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tt ep
how do you play Tens from here?
Full Tilt Poker Game #21597617324: All in 4 Autism (153630376), Table 9 - 150/300 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:02:52 ET - 2010/06/13
Seat 1: idahored1980 (9,928)
Seat 2: WhizdumbAQ (5,620)
Seat 3: AAAKK_AAAAK (12,555)
Seat 4: forboon (6,159)
Seat 5: MammyKat (4,080)
Seat 6: miwakura (5,358)
Seat 7: Harbor1941 (18,784)
Seat 8: AcEGoDD (14,510)
Seat 9: chocomunkie (11,382)
idahored1980 antes 25
WhizdumbAQ antes 25
AAAKK_AAAAK antes 25
forboon antes 25
MammyKat antes 25
miwakura antes 25
Harbor1941 antes 25
AcEGoDD antes 25
chocomunkie antes 25
idahored1980 posts the small blind of 150
WhizdumbAQ posts the big blind of 300
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon [Tc Th]
AAAKK_AAAAK folds
forboon.....
can you fold? how big do you raise? what are you planning on doing with it to a raise preflop? what are you doing hu with an overpair to the flop?
Full Tilt Poker Game #21597617324: All in 4 Autism (153630376), Table 9 - 150/300 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:02:52 ET - 2010/06/13
Seat 1: idahored1980 (9,928)
Seat 2: WhizdumbAQ (5,620)
Seat 3: AAAKK_AAAAK (12,555)
Seat 4: forboon (6,159)
Seat 5: MammyKat (4,080)
Seat 6: miwakura (5,358)
Seat 7: Harbor1941 (18,784)
Seat 8: AcEGoDD (14,510)
Seat 9: chocomunkie (11,382)
idahored1980 antes 25
WhizdumbAQ antes 25
AAAKK_AAAAK antes 25
forboon antes 25
MammyKat antes 25
miwakura antes 25
Harbor1941 antes 25
AcEGoDD antes 25
chocomunkie antes 25
idahored1980 posts the small blind of 150
WhizdumbAQ posts the big blind of 300
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon [Tc Th]
AAAKK_AAAAK folds
forboon.....
can you fold? how big do you raise? what are you planning on doing with it to a raise preflop? what are you doing hu with an overpair to the flop?
Comments
I can fold here, but that would depend on the table and my image. If I have been a rock, I lead out with 3x, letting everyone know I am very interested..there is 10% of our stack already in the pot with just blinds and antes..if we get re-raised, it is easy to let go. Still have 15 bb and position coming up...
If we are playing loosey-goosey...I probably still raise and shove to a re raise knowing we are probably ahead in a race.
If we get one caller and (likely) an over card lands..A or K, I cbet (or c/r depending on who calls and how I perceive them). Q, I check/fold. (maybe float depending on flop texture) (if I have a tight image)
I am plenty ok with a fold here too.
too many unknowns...
tear me up...
I havent really had time to think about the hand in general, but:
Really? You're openfolding 1010? I may have read what you typed wrong though.
lol..it isn't my first choice by any means...and yeah I know..tight. I am not limping, and I am not open shoving...but, with position coming and it costing me 3x to raise with only 20bb, some circumstances may justify a fold...
I cant think of any.
Unless its a satellite bubble.
Its definately a tricky spot, but I think folding is super weaktight here.
Personally I think:
open raise > shove > limp > fold.
If we get shipped on after we open then there are decisions to be made, and folding is in that range depending on the villain.
(you'd probably shove up to 15 BB's with antes but I can't think of a situation to open muck unless you're dealing with some pretty heavy icm stuff...ever)
I think if you standard open and get called you are almost always setmining.
I dont like cbetting in this spot unless the flop is super dry.
super dry would be we have an over pair to the board.....which is we do cbet, were folding to a re raise and getting messed up over a call
then we've reduced this hand to 22-99 no?
and were' folding to a preflop re raise for any decent size stack (without a crazy history).
I'm leaning towards laying this down alot......
sure but.... how would play each of 77 88 99 ......cause im likely folding those....
and as far as limping the tt in ep (others considered), your likely calling a raise that will be more than what you would have bet and seen the flop in the first place. which is not a good way to set mine imo
On the flop, depending on how many called, I may cbet if an over card hits. If two overcards come down, I probably c/f or check/evalute depending on flop texture and opponent. The more people that call, the less likely I bet out with the overcard.
IMO the hand is too strong to open fold pre, but is a hand you have to play with caution as it vulnerable.
I play them the same way as 1010. Open and evaluate further action.
from utg+1....you ......do.....not?!
what, you're goign to sit around and wait for KK?
