One of the early messages here says registration at 1PM. Another says registration/food 2PM. Don't arrive before 2PM. I think the food was served somewhere between 2:30 and 3:00. Pretty simple fare: salad, pasta, meatballs. Very tasty, though.
Actual tourney started around 3:30. 2000 chips for 60 bucks. You could re-buy before the tourney started and several people did. 2000 chips for 30 bucks. I should have seen this as a 'sign' - "Maniac City: Dead Ahead". People were going all-in UTG in the early rounds with 5-5. A guy beside me did this and after he doubled up he looked at me, shrugged and said, "Hey. It's the re-buy period!" And boy, were there re-buys! Roughly 2 per person. The table was very aggressive. Some of the stacks were absolutely huge.
My cards were terrible. The absolute best hand I had all day was J-J. I ended up doubling up with that one against an aggressive Vietnamese player (was he the club owner?) who had been raising me out of a lot of pots. It was frustrating folding the hands that would have been good enough to 'limp' in but not good enough to call an 'all-in' bet then seeing they would have handily beat the guys that did play. I made a poor play and called an all-in with a open-ended straight draw that didn't work out. It was a dumb call and I chalk it up to frustration. I ended up doing 1 re-buy.
The add-on was 4000 chips for 30 bucks. Pretty much an automatic for everyone who decided to play on. I lasted maybe 2 or 3 levels after the rebuy period. If you don't have a decent sized stack and aren't getting decent cards, you won't last long since the blinds go up so fast. I believe the blinds start at 200/400 after the break. I was able to win maybe 2 or 3 all-ins when I got down to 3-5xBB but got caught with 99 (my second best hand all day!) against JJ. Again that was a dumb EP raise out of frustration. I wasn't even desperate at that point as I'd just doubled up so I was at 8-9xBB. I was just so excited to see an almost decent hand.
Blinds start at 25/50 and double every 20 minutes. This seemed a bit fast to me. Others also commented on their displeasure with this in later rounds. There was only really only 1 bet after the re-buy: all-in.
Another forum member, Len, used this bet with devastating effectiveness. He said 'all-in' so authoritatively, it pretty much scared everyone out of the pot! He won a lot of pots without having to show his cards. One time I think he won with 7-7. I'm pretty sure his cards weren't that great on all these hands but they were probably better than most of the other guys.
Shopsy, my nemesis, was also at the tourney. I was very impressed with his play. He made it into the top 25, I'd say. I believe Len was out either shortly before him or shortly after. Chugs showed up as well but too late for the tourney. I had a nice chat with him nonetheless. I noticed a couple of the hands he was playing in the 10/20 sidegame. Huge pots!
I'd say Azim did a fine job running the tourney. Top notch staff. The dealers were good. I only noticed a couple of times where the dealers had to call Azim in for a ruling.
I have a couple of beefs but it is not like I'm saying "Don't go to this tourney". These are just things newcomers should be aware of before they get there. Better they know in advance and accept it than be dissatisfied.
* Late start. I'd prefer to skip the food. Or tell people to show up for registration at 3:15.
* Blinds. For me they went up too fast. Others felt that way too. I know you don't want the tourney to run all night but players should get more than 3 hours of play for $150.
* Kids. There were at least a couple young teenagers playing. I don't know why but I'm not comfortable with that.
* Soft play. It seemed to me a couple of the players, who were obvious friends, played very softly against each other when they were heads-up in a hand. Basically checking from the flop to showdown with hands like trips once and a flush another time. I'm not the only one that noticed this. Is this acceptable?
* Security. The venue did not seem particularly secure to me. Most people would probably say "no big deal" but I am paranoid.
Will I play there again? Probably not for a while. My game is just not up to the level of play here. For me right now, my time and money are better spent learning and playing tourneys online. It was an interesting experience. I'm sure one day I'll venture back.
Good post - but I wonder a few things then. I agree that $35 worth of fees (and I know it was an estimate) is high on a $60 game, but then what needs to change? With a med buy in amount ($50-200), it is hard to not offer food and staff and all the nice things that make it a great tournament.
You may know that I run a smaller version of these games on university campuses, but without taking a rake. Our games are a little more simple - no food provided, although it is available there at a 'poker' discount. No dealers are provided, but people who have been knocked out usually sit in and deal as the game progresses - maybe trying to make a tip - I dunno.
