Sigh simple brainless answer im not trying to be critical. If there really bad beats post the bloody hand. How the hell can we tell by a screenshot on the river. In most forums this thread would be locked.
Sigh simple brainless answer im not trying to be critical. If there really bad beats post the bloody hand. How the hell can we tell by a screenshot on the river. In most forums this thread would be locked.
New guy's right...
My first thought seeing these results were "well, how did we get here"?
Results:
SB had 3, 3 (full house, threes over sixes).
UTG had A, A (two pair, Aces and sixes).
Hero had 5, 4 (straight, six high).
Outcome: SB won $240.71
Results:
Hero had 5, 4 (full house, fours over fives).
SB had A, A (two pair, Aces and fours).
BB had Q, Q (full house, Queens over fours).
Outcome: BB won $158.89
Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K 1 fold, MP bets $1.50, Hero raises $5, 2 folds, BB raises $11.50, MP calls $10.50, Hero raises $100.25 (All-In), BB calls $46.67 (All-In), MP calls $29.74 (All-In)
Flop: ($159.33) 8, 9, 8(3 players, 3 all-in)
Turn: ($159.33) 7(3 players, 3 all-in)
River: ($159.33) 3(3 players, 3 all-in)
Total pot: $159.33
Results:
BB had A, A (two pair, Aces and eights).
MP had 10, 10 (two pair, tens and eights).
Hero had K, K (two pair, Kings and eights).
Outcome: BB won $156.33
The first hand (AKdd v 67dd): Not a bad beat, AK vs 67 is only about 63% favorite. It's a cooler hand to be sure though.
Second hand (QQv33): Yea, that was bad.
Third hand (AA v 45ss v 33): Not sure if you're saying Hero (45) took the bad beat, because he played the hand very poorly. AA also went broke with one pair, played (very) poorly. 33 played it alright if not excellent.
Fourth hand (AA v QQ v 45hh): Not a bad beat. Hero min raised (eww), then got re-raised, and THAT got called, and still called (okay, don't HATE that), but then was behind on every street. There was a STUPID amount of strength being shown in this hand by the "villains"
Fifth hand (AA v KK v TT): Again, not a bad beat, KK < AA, and AA held up. Cooler hand sure.
i agree alot with dr, the first hand, those things happen, thats poker, im pretty sure almost everyone on this forum would give it all away to 67....2nd you were against a calling station, if you had any read, doubling your flop bet perhaps with 14 in the pot, maybe betting 14, you had control but qq is probably crushing his range, take the small pot and no showdown, 3rd you got it in good, he didnt, but whod lay down a set there, he sucked out so be it, 80% or better its yours, 4th hes totally right, your against 2 pairs for sure, he hit a set, AA or KK range perhaps, but QQ is quite possible, you getting crushed, its probably no fence an easy preflop fold against 2 OOP players showing huge strength!, as for last, you have KK at the wrong time really is all
sounds like a slight case of the running bad, probably everything but the 4th hand, you did whats expected, in everything but 4 and 5, your the huge favourite, these things happen, keep calm and not steam it off, heh or come play and steam it off when im at the table
Only the second hand is really a bad beat... and even then, I think I ran the math and the 33 hand was never less than like 10% to win, which isn't all that uncommon.
PokerStars Game #56445142994: Tournament #403010647, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2011/01/23 15:59:51 ET
Table '403010647 69' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: dalix88 (4000 in chips)
Seat 2: Loizos83 (4000 in chips)
Seat 3: orlymente? (4000 in chips)
Seat 4: _pauL€FauL_ (4000 in chips)
Seat 5: Maracugina (4000 in chips)
Seat 6: BPV3 (4000 in chips)
Seat 7: Mrcaimann (2000 in chips)
Seat 8: mMagic_cards (4000 in chips)
Seat 9: zachjackdad (4000 in chips)
Loizos83: posts small blind 10
orlymente?: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to zachjackdad
_pauL€FauL_: raises 60 to 80
Maracugina: folds
BPV3: folds
Mrcaimann: folds
mMagic_cards: folds
zachjackdad: calls 80
dalix88: folds
Loizos83: calls 70
orlymente?: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qd 8d 8s]
Loizos83: checks
_pauL€FauL_: bets 143
zachjackdad: raises 197 to 340
Loizos83: folds
_pauL€FauL_: calls 197
*** TURN *** [Qd 8d 8s] [Kd]
_pauL€FauL_: checks
zachjackdad: bets 460
_pauL€FauL_: raises 980 to 1440
zachjackdad: raises 2140 to 3580 and is all-in
_pauL€FauL_: calls 2140 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Qd 8d 8s Kd] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
_pauL€FauL_: shows [Qs Qc] (a full house, Queens full of Eights)
zachjackdad: shows (a Royal Flush)
zachjackdad collected 8100 from pot
_pauL€FauL_ re-buys and receives 4000 chips for $20.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8100 | Rake 0
Board [Qd 8d 8s Kd Jd]
Seat 1: dalix88 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Loizos83 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: orlymente? (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: _pauL€FauL_ showed [Qs Qc] and lost with a full house, Queens full of Eights
Seat 5: Maracugina folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: BPV3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Mrcaimann folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: mMagic_cards folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: zachjackdad showed and won (8100) with a Royal Flush
[/thread]
[/forum of bad beats forever and ever amen]
p.s. a friend of mine dished out this bad beat. I have a feeling the other player (a) quit poker or (b) had to buy a new laptop / computer monitor after that hand.
