I actually think you are 100% right about the behaviour and the position she was angling for with it. She was by far the dominant female in the litter. Hopefully you want to talk more 'dog' I'm really interested to hear more about Queenie, so if you're willing, please do write more.
As for Larry and I...
We've already naturally started down the road to re-asserting my position as pack leader before I realized what some of those behaviors meant and I'm certain that she is well on the way to understanding that I am in charge. Though I'm pretty sure she thinks she's second in command, which will be funny when Ryan comes back from MN this week.
The steps I've taken: (I'd truly welcome any corrections or suggestions)
1. Basic commands: she's mastered sit, come, fetch and 90% on drop (we're now working on how to greet other people without jumping up and stay)
2. I've adopted the 'push on' attitude when she is in my way, both for the pillow and also for our walks..as she'd been jumping up a bit. I just walk on (which has lead to some gentle, but hilarious tumbles for her) or I lay down exactly where I want to be. (She gets out of the way before my head hits the pillow)
^^I'd esp love any feedback on that strategy, she's my first jumper.
3. I make her sit and hold her to stay while I place her food in her kennel, I also randomly take away things like bones, for a minute or two and reward friendly obliging behaviour. (she does not get aggressive when I do) I return the toy after a command.
4. We do not play tug of war, ever and I will not allow others to do it with her.
If you have anything to add, I'm all ears..or if you would I'd love to hear more about what you and Queenie are going through. (Or any other pet owners on the forum!)
Kristy try this. Does Larry ever come up to you when your sitting in a chair, and put her paw on your leg for attention? If so, next time put your open hand over her paw and see what happens. I will put money on the fact that she'll pull her paw away and put it back on top of yours.
Paw #1 she let me cover, but about 20 seconds later paw #2 came up and when I covered that with my other hand she did immediately pull it out and put it back on top.
Sorry, Kristy, not a dog person, as far as owning goes, so I will just read on. I have cats. Cats are easy, or as the magnet over my stove says:
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff . . .
LOL..I actually find cats harder to deal with..but that's probably just because Hank is a sociopath.
He actually sets traps to attack people and has figured out that you need to use the knob to open the door and has been experimentally wiggling them to get in and out since he was tall enough to stand on his hind legs and reach them.
Chester is a mean drunk (cat-nip). He tries to get all horny with the other three when he is on the 'nip. None of have the parts, but he's a trooper, my Chester. So much like his Dad, except for the mean drunk part.
I actually think you are 100% right about the behaviour and the position she was angling for with it. She was by far the dominant female in the litter. Hopefully you want to talk more 'dog' I'm really interested to hear more about Queenie, so if you're willing, please do write more.
As for Larry and I...
We've already naturally started down the road to re-asserting my position as pack leader before I realized what some of those behaviors meant and I'm certain that she is well on the way to understanding that I am in charge. Though I'm pretty sure she thinks she's second in command, which will be funny when Ryan comes back from MN this week.
The steps I've taken: (I'd truly welcome any corrections or suggestions)
1. Basic commands: she's mastered sit, come, fetch and 90% on drop (we're now working on how to greet other people without jumping up and stay)
2. I've adopted the 'push on' attitude when she is in my way, both for the pillow and also for our walks..as she'd been jumping up a bit. I just walk on (which has lead to some gentle, but hilarious tumbles for her) or I lay down exactly where I want to be. (She gets out of the way before my head hits the pillow)
^^I'd esp love any feedback on that strategy, she's my first jumper.
3. I make her sit and hold her to stay while I place her food in her kennel, I also randomly take away things like bones, for a minute or two and reward friendly obliging behaviour. (she does not get aggressive when I do) I return the toy after a command.
4. We do not play tug of war, ever and I will not allow others to do it with her.
If you have anything to add, I'm all ears..or if you would I'd love to hear more about what you and Queenie are going through. (Or any other pet owners on the forum!)
I'd love to keep the thread going and talk about dogs. I suck at talking poker strategy, so at least here I can contribute! Others might bore with it, but there's always something else to read.
My thoughts:
1. Jumping when meeting people. Tell your friends to completely ignore her when you meet on the street or they enter your house. They give Larry no attention whatsoever until she's settled and calm. You should be doing this as well when you come home. Just walk in and start doing what you usually do. If she's jumping, tell your friends (or yourself) to raise their knee up enough to block her. You are NOT kneeing her in the chest, but blocking her followed up with a quick "NO".
Jumping while you're walking..I think you're doing the right thing. Forward motion, just keep moving. She jumps and tumbles, c'est la vie. She'll eventually get it. Just keep 'assertively' moving forward. When you stop, she's getting attention which is why she's jumping on you.