So far, for what it is, people are happy with it. For this upcoming game (13th) I have changed the format from rebuys to a single reload after an hour. Less bingo, but I have raised the stakes to keep the prize pool similar to what people expect. Similar blind structures though. 25/50 doubling every 30 mins. Chip count to start is $2500 and the reload is $2000.
I guess I am wondering, would a game with a $60 buy in one time, with a $30 reload suffer from not having food and dealers, but all the $$$ goes into the prize pool?
Would players still be interested in helping out a little to keep the events rake free? Or am I better off taking some off the top for costs, but then you get a fancier tournament. I lean towards keeping it simple, but I wanted some feedback. Where's the value for a player. Ironic as it may seem, I hate playing in poker tourneys
I don't ask that in a mean way but the people pkrfce9 was talking about didn't look look like they were a day over 12, one was i know cause he drove them there.
If you were one of them understand the uncomfort likely comes not cause your good or bad poker players, but in many ways seeing 'kids' play the game you kind of having this corrupting feeling.
Myself my mind says: what are poker players doing, creating a generation of gamblers (forget the whole skill vs. gambling argument) ... and getting them really started at an early age. you really start to feel a bit of guilt, but that's only me. So while you guys can play and maybe outplay older players i would still even in a private game rather not see a 12 year old.
I was thinking, "I don't want to take some kid's money." How funny is that? They were taking my money! :redface: Not directly since I wasn't at their table but they lasted longer than I did.
I think the "corrupting their morals" angle may be valid. This is a substantial chunk of change for a kid - at least I hope it is. If they lose, does this mean they don't eat lunch for a month? I really don't want to be part of that. Are we breeding poker addicts? I don't care how old someone is - I don't want to be playing against someone who is in way over their head.
I was also thinking if the kids' parents didn't know about it and then found out, this could set the stage for a police raid one day based on a parent's complaint. This is something I'm not too keen on.
Finally, the less experience someone has, the more likely there will be rules violations. I know I heard someone complain about a string bet. This is not strictly related to young people - I'm fairly inexperienced in B&M games myself. The less mature a person is, the more likely their behaviour will be inappropriate. Not that I witnessed any of that on Sunday. Then again, just look at Phil Hellmuth...
i like that younger kids are learing our art. it's good for them. I have to say though that i think tournament directors shoudl still only let 19+ players attend.
you KNOW there are parenst out there that are going to give rediculous complaints to the police, and then the police are going to make our poker events disappear.
here is an example:
i am an avid dirtbiker. i love to ride trails on my dirtbikes with family and so on because it's soemthing i enjoy as a safe way to pass the time. there is nothing wrong with it as long as you are being responsible right? WELL, some kid wasnt being responsible when he was riding and sued the city of cambridge about 20 years back. and won danmit!!! now it is strictly illegal and strictly enforced in the K-W area. you cant find anywhere to ride within 150 kilometres of K-W (that i'm aware of). so where are all the responsible riders supposed to ride now that one irresponsible rider fucked everything up????
.....and where are all the responsible poker players going to play once some irresponsible kid gets in over his, or her head and complains to their hyperactive parents??
No one there was 12. The youngest guy was 16, and it was only a $60 buy in. Kids spend more than that at Sega City. Poker has a much younger crowd now than before it hit TV. None of them at the event were irresponsible or over their heads.
I'm not saying there in over their heads and i don't want to offend anyone. I'll put it this way i'm sure they could all clean me out heads up, and are better players than me. Them being 16 is a bit better, but i'll be honest two of them (and acesup maybe you were one of them) didn't look like they were over 12.
I'm sure your play is great, and i understand the effect of TV ... heck i'm a tv convert who came to poker, but you have to realize that you have a greater chance of some kids parent coming across this huge poker bankroll and finding out from their kid how they got it. having parents who are worried calling the cops etc...
i also as stated just have some personal moral issues, i really do feel like as poker players were assisting younger players to get into the game without fully understanding the ramifications of it. This emotion is partially because in my younger days i was a gambler of sorts and i know that if i had been exposed to poker at that age in the way that it's available today ... things really could have gotten out of hand for me.
