my eyes but hey, that's just my opinion
LOL Jacen if you cant get along with richard you are going to have a hard time here....
Pretty much everything people itt have told you, should be considered in my opinion. Some of the things you have said suggest you have a lot of learning to do (like we all did at one point).
No one is trying to put you down at all. Quite the opposite. But I can see how it doesn't appear that way from your perspective.
Your help is as useful as the dealer mucking your unprotected cards. Although one can learn something from that.
lets just agree to disagree, but your last useful post didn't really give justified answers to my questions, you just avoided the justify part and jumped straight to "I did have a read" which I still think you exaggerate
LOL Jacen if you cant get along with richard you are going to have a hard time here....
Pretty much everything people itt have told you, should be considered in my opinion. Some of the things you have said suggest you have a lot of learning to do (like we all did at one point).
No one is trying to put you down at all. Quite the opposite. But I can see how it doesn't appear that way from your perspective.
I'm fine with Richard. I guess some choice of words rubbed me the wrong way is all.
Like saying I have a lot to learn really sounds like you think you are more knowledgable then me, I might disagree with that. Sign up date to an account is not equivalent to knowledge.
lets just agree to disagree, but your last useful post didn't really give justified answers to my questions, you just avoided the justify part and jumped straight to "I did have a read" which I still think you exaggerate
do you really believe yourself when you state that the questions were meant to straighten the thread out. Its more believable that villain had 88.
No read is 100%, well one time I told my friend the villain had AA. certain (live) tells are bang on.
I'm looking for advice on calling in that situation given blinds and antes, with near minimum raise, with chip stack sizes. I lean towards calling with anything. I guess I'm wrong.
Bolded the part of importance.
Calling OOP with any two cards, and likely having to c/f the vast majority of the flops is -EV and is definitely a leak. I don't care how you spin it, you aren't going to win enough hands to make this +EV over the length of time.
In this instance, you called about 6% of your stack and put at risk 71% of your stack with what amounted to a stop and go. Had villain read through your range of hands and included any sort of draws, he should've shoved.
Had this been a cash game where both hero and villain are deeper, I can see a call here. But not in a 20minute blind level tourney with 23BB's and effective stacks of less than 17bb's.
do you really believe yourself when you state that the questions were meant to straighten the thread out. Its more believable that villain had 88.
No read is 100%, well one time I told my friend the villain had AA. certain (live) tells are bang on.
Well, why do you think I wrote those questions then? Another way to look at it is that there has been a lot of sound advice in this thread, I'm just one of the few with the patience to repeat what I said when I felt you're not really getting it or giving the justified answers I want to hear
Also, I'm sure you're not a 12 year old kid, you can handle me giving my opinion to you straight up. Just like I might change that opinion if you properly justify yours
I'm fine with Richard. I guess some choice of words rubbed me the wrong way is all.
Like saying I have a lot to learn really sounds like you think you are more knowledgable then me, I might disagree with that. Sign up date to an account is not equivalent to knowledge.
Disagree all you want. You won't see it if you are looking the other way though...
I'm fine with Richard. I guess some choice of words rubbed me the wrong way is all.
Like saying I have a lot to learn really sounds like you think you are more knowledgable then me, I might disagree with that. Sign up date to an account is not equivalent to knowledge.
Well, why do you think I wrote those questions then? Another way to look at it is that there has been a lot of sound advice in this thread, I'm just one of the few with the patience to repeat what I said when I felt you're not really getting it or giving the justified answers I want to hear
Also, I'm sure you're not a 12 year old kid, you can handle me giving my opinion to you straight up. Just like I might change that opinion if you properly justify yours
It felt like you were trying to put a newb in his place. To that I say what trigs said.
I'm not 12 no. Add some decades.
I guess ultimately I posted the hand as I knew it was wrong. But wanted to see if any saw the play with in reason. Then I started to defend the action as I got annoyed with the know it all posts. People can say whatever they want in regards to what their post were for or meant. Not just this thread there are 100's of posts critiquing hands that come off like from a pedestal. It is what it is. Forums of all kind will have that issue.
I think this forum actually is pretty tame when compared to other poker forums. I think as players we tend to think we are better than we actually are and hate when someone tears apart a hand.
It is even happened to me sometimes where I have posted a hand and every comment made me feel like I was playing poker for the first time.
Then again it also made me realize that people actually genuinely cared about my success and were giving me the truth without sugar coating it.
Remember people are here on a voluntary basis and a lot of players are very successful on this site, just takes a bit of getting used to but the info they give in however non-pc format they give it is only to make you the player asking the question successful.
I look at this forum like a poker boot camp sometimes, gotta break you down, to build you back up!
Comments
sorry, but you definitely seem like you're upset/frustrated. maybe that's not considered an 'attitude'. call it whatever you want. everyone who posted was just trying to help you.
Thanks. I think.:-[
I'm reluctant to post my last hand whne I busted out at the final table.
I got said help. If/When same situation arises, I wont think "hey one time I called and won a nice pot in this situation. I'll likely remember this thread and auto-fold like I normally do, in that spot.
Thanks everybody.
I apoligize if I appear upset / frustrated / attitude.
You don't learn if you don't post..
And posting spots like these does two things...it helps you learn and it helps me learn..lol That is what the strat forum is about..
5 players left. BB is leader. 300K.