2. Sort of ties into what you mentioned in 1. Around your house, don't tip toe over the dog if they are in your way. Tell them to move. "Push on" as you said. If they are standing in your way, walk right through them. You're not going to hurt them, they will move. We have a friend who is a Great Dane breeder (yes, she's a pro, not a backyard breeder). At any one point in time she can have as many as 15 of these giant beasts in her home weighing between 150 and 200lb. You can't be expected to climb over them all the time as that's all you'd be doing. They move for you or they get stepped on.
3. Not much to say here. You're doing it right. You own everything, she owns nothing. She can borrow her toys, but if you want them back she gives them up immediately. Food and bones are good ones to work on this with. If there's anything they'll protect it's food and bones. Only time Bob ever growled at me was when I tried to take a bone away. If they're growling and you're not comfortable taking the object away, remove them from the object and then take it away.
4. Again, you're doing it right. Lots of people play tug of war with their dogs, and wrestle with them and it works out ok. I used to wrestle with Bob all the time. Never had a problem. But if you're dog has dominant tendencies and you haven't established that you're the boss yet... You're asking for trouble. I knew someone who said "your dog never wins battles like these. Ever. Even if you lose, you'd better act like you've won."
Considering your personality Kristy (not sayin' anything bad here), I don't think you'll have many problems you can't deal with. Always be assertive, not aggressive. Don't let little things slide, address them immediately. If you're working on training, do it in small bursts. Dogs have short attention spans. If you get frustrated, stop. If you're tired, stop. Always end training on a positive note, never on a negative. Makes it more rewarding for you and your pooch. They'll be more interested in engaging training the next time.
Queenie's doing great. She skulks and slithers around the house following me and staying out of Bob's way. She doesn't like not knowing where I am at all times. If you walk towards her she panics and backs away and hides til you go past, then follows you to wherever you go.
The big thing is that she hasn't freaked out when we've left her alone. I'm sure that'll happen at some point, and I've accepted that. Push on.
1. Jumping when meeting people. Tell your friends to completely ignore her when you meet on the street or they enter your house. They give Larry no attention whatsoever until she's settled and calm. You should be doing this as well when you come home. Just walk in and start doing what you usually do.
This one I have trouble with, if I don't immediately grab her from her kennel and literally carry her outside the moment I get home she piddles in excitement..and I have white carpet. Do you think just employing this strategy when others come in would be enough?
....
Queenie's doing great. She skulks and slithers around the house following me and staying out of Bob's way. She doesn't like not knowing where I am at all times. If you walk towards her she panics and backs away and hides til you go past, then follows you to wherever you go.
The big thing is that she hasn't freaked out when we've left her alone. I'm sure that'll happen at some point, and I've accepted that. Push on.
What are you thinking of trying to help bring her out of her shell? Esp. the panic and back away. Larry is a follower as well. I forget what it is like to go to washroom without an adoring audience, or wash dishes without a foot warmer.
Carry on the doggy discussions..... I am really enjoying just listening, have had several dogs during my adult life, all of them large breeds, Sheppard, Rotweiller and Doberman. Loved everyone of them, though they're all gone now...
Carry on the doggy discussions..... I am really enjoying just listening, have had several dogs during my adult life, all of them large breeds, Sheppard, Rotweiller and Doberman. Loved everyone of them, though they're all gone now...
HEY!!! There were two of us. Although Voodoo has been absent lately . . . woof woof.
Thanks for the whole post Bill, I really appreciate your taking the time and your feedback!
This one I have trouble with, if I don't immediately grab her from her kennel and literally carry her outside the moment I get home she piddles in excitement..and I have white carpet. Do you think just employing this strategy when others come in would be enough?
What are you thinking of trying to help bring her out of her shell? Esp. the panic and back away. Larry is a follower as well. I forget what it is like to go to washroom without an adoring audience, or wash dishes without a foot warmer.
Well, if you don't change that, you've relegated yourself to always having to do the same thing (walking her) when you get home, and she is controlling that. If you absolutely need to tend to something upon your arrival you won't be able to. When she gets older she won't (hopefully) do the excitement peeing and will have more control over that. Bob (the big lad) used to go nuts when I came home. He'd literally crush everything in his path, bark like a madman, leap over the couch, try and leap over other things (tables) and knock them over. He was manic. I would madly try and gather his leash, poop bags, etc. and get out the door asap.
He controlled me. Once I figured this out, I'd sit at my computer upon arrival and wait until he mellowed and sat down to wait for me. Give yourself a specific task you need to complete before you go out like checking your email. Not necessarily responding, but at least looking at it. Something that takes enough time for her to calm down. It didn't work right away for Bob, but he eventually got it.
Your white carpets.....You've got a dog Kristy. The white carpets are unfortunate. Try putting a rug down near the front door or wherever she pees for a while. She'll eventually stop that. Who has white carpets anyways. That sounds rather Jlo'ish.