So while i'm sure you and your friends are more responsible and we aren't your parents, i hope you understand why people may get uncomfortable also, and this has nothing to do with us not respecting your skill and ability
Just one of them was 16 the other 2 were 18 and I'm 20, 2 of them are my younger brothers. Chugs if you play online chances are you're playing against kids much younger than this. I don't think a poker tournament will corrupt anybody since poker is a much different form of gambling. But I can see what your concern is if too many young players started showing up.
glad you didn't take my post wrong AcesUp and as i said or think i said ... my concern was based on them being 12 or 13 ...
i got no worries with an 18 or 20 year old. If your old enough to smoke, nearly drink, die for your country and wrap a car around a light post ... by all means check raise to your hearts content.
If your old enough to smoke, nearly drink, die for your country and wrap a car around a light post ... by all means check raise to your hearts content.
that is hilarious.
In an online card room, there is no way to be sure how old everyone is. along with online porn. an underage kid can look at porn all he or she wants to (well thats what a friend told me..haha). but an underage kid cant make his way into a strip club to watch some boobies just liek he cant go into a casino and play poker. (i knwo it hapens sometimes though, but not often right?)
i was playing in a small hoem game last night and there was someone 18 years old playing. i just felt uincomfortable man, sorry
I played in a tournament at the Brantford Venom-No-Limit Club, I belive the buy-in was $85. Anyway, I eliminated a kid that was 14 years old. I had no problem with it and the kid seemed to be very happy to be playing in such an elite league (well, he thought it was elite). He was also wearing a pokerstars jacket which leads me to believe that he is playing poker online...playing poker online at home..playing poker online at home where his parents are. If his parents are cool letting him shell out his monthly paper route money on poker then I'm down with taking it....very down with taking it...very very down with taking it. you see what I'm saying?
Aces- I was sitting to the dealers Right , inbetween Dick and the Dealer. Dick also put me out with his Diamond Flush :mad:
Personally I dont care about the young guys being there. They played great, conducted themselves great. Actually i saw a few older guys who acted like 12 :P
Anywho, I'll be there Sunday again. Hope to see some of you there.
For the same reason that everyone has stated, I too do not feel comfortable with 16yr olds playing. Fortunately I was too busy giving my chips away to pay much attention to them...
I will be there next Sunday! I don't care if a green goblin shows up, it was a great event and next time I will protect my stack with a doze of patiance...
No wait, black leather jackets with "warriors" on the back.
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I'm just being silly... It should say "pokerforum" of course.
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.
.
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Wait, we don't have time to get them made. How about everyone ties a red bandana around their thigh?
There was a post a month o6 6 weeks ago in the general forum about getting some forum-wear made up - golf shirts or something like that.
I had suggested that I knew some people who might produce them but I think the minimums are high to get it done - someone else mentioned that they could get it done too.
Although this is not quite the right forum to discuss in, should we revisit the idea of forum-wear for identity purposes (and let's face it, the coolness factor)?
Comments
Actual tourney started around 3:30. 2000 chips for 60 bucks. You could re-buy before the tourney started and several people did. 2000 chips for 30 bucks. I should have seen this as a 'sign' - "Maniac City: Dead Ahead". People were going all-in UTG in the early rounds with 5-5. A guy beside me did this and after he doubled up he looked at me, shrugged and said, "Hey. It's the re-buy period!" And boy, were there re-buys! Roughly 2 per person. The table was very aggressive. Some of the stacks were absolutely huge.
My cards were terrible. The absolute best hand I had all day was J-J. I ended up doubling up with that one against an aggressive Vietnamese player (was he the club owner?) who had been raising me out of a lot of pots. It was frustrating folding the hands that would have been good enough to 'limp' in but not good enough to call an 'all-in' bet then seeing they would have handily beat the guys that did play. I made a poor play and called an all-in with a open-ended straight draw that didn't work out. It was a dumb call and I chalk it up to frustration. I ended up doing 1 re-buy.
The add-on was 4000 chips for 30 bucks. Pretty much an automatic for everyone who decided to play on. I lasted maybe 2 or 3 levels after the rebuy period. If you don't have a decent sized stack and aren't getting decent cards, you won't last long since the blinds go up so fast. I believe the blinds start at 200/400 after the break. I was able to win maybe 2 or 3 all-ins when I got down to 3-5xBB but got caught with 99 (my second best hand all day!) against JJ. Again that was a dumb EP raise out of frustration. I wasn't even desperate at that point as I'd just doubled up so I was at 8-9xBB. I was just so excited to see an almost decent hand.