PokerStars Game #56445142994: Tournament #403010647, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2011/01/23 15:59:51 ET
Table '403010647 69' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: dalix88 (4000 in chips)
Seat 2: Loizos83 (4000 in chips)
Seat 3: orlymente? (4000 in chips)
Seat 4: _pauL€FauL_ (4000 in chips)
Seat 5: Maracugina (4000 in chips)
Seat 6: BPV3 (4000 in chips)
Seat 7: Mrcaimann (2000 in chips)
Seat 8: mMagic_cards (4000 in chips)
Seat 9: zachjackdad (4000 in chips)
Loizos83: posts small blind 10
orlymente?: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to zachjackdad
_pauL€FauL_: raises 60 to 80
Maracugina: folds
BPV3: folds
Mrcaimann: folds
mMagic_cards: folds
zachjackdad: calls 80
dalix88: folds
Loizos83: calls 70
orlymente?: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qd 8d 8s]
Loizos83: checks
_pauL€FauL_: bets 143
zachjackdad: raises 197 to 340
Loizos83: folds
_pauL€FauL_: calls 197
*** TURN *** [Qd 8d 8s] [Kd]
_pauL€FauL_: checks
zachjackdad: bets 460
_pauL€FauL_: raises 980 to 1440
zachjackdad: raises 2140 to 3580 and is all-in
_pauL€FauL_: calls 2140 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Qd 8d 8s Kd] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
_pauL€FauL_: shows [Qs Qc] (a full house, Queens full of Eights)
zachjackdad: shows (a Royal Flush)
zachjackdad collected 8100 from pot
_pauL€FauL_ re-buys and receives 4000 chips for $20.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8100 | Rake 0
Board [Qd 8d 8s Kd Jd]
Seat 1: dalix88 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Loizos83 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: orlymente? (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: _pauL€FauL_ showed [Qs Qc] and lost with a full house, Queens full of Eights
Seat 5: Maracugina folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: BPV3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Mrcaimann folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: mMagic_cards folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: zachjackdad showed and won (8100) with a Royal Flush
[/thread]
[/forum of bad beats forever and ever amen]
p.s. a friend of mine dished out this bad beat. I have a feeling the other player (a) quit poker or (b) had to buy a new laptop / computer monitor after that hand.
And even when I told him I had KK.... I've never seen anyone call for that much more than was in the pot as an 80/20 dog (like $6. before I shoved for his remaining $50) AND told him. Was trying to be nice since I knew he was on permanent tilt... lol.. I think he transferred that tilt to me...
I have a long run of good luck with the 10's. I can say 95% of the time I win with them and I would call again if I had the chance.
Same 10 mins later when I hit the boat on the turn and Quads on the river.
Regardless if someone says I have the Kings, Aces or Queens in their Hand.
I may have had a shitty run of luck lately but I still have lots of Gamble in me.
The first hand (AKdd v 67dd): Not a bad beat, AK vs 67 is only about 63% favorite. It's a cooler hand to be sure though.
Second hand (QQv33): Yea, that was bad.
Third hand (AA v 45ss v 33): Not sure if you're saying Hero (45) took the bad beat, because he played the hand very poorly. AA also went broke with one pair, played (very) poorly. 33 played it alright if not excellent.
Fourth hand (AA v QQ v 45hh): Not a bad beat. Hero min raised (eww), then got re-raised, and THAT got called, and still called (okay, don't HATE that), but then was behind on every street. There was a STUPID amount of strength being shown in this hand by the "villains"
Fifth hand (AA v KK v TT): Again, not a bad beat, KK < AA, and AA held up. Cooler hand sure.
Mark
Again yes your correct there not bad beats as such but tremendous bad luck in a short space of time.
If you think i played either 45 hand badly you obviously dont play much cash poker at any decent level.There may be minor mistakes but in general there fantastic spots to get money in.
I have a long run of good luck with the 10's. I can say 95% of the time I win with them and I would call again if I had the chance.
Same 10 mins later when I hit the boat on the turn and Quads on the river.
Regardless if someone says I have the Kings, Aces or Queens in their Hand.
I may have had a shitty run of luck lately but I still have lots of Gamble in me.
HVEE...
Never complain about run bad or bad beats again if this is truly your mentality.
Again yes your correct there not bad beats as such but tremendous bad luck in a short space of time.
