Addition to the wolf pack..
So, per request of Kristy (who always gets what she wants), here's a trip report of our newest member of the pack....Queenie.
No, we didn't pick the name, and no we're not going to change it.
She's from a rescue near Owen Sound. First year of her life, basically no human contact. She lived in a pen outside with her dominant sister. Queenie basically got what scraps her sister left for her and not much else. They eventually escaped and ended up at the rescue. Queenie lived at the rescue for 1.5yrs. until yesterday when we took her home. Her sister got adopted out quite a while back, thus taking away the only stability in life Queenie ever had. Queenie got adopted out at one point for 3 days. Returned on 4th day. Adopter spent every waking hour with her for 3 days, went out for groceries (1/2hr), didn't crate her, came home to no curtains, destroyed lots of other stuff. Adopters fault, not Queenie's.
So, she's mentally incredibly unstable. Massive separation anxiety. Absolutely terrified of everything. Moving from the country to the massive metropolitan behemoth known as Kincardine freaks her out. Seeing people walking towards her on the sidewalk makes her lie down and shake. Someone turns on their porch lights, she jumps. Car door closes, she jumps. Thankfully no aggression issues, and hasn't displayed fear aggression at this point. Unlikely to do so in my opinion.
Got her to the house, met big Bob (our other dog) outside first, brought them both in. She explored a bit and eventually spent the evening in her crate observing everything going on (you know, the hot sex, snorting blow off each others nipples, the regular stuff guys and their girlfriends do in smalltown Ontario).
Today she's spending most of the time out of her kennel. She knows Bob is alpha, twice her size and is staying the hell out of his way. In pack order, she's on the absolute bottom. She's bonding well with both the gf and myself. She's decided that her favourite spot is hiding beside me in the office beside my desk.
I'm quite sure this is going to be one of the biggest challenges in dog ownership I've ever taken on. She's mentally very seriously fucked up. But, I like challenges like this and didn't want to see her spend her life in a rescue in what was the closest thing to an old style prison cell I've seen in a long time.
So, there ya go Kristy. Pretty long tr and I'm sorry for that (not really). Probably could have gone on longer. Didn't want to see the tldr's.
No, we didn't pick the name, and no we're not going to change it.
She's from a rescue near Owen Sound. First year of her life, basically no human contact. She lived in a pen outside with her dominant sister. Queenie basically got what scraps her sister left for her and not much else. They eventually escaped and ended up at the rescue. Queenie lived at the rescue for 1.5yrs. until yesterday when we took her home. Her sister got adopted out quite a while back, thus taking away the only stability in life Queenie ever had. Queenie got adopted out at one point for 3 days. Returned on 4th day. Adopter spent every waking hour with her for 3 days, went out for groceries (1/2hr), didn't crate her, came home to no curtains, destroyed lots of other stuff. Adopters fault, not Queenie's.
So, she's mentally incredibly unstable. Massive separation anxiety. Absolutely terrified of everything. Moving from the country to the massive metropolitan behemoth known as Kincardine freaks her out. Seeing people walking towards her on the sidewalk makes her lie down and shake. Someone turns on their porch lights, she jumps. Car door closes, she jumps. Thankfully no aggression issues, and hasn't displayed fear aggression at this point. Unlikely to do so in my opinion.
Got her to the house, met big Bob (our other dog) outside first, brought them both in. She explored a bit and eventually spent the evening in her crate observing everything going on (you know, the hot sex, snorting blow off each others nipples, the regular stuff guys and their girlfriends do in smalltown Ontario).
Today she's spending most of the time out of her kennel. She knows Bob is alpha, twice her size and is staying the hell out of his way. In pack order, she's on the absolute bottom. She's bonding well with both the gf and myself. She's decided that her favourite spot is hiding beside me in the office beside my desk.
I'm quite sure this is going to be one of the biggest challenges in dog ownership I've ever taken on. She's mentally very seriously fucked up. But, I like challenges like this and didn't want to see her spend her life in a rescue in what was the closest thing to an old style prison cell I've seen in a long time.
So, there ya go Kristy. Pretty long tr and I'm sorry for that (not really). Probably could have gone on longer. Didn't want to see the tldr's.
Comments
Sure her name really isn't Kristy.
( says Hobbes as he runs for the hills
And nice of you to do this Bill. Not sure that I would have the patience anymore.