Blinds start at 25/50 and double every 20 minutes. This seemed a bit fast to me. Others also commented on their displeasure with this in later rounds. There was only really only 1 bet after the re-buy: all-in.
Another forum member, Len, used this bet with devastating effectiveness. He said 'all-in' so authoritatively, it pretty much scared everyone out of the pot! He won a lot of pots without having to show his cards. One time I think he won with 7-7. I'm pretty sure his cards weren't that great on all these hands but they were probably better than most of the other guys.
Shopsy, my nemesis, was also at the tourney. I was very impressed with his play. He made it into the top 25, I'd say. I believe Len was out either shortly before him or shortly after. Chugs showed up as well but too late for the tourney. I had a nice chat with him nonetheless. I noticed a couple of the hands he was playing in the 10/20 sidegame. Huge pots!
I'd say Azim did a fine job running the tourney. Top notch staff. The dealers were good. I only noticed a couple of times where the dealers had to call Azim in for a ruling.
I have a couple of beefs but it is not like I'm saying "Don't go to this tourney". These are just things newcomers should be aware of before they get there. Better they know in advance and accept it than be dissatisfied.
* Late start. I'd prefer to skip the food. Or tell people to show up for registration at 3:15.
* Blinds. For me they went up too fast. Others felt that way too. I know you don't want the tourney to run all night but players should get more than 3 hours of play for $150.
* Kids. There were at least a couple young teenagers playing. I don't know why but I'm not comfortable with that.
* Soft play. It seemed to me a couple of the players, who were obvious friends, played very softly against each other when they were heads-up in a hand. Basically checking from the flop to showdown with hands like trips once and a flush another time. I'm not the only one that noticed this. Is this acceptable?
* Security. The venue did not seem particularly secure to me. Most people would probably say "no big deal" but I am paranoid.
Will I play there again? Probably not for a while. My game is just not up to the level of play here. For me right now, my time and money are better spent learning and playing tourneys online. It was an interesting experience. I'm sure one day I'll venture back.
3 of those kids were at the final table, my only thought would be that if the parents werent ok with them playing, may decide to try to stop it.
But I do agree with it being a great tournament, and I will be back on Sunday.
You may know that I run a smaller version of these games on university campuses, but without taking a rake. Our games are a little more simple - no food provided, although it is available there at a 'poker' discount. No dealers are provided, but people who have been knocked out usually sit in and deal as the game progresses - maybe trying to make a tip - I dunno.
So far, for what it is, people are happy with it. For this upcoming game (13th) I have changed the format from rebuys to a single reload after an hour. Less bingo, but I have raised the stakes to keep the prize pool similar to what people expect. Similar blind structures though. 25/50 doubling every 30 mins. Chip count to start is $2500 and the reload is $2000.
I guess I am wondering, would a game with a $60 buy in one time, with a $30 reload suffer from not having food and dealers, but all the $$$ goes into the prize pool?
Would players still be interested in helping out a little to keep the events rake free? Or am I better off taking some off the top for costs, but then you get a fancier tournament. I lean towards keeping it simple, but I wanted some feedback. Where's the value for a player. Ironic as it may seem, I hate playing in poker tourneys
Cheers.
I don't ask that in a mean way but the people pkrfce9 was talking about didn't look look like they were a day over 12, one was i know cause he drove them there.
If you were one of them understand the uncomfort likely comes not cause your good or bad poker players, but in many ways seeing 'kids' play the game you kind of having this corrupting feeling.
Myself my mind says: what are poker players doing, creating a generation of gamblers (forget the whole skill vs. gambling argument) ... and getting them really started at an early age. you really start to feel a bit of guilt, but that's only me. So while you guys can play and maybe outplay older players i would still even in a private game rather not see a 12 year old.
I think the "corrupting their morals" angle may be valid. This is a substantial chunk of change for a kid - at least I hope it is. If they lose, does this mean they don't eat lunch for a month? I really don't want to be part of that. Are we breeding poker addicts? I don't care how old someone is - I don't want to be playing against someone who is in way over their head.