If you think i played either 45 hand badly you obviously dont play much cash poker at any decent level.There may be minor mistakes but in general there fantastic spots to get money in.
If you don't think you played either 45 hand badly, you're not right.
If you don't think you played either 45 hand badly, you're not right.
Mark
Please explain. It's not that I disagree. I just want to understand another line of thinking on this compared to my own. Personally, the 1st hand was laying the right odds on the flop and then got it in with the nuts, just a bad river. 2nd time, probably got a little too happy with it on that flop. Even if you put your opponent on QQ+ (which is a super narrow range), I don't think you're getting in that far ahead. Then again, I'm a poor cash player at best.
That's not my total line of thinking. A lot of pros have a hand that they play regularly. Why? cause it's there good luck hand and they make a lot of money off of it.
Everybody plays hands differently. Who is sitting at the table and how you are running at the time dictates you play.
Like now were I am trying to get out of a tailspin, a Lot of hands, SHIT HANDS I would normally play in a cash game , I am now folding
The shit hands as I call them usually win large pots . No one ever sees it coming. 5-8os 2-2 etc.
2 examples now. Playing 2.20 90 runner sng
Dealt 10 10 raised 1 shoved his 4 K into the pot
I called He shows Q-J spades. Hit my trips on the flop and doubled up
3K gtd I busted out 2-7 d dealt to me
Hit trips on the flop 6-7-7 shoved and buddy called with 10-10
Hit his 3rd 10 on the river
Please explain. It's not that I disagree. I just want to understand another line of thinking on this compared to my own. Personally, the 1st hand was laying the right odds on the flop and then got it in with the nuts, just a bad river. 2nd time, probably got a little too happy with it on that flop. Even if you put your opponent on QQ+ (which is a super narrow range), I don't think you're getting in that far ahead. Then again, I'm a poor cash player at best.
No you make a perfect point but the villian with AA is pretty fishy and is 100% of the time stacking off with Overpairs and AQ. He bets $9 bb calls with a pretty wide range i assume i have to raise to $21 to isolate fish and stack him.This is 100% correct so far anyone who thinks this is bad is not a winner at any level of cash online.
Lets just recall that we are 3 handed i should mention villian with QQ is a new player to me and im a reg on the site so there is a high probability he can be bad.
Ok the point where the hand gets sketchy is when sb shoves all in and bb calls.There is $120 in the pot and $30 to call im sure im good against sb near 90% of the time. BB is unknown to me but if anyone can suggest folding is good i think its pretty LOL.
At least i have explained my thinking hope others can do the same. For what its worth cerberus its probably a marginal spot when bb calls but im pretty sure we are priced in and considering we cant really put a range on bb its 100% a call.
That's not my total line of thinking. A lot of pros have a hand that they play regularly. Why? cause it's there good luck hand and they make a lot of money off of it.
HVEE to be honest man thats shite no Pro player does this trust me. They may if there having fun in a tournament that is not important. The pros that i know (online grinders) would never think like this.
Im not trying to have a go at you or anything as a place like this should be a place to learn and hopefully a few years down the road you will read back on these things and feel stupid. This is my experiences with online forums as i look back at posts from 3 years ago and think my god i was a fish.
POINT A: OKAY HERE, THE BET IS $4.87, MAKING THE POT $11.37, YOU HAVE LEGIT 8 OUTS, MEANING YOU HAVE ABOUT A 23% CHANCE OF WINNING AGAINST TOP PAIR / OVERPAIR, WHICH MEANS YOU NEED TO GET JUST ABOUT 3:1 ON YOUR MONEY, YOU'RE GETTING 2.3:1 ON YOUR MONEY - BAD CALL. ADD IN THE FACT THAT YOU'RE SANDWICHED BETWEEN ANOTHER PLAYER, AND COULD GET RE-RAISED, AND IT MAKES THE CALL EVEN WORSE, FACTORING IN THAT HE HAD A SET, AND YOUR ODDS DROP TO 20.5%, NEEDING CLOSER TO 5:1 ODDS
POINT B: $43.13 BET INTO A POT OF 21.11, IT'S EASY SINCE YOU'VE GOT THE NUTS HERE CLEARLY, BUT YOUR CALL MAKES IT NOW A POT OF $107.37, WHERE IF YOU HAD PUSHED FOR YOUR EXTRA (HIS EXTRA) $32.74, IT'S A POT OF 140.11, AND HE HAS TO CALL $75.87, GIVING HIM CLOSE TO 2:1 ODDS, VS. THE 2.5:1 ODDS HE'S GETTING ON YOUR FLAT. HE OPTS TO PUSH HERE, WHICH AGAIN, EASY DECISION FOR YOU, BUT YOU MISSED THE CHANCE TO HAVE HIM MAKE A BIGGER MISTAKE.
River: ($243.44) 6(3 players, 3 all-in)
Total pot: $243.44
Results:
SB had 3, 3 (full house, threes over sixes).
UTG had A, A (two pair, Aces and sixes).
