Dead Pool Dead?
Okay, here it is . . . some of the managers in this years pool are aggrieved over what they see as an angle shoot on the part of one manager.
Basically, that manager selected a Death Row inmate with a scheduled execution date, and all appeals exhausted. There are no rules in place to prevent this, but of course the argument becomes, "the spirit of the game".
My position as Moderator has been that, while it may be an angle shoot, there are no rules in place to prevent it, and therefore the manager should be paid out per the agreed schedule. One manager has already stated his desire to forfeit his position in the pool over this, so what I would like to know is the following:
Given what has occurred with regard to this year's pool, do the managers involved wish to scrub the pool for this year, and develop new rules to prevent a similar occurrence in the future?
To keep some sense on anonymity, managers can respond via PM if they like.
Basically, that manager selected a Death Row inmate with a scheduled execution date, and all appeals exhausted. There are no rules in place to prevent this, but of course the argument becomes, "the spirit of the game".
My position as Moderator has been that, while it may be an angle shoot, there are no rules in place to prevent it, and therefore the manager should be paid out per the agreed schedule. One manager has already stated his desire to forfeit his position in the pool over this, so what I would like to know is the following:
Given what has occurred with regard to this year's pool, do the managers involved wish to scrub the pool for this year, and develop new rules to prevent a similar occurrence in the future?
To keep some sense on anonymity, managers can respond via PM if they like.
Comments
We should keep discussion of this issue within this thread or in the DPIII chat thread so as not to clutter things up horribly.
Just found another little snipit that is worth reading from the "I've fallen and can't get up" dead pool. Not sure of it's background or how long it's been running but these sound like credible guidelines.
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular] WHAT CONSTITUTES A CELEBRITY?[/FONT] [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Several factors must be met in order for a pick to meet the definition of celebrity. First, the pick must be alive at the time the list is e-mailed or submitted. A pick who is dead when placed on a list, will be removed from that list by the 2011 IFAICGU Celebrity Dead Pool and the Death Watcher submitting the list ends up playing with a list containing less people than the other Death Watchers. The Death Watcher simply loses the pick from their list and plays out the season with a reduced number of picks on that entry. (Remember, do your homework kiddies).[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Second, a celebrity must have some notability. Since that can be a questionable term, the 2011 IFAICGU Celebrity Dead Pool defines a celebrity as any famous sports, political, entertainment, or other national or international figure whose death is announced in the Associated Press. (Use your heads here.... movie stars are celebrities, movie extras are not; presidents of countries are celebrities, presidents of your local girl scout troop are not; singers and song writers of national or international note are celebrities; the fact that you sing in the shower does not make you a celebrity). We hope you get it. If you pick the truly obscure, you run the risk of not scoring the death as the person may not get an AP report of their death. In addition, you make our job harder and most of the other Death Watchers get really snotty about you too.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Third, certain riff raff, though their deaths will likely be reported in the AP, are excluded from celebrity status. No person who is killed by a scheduled execution: foreign, federal, or state, will count as a celebrity (this does not include assassination, overthrow, or coup d'etat). The idea here is no death row, political prisoners condemned to death, or the like.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, Swiss, SunSans-Regular]NEW RULE FOR 2009:[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, Swiss, SunSans-Regular]Starting with the 2009 IFAICGU Celebrity Dead Pool, there is now an exception to the Associated Press mention being the sole criteria for qualifying as a celebrity. Just being the 'oldest' at something (example: oldest man in the world, etc) will no longer qualify as a celebrity. So don't got looking for the 'oldest' of anything--they won't count. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, Swiss, SunSans-Regular]Still confused? Okay, here's an example: a Death Watcher picks the 'Oldest Woman in the United States.' Assuming she's not famous for any reason other than being the oldest woman in the United States, here death would not count in the 2011 IFAICGU Celeberity Dead Pool--even if she does get a mention in the Associated Press. On the other hand, picking, say, a retired star NFL quarterback who also happened to be currently the oldest living NFL player would count. Why the difference? Because in the second example, just being a retired star NFL quarterback is probably going to be enough to get the AP mention anyway. The fact that he is also the oldest is a secondary claim to fame (and only became a claim to fame because he lived so long, not because of what he's accomplished in life). Still confused? Well, that's too bad, because that's all the examples you're getting. So just stay away from the 'oldest' picks and you should be fine.
Another snipit:
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]14. DUMBASS RULE #2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Here's our second Death Watcher related rule. Let's say John scours the Internet for really old people. Then he proceeds to put some of these folks on his list for the 2011 IFAICGU Celebrity Dead Pool . Two things might happen. First, one lady might die and not get an AP mention. Bummer. Second, let's say John couldn't even remember who some of his entries were or what the hell made them even remotely famous. So the rule is this: You need to know who your entries are and must be able to prove a mention of their deaths in the AP if asked by the 2011 IFAICGU Celebrity Dead Pool. Inability to produce such mention of death in the AP, if asked, will cause us to consider your dead person a "Non-Celebrity." Non-Celebrities will not count as valid picks in the pool and will not be counted to tally up a winner at the end of the 2011 IFAICGU Celebrity Dead Pool.[/FONT]
I have no interest in seeing that happen and see no reason why resolution to the current problems aren't possible.