Queenie will eventually gain more confidence through routine and constantly being introduced to new things in a positive way. She's already getting used to certain things/activities around the house. She's already exploring different areas of the house without being coaxed to do so.
If there is one thing we need to maintain with Queenie it will be patience. She will most likely be a lifetime project and we've accepted that. I made MANY mistakes with Bob because I was impatient. I paid for them dearly. He almost paid for them with his life on several occasions.
Your white carpets.....You've got a dog Kristy. The white carpets are unfortunate. Try putting a rug down near the front door or wherever she pees for a while. She'll eventually stop that. Who has white carpets anyways. That sounds rather Jlo'ish.
Hidden beat: Bill has watched 'Maid in Manhattan'
It took my golden (Larry's mother) until she was nearly two for bladder control to catch up with excitement levels. Poor thing was felt so ashamed and guilty when it happened, but she was just so thrilled to see everybody that she leaked a little.
Funny story is that she (mom) barks whenever the baby needs to go out. She knows and doesn't want anyone to be upset or in trouble.
Sorry Kristy, no 'maid in Manhattan' for me. I think I saw that on The Smoking Gun website or something where they described the various riders stars have in their contracts about what their dressing rooms must look like. Jlo demands that everything in her dressing room must be white (furniture, carpets, everything, etc.) As I remember I think ZZTOP was my favourite/most memorable. The things these people ask for was incredible. Stuff like a huge bowl of Smarties, but all the yellow ones had to be removed, etc.
That's interesting about the two year old still doing that. I have heard of that a few times, but it's fairly rare.
So, took Queenie on her first car ride with Bob. Told the gf to drive and if a major fight broke out in the back of the civic I'd be climbing back there to deal with it. Seemed to enjoy it. A friend is a dog trainer and he was having a big dog walk with all the dogs from his class. Asked him if it would be ok if we just tagged along to expose her to a new experience. She did well. She was scared shitless at some points and just shook with fear. It's interesting because she has no fear of other dogs after having lived in a rescue for 1.5 yrs. Minor scrap started..she couldn't care less. It's things like cars going by, the beeping of the 'ok to walk' signal, etc.
Dropped by Sobeys on the way home. Queenie, Bob and myself waited in the car. One of the staff was doing the shopping cart train through the parking lot. I thought Queenie was having a heart attack from the sound of the wheels.
i will admit that i spent my time in this thread like a new parent looking at my Casey's vid i posted, and kinda skipped though the meaty parts of bills and kristy's posts, but one thing came to mind. Is Larry Kennel trained? are you away from her for long periods of time? My sister had a small dog that went off like a sprinkler whenever she got excited
Is Larry Kennel trained? are you away from her for long periods of time? My sister had a small dog that went off like a sprinkler whenever she got excited
She is kennel trained, but is not in it for long periods of time. I went to one Bristol for about 5hrs..which was the longest stint. I put her in it every day for one hour while we eat dinner, I put her food dish in there and she gets all her treats in it. TBH I've been even more of a shut in since I got her than usual..so there isn't much cause to use it.
Her mother was not kennel trained and had the same problem, I'm guessing it is more genetics.
Could be Kristy. When I lived alone, Bob would be at home for 8hrs. by himself. Bob has separation anxiety when left alone. He's destroyed lots and lots of stuff in the past, so I've had to crate him since I got him. With some dogs, there's not really other options. He only had one accident when I got stuck at work and came home late. Pissed himself when he got out because he was so excited. Dogs in general will do everything they can to not pee or crap in their own house. Queenie went for two days without peeing or pooping. Stress I assume. Her first poop must have been testing the limits of the stretching powers of flesh! I would have been proud of that one!
I assume you've mentioned this to the vet when you've taken her? Not that it's a physical problem necessarily, just a question.
People do change their activities when they get a dog, but don't let them control your life by not going out. I did that. Made the separation anxiety worse. With Queenie we've been working harder than ever to go out for short durations of time frequently. Get her used to being alone in the house with Bob.
Mike, I loved that vid of your pooch launching into the water! That was awesome! No fear!
Yesterday, Queenie had her first sustained smile and wag since we got her. Wagged for at least 5 seconds before going out for a third walk for the day. Today more wagging after we came back from the stormy, icy, LOUD, lots of smells....beach! Very happy for her.
Realized today that Bob's buddy..a little stuffed fox he's had for years now will have to be put away. He covets the thing like it's his own soul. Always has. Goes nuts if he can't find it. I thought it might be a problem but hoped different. Today he had it in his mouth and she just looked at it. He freaked out a bit and seriously told her to fuck off. Over quickly, but still it kind of sealed the deal. He can have his buddy back on occasion as a treat, but for now we can't leave his toys out. Not fair to Queenie.