Hero had 5, 4 (straight, six high).
Outcome: SB won $240.71
POINT B: LIKE THE RE-RAISE, IT'S AGGRESSIVE, AND THAT'S ALWAYS GOOD. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, AFTER YOUR 2ND RAISE, IT WENT 3RD RAISE AND 4TH RAISE.... NOW YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT BEING POT COMMITTED, BUT WHAT ELSE ARE THESE GUYS DOING THIS WITH? THE BOARD IS Q HIGH, WITH TWO SPADES CONNECTED. I CAN BELIEVE ONE GUY GETTING STUPID WITH AN OVERPAIR, BUT TWO? JUST AN OVERPAIR? NOT WITH THAT MUCH STRENGTH, IT'S EITHER A SET SOMEWHERE, OR MAYBE COMBO STRAIGHT/FLUSH DRAW, WHICH IF THAT'S THE CASE MAKES YOU EITHER DRAWING DEAD OR 38% TO WIN THE HAND (AGAINST 67SS +AA).
Turn: ($158.16) 2(3 players, 3 all-in)
River: ($158.16) 4(3 players, 3 all-in)
Total pot: $158.16
Results:
Hero had 5, 4 (full house, fours over fives).
SB had A, A (two pair, Aces and fours).
BB had Q, Q (full house, Queens over fours).
Outcome: BB won $158.89
Okay, someone asked me to clarify on the 45 hands I thought were played badly.... This quotes HORRIBLY bad, and I'm hoping I'll edit it right...
So, the first 45 hand (45 v 33 v AA), your call on the flop you did not have the odds by a long shot. Re-raising here is fine IMO, but so many players make bad-odds calls and then mutter something about "implied odds", which is rarely correct. In this case, it was correct for implied, but you were against much stronger than you thought.
Second hand, this is an example of why every poker book tells people to start super tight. Suited connectors are great for post-flop play, but in this case, they were showing so much strength, but you didn't believe them, and put all your money in dead.
One saying I heard early in my poker learnings was that people are either motivated by greed or fear... I think you got greedy both times here.
POINT A: OKAY HERE, THE BET IS $4.87, MAKING THE POT $11.37, YOU HAVE LEGIT 8 OUTS, MEANING YOU HAVE ABOUT A 23% CHANCE OF WINNING AGAINST TOP PAIR / OVERPAIR, WHICH MEANS YOU NEED TO GET JUST ABOUT 3:1 ON YOUR MONEY, YOU'RE GETTING 2.3:1 ON YOUR MONEY - BAD CALL. ADD IN THE FACT THAT YOU'RE SANDWICHED BETWEEN ANOTHER PLAYER, AND COULD GET RE-RAISED, AND IT MAKES THE CALL EVEN WORSE, FACTORING IN THAT HE HAD A SET, AND YOUR ODDS DROP TO 20.5%, NEEDING CLOSER TO 5:1 ODDS
POINT B: $43.13 BET INTO A POT OF 21.11, IT'S EASY SINCE YOU'VE GOT THE NUTS HERE CLEARLY, BUT YOUR CALL MAKES IT NOW A POT OF $107.37, WHERE IF YOU HAD PUSHED FOR YOUR EXTRA (HIS EXTRA) $32.74, IT'S A POT OF 140.11, AND HE HAS TO CALL $75.87, GIVING HIM CLOSE TO 2:1 ODDS, VS. THE 2.5:1 ODDS HE'S GETTING ON YOUR FLAT. HE OPTS TO PUSH HERE, WHICH AGAIN, EASY DECISION FOR YOU, BUT YOU MISSED THE CHANCE TO HAVE HIM MAKE A BIGGER MISTAKE.
River: ($243.44) 6(3 players, 3 all-in)
Total pot: $243.44
Results:
SB had 3, 3 (full house, threes over sixes).
UTG had A, A (two pair, Aces and sixes).
Hero had 5, 4 (straight, six high).
Outcome: SB won $240.71
POINT B: LIKE THE RE-RAISE, IT'S AGGRESSIVE, AND THAT'S ALWAYS GOOD. BUT THE PROBLEM IS, AFTER YOUR 2ND RAISE, IT WENT 3RD RAISE AND 4TH RAISE.... NOW YOU CAN SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT BEING POT COMMITTED, BUT WHAT ELSE ARE THESE GUYS DOING THIS WITH? THE BOARD IS Q HIGH, WITH TWO SPADES CONNECTED. I CAN BELIEVE ONE GUY GETTING STUPID WITH AN OVERPAIR, BUT TWO? JUST AN OVERPAIR? NOT WITH THAT MUCH STRENGTH, IT'S EITHER A SET SOMEWHERE, OR MAYBE COMBO STRAIGHT/FLUSH DRAW, WHICH IF THAT'S THE CASE MAKES YOU EITHER DRAWING DEAD OR 38% TO WIN THE HAND (AGAINST 67SS +AA).