3 time zones away
A+ TR would read more if you updated it, thanks for taking the time!
(I don't have any reason for quoting that part other than that it makes me happy in and around the pants)
I actually impressed myself in terms of my ability to get to them, stand over them and yell "STOP" within about 1/4 of a second! GF was impressed at my speed and agility! Both retreated to their respective corners of the room, although the little girl did try and climb over my head to get up on the bed for safety. Of course that can't happen. She lives life on life's terms and that's the floor. That's why she's got feet.
Anyhoo, they're figuring out pack order and that's a good thing. She's unstable and my opinion is that Bob is treating her like shit because she's the weak link in our chain. That's not his option, it's mine and he will learn that over time. Nature is never kind to the sick, weak or unstable. She'll gain confidence over time and stability will increase when she learns the routine.
Both of us are having a tough time right now because we can't give her any affection until she becomes stable. She's very cute, but you can't reinforce her insecurities by praising her and babying her right now. That will come later when she's more situated.
Anyhoo, I'm just using this thread as a sort of dog blog. If people read it, great. If not, great. Any comments, questions, suggestions are welcome.
Yes, at some point I will completely embarrass myself by putting a picture of myself on the internet wearing that shirt with Queenie.
Walking her with Bob often will ultimately be the best thing for her in terms of gaining confidence. The more new things (cars, doors closing, other people, other dogs, etc.) she experiences in a positive way will help her gain confidence. Praising her (eventually, not now), when she deals with situations appropriately and positively will also accomplish this.
Taking her to a puppy class will also help her. She has ZERO skills in terms of understanding commands. Despite the fact she's 2.5yrs. old, she is realistically at the same level as a puppy. She doesn't know 'sit', 'come' or any of the basics. What she knows is how to survive. Find the alpha guy (or girl) in the room and stick to him like glue. That is safe, and that's what she does at this point.
Kristy, I can't recommend anything better than taking Larry to an obedience class appropriate for her age group. I made lots of mistakes with Bob, and topped it off by not doing this until he was 5. Best investment in him I've ever made. He learned little, I learned lots. That's what those classes are for.
Larry on the bed: I did manage to do this with Bob when I got him. It wasn't the smartest idea, but in the end it worked out well. I don't think we can allow this anymore with Queenie in the picture though. They are both dogs and have to be treated the same way. The floor is where they live. Bob was always allowed on the bed. The couch is/was mine. He tries to get on the couch, kick him the fuck off (not literally). Quickly and decisively.
Allowing Larry on the bed can potentially backfire horribly. Messes up pack order. The bed is where you sleep and you are the leader, but if you let her up there...you're telling her she's on par with you. I've heard of many situations where people actually ended up sleeping on couches because their dogs took over and owned the bed. You try and go to bed and they growl and bare teeth. You taught them this was ok by confusing the leadership role. When dogs don't know who the leader is, they take over. Someone has to or the pack crashes. Dogs don't want to lead. Too much stress and decisions. You live in a human world with human situations. You make dogs make human decisions and you'll quickly figure out you live in a disaster if things go wrong.
Short answer (too late, already gave long answer): No dog trainer will tell you it's a good idea to let Larry on the bed. I know lots of dog trainers who secretly don't follow their own rules and do this though. They are aware of the potential consequences and deal with them as they arise. If you are prepared to deal with the potential consequences, know your dog well and she knows you're her leader...it's up to you. You're gambling.
Wow, I'm feeling 'typey' today. Thank you grade nine typing.
I realize now that letting her sleep in the bed may have been the cause of some of the weird behaviors she'd been exhibiting.. (I think she believes my pillow is the leader place to be..and she'd been trying to usurp the spot every night/takes it the moment I wake up) I actually had to throw out my first pillow when I pushed it off the bed in the middle of the night and she peed on it.
She peed on it....she's declaring ownership of it. That is a very dominant behaviour, and you may very well have a very young alpha dog. Dominant dogs always piss on their turf. She's telling you "Fuck you, this pillow's mine." Next could be the bed. She's young and the best investment you can make right now is to dominate her completely. Don't crush her spirit, alphas don't do that, they lead. But do not allow her to own anything that's yours.