Anyhoo, glad to see the thread continue today. Wasn't planning on keeping it going if people were getting bored of hearing about Larry and Queenie. Glad to see there are lots of dog loving poker players out there.
Are you kidding?!? You have to keep this going. Dozen more posts and I can package this off to NBC for their 10:00 p.m. slot in the fall.
Larry and Queenie . . . a story of two bitches that just needed a hug.
It practically writes itself . . . but, just in case, more posts please. Don't worry Mike, your pooch has a recurring guest role . . . not sure if it's going to be as the hick cousin, or the goofy uncle, yet.
If you say so Milo. wouldn't want you to miss your debut as a producer. I'm thinking the title alone might make it a Fox thing though.
Kristy, oblige me, if you will...When you get home, ignore Larry. You must have somewhere you can restrict her where there's tile or something? For at least 5 minutes, or until she settles. Then take her out for a spin. Just try it a few times and let me know what happens. Don't touch her, don't talk to her, don't make eye contact with her. Just walk in and do something you need done for 5 minutes and focus on it. Yes that's from the dog whisperer but it works. Bob can go from completely psycho to totally relaxed just watching you waiting...
I have to agree with bill on the 5 minute test. Just wanted to also say as I am sure Kristy is already aware, do not ever ever use the kennel or crate as a form of punishment. That is their safe place and home if you will. Like bill said they will do everything in their power not to do badness in the place they sleep. I hope larry is doing well and i know it sounds like queenie is making a great recovery.
they will do everything in their power not to do badness in the place they sleep.
So true. My dog Homer once had something funky go through him while in his kennel and we were at work. He must have pressed his ass against the side of the cage and let her rip. There was shit all over the wall, the wife's dresser (kennel is in the b/r), and the carpet outside his kennel. He only has the tiniest little speck of crap on his fur and the rungs.
How he managed that I'll never know.
Kristy and Bill, it sounds like you both are trying your damnedest to raise a good dogs. GOOD ON YA! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
I have a couple of books on dog training and behaviour, if you want to borrow them, lmk.
So true. My dog Homer once had something funky go through him while in his kennel and we were at work. He must have pressed his ass against the side of the cage and let her rip. There was shit all over the wall, the wife's dresser (kennel is in the b/r), and the carpet outside his kennel. He only has the tiniest little speck of crap on his fur and the rungs.
How he managed that I'll never know.
Kristy and Bill, it sounds like you both are trying your damnedest to raise a good dogs. GOOD ON YA! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
I have a couple of books on dog training and behaviour, if you want to borrow them, lmk.
You guys are going to hate me after this post, but I'm going to be honest anyway.
I made the hugest mistake with Larry tonight, and I feel awful.
Since Ryan got back, 31 pound Larry sleeping on the bed has been a bit of a nightmare..I have a form of restless leg syndrome that makes my feet feel on fire at night, so her sleeping at the foot is not an option..and there simply is not enough room in my queen size bed for two adults and she. 1.5 sleepless nights have confirmed this.
I knew things needed to change, and was going to post here for suggestions..but then something awesome happened.
I unpacked Ryan's suitcase.
When I asked him to put it away, he said "meh, Larry loved to sleep on it before" He was right and I decided then to use it is a temporary dog bed.
I covered it in my extra blanket and her two ..both for extra cushioning and to make it smell like my bed and away we went.
She loved it all evening, laying on it and chewing her toys, getting praise and treats and seemed completely happy..until we got into our bed to watch a movie. She stood on her hind legs at the side of the bed 'walking' along the edge whining for someone to pick her up for an hour. We'd tell her 'no' she'd get down and go lay on her bed for a moment and then come back and repeat the process.
Finally she seemed to settle and we turned everything off and went to sleep..she woke up a few moments later and started the 'walk' over again. I lay in that 'half sleep' that you probably only know about if you're a parent..not truly awake but conscious enough to block, lest she start the next walk on my side of the bed and I get a paw in the face.
whine
paw
sidestep
whine
paw
sidestep
this goes on for hours, during my more coherent moments I say 'no' and she gets down and goes and lays on her bed or sits at the side looking at me waiting to be picked up.
Finally I fall asleep for real..and I don't know exactly what happened but I assume she tried to jump up and ended up really scratching my already in pain feet drawing blood..before I even really understand what is going I've jumped out of bed and ..
I smacked her twice, one of which landed hard enough on her bottom for my hand to tingle for a good 5-10 minutes and I scream at her.
She obviously cowers and I sit back down and take a couple minutes to figure out what the hell is going on..and realize what has just happened and that I am officially the worst dog owner in the history of dog owners.
