Oops... I just realized this is in the "MTT Stretegy" section... so ya, 200xBB would be pretty awesome.
Given that info, you're probably playing in a lot of situations where you don't have sufficient implied odds to limp - let alone call a raise - with a small pair... unless maybe you have position and think you can steal the pot after the flop when you miss. But if that's the case, you don't need a small pair in your hand.
Oops... I just realized this is in the "MTT Stretegy" section... so ya, 200xBB would be pretty awesome.
Given that info, you're probably playing in a lot of situations where you don't have sufficient implied odds to limp - let alone call a raise - with a small pair... unless maybe you have position and think you can steal the pot after the flop when you miss. But if that's the case, you don't need a small pair in your hand.
right on, was just harrasin a little. i don't call alot of raise, just some min raise, and limp when i know the table will let me. happens alot. but i never check the odds, i just figure if i hit my set, ill likely make up for them.
It's situation-dependent (position is key; other players' pre- and post-flop play is equally key; stack sizes are crucial), but I find set-mining is most profitable when I'm at least 200xBB deep and at least a few of my opponents are (a) also deep and (b) can't get away from TPTK and top two-pair type hands. Of course, when you're 200xBB deep, set-over-set smarts a bit... but c'est la poker.
If you're set-mining in tournaments when you have (or everyone else at your table has) M < 30, you have a leak in your game.
I like this strat for MTTs. I was allways curious when to play multi way for set mining value. I'd call 3xbb bets with low pps if it was multi-way and my M>15. TOTAL spite call no less, not deep enough to do this.
P.S.
If you two get into a poker fight together, can I play too?
I like this strat for MTTs. I was allways curious when to play multi way for set mining value. I'd call 3xbb bets with low pps if it was multi-way and my M>15. TOTAL spite call no less, not deep enough to do this.
P.S.
If you two get into a poker fight together, can I play too?
i will win many tourneys without ever going over an m of thirty, and i seriously can't believe that you should never play pocket pairs to set mine without that high of a chip count, ive been doing it every chance i get with over 10 bbs
i will win many tourneys without ever going over an m of thirty, and i seriously can't believe that you should never play pocket pairs to set mine without that high of a chip count, ive been doing it every chance i get with over 10 bbs
I think he was being sarcastic. I was talking about cash games there, and even in cash games its profitable with effective stacks from 40xBB and above. I just find set mining most profitable when deeper.
As for MTTs, 10xBB is really pushing it. That means you have to get an opponents entire stack (assuming they have you covered) > 85% of the times you flop a set - and that's also assuming the pot never gets raised behind you. And it's mathematically incorrect if your opponent in the hand has < 8.5xBB, unless you're in position and can bluff him off the pot often enough to make it profitable. You (and your opponent) should really have > 20xBB to make it profitable to set mine, based on getting his stack ~ 50% of the time (or winning half his stack, on average). If you're shorter stacked than that, treat small pairs as hands you can semi-bluff with occasionally (especially in position), throw them away when OOP, and emphasize playing hands with some showdown value.
I think he was being sarcastic. I was talking about cash games there, and even in cash games its profitable with effective stacks from 40xBB and above. I just find set mining most profitable when deeper.
As for MTTs, 10xBB is really pushing it. That means you have to get an opponents entire stack (assuming they have you covered) > 85% of the times you flop a set - and that's also assuming the pot never gets raised behind you. And it's mathematically incorrect if your opponent in the hand has < 8.5xBB, unless you're in position and can bluff him off the pot often enough to make it profitable. You (and your opponent) should really have > 20xBB to make it profitable to set mine, based on getting his stack ~ 50% of the time. If you're shorter stacked than that, treat small pairs as hands you can semi-bluff with occasionally (especially in position), throw them away when OOP, and emphasize playing hands with some showdown value.
yes i do it with more then 10 bb, and hopefully have 20, and only if i believe strongly no one behind me will raise. basically we're on the same lines. was just wondering if you need a certain amount of limpers in the pot. it seems with everyone suggestions you can play it with limpers or with out with a decent stack. i don't like the play so much with a shorter stack like 12 bb but sometimes ill do it if i know its pretty much shove time and i can limp one last time first without going below 10bb.
cash games, i love to setmine (possibly to the point i may be over doing it, but as far as my stats go it`s been very profitable).
MTTs (which this thread is about) i don't like to do it too often. it definitely depends on the players i`m playing, their stack size, my stack size, position, my table image, etc. etc.
MTTs (which this thread is about) i don't like to do it too often. it definitely depends on the players i`m playing, their stack size, my stack size, position, my table image, etc. etc.
Comments
Oops... I just realized this is in the "MTT Stretegy" section... so ya, 200xBB would be pretty awesome.
Given that info, you're probably playing in a lot of situations where you don't have sufficient implied odds to limp - let alone call a raise - with a small pair... unless maybe you have position and think you can steal the pot after the flop when you miss. But if that's the case, you don't need a small pair in your hand.
right on, was just harrasin a little. i don't call alot of raise, just some min raise, and limp when i know the table will let me. happens alot. but i never check the odds, i just figure if i hit my set, ill likely make up for them.
still not sure...but thx for the input.
I like this strat for MTTs. I was allways curious when to play multi way for set mining value. I'd call 3xbb bets with low pps if it was multi-way and my M>15. TOTAL spite call no less, not deep enough to do this.
P.S.
If you two get into a poker fight together, can I play too?
i will win many tourneys without ever going over an m of thirty, and i seriously can't believe that you should never play pocket pairs to set mine without that high of a chip count, ive been doing it every chance i get with over 10 bbs
I think he was being sarcastic. I was talking about cash games there, and even in cash games its profitable with effective stacks from 40xBB and above. I just find set mining most profitable when deeper.
As for MTTs, 10xBB is really pushing it. That means you have to get an opponents entire stack (assuming they have you covered) > 85% of the times you flop a set - and that's also assuming the pot never gets raised behind you. And it's mathematically incorrect if your opponent in the hand has < 8.5xBB, unless you're in position and can bluff him off the pot often enough to make it profitable. You (and your opponent) should really have > 20xBB to make it profitable to set mine, based on getting his stack ~ 50% of the time (or winning half his stack, on average). If you're shorter stacked than that, treat small pairs as hands you can semi-bluff with occasionally (especially in position), throw them away when OOP, and emphasize playing hands with some showdown value.
yes i do it with more then 10 bb, and hopefully have 20, and only if i believe strongly no one behind me will raise. basically we're on the same lines. was just wondering if you need a certain amount of limpers in the pot. it seems with everyone suggestions you can play it with limpers or with out with a decent stack. i don't like the play so much with a shorter stack like 12 bb but sometimes ill do it if i know its pretty much shove time and i can limp one last time first without going below 10bb.
MTTs (which this thread is about) i don't like to do it too often. it definitely depends on the players i`m playing, their stack size, my stack size, position, my table image, etc. etc.
yup every decision for every play does.....
thanks for the help
The act of sitting at a poker game and only playing when you hit trips.
Dude I was up till four in the morning trying to set mine on party poker...
/thread