Turn: ($158.16) 2(3 players, 3 all-in)
River: ($158.16) 4(3 players, 3 all-in)
Total pot: $158.16
Results:
Hero had 5, 4 (full house, fours over fives).
SB had A, A (two pair, Aces and fours).
BB had Q, Q (full house, Queens over fours).
Outcome: BB won $158.89
Okay, someone asked me to clarify on the 45 hands I thought were played badly.... This quotes HORRIBLY bad, and I'm hoping I'll edit it right...
So, the first 45 hand (45 v 33 v AA), your call on the flop you did not have the odds by a long shot. Re-raising here is fine IMO, but so many players make bad-odds calls and then mutter something about "implied odds", which is rarely correct. In this case, it was correct for implied, but you were against much stronger than you thought.
Second hand, this is an example of why every poker book tells people to start super tight. Suited connectors are great for post-flop play, but in this case, they were showing so much strength, but you didn't believe them, and put all your money in dead.
One saying I heard early in my poker learnings was that people are either motivated by greed or fear... I think you got greedy both times here.
Mark
Thanks Mark! I knew my math wasn't working when I looked at this.
Point A - Makes no sense ever hear of implied odds jesus christ im nearly getting the correct odds without implied odds. You cant judge results when considering ranges the ranges are a lot wider when your unknown. results based thinking imo.
Point B - fair point accepted
Hand 2
Point A - Playing the hand any other way is terrible. Im raising 60%+ of my hands on the button 3 handed.
Point B - I accept its marginal but if i can get in a be good 25% of the time then its a good move. The smallest edges are essential in this game and i felt this spot was marginal but ok.
Im good most of the time against the fish and the unknown can just be bad its to hard to call. bad players are unsure how light to get it in when shorthanded they can make big mistakes.
I appreciate a detailed response and its good to argue out points. May ia sk have you ever played a large sample of 6 max cash? You sound like a good player but you really dont sound like you have played 6 max cash forgive me if im wrong.
Point A - Makes no sense ever hear of implied odds jesus christ im nearly getting the correct odds without implied odds. You cant judge results when considering ranges the ranges are a lot wider when your unknown. results based thinking imo.
Umm... I mentioned implied odds in the bottom part of my post. I think that there's a huge over use of implied odds to justify bad play quite a bit though. And still, with a player behind you still to act, I think it's a bad play.
Point B - fair point accepted
Hand 2
Point A - Playing the hand any other way is terrible. Im raising 60%+ of my hands on the button 3 handed.
Point B - I accept its marginal but if i can get in a be good 25% of the time then its a good move. The smallest edges are essential in this game and i felt this spot was marginal but ok.
Im good most of the time against the fish and the unknown can just be bad its to hard to call. bad players are unsure how light to get it in when shorthanded they can make big mistakes.
Oh no, you don't get to have it both ways here! You say "the smallest edges are essential in this game...", and then say that "against the fish... bad players"? If they're that bad, then your edges aren't small.
I appreciate a detailed response and its good to argue out points. May ia sk have you ever played a large sample of 6 max cash? You sound like a good player but you really dont sound like you have played 6 max cash forgive me if im wrong.
Hey, I like to argue too (apparently too much), I like to think I'm a good player, but get proven wrong now and again. As for 6 max, I've played a fair amount, not sure what you'd consider a large sample? I also play a wide range of games for tourney and cash, limit, NL, PL, HE, OM, etc etc...
If you think i played either 45 hand badly you obviously dont play much cash poker at any decent level.There may be minor mistakes but in general there fantastic spots to get money in.
They will get it one day. Chalk it up to lack of experience. Don't see anything wrong with getting your money in with the nuts on the turn. Personally I prefer 56 suited, but that's just me. No consideration for implied odds there Marky?? Personally, I might raise in that position. Calling is for pussys.
Second 45suited, for $50 I get my chips in the middle no problem. In a bigger game, I would be more fearful of getting counterfeited by the river. Bottom two pair is always a tough call with so much action from two players.
Hey, I like to argue too (apparently too much), I like to think I'm a good player, but get proven wrong now and again. As for 6 max, I've played a fair amount, not sure what you'd consider a large sample? I also play a wide range of games for tourney and cash, limit, NL, PL, HE, OM, etc etc...
Mark
To be honest 100k hands is a decent sample to understand game flow. Dont get me wrong the points you made are fine but i think your pretty much wrong. I could post it on 2+2 but id be flamed for it been a bad beat hand not a hand that is worth discussing.
Yeah it's 6 max. I don't find that HVEE played this all that badly.
First hand on a rainbow flop like that, yes it would have been best if HVEE was acting last but you can't imagine someone ever c-betting a non-scary flop like this ever? You SPECIFICALLY put this guy on an overpair/set? If the guy behind folds and the first dude has air, you don't think that HVEE might possibly be able to take this hand away on the turn, in position?
Other hand.