I allways open raise with 77+ from any position, as long as its unopened.
You have no reason to believe you don't have the best hand. If you get called, you can re-evaluate.
Back to the TT spot.
I am folding this hand somwhere between NEVER and NEVER. you have 20bbs. I'm raising / shipping here almost all the time unless villian is a nit.
EDIT: I'm also raising about 3-4bbs. Make it hard for villians to call, and let them know you're serious. I really see no reason to ship, as I personally don't mind a call.
If I get called I cbet often say 75% of the time. I think the only time i'm not cbetting is flops like AKJ, 567 one suit, KQ8, etc. but it's all villian dependant. On a 567 one suit against LAG tard ill probably C/R, but I really don't want a call here.
TT>90% of hands out there. You have to play it with your stack.
Limping TT the only way I would play this would be to reshove a raiser essentially turning my hand into a bluff, but the chances of me playing it this way are very small.
so this wasn't you then?
Full Tilt Poker Game #21613108462: $14,500 Guarantee (Rebuy) (166533608), Table 185 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:44:00 ET - 2010/06/14
Seat 1: teabagger357 (7,745)
Seat 2: ryman70 (4,969)
Seat 3: forboon (4,635)
Seat 4: DAVE101GAHAN (24,039)
Seat 5: bigchuck59 (6,538)
Seat 6: soapnyoureye (22,805)
Seat 7: dannyboy0203 (9,745)
Seat 8: klodi (6,717)
Seat 9: DANYLSON93 (6,120)
teabagger357 antes 25
ryman70 antes 25
forboon antes 25
DAVE101GAHAN antes 25
bigchuck59 antes 25
soapnyoureye antes 25
dannyboy0203 antes 25
klodi antes 25
DANYLSON93 antes 25
soapnyoureye posts the small blind of 120
dannyboy0203 posts the big blind of 240
DAVE101GAHAN has been disconnected
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon [Jd Js]
DAVE101GAHAN has reconnected
klodi has 15 seconds left to act
klodi folds
DANYLSON93 calls 240
teabagger357 folds
ryman70 raises to 4,944, and is all in
forboon calls 4,610, and is all in
DAVE101GAHAN folds
bigchuck59 folds
soapnyoureye has 15 seconds left to act
DAVE101GAHAN has been disconnected
DAVE101GAHAN has reconnected
soapnyoureye has requested TIME
soapnyoureye folds
dannyboy0203 folds
DANYLSON93 has 15 seconds left to act
DANYLSON93 folds
ryman70 shows [Tc Ts]
forboon shows [Jd Js]
Uncalled bet of 334 returned to ryman70
*** FLOP *** [7c Td 9h]
*** TURN *** [7c Td 9h] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [7c Td 9h 3c] [2c]
ryman70 shows three of a kind, Tens
forboon shows a pair of Jacks
ryman70 wins the pot (10,045) with three of a kind, Tens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 10,045 | Rake 0
Board: [7c Td 9h 3c 2c]
Seat 1: teabagger357 folded before the Flop
Seat 2: ryman70 showed [Tc Ts] and won (10,045) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 3: forboon showed [Jd Js] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 4: DAVE101GAHAN folded before the Flop
Seat 5: bigchuck59 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: soapnyoureye (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: dannyboy0203 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: klodi folded before the Flop
Seat 9: DANYLSON93 folded before the Flop
in early position yes im waiting for a premium hand.
77-99 will flop 2 over cards 35% of the time, 1 40%, and none 13%. i don't believe you can push through that without spewing most of the time, especially with more than one caller. And against any preflop re raise you can't possible think your ahead.
and a contination bet will sometimes get a fold but i think alot of times will get a call, and i serously think you cannot fire another bullet under very many circumstances at all
So you get 2 overs 1 in 3, 1 over 2 outta 5. You will also hit a set 1 in about 7. So you raise, you may get called, and depending on who calls you there is still the possibility of having position (if one of the blinds call).
I like playing a little more small-ball, as I want to be able to raise to show strength, yet be able to get away cheaply if 3bet or called.
But I still think it is a raise and evaluate. I am almost never shipping it in pre as we are at best a coin flip, unless the villain is completely aggro.
But IMO you have to be able to raise this and play from there. Waiting for position or even better hands at this level I find just blinds you away.
hah. no, that sucks.
as you said 30% of the time you have 77, 2 overs come. Doesn't mean you can't cbet. What if the flop is 689? or 28K? still pretty good flops for you. Can villian really call you with Q8 on those flops? Its pretty hard. With these hands you're not really looking for an overpair, just the best hand. When you think you have it, or when you think villian's too weak to play second pair, you have to bet, and most of the time you'll win the pot.