I look over the side of the bed and see her little form curled up asleep on the floor on my side of the bed. I'll admit it, the guilt and horror over hitting a puppy that is just confused and upset that she doesn't get to sleep with me anymore is too much for me. I proceed to cry like a bitch with a skinned knee for the next half hour..and do you know what? LARRY COMES AND TRIES TO COMFORT ME..which of course only makes me cry harder.
I am a terrible person and I can't believe I did this.
Of course, I have a huge reply typed out and my computer shits the bed. Fuck it. As terrible as you feel right now, and I'm pretty sure almost everyone who has ever had a pet has felt that too, you're nowhere near the worlds worst dog owner. In short, you're not running a puppy mill, you're not organizing dog fights, and your idea of taking the dog for a walk doesn't consist of dragging him/her behind a moving car. So you'll be alright. And from the sounds of things, it seems like Larry has forgiven you.
Kristy, a mistake does not make you a terrible dog owner or person. The remorse you feel just proves that. As derrick said, I'm sure we've all made this mistake.
I remember one of my cats doing something similar when I was in high school. I had hurt my shoulder pretty badly during football and he jumped off the bed onto it. I grabbed him around the middle to get him off and squeezed waaaaaay too hard. I have never done anything like that before or ever again and have never felt that badly about anything I have done. I spent a good hour rocking back and forth crying while holding him and praying I hadn't hurt him. My mom got home, I told her what happened and we got him checked out. Everything was fine (thank god) but I have never gotten angry like that at anyone or anything ever again.
You'll remember this feeling for all of your days and it will make you a better person because you will learn from it. You're not the type of person that turns this into habit.
You're not a terrible person (well, not because of this incident, anyway). Just don't make the issue worse by going easy on Larry, and start letting her get away with stuff because you feel guilty. That helps no one, but especially not Larry.
Pack leader may not always be right, but she is always the pack leader.
This incident will actually have a positive outcome.
While striking her was bad, she still forgave you right? And when you yelled at her, she cowered and didn't challenge your authority.
You have a good dog that is NOT trying to be the alpha dog. You are the alpha/pack leader! Just keep being firm with her, and she'll learn that the bed is not her place, which is a good thing.
You made a mistake. Yes, a big one, but please learn from it and move on. We all make mistakes.
Good thing about dogs, they're very forgiving. She'll get over it.
Kristy, let me be 'firm, fair and friendly' with you (hmm, that sounds weird)..It's over with. Learn from it and move on.
Larry's Mom likely did the same thing to her in a different way to a different degree when Larry was very young. She would have done it with her teeth. Not to hurt, but to teach and direct. You took it to a different level beyond that which was necessary. That is all.
If I retained the guilt for all the similar mistakes I made with Bob when he was younger, I'd have strung myself up in a closet years ago.
Dogs require lots of patience. Sometimes to a degree that stretches beyond normal human capacity and we snap. I've done it many times in the past. You will do it again. Someday you'll be able to stop yourself, snap out of it, and change your course of action before implementing it. Bad dog owners don't have patience, don't learn and simply figure doing the same thing to a harsher degree will teach the dog something (i.e. Boy she's gonna really get it this time! That'll learn 'er.)
Larry has moved on already, and the best outcome will occur the sooner you move on.
There is no way you are a bad dog owner, simply due to the fact that you've already made the decision to change your actions in the future.
So, what are you going to do differently today/tonight in effort that Larry will be dissuaded from trying to get up on the bed?
I never did see you post anything about my suggestion the other day to try ignoring her when you get home. This was in effort to get her to relax and settle before you take her out for her walk. Did you give it a shot?
Comments
I actually think you are 100% right about the behaviour and the position she was angling for with it. She was by far the dominant female in the litter. Hopefully you want to talk more 'dog' I'm really interested to hear more about Queenie, so if you're willing, please do write more.
As for Larry and I...
We've already naturally started down the road to re-asserting my position as pack leader before I realized what some of those behaviors meant and I'm certain that she is well on the way to understanding that I am in charge. Though I'm pretty sure she thinks she's second in command, which will be funny when Ryan comes back from MN this week.
The steps I've taken: (I'd truly welcome any corrections or suggestions)
1. Basic commands: she's mastered sit, come, fetch and 90% on drop (we're now working on how to greet other people without jumping up and stay)
2. I've adopted the 'push on' attitude when she is in my way, both for the pillow and also for our walks..as she'd been jumping up a bit. I just walk on (which has lead to some gentle, but hilarious tumbles for her) or I lay down exactly where I want to be. (She gets out of the way before my head hits the pillow)
^^I'd esp love any feedback on that strategy, she's my first jumper.
3. I make her sit and hold her to stay while I place her food in her kennel, I also randomly take away things like bones, for a minute or two and reward friendly obliging behaviour. (she does not get aggressive when I do) I return the toy after a command.
4. We do not play tug of war, ever and I will not allow others to do it with her.
If you have anything to add, I'm all ears..or if you would I'd love to hear more about what you and Queenie are going through. (Or any other pet owners on the forum!)