We have a dp moderator, a PFC moderator, an acclaimed tournament director (Al) all of which have significant experience in making decisions that result in the "best interests of the continuation of the game" in their respective fields.
If we're going to dig our heels in to the point where no negotiation or compromise is possible, then we're just being overly stubborn.
Its not an angle shoot, its called research. Same as putting Etta James first on your list for this year, knowing how dire her health is.
And, I picked last, so this was available for anyone else to do prior to my pick.
And we have an angle shooter that hasn't come back to present any defense for his "sneaky" pick.
Lol. You know what happens when you assume. Read the threads.
Not you. The Mill picked some random death row inmate with no appeals left.
But we're not 'mid-stream'. The pool just went active. We're actually damn lucky that this happened now and not later in the year.
It would be very easy to come implement some new rules and scrub any picks that aren't 'valid' from any roster, (not just TheMills') and pick up a few 'pinch hitters' in those lists, or have EVERYONE a list member or two to even out the number of players per list.
I am starting to feel that the best solution might be to cancel the current pool, revamp the rules, and start over. But I would like to hear from more of the managers first.
Scrubbing the pool and starting over will sour the perception and involvement in the pool. I am sure that if we scrub it and start over there will not be the same number of managers in the reconstructed pool, or in future years pools.
Correct.
I'm also against picking the 'oldest WHATEVER in the world' if they also don't have any other fame to back up their notoriety.
Please see bolded.
Isn't that what I said?
Wow, I expected some flak but the dissolving of the dp.. CRAZY. Milo was right, I had a strategy going into this, Picking the worlds oldest person,Oldest Holocaust survivor etc. kinda seem like no brainers. When we play cards were all looking for AA starting hand right? So I picked the oldest people in world, to me there the closet human being mathematically to the finish line. Would you rather pay to fill your empty gas tank or fill it up from half ? As for picking your "uncle fred" if uncle fred gets 1.6 million hits on google (and your not pushing him down the stairs) then by all means pick him and I would be more than HAPPY to pay out. Calling this angle shooting is a strech. In no way am I trying to decive/cheat people outta there money. Being the rookie on DP3 I wanted to make sure that I at least got 1 player across the line. If I was terminally ill and picked myself would this be cheating? I would say yes, But if another player knew of my condition and picked me I see that as perfectly legit (not with standing the fact that I don't even come close to meeting the infamous factor)
Look, bottom line and I say this to all mangers
I REALLY like the forum and the people on it and hope to have nothing but great experiances but I'm kinda feeling like I pissed off the "cool kids" in high school or beat the home town favorite at there own game and now am paying the price.
So in the interest of keeping everyone happy I will drop Gary from my team. But for the record I feel this is unfair, I am more interested in meeting new like mind people (card players) and trying to hone my meager poker skills. Then I am in collecting $80 that pstars will slowly suck from me. I hope the next time a fellow manger and myself find ourselves at the same table/trrny that we could take a few minutes to discuss this matter. Once again I very humbly apoligize for upsetting the players, I was just trying to be shrewd about my picks.
Sorry Milo didn't see your last post
As for the "oldest" debate, future pools should be under the rules wildbill posted here earlier.
I'd accept this.
I will agree to The Mill's compromise and appreciate his willingness to do this. And future pools will need rules to prevent this in the future.
I agree, has long as the rule's for next years pool are amended to keep those notorious but not FAMOUS people from the Dead Pool.
I don't think it has anything to do with pissing off the cool kids, and it's unfortunate but understandable that he feels that way.
I could go either way in terms of paying out the death as I feel we may have created our own problem by not addressing the situation prior to the pool having started.
I do not believe that any decision will make everyone happy and satisfied in the overall sense, however in this regard compromise is necessary.
With Aziz, there is no guarantee that the execution will ever take place. On Dec 5, Welch had clemency denied. Excluding the fact that he was a random, he was chosen after his clemency was denied. You KNEW he was going to die.
Now lets move on
Welch will be deleted from TheMill's roster. After that change, all rosters are set in stone, and future deaths will be paid out accordingly, based on the age structure posted.
Future Dead Pools will be posted with an amended and complete rules structure to prevent this issue from cropping up again.
As Hobbes said, lets move on gents.
So, at this point we have an agreement in place by the majority.
Do we wait for Al and Comp to speak to the matter?
If you (or anyone else) wants to pay the $10, go right ahead.
As for the comprimise, that's exactly what it is. There are ill feelings on both sides but if everyone can agree to move on, then let's do it.
Yes
Knowing Al, and never hearing him curse before, I think his use of the term "fuckers" in the other thread says it all.
However, I agree that both would be happy with the compromise in the better interest of the perception of the fairness of the pool by the majority. Personally I think Comp is waiting to see if the shitstorm subsides before he steps into the spray. Al's probably got better things to do on a Sunday morning!