If you sit around waiting for JJ+ AQ+ you'll get blinded out. Remember, TT is still better off then AK.
Preflop with 77 you might get reraised, and you'll probably have to let it go, but hey thats poker.
I'll treat it the same as AJ/AQ in this spot. I'll raise/fold depending on stack sizes/idiot plays, and cbet most flops. The majority of the time I win pots.
are you re raising to a preflop 3bet or calling.....the problem lies in the postflop lines.... tt doesn't play well oop esp if it becomes multiway. not completely arguing but more pushing all the lines everyone suggests.
i really think your reduced to set minning the flop
you have three lines on a missed set mine flop, check fold on the flop or turn.
bet most of your stack and shove/fold to a re raise with no info.
shove blind to his hand....
Full Tilt Poker Game #21615355545: Early Double - B (166570986), Table 55 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:24:24 ET - 2010/06/14
Seat 1: forboon (1,935)
Seat 2: EuniceatHome (2,000)
Seat 3: obsolete1955 (1,910)
Seat 4: McAlpen (2,000)
Seat 5: vince2lose (2,415)
Seat 6: 2aces2many (1,600), is sitting out
Seat 7: Yumasik (6,134)
Seat 8: eman2188 (1,010)
Seat 9: miko ati (6,330)
eman2188 posts the small blind of 20
miko ati posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to forboon
2aces2many has returned
forboon raises to 100
obsolete1955 has 15 seconds left to act
obsolete1955 raises to 1,910, and is all in
vince2lose folds
2aces2many folds
Yumasik folds
eman2188 folds
miko ati folds
forboon calls 1,810
obsolete1955 shows [5d As]
forboon shows
*** FLOP *** [Qd Jd 6s]
*** TURN *** [Qd Jd 6s] [Kc]
*** RIVER *** [Qd Jd 6s Kc] [Kd]
obsolete1955 shows a pair of Kings
forboon shows two pair, Kings and Tens
forboon wins the pot (3,880) with two pair, Kings and Tens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,880 | Rake 0
Board: [Qd Jd 6s Kc Kd]
Seat 1: forboon showed and won (3,880) with two pair, Kings and Tens
Seat 2: EuniceatHome is sitting out
Seat 3: obsolete1955 showed [5d As] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 4: McAlpen is sitting out
Seat 5: vince2lose didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: 2aces2many didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Yumasik (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: eman2188 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: miko ati (big blind) folded before the Flop
Meh, if you're afraid to get into a profitable spot cause you're afraid to play postflop you're getting bluffed too much, adjust by calling more postflop I guess
you're kidding right <.<
would you openfold AKo there too cause you don't like your position when the flop becomes multiway cause you'll miss as many times as an overcard will hit your 1010?
AK plays way better imo
I'll take the made hand every day over the draw. While some may say it is 50/50ish, that is only 50/50 if it gets to the river. On a dry flop you can bet with some confidence and play from there.
I raise 1010 here everyday. It isn't a top 10 hand for nothing.
Shoving 1010 unexploitably yields this:
"675 x 0,87" chips gained when everyone folds times the probability that everyone folds excluding flips
"(6150+300) x 0,13 x 0,19" Chips won when called by JJ through AA. 300 is an estimate depending on who calls you, if the BB calls it'll be a bit less and if anyone else calls a bit more, times the probability you get called times the equity in pot when calles
"-6150x0,13x0,81" chips you lose times the probability that you lose them
675x0,87+(6150+300)x0,13x0,19-6150x0,13x0,81
675x0,87 + 0,13x6150(0,19-0,81) + 300x0,13x0,19
587,25 - 495 + 7,4
100
Adding all scenarios together to figure out that we're netting about 1/3 of a BB by shoving.
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt
328,762,368 games 0.410 secs 801,859,434 games/sec
Board:
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.210% 56.01% 00.20% 184153140 644142.00 { TT }
Hand 1: 43.790% 43.59% 00.20% 143320944 644142.00 { AQs+, AQo+ }
(6150x2 +300) x 0,56 - 6150 -675 is the extra chip gain in cases where you're flipping which is about 230 chips. To keep it simple I've ignored cases with multiple callers but it's pretty much the same.
Add to this the fact that we may get called by smaller pairs occasionally and other random hands that we crush. Hope at least I've shown that folding is out of the question. We should definitely play it somehow and I hate the mindset "let's raise more to protect them hands" so we'll just have to endure the tough hypothetical spots