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as per hobbes...

UnknownUnknown
in MTT Strategy
PokerStars Game #61945169525: Tournament #392379657, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIV (1500/3000) - 2011/05/10 20:14:16 PT [2011/05/10 23:14:16 ET]
Table '392379657 6' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: BIGMICKG (22010 in chips)
Seat 2: LRAIFM (11263 in chips)
Seat 3: Moorman1 (22547 in chips)
Seat 4: HowDoWeDo (19572 in chips)
Seat 5: zilbeee (30930 in chips)
Seat 6: JasonX85 (5000 in chips)
Seat 7: johnj16 (22700 in chips)
Seat 8: forboon (24884 in chips)
Seat 9: QcKimo (4895 in chips)
BIGMICKG: posts the ante 300
LRAIFM: posts the ante 300
Moorman1: posts the ante 300
HowDoWeDo: posts the ante 300
zilbeee: posts the ante 300
JasonX85: posts the ante 300
johnj16: posts the ante 300
forboon: posts the ante 300
QcKimo: posts the ante 300
LRAIFM: posts small blind 1500
Moorman1: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon [Tc 8c]
HowDoWeDo: folds
zilbeee: folds
JasonX85: folds
johnj16: folds
forboon: Shoves ???
«1

Comments

  • UnknownUnknown
    and does having players like moorman ahead of me make this more or less of a shove
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    darbday wrote: »
    and does having players like moorman ahead of me make this more or less of a shove

    not relevant.

    This is not as wide as you can do this. nh.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    not relevant.
    i had three reasons why it is but then i refuted them all..
  • HobbesHobbes
    Hey wetts,

    If you have moorman's stack, what are you calling off with here vs forboon's shove.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Hobbes wrote: »
    Hey wetts,

    If you have moorman's stack, what are you calling off with here vs forboon's shove.
    its slightly less than what he needs to call with to make it a break even shove for me...in other words in my opinion i gain slightly vs him folding a little too much.

    and this is the part id like vekked to clear up...or wetts.....but i can never lose in the long run vs moorman here...unless hes drunk....

    and because of the other players in the pot i can't expect to gain more in the long run because they aren't as good....
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    Hobbes wrote: »
    Hey wetts,

    If you have moorman's stack, what are you calling off with here vs forboon's shove.

    Any ace/pair, k10+, maybe k9s, qjs
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    darbday wrote: »
    but i can never lose in the long run vs moorman here...unless hes drunk..

    basically this.
  • UnknownUnknown
    if im more mooreman im calling close to this....

    22+ Ax+ K2s+ K8o+ Q6s+ Q9o+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s


    not trying to answer your question hobbes...more trying to compare answers....
  • UnknownUnknown
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    Any ace/pair, k10+, maybe k9s, qjs
    i feel like he has to put me on a wider range since its a late position 8bbs shove....and that hed give me some credit for shoving correctly based on the standardness....but ya i feel like he calls a little too tight because of my stats...and unknowness but i forgot we are 5 from the money
  • UnknownUnknown
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    basically this.
    actually being from the uk maybe he was drunk...
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    darbday wrote: »
    if im more mooreman im calling close to this....

    22+ Ax+ K2s+ K8o+ Q6s+ Q9o+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s


    not trying to answer your question hobbes...more trying to compare answers....

    This assumes villain is always competent, so its OK. I personally give people a bit more credit for being not perfect (by this I mean lack of playing unexploitably), but in game I prob call a little tighter than this, but not a ton.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    This assumes villain is always competent, so its OK. I personally give people a bit more credit for being not perfect (by this I mean lack of playing unexploitably), but in game I prob call a little tighter than this, but not a ton.
    yes i answered the question wrong...if wetts were moorman....but if moorman were more moorman i can't help but think hed soul read my shoving capabilities.....:p
  • Wetts1012Wetts1012
    darbday wrote: »
    yes i answered the question wrong...if wetts were moorman....but if moorman were more moorman i can't help but think hed soul read my shoving capabilities.....:p

    helps when u can see the cards tho.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Wetts1012 wrote: »
    helps when u can see the cards tho.
    mbn
  • VekkedVekked
    yah ppl dont call that light in darb. This is obv a shove tho, in nash + ppl not calling as wide as nash.
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    is 22 really a call in moormans spot?
  • VekkedVekked
    I dont think moorman is gonna be calling super accurately either. Idk his shortstack game all that well but I think he's more fearsome when he gets chips. If it was a bunch of ex-SNG players I'd be more worried about some of my thinner shoves (not that I'd be worried with T8s here anyways tho, but maybe T7s or T6s).
  • UnknownUnknown
    Vekked wrote: »
    yah ppl dont call that light in darb. This is obv a shove tho, in nash + ppl not calling as wide as nash.
    but if moorman was the pusher here you snapping with....

