Best hand you've ever folded pre-flop
What's the best (holdem) hand you've ever folded pre-flop, and why?
Obviously this depends on the general poker setting (tournament vs. cash game, for example).
The best hand I've ever folded at a low-limit cash game pre-flop was JJ. It was typical Brantford 5-10 (very loose, very passive, especially pre-flop on both counts). I was 3rd UTG and it was raised UTG by a typical player, and then re-raised by a solid, somewhat straight-forward, tight player 2nd UTG. I mucked it, thinking at least one of then has a bigger pair, and even in a good case (for me), I'm probably up against at least one big Ace. More realistically, it's going to be me against something like QQ and AK where I'm an insane dog.
This also marked the first time I had to really *think* about a low-limit pre-flop decision. 8)
The board ended up being complete rags (rainbow, no ace or face) and the winner was AA from a player who was actually still to act *behind* me pre-flop (and capped it at 4 bets). The other pre-flop raisers didn't show.
I was dying to see their cards (which is allowed), but I won't normally do this unless I actually suspect collusion (has never happened), or sometimes I'll ask to see the bettor's (or raiser's) cards in situations where they are supposed to show first, but do not.
And pushing the wrong button online doesn't count, unless there's a funny reason why it happened.
ScottyZ
Obviously this depends on the general poker setting (tournament vs. cash game, for example).
The best hand I've ever folded at a low-limit cash game pre-flop was JJ. It was typical Brantford 5-10 (very loose, very passive, especially pre-flop on both counts). I was 3rd UTG and it was raised UTG by a typical player, and then re-raised by a solid, somewhat straight-forward, tight player 2nd UTG. I mucked it, thinking at least one of then has a bigger pair, and even in a good case (for me), I'm probably up against at least one big Ace. More realistically, it's going to be me against something like QQ and AK where I'm an insane dog.
This also marked the first time I had to really *think* about a low-limit pre-flop decision. 8)
The board ended up being complete rags (rainbow, no ace or face) and the winner was AA from a player who was actually still to act *behind* me pre-flop (and capped it at 4 bets). The other pre-flop raisers didn't show.
I was dying to see their cards (which is allowed), but I won't normally do this unless I actually suspect collusion (has never happened), or sometimes I'll ask to see the bettor's (or raiser's) cards in situations where they are supposed to show first, but do not.
And pushing the wrong button online doesn't count, unless there's a funny reason why it happened.
ScottyZ
Comments
When the flop brought an ace, he bet $300. I quickly raised $300, and when he called, I knew I had no chance. I've been playing with him for years. A harmless card fell on the turn, and when he moved in on me, I folded. I'd already made up my mind to fold to pretty much any bet tho.
He told me after the hand that he had AQ, and I have no reason not to believe him. Not as good as either of the laydowns already mentioned, but man, it's hard to fold AJ when you hit the ace. Arg.
ScottyZ... that JJ laydown... very nice... as was vinsanity's AKs.
Regards,
all_aces
I was in a tournament (sit and go) and it was insanely stupid. like 2nd or third hand with some aggressive previous action... some real loose betting and some real stupid calling, and no hand even saw the turn. Anyways, this hand went around the table couple times with some betting and marginal raising so I was happy cause they all showed weak raises (compared to what I was holding) so I re-raise (I was in mid position), and boy was I shocked to see, 5 guys after me go all-in. Since it was early in the event I was not ready to loose a stupid draw hand and against five callers "all-in" so I siad screw it... take my 100 in chips and enjoy. There can be only one winner. So I mucked it!
turns out there were some crazy straight draws and a pair of jacks on the table. Hands were AJo for three of a kind, pocket tens for two pair, and someone caught the high staricht with KQsuited.
The guy who caught went on to win the sit and go. I came second just cause I hung around.... the four guys who were out early bumped me right up to a money spot practically. The big chip leader started leaning on guys and took them out. I played tight, sat around and collected my winnings.
Moral of the story, if you can't get guys out with pre-flop raising (seems we were all slow playing it) then even aces are not much hope against five callers. if it were only two by the time it came back I would have called easily.
Thats my lay down, I was quite happy with the decision but next time I will start as the aggressor rather than let guys hang for cheap.
G.
...because I hit the wrong button online.
i've folded AK offsuit and JJ...that's about it...mind you, I'll likely toss JJ to even a mid size raise because I despise them oh so much.
Maybe I'm missing something, but there seems to be no board where this is possible. Specifically, a T must be on board to make a straight with KQ, which must make at least 3 of a kind for the pocket tens.
I would probably still call here with the AA here myself versus 5 players, but this is by no means clearly the right play. It's one of those (massively) +EV plays that you *still* might pass on because of your aversion to busting out of a tournament.
ScottyZ
By this time I was covering my eyes because I didn't want to see my aces would have stood up!