An old guard in a max security prison in BC told me something I always remembered, and funny enough it applies as a guide to dog ownership perfectly:
"You want to do well in here Bill, remember this...4F's. I am Firm. I am fair. I am friendly. You will never Fuck with me."
I have never had a problem with any dog that I've had with sleeping on the bed or jumping on the couch. The dog I have right now 90% of the time will sleep on my bed. He will move to where my pillows are, but I fix that by calling him to the foot of the bed and that's where he lays all night. And he also knows that he's not allowed on the couch, and never tries to get up, so I really don't think it's one in the same here. Obviously, Bill in your situation it's a lot different as you have two dogs and they will have the "if he can go up there so can I" mentality. If you set the boundaries, they will understand them.
I love Caesar..he's so cute!
The panties doesnt suprise me. The bra's is kinda odd though i have never heard that one b4, its usually socks and panties when they are young. This is something thats always been an issue in past with dogs i have had. Its my opinion that they like these things because of the scent on them. You need to discipline him/her (yes i know some ppl wont like that i said that) but unless you want to be forced to buy new garments on a weekly basis you are best to let the dog know who is boss and who those things belong too.
The crazy thing is that once she gets a hold of them she does no damage to them at all..she just parades them around the house for a bit and then leaves them where ever she ended up lying down.
:bs:
We all know Kristy doesn't wear panties.
Or, well, you never know
fine. "Thongs" happy now?
Are you sure it's the dog? Where's Phillivey?
Yes! Yes! dicipline and dicipline early, otherwise you do a great injustice to the dog.....now it's a year and a half old and the poor thing does not know why he is being scolded because YOU can't take it any more. I've seen this many times, anyway couldn't agree more.
Here's a cute pic, if you can see it, his name was Tyrone.Attachment not found.Attachment not found.
confirmed imo
also: before I end my Larry-Hijack (sorry Bill, I'm like a retarded new parent..I just can't stop myself!)
I did watch alot of dog whisperer. It's a good show. I don't think the guy is a god like some people I know, but I take a lot of good information from him. Some I dismiss.
I think we agree Mike. I allowed my dog up on the bed for 6 years. Never a problem. I think it can become a serious problem in some dogs if dominance is an issue though. Bob had dominance issues when I first got him. We worked that out.
In general though, no trainer will tell you to allow it. They might say if you are comfortable with it....and no issues arise...then maybe... Of course they might even do it themselves, but they are monitoring their dogs behaviour all the time.
Near the top of the list of things removed from the stomach of a dog during surgery are socks, underwear, bones and rocks. Nothing smells more like you than yer undies and yer socks. Your dog loves you Kristy and your dog loves to chew on things. Combine the two and you've instantly got a healthy supply of crotchless panties. It keeps them occupied.
My buddies daughter had her first period a while back. In order to completely embarrass her, their retriever chose to get into the garbage and drag her 'feminine hygiene products' all over the house for all to see. I don't think she'll ever recover from this.
Not to worry about any hijack Kristy. This is all good stuff. For obvious reasons I'm immersing myself in dog culture once again (I've had it easy for the last number of years and need to get into 'new dog' headspace again), and for the next while (not on here, I'm sure that would get boring for most.) I'll probably be talking about dogs for most of the day.
Tonight I'll be going to a house for a poker game. There is over 400lb of dog at the house. One 150lb. Great Dane, one 150lb of St. Bernard, one 100lb. Dane/Lab cross. If I'm lucky there'll be another 200lb. Dane visiting. He's cool and he's got balls the size of churchbells!
Pics or gtfo
Anyhoo, ever see two dogs fighting or challenging each other? They jockey for position and put their neck and head over the other dogs neck. That's dominant behaviour. My dog has a little fuzzy buddy he takes wherever he goes. When he lies down he puts the buddy in front of him and puts his head over it.
Dogs will pin each other by lying on top of one another in a fight.
Kristy try this. Does Larry ever come up to you when your sitting in a chair, and put her paw on your leg for attention? If so, next time put your open hand over her paw and see what happens. I will put money on the fact that she'll pull her paw away and put it back on top of yours.
Position is everything to dogs in terms of dominance. It's a form of communication.
Your dog pissed on your pillow in the past and is now owning it. If she ever growls at you while on the bed, I'd remove her from the bed and not let her back.
Just sayin'. Maybe it's all bullshit.