well, you've successfully showed that there's at least one less than stellar player playing micro tournaments calling unexploitable shoves too wide. If you want to show that there's at least 2 be my guest, it won't hold any meaning unless you post a proportionate amount of hands where random villains limpfold
ill get in this tonight but is this my assumptions....cause it wasn't an assumption he folds most of his range that was the read...but if thats not what were talking about ill smoke on,,,
well, you've successfully showed that there's at least one less than stellar player playing micro tournaments calling unexploitable shoves too wide. If you want to show that there's at least 2 be my guest, it won't hold any meaning unless you post a proportionate amount of hands where random villains limpfold
we are talking about over a large sample you will get the call and will be more profitable in the long run then not shoving
yes but for this example the reason i marked the hand is because i felt he would fold alot of his range to a shove....a random player i don't think will fold as much....
Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2011/09/10 2:26:59 CET [2011/09/09 20:26:59 ET]
Table '437010865 101' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: pipemaster55 (2733 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: ASLAN535 (7035 in chips)
Seat 3: MARINOVICH (24021 in chips)
Seat 4: cep27 (2900 in chips)
Seat 5: mn81cpj (3305 in chips)
Seat 6: leyteris261 (5796 in chips)
Seat 7: pokerjord551 (14158 in chips)
Seat 8: candy1203 (4326 in chips)
Seat 9: dirtydeclan (2550 in chips)
candy1203: posts small blind 100
dirtydeclan: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to candy1203 [Jh Kh]
pipemaster55: folds
ASLAN535: calls 200
MARINOVICH: folds
cep27: folds
mn81cpj: folds
leyteris261: folds
pokerjord551: calls 200
candy1203: raises 4126 to 4326 and is all-in
dirtydeclan: calls 2350 and is all-in
ASLAN535: folds
pokerjord551: folds
Uncalled bet (1776) returned to candy1203
*** FLOP *** [8c 8h As]
*** TURN *** [8c 8h As] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [8c 8h As 4h] [Tc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
candy1203: shows [Jh Kh] (a pair of Eights)
dirtydeclan: shows [7d 8d] (three of a kind, Eights)
dirtydeclan collected 5500 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5500 | Rake 0
Board [8c 8h As 4h Tc]
Seat 1: pipemaster55 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ASLAN535 folded before Flop
Seat 3: MARINOVICH folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: cep27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: mn81cpj folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: leyteris261 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: pokerjord551 (button) folded before Flop
Seat 8: candy1203 (small blind) showed [Jh Kh] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 9: dirtydeclan (big blind) showed [7d 8d] and won (5500) with three of a kind, Eights
I stake a low limit player ........confirms that you get way tooo much action which is why its harder to win to low mtts cause there is nearly 0 FE.
can't believe you said this ...
this thread is two people being right......in this spot though...i have reads on the villain to know he will be calling tight....he is not limp calling off kjs...i wonder if that changes the answer?
there are many weak passive players who limp fold with no regard for being run over...
there are also many who limp to see a free flop but tend to decide what the hell ill call my a7s anyway.....sometimes they only call me like that too because i show up with kjs or 44 or T9s.......
in general tho......if somone limps we can shove and expect to get looked up a ton...but because there is some fold equity i think we have to widen our shoving range a little.....but it def depends on the player....
The next subject will be whether or not there is a new breed of skill ful limp callers....exploiting people playing tight to limpers.......
i hate limpers and the whole culture scares me so i attack them all day....
idk all what's going on in this thread but shoving is fine/probably standard, but I def wouldn't rule out raising here. With this particular stack I think make it bigger and bet/call most flops is ok. The reason just raising is a fine option is that any time someone calls our raise with super short effective stacks with a worse hand than ours, we're printing money, because it's just not going to be profitable for them to try and out flop us. Yes they're going to out-flop us some % of the time, but that's fine, most of the time we're gonna have the best hand and get it in really good when we both flop top pair, or we win every time both of us flop nothing.