Dogs have owners, Cats have staff . . .
Paw #1 she let me cover, but about 20 seconds later paw #2 came up and when I covered that with my other hand she did immediately pull it out and put it back on top.
LOL..I actually find cats harder to deal with..but that's probably just because Hank is a sociopath.
He actually sets traps to attack people and has figured out that you need to use the knob to open the door and has been experimentally wiggling them to get in and out since he was tall enough to stand on his hind legs and reach them.
YouTube - Yellow Lab dog loves water
I'd love to keep the thread going and talk about dogs. I suck at talking poker strategy, so at least here I can contribute! Others might bore with it, but there's always something else to read.
My thoughts:
1. Jumping when meeting people. Tell your friends to completely ignore her when you meet on the street or they enter your house. They give Larry no attention whatsoever until she's settled and calm. You should be doing this as well when you come home. Just walk in and start doing what you usually do. If she's jumping, tell your friends (or yourself) to raise their knee up enough to block her. You are NOT kneeing her in the chest, but blocking her followed up with a quick "NO".
Jumping while you're walking..I think you're doing the right thing. Forward motion, just keep moving. She jumps and tumbles, c'est la vie. She'll eventually get it. Just keep 'assertively' moving forward. When you stop, she's getting attention which is why she's jumping on you.
2. Sort of ties into what you mentioned in 1. Around your house, don't tip toe over the dog if they are in your way. Tell them to move. "Push on" as you said. If they are standing in your way, walk right through them. You're not going to hurt them, they will move. We have a friend who is a Great Dane breeder (yes, she's a pro, not a backyard breeder). At any one point in time she can have as many as 15 of these giant beasts in her home weighing between 150 and 200lb. You can't be expected to climb over them all the time as that's all you'd be doing. They move for you or they get stepped on.
3. Not much to say here. You're doing it right. You own everything, she owns nothing. She can borrow her toys, but if you want them back she gives them up immediately. Food and bones are good ones to work on this with. If there's anything they'll protect it's food and bones. Only time Bob ever growled at me was when I tried to take a bone away. If they're growling and you're not comfortable taking the object away, remove them from the object and then take it away.
4. Again, you're doing it right. Lots of people play tug of war with their dogs, and wrestle with them and it works out ok. I used to wrestle with Bob all the time. Never had a problem. But if you're dog has dominant tendencies and you haven't established that you're the boss yet... You're asking for trouble. I knew someone who said "your dog never wins battles like these. Ever. Even if you lose, you'd better act like you've won."
Considering your personality Kristy (not sayin' anything bad here), I don't think you'll have many problems you can't deal with. Always be assertive, not aggressive. Don't let little things slide, address them immediately. If you're working on training, do it in small bursts. Dogs have short attention spans. If you get frustrated, stop. If you're tired, stop. Always end training on a positive note, never on a negative. Makes it more rewarding for you and your pooch. They'll be more interested in engaging training the next time.
Queenie's doing great. She skulks and slithers around the house following me and staying out of Bob's way. She doesn't like not knowing where I am at all times. If you walk towards her she panics and backs away and hides til you go past, then follows you to wherever you go.
The big thing is that she hasn't freaked out when we've left her alone. I'm sure that'll happen at some point, and I've accepted that. Push on.
This one I have trouble with, if I don't immediately grab her from her kennel and literally carry her outside the moment I get home she piddles in excitement..and I have white carpet. Do you think just employing this strategy when others come in would be enough?
What are you thinking of trying to help bring her out of her shell? Esp. the panic and back away. Larry is a follower as well. I forget what it is like to go to washroom without an adoring audience, or wash dishes without a foot warmer.
Only one fool around here dumb enough to do that!
Carry on the doggy discussions..... I am really enjoying just listening, have had several dogs during my adult life, all of them large breeds, Sheppard, Rotweiller and Doberman. Loved everyone of them, though they're all gone now...
HEY!!! There were two of us. Although Voodoo has been absent lately . . . woof woof.
Well, if you don't change that, you've relegated yourself to always having to do the same thing (walking her) when you get home, and she is controlling that. If you absolutely need to tend to something upon your arrival you won't be able to. When she gets older she won't (hopefully) do the excitement peeing and will have more control over that. Bob (the big lad) used to go nuts when I came home. He'd literally crush everything in his path, bark like a madman, leap over the couch, try and leap over other things (tables) and knock them over. He was manic. I would madly try and gather his leash, poop bags, etc. and get out the door asap.
He controlled me. Once I figured this out, I'd sit at my computer upon arrival and wait until he mellowed and sat down to wait for me. Give yourself a specific task you need to complete before you go out like checking your email. Not necessarily responding, but at least looking at it. Something that takes enough time for her to calm down. It didn't work right away for Bob, but he eventually got it.