Dude reraises out of sb. On the flop sb bets most of the pot. BB flats. Unless you SPECIFICALLY put someone on QQ, I'm looking to get my stack in here. You can't see these two guys having overpr, AQ or flush draw? Hero goes to $21, sb reraises for another $20 and bb goes allin for another buck on top. You are folding your last $25 in a $135 pot because you SPECIFICALLY put one of these two guys on a set?
I've twice been chastised for not mentioning implied odds, and also someone said that raising would have been better, when I mentioned both those things in my original analysis of the hands.
I have a long run of good luck with the 10's. I can say 95% of the time I win with them and I would call again if I had the chance.
Same 10 mins later when I hit the boat on the turn and Quads on the river.
Regardless if someone says I have the Kings, Aces or Queens in their Hand.
I may have had a shitty run of luck lately but I still have lots of Gamble in me.
Fuck. This post needs more love.
I am 100%, without a doubt positive, that you actually believe this.
Comments
Sigh simple brainless answer im not trying to be critical. If there really bad beats post the bloody hand. How the hell can we tell by a screenshot on the river. In most forums this thread would be locked.
New guy's right...
My first thought seeing these results were "well, how did we get here"?
Mark
Once again im not a negative type poster but its just more positive for everyone involved.
Here is a true bad beat.
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($42.46)
UTG ($139.65)
MP ($83.35)
Hero (CO) ($101.50)
Button ($168.83)
SB ($29)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A
2 folds, Hero bets $3, Button calls $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2
Flop: ($9.50) 4
BB checks, Hero bets $5, Button raises $15, 1 fold, Hero calls $10
Turn: ($39.50) 8
Hero checks, Button bets $17, Hero raises $43, Button calls $26
River: ($125.50) 2
Hero bets $40.50 (All-In), Button calls $40.50
Total pot: $206.50
Results:
Button had 7
Hero had A
Outcome: Button won $203.50
Villian is massive fish
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($58.35)
BB ($31.35)
UTG ($91.15)
Hero (MP) ($77.50)
CO ($55.80)
Button ($60.35)
Preflop: Hero is MP with Q
UTG bets $2, Hero raises $7, 4 folds, UTG calls $5
Flop: ($15.50) 2
UTG checks, Hero bets $9, UTG calls $9
Turn: ($33.50) 4
UTG checks, Hero bets $22, UTG calls $22
River: ($77.50) 6
UTG checks, Hero bets $18, UTG raises $40, Hero calls $21.50 (All-In)
Total pot: $156.50
Results:
UTG had 3
Hero had Q
Outcome: UTG won $154
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($96.74)
BB ($93.71)
UTG ($50)
Hero (MP) ($96.47)
Button ($53.03)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 5
UTG bets $2, Hero calls $2, 1 fold, SB calls $1.75, 1 fold
Flop: ($6.50) 3
SB checks, UTG bets $4.87, Hero calls $4.87, SB calls $4.87
Turn: ($21.11) 6
SB bets $14, UTG raises $43.13 (All-In), Hero calls $43.13, SB raises $75.87 (All-In), Hero calls $46.47 (All-In)
River: ($243.44) 6
Total pot: $243.44
Results:
SB had 3
UTG had A
Hero had 5
Outcome: SB won $240.71
Talk about running into the top of someones range
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (3 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
BB ($56.81)
Hero (Button) ($50)
SB ($54.08)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 5
Hero bets $1, SB raises $3.75, BB calls $3.50, Hero calls $3
Flop: ($12) Q
SB bets $9, BB calls $9, Hero raises $21, SB raises $41.08 (All-In), BB raises $43.81 (All-In), Hero calls $25 (All-In)
Turn: ($158.16) 2
River: ($158.16) 4
Total pot: $158.16
Results:
Hero had 5
SB had A
BB had Q
Outcome: BB won $158.89
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
UTG ($106.47)
MP ($41.74)
Hero (CO) ($105.25)
Button ($50)
SB ($50)
BB ($58.67)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K
1 fold, MP bets $1.50, Hero raises $5, 2 folds, BB raises $11.50, MP calls $10.50, Hero raises $100.25 (All-In), BB calls $46.67 (All-In), MP calls $29.74 (All-In)
Flop: ($159.33) 8
Turn: ($159.33) 7
River: ($159.33) 3
Total pot: $159.33
Results:
BB had A
MP had 10
Hero had K
Outcome: BB won $156.33
The first hand (AKdd v 67dd): Not a bad beat, AK vs 67 is only about 63% favorite. It's a cooler hand to be sure though.
Second hand (QQv33): Yea, that was bad.
Third hand (AA v 45ss v 33): Not sure if you're saying Hero (45) took the bad beat, because he played the hand very poorly. AA also went broke with one pair, played (very) poorly. 33 played it alright if not excellent.
