if you are betting him constantly as you stated you are uber-encouraging a call by Qx in this spot with a shove imo
yes this is totally a valid thought and a consideration
id add though that me checking the flop back is usually a very scary thing for villain. So it sticks out like a sore thumb, like a 'wtf' and then when i jam he knows sometimes i have an 8
don't get me wrong, there are plenty of places for the overbet heads up, isildur does it a lot deepstacked. I just think that with small stakes heads up, looking for a sizing for any one single barrel designed to blow your opponent off off the strong part of his range is a bad idea. He definitely has it in the back of his head that you can be bluffing and your hand has enough showdown value to make this either a negative freeroll or a super specific soulread bet designed for a queen and a queen only, a range that doesn't really feel realistic to assign or even neccesary to exploit since we should have a bigger edge hu without bluffing like this
Edit: Isildur does these sick overbets on boards like :kc:7c :7h:6c:5d boards that just makes me want to kill myself for being in the callers spot, regardless of my hand lol
Fine villain has qx, the answer is obvious then. boring thread
:bs:
not sure your thinking about what im gonna say but i was wrong in my explanation of my read. You're all right he can have flushes thats not why i posted....I can't always remember my reasons after i save a hh
its because he can't really have better than Qx
hes absolutely capable of folding that and will never call with worse hands that beat us
I bet small on the turn because if he doesn't have an A Q or a draw he will fold to that size
I beat everything else at show down but am only losing to Qx and hands that fold
The turn card was a bad card for Qx and the river was the worst card in the deck for it
might still be a redic obv check...but this player was really really scared money
i might whips this hh into a vid because their was some decent dynamic at the ft and with the hu spots
don't get me wrong, there are plenty of places for the overbet heads up, isildur does it a lot deepstacked. I just think that with small stakes heads up, looking for a sizing for any one single barrel designed to blow your opponent off off the strong part of his range is a bad idea. He definitely has it in the back of his head that you can be bluffing and your hand has enough showdown value to make this either a negative freeroll or a super specific soulread bet designed for a queen and a queen only, a range that doesn't really feel realistic to assign or even neccesary to exploit since we should have a bigger edge hu without bluffing like this
Edit: Isildur does these sick overbets on boards like :kc:7c :7h:6c:5d boards that just makes me want to kill myself for being in the callers spot, regardless of my hand lol
i have an over bet jam thread coming but first we gotta do btp's 'dealing with donk bets and donk betting'
not sure your thinking about what im gonna say but i was wrong in my explanation of my read. You're all right he can have flushes thats not why i posted....I can't always remember my reasons after i save a hh
its because he can't really have better than Qx
hes absolutely capable of folding that and will never call with worse hands that beat us
I bet small on the turn because if he doesn't have an A Q or a draw he will fold to that size
I beat everything else at show down but am only losing to Qx and hands that fold
The turn card was a bad card for Qx and the river was the worst card in the deck for it
might still be a redic obv check...but this player was really really scared money
i might whips this hh into a vid because their was some decent dynamic at the ft and with the hu spots
the advantage of the vid is that I don't have to read each sentence 7 times to understand your points:)
id add though that me checking the flop back is usually a very scary thing for villain.
highly doubt that... I don't really see why checking back that flop would be too scary at all, and doubt even more that villain is hand reading or making any type of inferences that would lead him to be scared once you check back...
fwiw just check river, I think an ace is just as likely if not more likely than a Q, and he never folds an A and doesn't always fold a Q, and your jam needs to work over half of the times... you do win a non-zero % of the time when you check as well.
its because he can't really have better than Qx
hes absolutely capable of folding that and will never call with worse hands that beat us
If this was true then sure you should shove but it's just not true... you're obv jumping to conclusions way too quickly, you just can't get reads like "he can't really have better than Qx + he's absolutely capable of folding" in like a sample of 20 or however many heads up hands you've played. I can probably count the times on my fingers I've been able to get reads like that on people that aren't some sort of reg I've played 1000s of hands with. And the times that I've done it in a turbo are significantly less given how much less post flop you play.
The turn card was a bad card for Qx and the river was the worst card in the deck for it
The river seems like a brick mostly, definitely not the worst card in the deck.
I agree - I don't see how you put him on Qx EVERY time here. Sure it's in his range, but many other hands would play exactly the same way here, including X8 with a big heart or many of the other hands the other posters mentioned. I think his range is huge here, and many hands in that range beat you.
Also, he only has 10bb back and the pot is already almost as big as his stack (42k-ish by my math), so this could be THE hand of his tournament.
Finally, given that you've been "picking on him", he may have very well hit a monster and is counting on your aggro to do the betting for him (don't know if he's that good or not), OR gives you zero credit for a hand if you shove.
I think he calls with ANY hand that beats you if you shove. I'd check behind and move on to the next hand.
checking flop, betting under your pre flop sizing on turn, over jamming river HU seems veryyyyy bluffy this is fact lol.
So he prob won't care to think about what you have but more how your play makes no sense for a strong hand!
checking flop, betting under your pre flop sizing on turn, over jamming river HU seems veryyyyy bluffy this is fact lol.
So he prob won't care to think about what you have but more how your play makes no sense for a strong hand!
i think i do this with strong aces and 8x though for sure
saying you think you do it, and actually doing it is way different, your telling me you don't cbet A high or 8x?