The downside to raising is mostly that it makes stacks awkward depending on our sizing and we have to bet/call with the worse hand a bunch because of pot-odds. Also if it gets multi-way it sucks for us. If we're pretty sure that we'll get heads up with a weak limper the majority of the time I don't mind raising. Jamming is fine too. I mean we have an A and a K with 16BB, as long as we don't fold we're going to be making money, so neither shoving nor raising is completely retarded, it just depends on the table mostly to know which is better.
I just find that in this spot we are getting called way to often when we shove to just raise and leave money out there that we could have got in the middle with a shove. That is just how I see it anyways.
The reason just raising is a fine option is that any time someone calls our raise with super short effective stacks with a worse hand than ours, we're printing money, because it's just not going to be profitable for them to try and out flop us.
yes this is what i wanted to know..why i marked this hand.... here this guy was trying to see flop with ridiculous hands and wasn't paying attention to stack sizes and what not.... so sometimes i took this line when i knew i could should and hed fold alot.....against 95% of players tho ill just shove....
and i woulda raised a little bigger but multi tabling....too much too type..lazy..
Comments
hand hurts my brain cos JeanGrae is a sicko
I know haha maybe why its a bad example. Dont know why he was in this micro haha
i haven't read this thread tho...
Table '437010865 101' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: pipemaster55 (2733 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 2: ASLAN535 (7035 in chips)
Seat 3: MARINOVICH (24021 in chips)
Seat 4: cep27 (2900 in chips)
Seat 5: mn81cpj (3305 in chips)
Seat 6: leyteris261 (5796 in chips)
Seat 7: pokerjord551 (14158 in chips)
Seat 8: candy1203 (4326 in chips)
Seat 9: dirtydeclan (2550 in chips)
candy1203: posts small blind 100
dirtydeclan: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to candy1203 [Jh Kh]
pipemaster55: folds
ASLAN535: calls 200
MARINOVICH: folds
cep27: folds
mn81cpj: folds
leyteris261: folds
pokerjord551: calls 200
candy1203: raises 4126 to 4326 and is all-in
dirtydeclan: calls 2350 and is all-in
ASLAN535: folds
pokerjord551: folds
Uncalled bet (1776) returned to candy1203
*** FLOP *** [8c 8h As]
*** TURN *** [8c 8h As] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [8c 8h As 4h] [Tc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
candy1203: shows [Jh Kh] (a pair of Eights)
dirtydeclan: shows [7d 8d] (three of a kind, Eights)
dirtydeclan collected 5500 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5500 | Rake 0
Board [8c 8h As 4h Tc]
Seat 1: pipemaster55 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ASLAN535 folded before Flop
Seat 3: MARINOVICH folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: cep27 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: mn81cpj folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: leyteris261 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: pokerjord551 (button) folded before Flop
Seat 8: candy1203 (small blind) showed [Jh Kh] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 9: dirtydeclan (big blind) showed [7d 8d] and won (5500) with three of a kind, Eights
this thread is two people being right......in this spot though...i have reads on the villain to know he will be calling tight....he is not limp calling off kjs...i wonder if that changes the answer?
there are many weak passive players who limp fold with no regard for being run over...
there are also many who limp to see a free flop but tend to decide what the hell ill call my a7s anyway.....sometimes they only call me like that too because i show up with kjs or 44 or T9s.......
in general tho......if somone limps we can shove and expect to get looked up a ton...but because there is some fold equity i think we have to widen our shoving range a little.....but it def depends on the player....
The next subject will be whether or not there is a new breed of skill ful limp callers....exploiting people playing tight to limpers.......
i hate limpers and the whole culture scares me so i attack them all day....
The downside to raising is mostly that it makes stacks awkward depending on our sizing and we have to bet/call with the worse hand a bunch because of pot-odds. Also if it gets multi-way it sucks for us. If we're pretty sure that we'll get heads up with a weak limper the majority of the time I don't mind raising. Jamming is fine too. I mean we have an A and a K with 16BB, as long as we don't fold we're going to be making money, so neither shoving nor raising is completely retarded, it just depends on the table mostly to know which is better.
and i woulda raised a little bigger but multi tabling....too much too type..lazy..