SB 175K
I'm on the button 64K
blinds are 6000/12000 2000 ante
folded to me. K4s. I ship.
5th place
4000/8000 with a 2000 ante? wowza!
seems standard with that stack size.
Well I probably ship pretty wide there as well.. But just in case anyone I play with regularily is watching I always wait for A's in this spot..;)
I just looked it up. It was actually 6000/12000 2000a
5BBs. push. no question.
The question about opening to 3.5 BBs from a 15 BB stack gets a lot trickier since no one ever opens 3,5x from that stack. If you expose 20k you have to call 70 to win 180 which means you have to win roughly a little less than 40% of the time so in a vacuum you'd have to fold but it's a spot you never want to put yourself in
My line of questions was to try to straighten up a very messy thread after you posted your blanked statement "omg, I should just post the obvious hands cause people don't agree with me when I don't"
As for the range you assigned villain you'd have to assume that he'd raise a different amount with his monsters, no such info was given in this thread and if you had such info your cards wouldn't matter cause villain is just a scrub you can rob as you please
I'm not gonna talk too much about reverse implied odds but basically it deals with that you always risk hitting a 2nd best hand, as in the case when he has a bigger spade draw here
How can the table flow affect when it's appropriate to open to 20k with a hand like AJo? with super strong meta considerations it might make sense with your top 5% of hands or a super wide range but this seems really in the middle
I'm not sure if some words fell out for my last question but it was about 23 bigs not being a big stack to work with. There's a chance you're playing shallow stacks wrong if you feel big sitting on 70k at the 1500/3k even in a turbo structure such as this seems to be if that was 10% of the chips in play. Another thing that may point to you playing short stacks wrong is that you busted holding a mere 5 BB's, unless you lost a big pot to drop to that it's almost always a mistake to get down that far and once you do, k4 is a dream hand to ship on the button
I could of pushed when BB with 85K holding 36o. or called of my stack holding J2s. K4s was the first optimal spot I had to ship.
With the AJ raise to 20K at 3k-6k, I feel the raise is too big. I likely raise it up to 14k (we are just as likely to take it down with 14k as 20k and we save a BB) and fold to the shove. We are unlikely to be a head of villains entire range consisting of 77+, AJ+ and MAYBE any 2 face cards (KQ - which is only 60/40).
well if your game isnt suboptimal you're doing a good job disguising that, maybe it's a metagame thing for future forum tourneys
I tried to straighten this out and be helpful, but points in your logic are just flawed, it's not really a grey area in my eyes but hey, that's just my opinion
Are you always this successful in helping?
only with those who doesn't really want my help
Your help is as useful as the dealer mucking your unprotected cards. Although one can learn something from that.
Pretty much everything people itt have told you, should be considered in my opinion. Some of the things you have said suggest you have a lot of learning to do (like we all did at one point).
No one is trying to put you down at all. Quite the opposite. But I can see how it doesn't appear that way from your perspective.
lets just agree to disagree, but your last useful post didn't really give justified answers to my questions, you just avoided the justify part and jumped straight to "I did have a read" which I still think you exaggerate
Like saying I have a lot to learn really sounds like you think you are more knowledgable then me, I might disagree with that. Sign up date to an account is not equivalent to knowledge.
do you really believe yourself when you state that the questions were meant to straighten the thread out. Its more believable that villain had 88.
No read is 100%, well one time I told my friend the villain had AA. certain (live) tells are bang on.
Bolded the part of importance.
Calling OOP with any two cards, and likely having to c/f the vast majority of the flops is -EV and is definitely a leak. I don't care how you spin it, you aren't going to win enough hands to make this +EV over the length of time.
In this instance, you called about 6% of your stack and put at risk 71% of your stack with what amounted to a stop and go. Had villain read through your range of hands and included any sort of draws, he should've shoved.
Had this been a cash game where both hero and villain are deeper, I can see a call here. But not in a 20minute blind level tourney with 23BB's and effective stacks of less than 17bb's.
The other hands I have no issue with.
Well, why do you think I wrote those questions then? Another way to look at it is that there has been a lot of sound advice in this thread, I'm just one of the few with the patience to repeat what I said when I felt you're not really getting it or giving the justified answers I want to hear
Also, I'm sure you're not a 12 year old kid, you can handle me giving my opinion to you straight up. Just like I might change that opinion if you properly justify yours
Disagree all you want. You won't see it if you are looking the other way though...
LOL time to bring out the giraffes....
It felt like you were trying to put a newb in his place. To that I say what trigs said.
I'm not 12 no. Add some decades.
I guess ultimately I posted the hand as I knew it was wrong. But wanted to see if any saw the play with in reason. Then I started to defend the action as I got annoyed with the know it all posts. People can say whatever they want in regards to what their post were for or meant. Not just this thread there are 100's of posts critiquing hands that come off like from a pedestal. It is what it is. Forums of all kind will have that issue.
It is even happened to me sometimes where I have posted a hand and every comment made me feel like I was playing poker for the first time.
Then again it also made me realize that people actually genuinely cared about my success and were giving me the truth without sugar coating it.
Remember people are here on a voluntary basis and a lot of players are very successful on this site, just takes a bit of getting used to but the info they give in however non-pc format they give it is only to make you the player asking the question successful.
I look at this forum like a poker boot camp sometimes, gotta break you down, to build you back up!