Ak has too much sd value to be cr by a flush draw or weak qx.....8x...same thing...strong hand.....can't stand much cr...also....ax...same thing...too strong for cbet..vs some boars and certain opps with strong pre flatting ing range...
we are playing too different games clearly. Ak i agree with but not anything else.....you want to start check calling streets with second pair thats gonna be a leak, same with A high. You can't check them then fold to one bet either? so OPTIMAL would be to cbet them
If he has a queen here, I feel he donks the turn if he as a Q or A. if you checked it the flop
Since you are most likely still Cbeting any Ace, so that is not in your range.
When he floats and checks river, I check back river.. like 99% of the time
There is no reason for you to be trying to steal this pot and he could of floated u with a ton of hands on that turn. (Fish do that)
If he has a queen here, I feel he donks the turn if he as a Q or A. if you checked it the flop
Since you are most likely still Cbeting any Ace, so that is not in your range.
When he floats and checks river, I check back river.. like 99% of the time
There is no reason for you to be trying to steal this pot and he could of floated u with a ton of hands on that turn. (Fish do that)
Loving your opinion
he can't donk a queen cause its soo likely i checked a missed ace. As for floating hes not floating air. And we aren't making a plan on him floating the turn with air, maybe one heart. :-\ Ill check back ajo
we are playing too different games clearly. Ak i agree with but not anything else.....you want to start check calling streets with second pair thats gonna be a leak, same with A high. You can't check them then fold to one bet either? so OPTIMAL would be to cbet them
this was a Qxx flop ....ya but imagine im playing like 30/28
this was a Qxx flop ....ya but imagine im playing like 30/28
you do know that those are my standard stats, so yeah I imagine it when i tell you my opinion. This is a bad line to take with any hand period. (doing what you did then jamming river)
you do know that those are my standard stats, so yeah I imagine it when i tell you my opinion. This is a bad line to take with any hand period. (doing what you did then jamming river)
no...you play hald 30/28 unless over half its 6 max.... im 40 your15
It doesn't really matter what hands you could play like this or what your hand looks like and stuff. If we changed your hand to Ax would you play it like this darb?
not sure your thinking about what im gonna say but i was wrong in my explanation of my read. You're all right he can have flushes thats not why i posted....I can't always remember my reasons after i save a hh
its because he can't really have better than Qx
hes absolutely capable of folding that and will never call with worse hands that beat us
I bet small on the turn because if he doesn't have an A Q or a draw he will fold to that size
I beat everything else at show down but am only losing to Qx and hands that fold
The turn card was a bad card for Qx and the river was the worst card in the deck for it
might still be a redic obv check...but this player was really really scared money
i might whips this hh into a vid because their was some decent dynamic at the ft and with the hu spots
If he's scared money, move on to the next hand and kick his ass when you have a less bluffy/stronger looking spot. You're good enough to do that. No need to get fancy about it.
Comments
id add though that me checking the flop back is usually a very scary thing for villain. So it sticks out like a sore thumb, like a 'wtf' and then when i jam he knows sometimes i have an 8
I feel a ban coming
Edit: Isildur does these sick overbets on boards like :kc:7c :7h:6c:5d boards that just makes me want to kill myself for being in the callers spot, regardless of my hand lol
its because he can't really have better than Qx
hes absolutely capable of folding that and will never call with worse hands that beat us
I bet small on the turn because if he doesn't have an A Q or a draw he will fold to that size
I beat everything else at show down but am only losing to Qx and hands that fold
The turn card was a bad card for Qx and the river was the worst card in the deck for it
might still be a redic obv check...but this player was really really scared money
i might whips this hh into a vid because their was some decent dynamic at the ft and with the hu spots
the advantage of the vid is that I don't have to read each sentence 7 times to understand your points:)
haha neither, stayed the same :P
highly doubt that... I don't really see why checking back that flop would be too scary at all, and doubt even more that villain is hand reading or making any type of inferences that would lead him to be scared once you check back...
fwiw just check river, I think an ace is just as likely if not more likely than a Q, and he never folds an A and doesn't always fold a Q, and your jam needs to work over half of the times... you do win a non-zero % of the time when you check as well.
If this was true then sure you should shove but it's just not true... you're obv jumping to conclusions way too quickly, you just can't get reads like "he can't really have better than Qx + he's absolutely capable of folding" in like a sample of 20 or however many heads up hands you've played. I can probably count the times on my fingers I've been able to get reads like that on people that aren't some sort of reg I've played 1000s of hands with. And the times that I've done it in a turbo are significantly less given how much less post flop you play.
The river seems like a brick mostly, definitely not the worst card in the deck.
Also, he only has 10bb back and the pot is already almost as big as his stack (42k-ish by my math), so this could be THE hand of his tournament.
Finally, given that you've been "picking on him", he may have very well hit a monster and is counting on your aggro to do the betting for him (don't know if he's that good or not), OR gives you zero credit for a hand if you shove.
I think he calls with ANY hand that beats you if you shove. I'd check behind and move on to the next hand.
So he prob won't care to think about what you have but more how your play makes no sense for a strong hand!
Since you are most likely still Cbeting any Ace, so that is not in your range.
When he floats and checks river, I check back river.. like 99% of the time
There is no reason for you to be trying to steal this pot and he could of floated u with a ton of hands on that turn. (Fish do that)
he can't donk a queen cause its soo likely i checked a missed ace. As for floating hes not floating air. And we aren't making a plan on him floating the turn with air, maybe one heart. :-\ Ill check back ajo
you do know that those are my standard stats, so yeah I imagine it when i tell you my opinion. This is a bad line to take with any hand period. (doing what you did then jamming river)
If he's scared money, move on to the next hand and kick his ass when you have a less bluffy/stronger looking spot. You're good enough to do that. No need to get fancy about it.
ummmm wanna bet? lol