I have a rule never play all in early in these events cause there is always someone trying to double up early and take the lead, or bust and go try again somewhere else... this time a few of them... once I saw five I knew the field was going to be narrowed down significantly so why not let them take each other out and then cruise to the money?
I saw this on the WPT the other day:
"never interupt your enemy when he is making a mistake"
Napoleon Bonaparte.
On the other hand, I do like to try to take advantage of the "yahoos" who play so badly in the early rounds (for whatever reason... possibly as you said, they're thinking double up or go home far to early on). So I'm not nearly as worried about getting all the chips in with something like AK on a flop of Axx as I would be against solid players. At low-limit SNG's, I think I'll get called often enough by the weakies with Ax to make this play profitable. So I guess I'm willing to take a little more risk if I get a flop where it's likely that my opponent got also got a (smaller) piece of it, and could possibly make a big mistake. Who am I to "interrupt him"? 8)
ScottyZ
I raised to 6 slolth went 25 and seeing as I only had 60 total on the table I mucked AK face up.
If I had more however I might have seen the flop with the advantage of *knowing* his hand.
After I mucked he showed his AA and I said "I know"
Had it been anyone else in that game at that time I might have just moved all in but Sloth is a rock and there was NO other hand it could be
I feel the same way, but it backfires... here's a hand from a NL $30 multi at pokerroom, blinds 75/150 I have about T4000. Folded to button who limps... ? ...SB folds, and I check my AQo in the BB hoping for a big flop so I can try to trap him. Flop comes A83 rainbow, I check, he bets the minimum, I decide to hell with a slow agonizing trap, and I check-raise him all-in. He calls with about T2500 with A7o, and of course hits his 7 on the river, and I'm back to where I started with T1500.
Another all-in gone horribly wrong... another $30 NL multi, blinds 50/100 and I have about T3000. I limp in MP with A5d because there's already a couple in, and then it's a limp-fest around the table. Flop comes K73 all diamonds, I flopped the nuts! Checked to me, I check, guy to my left moves in for T750, one other guy thinks and thinks and then just calls, leaving him with about T1250. Folded to me, and now I check-raise all-in, and the other guy calls for his last 1250.
First all-in guy had like QTo with maybe one diamond. Second all-in had KJo with no diamond; just one pair on the flop. My nut flush vs. his one pair after 5 cards of this 7-card game, and I lose to his full house when the turn is another king, and the river, a jack.
Now what are the odds of that? Pretty slim I think, but oh well. Sorry. This started more or less on-topic, and devolved into a whiny bad-beat post. It's a slippery slope.
Regards,
all_aces
we've all been in an equally disappointing hand i'm sure...watching the cards u threw away get better, and better.....and better
A perfect draw is like 987 to 1. In this case probably like 800 or so????
This is exactly why I mentioned I folded my Aces earlier. The double up and go home mentality is way too present in these on line fiasco's at low limits.
"Any two cards can win" We have all heard this umpteen times before right? So that in mind with 4-6 callers all in when it got to me I said there has to be a draw that'll catch here. So I'm out.
Stupid play probably and even though I am favored to win it may not be likely. It is also said that Hold em is the only poker game where the winner is determined before the cards are dealt. Same principal, so I give my self pocket aces and deal out 5-6 more dummy hands face up then five on the board. You'de be amazed with all these hands in play what can actually win.
My last thought (and justification so everyone here doesn't think I'm an idiot) with 5-6 callers all in, no matter what happens even on a split pot, I'm all of a sudden right on the bubble to win some coinage. Isn't that what we are there for? and if I see what the "all-in fiasco" winner actually went in with I have a pretty good read on him right off the bat! That may come in handy in short handed play and he is throwing his big stack around late in the tournament.
Do I still have some respect?
1. Online no limit freeroll tourney. AQo I was on or just after button. Can't remember. Three people ahead of me end up all in. Pot odds are good for sure. What bothered me was maybe a high set in there somewhere. Turns out one had Kings, and one had Queens. I felt much better when the third King hit the board. lol
Pure luck.
2. I entered a $39 omaha hi-lo no limit tourney by mistake, just a few weeks ago. Thought it was a holdem tourney. lol A bad click I guess. Never noticed anything weird, until the cards were dealt. I took a few guys out early though, having never played the game before in my life. lol I lasted about an hour. It was hilarious. I'll probably never go back. It's a weird game.
I do enjoy it although Hold Em, as I suspect here, is the favorite and specialty.
I have yet to lay down the aces myself.
I was in the game when ice did this. Excellent read, and an excellent fold.
I'm not sure what I would have done with AA here. It strikes me as a sitation when I probably would have folded AA as well. This is because of the prize strucuture at the bottom. There were the same payouts for 64th to 81st, and I don't think that even doubling or tripling up at that point would have given me a realistic shot at placing 63rd or higher; and even if that did happen, the 63rd place prize wasn't a significant jump from the 64th - 81st place prize
ScottyZ
We are all playing for money here right? and if you can crack the game by 'not playing' then why not.