    22+ Ax+ K2s+ K8o+ Q6s+ Q9o+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s?

    also i was under the assumption moorman was not a person
  • UnknownUnknown
    Vekked wrote: »
    I dont think moorman is gonna be calling super accurately either.
    i can't possibley be calling more accurate than moorman....
  • VekkedVekked
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    is 22 really a call in moormans spot?

    We're getting sick odds in the BB, we only need 42% to call. The only way we don't have that is if they're shoving less than 15% (77+,A7s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QJo). I don't think there's barely a person on the internet who's folding one of those hands, and most ppl are shoving way wider with 8BB in the hijack.
  • UnknownUnknown
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    is 22 really a call in moormans spot?
    well what are you shoving or what is a random with 96 or so on opr shove...he can't be far off perfect from me or he wouldn't be one of the best...
  • VekkedVekked
    darbday wrote: »
    but if moorman was the pusher here you snapping with....

    22+ Ax+ K2s+ K8o+ Q6s+ Q9o+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s?

    also i was under the assumption moorman was not a person

    Kinda depends how on my game I was. That's nash right? I think K2s, Q6s, 97s, 87s, type stuff might see the muck in game a lot of times. All hands in nash should 100% be called vs. regs at this level though, even slightly wider vs. most.
  • VekkedVekked
    darbday wrote: »
    well what are you shoving or what is a random with 96 or so on opr shove...he can't be far off perfect from me or he wouldn't be one of the best...

    You might be giving a bit too much credit to good regs and their shortstack abilities. Moorman probs is better than most regs for pushbotting, but a lot of regs are really atrocious, hence why I'm more likely to play 1k turbo's than normal 1k's. Many good regs aren't good just b/c they're shortstack ninjas.
  • betrthanphilbetrthanphil
    meh I dont like call with 22, even with odds. Maybe in a non turbo game with stacks at the table being much larger then the current stacks at this game. With stacks being so low I think its more profitable to fold and find a better spot. Not saying its correct or the best play, its just what a prefer.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Vekked wrote: »
    Kinda depends how on my game I was. That's nash right? I think K2s, Q6s, 97s, 87s, type stuff might see the muck in game a lot of times. All hands in nash should 100% be called vs. regs at this level though, even slightly wider vs. most.
    ok ok...thats what i was getting at and i think the range i gave is even slightly tight....

    edit: oops its slightly wide....i went the back wards way....

    this:
    22+ Ax+ K6s+ K9o+ Q9s+ QTo+ J9s+ T9s

    lord did you do that off your head....
  • UnknownUnknown
    Vekked wrote: »
    You might be giving a bit too much credit to good regs and their shortstack abilities. Moorman probs is better than most regs for pushbotting, but a lot of regs are really atrocious, hence why I'm more likely to play 1k turbo's than normal 1k's. Many good regs aren't good just b/c they're shortstack ninjas.
    this is an awesome convo i think because won't most turbos include better shortstackers....
  • VekkedVekked
    darbday wrote: »
    this is an awesome convo i think because won't most turbos include better shortstackers....

    Watcha mean exactly? Like turbo's will bring out better shortstack players? I think up to 109s or something it might be true, but most of the guys w/ enough money to play 1k turbos and stuff are guys who made most of that money due to their skills with deeper stacks.
  • UnknownUnknown
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    meh I dont like call with 22, even with odds. Maybe in a non turbo game with stacks at the table being much larger then the current stacks at this game. With stacks being so low I think its more profitable to fold and find a better spot. Not saying its correct or the best play, its just what a prefer.

    if moorman is the pusher its a rediculous fold i think....hes shoving wider than....

    22+ Ax+ K5s+ KTo+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s 76s
  • VekkedVekked
    betrthanphil wrote: »
    meh I dont like call with 22, even with odds. Maybe in a non turbo game with stacks at the table being much larger then the current stacks at this game. With stacks being so low I think its more profitable to fold and find a better spot. Not saying its correct or the best play, its just what a prefer.

    It could be true from an ICM/$EV perspective, like if we're deep in the money or close the the money bubble, but if we're far away from the money or it's a winner take all I think you have to call this for sure.
  • UnknownUnknown
    Vekked wrote: »
    Watcha mean exactly? Like turbo's will bring out better shortstack players? I think up to 109s or something it might be true, but most of the guys w/ enough money to play 1k turbos and stuff are guys who made most of that money due to their skills with deeper stacks.
    ya its just an assumption...but if your right then i should be able to move up in the turbos...
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