I was also thinking if the kids' parents didn't know about it and then found out, this could set the stage for a police raid one day based on a parent's complaint. This is something I'm not too keen on.
Finally, the less experience someone has, the more likely there will be rules violations. I know I heard someone complain about a string bet. This is not strictly related to young people - I'm fairly inexperienced in B&M games myself. The less mature a person is, the more likely their behaviour will be inappropriate. Not that I witnessed any of that on Sunday. Then again, just look at Phil Hellmuth...
you KNOW there are parenst out there that are going to give rediculous complaints to the police, and then the police are going to make our poker events disappear.
here is an example:
i am an avid dirtbiker. i love to ride trails on my dirtbikes with family and so on because it's soemthing i enjoy as a safe way to pass the time. there is nothing wrong with it as long as you are being responsible right? WELL, some kid wasnt being responsible when he was riding and sued the city of cambridge about 20 years back. and won danmit!!! now it is strictly illegal and strictly enforced in the K-W area. you cant find anywhere to ride within 150 kilometres of K-W (that i'm aware of). so where are all the responsible riders supposed to ride now that one irresponsible rider fucked everything up????
.....and where are all the responsible poker players going to play once some irresponsible kid gets in over his, or her head and complains to their hyperactive parents??
thanks,
johnny
I'm sure your play is great, and i understand the effect of TV ... heck i'm a tv convert who came to poker, but you have to realize that you have a greater chance of some kids parent coming across this huge poker bankroll and finding out from their kid how they got it. having parents who are worried calling the cops etc...
i also as stated just have some personal moral issues, i really do feel like as poker players were assisting younger players to get into the game without fully understanding the ramifications of it. This emotion is partially because in my younger days i was a gambler of sorts and i know that if i had been exposed to poker at that age in the way that it's available today ... things really could have gotten out of hand for me.
So while i'm sure you and your friends are more responsible and we aren't your parents, i hope you understand why people may get uncomfortable also, and this has nothing to do with us not respecting your skill and ability
i got no worries with an 18 or 20 year old. If your old enough to smoke, nearly drink, die for your country and wrap a car around a light post ... by all means check raise to your hearts content.
that is hilarious.
In an online card room, there is no way to be sure how old everyone is. along with online porn. an underage kid can look at porn all he or she wants to (well thats what a friend told me..haha). but an underage kid cant make his way into a strip club to watch some boobies just liek he cant go into a casino and play poker. (i knwo it hapens sometimes though, but not often right?)
i was playing in a small hoem game last night and there was someone 18 years old playing. i just felt uincomfortable man, sorry
keep it above 19 please.
thanks,
johnny
stp
man i'm bored today...
Aces- I was sitting to the dealers Right , inbetween Dick and the Dealer. Dick also put me out with his Diamond Flush :mad:
Personally I dont care about the young guys being there. They played great, conducted themselves great. Actually i saw a few older guys who acted like 12 :P
Anywho, I'll be there Sunday again. Hope to see some of you there.
I will be there next Sunday! I don't care if a green goblin shows up, it was a great event and next time I will protect my stack with a doze of patiance...
-DC
Red satin jackets!
T-shirts and/or hats that say CTU.
ScottyZ
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I'm just being silly... It should say "pokerforum" of course.
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.
.
.
Wait, we don't have time to get them made. How about everyone ties a red bandana around their thigh?
Wat dat?
Counter Terrorism Unit.
A (fictional) counter-terror organization central to the TV series "24".
ScottyZ
better than going with Red Satin underwear
psssst ... man can you see what colour your neighbours underwear is, i think he's part of my group
... neigbour gives you an odd look, looks down at his cards sees 27o goes all-in, doesn't rebuy and runs out of the room.
I had suggested that I knew some people who might produce them but I think the minimums are high to get it done - someone else mentioned that they could get it done too.
Although this is not quite the right forum to discuss in, should we revisit the idea of forum-wear for identity purposes (and let's face it, the coolness factor)?
Food and registration is at 2pm and the tourney starts at 3pm. Usually finishes by 8pm and then we have some live games.
How about just postin your Picture on the Pokerforum.ca player profile or a different thread.
Or better yet, we can all go to Mark (DickHertz) for introductions as he's prob met more forum players than anyone else