Your white carpets.....You've got a dog Kristy. The white carpets are unfortunate. Try putting a rug down near the front door or wherever she pees for a while. She'll eventually stop that. Who has white carpets anyways. That sounds rather Jlo'ish.
Queenie will eventually gain more confidence through routine and constantly being introduced to new things in a positive way. She's already getting used to certain things/activities around the house. She's already exploring different areas of the house without being coaxed to do so.
If there is one thing we need to maintain with Queenie it will be patience. She will most likely be a lifetime project and we've accepted that. I made MANY mistakes with Bob because I was impatient. I paid for them dearly. He almost paid for them with his life on several occasions.
Hidden beat: Bill has watched 'Maid in Manhattan'
It took my golden (Larry's mother) until she was nearly two for bladder control to catch up with excitement levels. Poor thing was felt so ashamed and guilty when it happened, but she was just so thrilled to see everybody that she leaked a little.
Funny story is that she (mom) barks whenever the baby needs to go out. She knows and doesn't want anyone to be upset or in trouble.
That's interesting about the two year old still doing that. I have heard of that a few times, but it's fairly rare.
So, took Queenie on her first car ride with Bob. Told the gf to drive and if a major fight broke out in the back of the civic I'd be climbing back there to deal with it. Seemed to enjoy it. A friend is a dog trainer and he was having a big dog walk with all the dogs from his class. Asked him if it would be ok if we just tagged along to expose her to a new experience. She did well. She was scared shitless at some points and just shook with fear. It's interesting because she has no fear of other dogs after having lived in a rescue for 1.5 yrs. Minor scrap started..she couldn't care less. It's things like cars going by, the beeping of the 'ok to walk' signal, etc.
Dropped by Sobeys on the way home. Queenie, Bob and myself waited in the car. One of the staff was doing the shopping cart train through the parking lot. I thought Queenie was having a heart attack from the sound of the wheels.
She is kennel trained, but is not in it for long periods of time. I went to one Bristol for about 5hrs..which was the longest stint. I put her in it every day for one hour while we eat dinner, I put her food dish in there and she gets all her treats in it. TBH I've been even more of a shut in since I got her than usual..so there isn't much cause to use it.
Her mother was not kennel trained and had the same problem, I'm guessing it is more genetics.
I assume you've mentioned this to the vet when you've taken her? Not that it's a physical problem necessarily, just a question.
People do change their activities when they get a dog, but don't let them control your life by not going out. I did that. Made the separation anxiety worse. With Queenie we've been working harder than ever to go out for short durations of time frequently. Get her used to being alone in the house with Bob.
Mike, I loved that vid of your pooch launching into the water! That was awesome! No fear!
Yesterday, Queenie had her first sustained smile and wag since we got her. Wagged for at least 5 seconds before going out for a third walk for the day. Today more wagging after we came back from the stormy, icy, LOUD, lots of smells....beach! Very happy for her.
Realized today that Bob's buddy..a little stuffed fox he's had for years now will have to be put away. He covets the thing like it's his own soul. Always has. Goes nuts if he can't find it. I thought it might be a problem but hoped different. Today he had it in his mouth and she just looked at it. He freaked out a bit and seriously told her to fuck off. Over quickly, but still it kind of sealed the deal. He can have his buddy back on occasion as a treat, but for now we can't leave his toys out. Not fair to Queenie.
Anyhoo, glad to see the thread continue today. Wasn't planning on keeping it going if people were getting bored of hearing about Larry and Queenie. Glad to see there are lots of dog loving poker players out there.
Larry and Queenie . . . a story of two bitches that just needed a hug.
It practically writes itself . . . but, just in case, more posts please. Don't worry Mike, your pooch has a recurring guest role . . . not sure if it's going to be as the hick cousin, or the goofy uncle, yet.
Kristy, oblige me, if you will...When you get home, ignore Larry. You must have somewhere you can restrict her where there's tile or something? For at least 5 minutes, or until she settles. Then take her out for a spin. Just try it a few times and let me know what happens. Don't touch her, don't talk to her, don't make eye contact with her. Just walk in and do something you need done for 5 minutes and focus on it. Yes that's from the dog whisperer but it works. Bob can go from completely psycho to totally relaxed just watching you waiting...
So true. My dog Homer once had something funky go through him while in his kennel and we were at work. He must have pressed his ass against the side of the cage and let her rip. There was shit all over the wall, the wife's dresser (kennel is in the b/r), and the carpet outside his kennel. He only has the tiniest little speck of crap on his fur and the rungs.
How he managed that I'll never know.
Kristy and Bill, it sounds like you both are trying your damnedest to raise a good dogs. GOOD ON YA! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!