Here's something that just got me HUGE. Was in a sit and go and made it to the heads up point. Dude was AWOL, he wasn't there. His hand timed out 4 out of every 5 hands. I suspect he had a bigger investment elsewhere he was paying more attention to. Sooooooooo, I start raising with 7-2 off hoping he would fold and I could ante him to death.
Every once in a while he would pop back and re-raise me... money lost, had to fold 7-2 off, yet when I raise with AA or KK he was nowhere in sight and I stole his blind. yippee! Eventually he caught a decent hand as well as did I, although I was second best. How do you read him now??? anyways fact of the matter I lost cause I was completely frustrated with him, I even emailed support as to find out of any recourse or find out their view of the matter.
At most sites I have played at, when a player runs out of time, they become maked as sitting out. When a player is sitting out, they will *automatically* fold when it's their turn to act until they come back. You should be able to bust any player heads-up who is sitting out for as little as a minute or two.
I'm not sure what you expect from support. Unless the site you're at offers all-in protection, I can't see what your opponent or the site has done wrong here. If your opponent is not paying attention to the table, or is constantly timing out for some other reason, this is to your advantage.
ScottyZ
To tell you the truth nothing... I just thought it bad practise (perhaps venting was needed). And it was to my advantage when he didn't pop back up and call my 7-2 raise.
As for the sitting out, it was a while ago and I'm not sure of how it worked but I do recall that he was coming and going at his leisure and getting me in hot water when I tried to steal from him. I think if he called the last one and timed out he was sitting out afterwards but he would go AWOL during hands.... that was the problem. I never knew when he was there paying attention or not. so any raise meant he timed out and I stole the pot, if he was there I was not trying to raise with junk. That was the problem as best I can remember.
Either way, 2nd place wasn't too bad.
Now if anyone is "sitting out" while I am in the money with short handed or heads up I apeal to steal the absent players blind. Last thing I want is someone not even there to out last someone who is actually playing and risking their chips.
you think that is bad????
By this, do you mean your opponent would be treated as being all-in if he left the table in the middle of a hand? (I don't really know what "going AWOL" means...)
If this is what was actually what was going on (I was referring to this earlier when I mentioned "all-in protection"), then you certainly *do* have good reasons to:
(a) complain to support
(b) never play at that particular site again until they fix the situation (i.e. by *not* providing players with all-in protection).
ScottyZ
NO all-in protection. Thats why I was betting, cause if he was gone or not paying attention within 15 seconds I could steal his blind (which were like 400 at the end of the event) if he had all-in protection it would be a draw to the finish evenry hand it went missing. Talk about confidence.... losing to a guy who isn't even sitting at the table. He is the rake!!!! lol
Anyways so I have no recourse and the situation stunk but I guess I was trying to leverage an oportunity and got caught... that is what poker is generally about sometimes right???
Thanks for your replies Scotty,
I guess I am used to playing at sites which automatically and *immediately* fold someone's cards if they are currently in "sitting out" mode. I guess you are saying that the site you were on still allows time for players to return to their seat during a hand.
In this case, I don't think you should treat the sitting out player any differently than a regular player. The player can easily sit out on purpose to try to fool you into raising him every time. When you raise him and he's got a big hand, he (apparently) has time to return to the game and re-raise you (or take whatever action he wants).
If this is how the site you were on handles sitting out players, I wouldn't raise this player any more or less often than if he was sitting in his seat.
ScottyZ
I seem to recall one multi tournament I played I got AQs UTG and I mucked it. I think it is a muck most people should make but rarely do. Later in the tournament I had AQs UTG and I went all-in. Situation was different and people were playing much tighter in the second one ... sometimes stack forces you to make widely different plays.
I have never folded AA preflop and I can't say I ever will -- almost regardless of the situation. KK has been in the muck atleast one time to a re-raise from a tight player and I just threw it in the muck without showing it.
The play with AK where you are close to the money ... I don't think I make that play. In general the little amount you get just over the bubble isn't worth giving up on a chance to win the tournament. Lots of times in situations like that I have gone all-in to pickup the blinds or get called by someone with AQ/AJ (once by someone with KQ). By folding I think you guarantee yourself a bottom of the ladder placing but give yourself no chance to win any real money. Just my opinion mind you (sometimes it is the right play).
.kw
Satellite to the Sunday WSOP satellite on Party
Down to the last 4, top 3 get seats.
There were two big stacks (one of which was me), a medium stack, and a tiny stack. Big stack pushes all in for about 215K preflop from the button, I have AA, 200K chips in the BB. Blinds are 4K-8K, short stack has 14K.
I folded.