Fourth hand (AA v QQ v 45hh): Not a bad beat. Hero min raised (eww), then got re-raised, and THAT got called, and still called (okay, don't HATE that), but then was behind on every street. There was a STUPID amount of strength being shown in this hand by the "villains"
Fifth hand (AA v KK v TT): Again, not a bad beat, KK < AA, and AA held up. Cooler hand sure.
Mark
EZ game . . . by "watching the days go by . . ."
sounds like a slight case of the running bad, probably everything but the 4th hand, you did whats expected, in everything but 4 and 5, your the huge favourite, these things happen, keep calm and not steam it off, heh or come play and steam it off when im at the table
Only the second hand is really a bad beat... and even then, I think I ran the math and the 33 hand was never less than like 10% to win, which isn't all that uncommon.
Mark
PokerStars Game #56445142994: Tournament #403010647, $10+$1 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2011/01/23 15:59:51 ET
Table '403010647 69' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: dalix88 (4000 in chips)
Seat 2: Loizos83 (4000 in chips)
Seat 3: orlymente? (4000 in chips)
Seat 4: _pauL€FauL_ (4000 in chips)
Seat 5: Maracugina (4000 in chips)
Seat 6: BPV3 (4000 in chips)
Seat 7: Mrcaimann (2000 in chips)
Seat 8: mMagic_cards (4000 in chips)
Seat 9: zachjackdad (4000 in chips)
Loizos83: posts small blind 10
orlymente?: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to zachjackdad
_pauL€FauL_: raises 60 to 80
Maracugina: folds
BPV3: folds
Mrcaimann: folds
mMagic_cards: folds
zachjackdad: calls 80
dalix88: folds
Loizos83: calls 70
orlymente?: folds
*** FLOP *** [Qd 8d 8s]
Loizos83: checks
_pauL€FauL_: bets 143
zachjackdad: raises 197 to 340
Loizos83: folds
_pauL€FauL_: calls 197
*** TURN *** [Qd 8d 8s] [Kd]
_pauL€FauL_: checks
zachjackdad: bets 460
_pauL€FauL_: raises 980 to 1440
zachjackdad: raises 2140 to 3580 and is all-in
_pauL€FauL_: calls 2140 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [Qd 8d 8s Kd] [Jd]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
_pauL€FauL_: shows [Qs Qc] (a full house, Queens full of Eights)
zachjackdad: shows (a Royal Flush)
zachjackdad collected 8100 from pot
_pauL€FauL_ re-buys and receives 4000 chips for $20.00
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8100 | Rake 0
Board [Qd 8d 8s Kd Jd]
Seat 1: dalix88 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Loizos83 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: orlymente? (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: _pauL€FauL_ showed [Qs Qc] and lost with a full house, Queens full of Eights
Seat 5: Maracugina folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: BPV3 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Mrcaimann folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: mMagic_cards folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: zachjackdad showed and won (8100) with a Royal Flush
[/thread]
[/forum of bad beats forever and ever amen]
p.s. a friend of mine dished out this bad beat. I have a feeling the other player (a) quit poker or (b) had to buy a new laptop / computer monitor after that hand.
Ouch...
Yup, the worst it can be - perfect perfect.
Mark
I have a long run of good luck with the 10's. I can say 95% of the time I win with them and I would call again if I had the chance.
Same 10 mins later when I hit the boat on the turn and Quads on the river.
Regardless if someone says I have the Kings, Aces or Queens in their Hand.
I may have had a shitty run of luck lately but I still have lots of Gamble in me.
Again yes your correct there not bad beats as such but tremendous bad luck in a short space of time.
If you think i played either 45 hand badly you obviously dont play much cash poker at any decent level.There may be minor mistakes but in general there fantastic spots to get money in.
HVEE...
Never complain about run bad or bad beats again if this is truly your mentality.
Mark
If you don't think you played either 45 hand badly, you're not right.
Mark
Please explain. It's not that I disagree. I just want to understand another line of thinking on this compared to my own. Personally, the 1st hand was laying the right odds on the flop and then got it in with the nuts, just a bad river. 2nd time, probably got a little too happy with it on that flop. Even if you put your opponent on QQ+ (which is a super narrow range), I don't think you're getting in that far ahead. Then again, I'm a poor cash player at best.
OMG +1. HVEE, you're a nice guy, and I'm not trying to be mean, but your poker thinking is totally wrong. No wonder you take wild swings.
Everybody plays hands differently. Who is sitting at the table and how you are running at the time dictates you play.
Like now were I am trying to get out of a tailspin, a Lot of hands, SHIT HANDS I would normally play in a cash game , I am now folding
The shit hands as I call them usually win large pots . No one ever sees it coming. 5-8os 2-2 etc.
2 examples now. Playing 2.20 90 runner sng
Dealt 10 10 raised 1 shoved his 4 K into the pot
I called He shows Q-J spades. Hit my trips on the flop and doubled up
3K gtd I busted out 2-7 d dealt to me
Hit trips on the flop 6-7-7 shoved and buddy called with 10-10
Hit his 3rd 10 on the river
Care to elaborate ?