I have a couple of books on dog training and behaviour, if you want to borrow them, lmk.
I think i just messed my own kennel.
I made the hugest mistake with Larry tonight, and I feel awful.
Since Ryan got back, 31 pound Larry sleeping on the bed has been a bit of a nightmare..I have a form of restless leg syndrome that makes my feet feel on fire at night, so her sleeping at the foot is not an option..and there simply is not enough room in my queen size bed for two adults and she. 1.5 sleepless nights have confirmed this.
I knew things needed to change, and was going to post here for suggestions..but then something awesome happened.
I unpacked Ryan's suitcase.
When I asked him to put it away, he said "meh, Larry loved to sleep on it before" He was right and I decided then to use it is a temporary dog bed.
I covered it in my extra blanket and her two ..both for extra cushioning and to make it smell like my bed and away we went.
She loved it all evening, laying on it and chewing her toys, getting praise and treats and seemed completely happy..until we got into our bed to watch a movie. She stood on her hind legs at the side of the bed 'walking' along the edge whining for someone to pick her up for an hour. We'd tell her 'no' she'd get down and go lay on her bed for a moment and then come back and repeat the process.
Finally she seemed to settle and we turned everything off and went to sleep..she woke up a few moments later and started the 'walk' over again. I lay in that 'half sleep' that you probably only know about if you're a parent..not truly awake but conscious enough to block, lest she start the next walk on my side of the bed and I get a paw in the face.
whine
paw
sidestep
whine
paw
sidestep
this goes on for hours, during my more coherent moments I say 'no' and she gets down and goes and lays on her bed or sits at the side looking at me waiting to be picked up.
Finally I fall asleep for real..and I don't know exactly what happened but I assume she tried to jump up and ended up really scratching my already in pain feet drawing blood..before I even really understand what is going I've jumped out of bed and ..
I smacked her twice, one of which landed hard enough on her bottom for my hand to tingle for a good 5-10 minutes and I scream at her.
She obviously cowers and I sit back down and take a couple minutes to figure out what the hell is going on..and realize what has just happened and that I am officially the worst dog owner in the history of dog owners.
I look over the side of the bed and see her little form curled up asleep on the floor on my side of the bed. I'll admit it, the guilt and horror over hitting a puppy that is just confused and upset that she doesn't get to sleep with me anymore is too much for me. I proceed to cry like a bitch with a skinned knee for the next half hour..and do you know what? LARRY COMES AND TRIES TO COMFORT ME..which of course only makes me cry harder.
I am a terrible person and I can't believe I did this.
I remember one of my cats doing something similar when I was in high school. I had hurt my shoulder pretty badly during football and he jumped off the bed onto it. I grabbed him around the middle to get him off and squeezed waaaaaay too hard. I have never done anything like that before or ever again and have never felt that badly about anything I have done. I spent a good hour rocking back and forth crying while holding him and praying I hadn't hurt him. My mom got home, I told her what happened and we got him checked out. Everything was fine (thank god) but I have never gotten angry like that at anyone or anything ever again.
You'll remember this feeling for all of your days and it will make you a better person because you will learn from it. You're not the type of person that turns this into habit.
We all still love you
Pack leader may not always be right, but she is always the pack leader.
While striking her was bad, she still forgave you right? And when you yelled at her, she cowered and didn't challenge your authority.
You have a good dog that is NOT trying to be the alpha dog. You are the alpha/pack leader! Just keep being firm with her, and she'll learn that the bed is not her place, which is a good thing.
You made a mistake. Yes, a big one, but please learn from it and move on. We all make mistakes.
Good thing about dogs, they're very forgiving. She'll get over it.
Larry's Mom likely did the same thing to her in a different way to a different degree when Larry was very young. She would have done it with her teeth. Not to hurt, but to teach and direct. You took it to a different level beyond that which was necessary. That is all.
If I retained the guilt for all the similar mistakes I made with Bob when he was younger, I'd have strung myself up in a closet years ago.
Dogs require lots of patience. Sometimes to a degree that stretches beyond normal human capacity and we snap. I've done it many times in the past. You will do it again. Someday you'll be able to stop yourself, snap out of it, and change your course of action before implementing it. Bad dog owners don't have patience, don't learn and simply figure doing the same thing to a harsher degree will teach the dog something (i.e. Boy she's gonna really get it this time! That'll learn 'er.)
Larry has moved on already, and the best outcome will occur the sooner you move on.
There is no way you are a bad dog owner, simply due to the fact that you've already made the decision to change your actions in the future.
So, what are you going to do differently today/tonight in effort that Larry will be dissuaded from trying to get up on the bed?
I never did see you post anything about my suggestion the other day to try ignoring her when you get home. This was in effort to get her to relax and settle before you take her out for her walk. Did you give it a shot?