No you make a perfect point but the villian with AA is pretty fishy and is 100% of the time stacking off with Overpairs and AQ. He bets $9 bb calls with a pretty wide range i assume i have to raise to $21 to isolate fish and stack him.This is 100% correct so far anyone who thinks this is bad is not a winner at any level of cash online.
Lets just recall that we are 3 handed i should mention villian with QQ is a new player to me and im a reg on the site so there is a high probability he can be bad.
Ok the point where the hand gets sketchy is when sb shoves all in and bb calls.There is $120 in the pot and $30 to call im sure im good against sb near 90% of the time. BB is unknown to me but if anyone can suggest folding is good i think its pretty LOL.
At least i have explained my thinking hope others can do the same. For what its worth cerberus its probably a marginal spot when bb calls but im pretty sure we are priced in and considering we cant really put a range on bb its 100% a call.
HVEE to be honest man thats shite no Pro player does this trust me. They may if there having fun in a tournament that is not important. The pros that i know (online grinders) would never think like this.
Im not trying to have a go at you or anything as a place like this should be a place to learn and hopefully a few years down the road you will read back on these things and feel stupid. This is my experiences with online forums as i look back at posts from 3 years ago and think my god i was a fish.
Okay, someone asked me to clarify on the 45 hands I thought were played badly.... This quotes HORRIBLY bad, and I'm hoping I'll edit it right...
So, the first 45 hand (45 v 33 v AA), your call on the flop you did not have the odds by a long shot. Re-raising here is fine IMO, but so many players make bad-odds calls and then mutter something about "implied odds", which is rarely correct. In this case, it was correct for implied, but you were against much stronger than you thought.
Second hand, this is an example of why every poker book tells people to start super tight. Suited connectors are great for post-flop play, but in this case, they were showing so much strength, but you didn't believe them, and put all your money in dead.
One saying I heard early in my poker learnings was that people are either motivated by greed or fear... I think you got greedy both times here.
Mark
This thread has been here for almost 4 days and it took me until now to find nirvana....I shall want, no more!
Thanks Mark! I knew my math wasn't working when I looked at this.
Point A - Makes no sense ever hear of implied odds jesus christ im nearly getting the correct odds without implied odds. You cant judge results when considering ranges the ranges are a lot wider when your unknown. results based thinking imo.
Point B - fair point accepted
Hand 2
Point A - Playing the hand any other way is terrible. Im raising 60%+ of my hands on the button 3 handed.
Point B - I accept its marginal but if i can get in a be good 25% of the time then its a good move. The smallest edges are essential in this game and i felt this spot was marginal but ok.
Im good most of the time against the fish and the unknown can just be bad its to hard to call. bad players are unsure how light to get it in when shorthanded they can make big mistakes.
I appreciate a detailed response and its good to argue out points. May ia sk have you ever played a large sample of 6 max cash? You sound like a good player but you really dont sound like you have played 6 max cash forgive me if im wrong.
Hey, I like to argue too (apparently too much), I like to think I'm a good player, but get proven wrong now and again. As for 6 max, I've played a fair amount, not sure what you'd consider a large sample? I also play a wide range of games for tourney and cash, limit, NL, PL, HE, OM, etc etc...
Mark
They will get it one day. Chalk it up to lack of experience. Don't see anything wrong with getting your money in with the nuts on the turn. Personally I prefer 56 suited, but that's just me. No consideration for implied odds there Marky?? Personally, I might raise in that position. Calling is for pussys.
Second 45suited, for $50 I get my chips in the middle no problem. In a bigger game, I would be more fearful of getting counterfeited by the river. Bottom two pair is always a tough call with so much action from two players.
To be honest 100k hands is a decent sample to understand game flow. Dont get me wrong the points you made are fine but i think your pretty much wrong. I could post it on 2+2 but id be flamed for it been a bad beat hand not a hand that is worth discussing.
First hand on a rainbow flop like that, yes it would have been best if HVEE was acting last but you can't imagine someone ever c-betting a non-scary flop like this ever? You SPECIFICALLY put this guy on an overpair/set? If the guy behind folds and the first dude has air, you don't think that HVEE might possibly be able to take this hand away on the turn, in position?
Other hand.
Dude reraises out of sb. On the flop sb bets most of the pot. BB flats. Unless you SPECIFICALLY put someone on QQ, I'm looking to get my stack in here. You can't see these two guys having overpr, AQ or flush draw? Hero goes to $21, sb reraises for another $20 and bb goes allin for another buck on top. You are folding your last $25 in a $135 pot because you SPECIFICALLY put one of these two guys on a set?
I've twice been chastised for not mentioning implied odds, and also someone said that raising would have been better, when I mentioned both those things in my original analysis of the hands.
Reading - it's what the cool kids are doing.
Mark
Fuck. This post needs more love.
I am 100%, without a doubt positive, that you actually believe this.
This forum really should introduce a feature where you can thank posts