guarding against aces?

Today I've suffered more bad beats than I have in a long time, I lost 5 hands to pocket aces holding kk, 99, ak,kj and 66 turned into a set. Any tips on how not to loose your whole stack in this situation when you think you're holding the best hand?
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Comments

  • make sure the shiny side is out
  • Richard~ wrote: »
    Any tips on how not to loose your whole stack in this situation when you think you're holding the best hand?

    No...
  • Richard~ wrote: »
    Today I've suffered more bad beats than I have in a long time, I lost 5 hands to pocket aces holding kk, 99, ak,kj and 66 turned into a set. Any tips on how not to loose your whole stack in this situation when you think you're holding the best hand?

    I swear to baby jesus this is my biggest pet peeve in life
  • Then, no offense GTA, but you need a new life.

    As for the OP, if you think you're ahead, why WOULDN'T you want to get your chips in the middle?!?
  • It seems that 1/2 the posters on the internet never passed grade 4 English -- homonyms, look them up.

    As for the original question it would seem that you are calling raises with hands that play poorly for a raise -- AJ, KJ, etc... and are not experienced enough to get away from top pair. Until you become more comfortable with reads/betting patterns then do not play marginal hands in raised pots.
  • GTA Poker wrote: »
    It seems that 1/2 the posters on the internet never passed grade 4.

    Fixed it for you, GTA. Seriously, though, try decaf . . .
  • Richard~ wrote: »
    Today I've suffered more bad beats than I have in a long time, I lost 5 hands to pocket aces holding kk, 99, ak,kj and 66 turned into a set. Any tips on how not to loose your whole stack in this situation when you think you're holding the best hand?

    How are they bad beats when you were behind? 99, KJ, and AK (after the flop without a hit), are nothing special. The set loss, unlucky. Better reads maybe? Without hand history, it is hard to tell anything that is going wrong...
  • I think my few succesful reads are working against me when it comes to this. A few tourneys ago I played a big pot, I held JT off suit on the small blind and many players limp in, I call and BB pushes all in with about one third of my chips, everyone folds to me, I call thinking he has a middle pair and he turns over 77, I take down pot.

    Another time that's not working for me here was when I held aq, small stac goes all in, I call, average stack goes all in behind me, for 18 BB's more, I fold and he flips over 69 off suit, original raiser takes down pot.

    KJ I could have avoided easily but raiser was a really small stack. KK was very hard to avoid, I was in an early position, kinda short stacked. I limp in knowing people almost always raise something preflop, player raises to 2,5 BB, I reraise all in and get crushed. I wasn't sure I was holding the best hand but I felt very confident I was.The bland set would have been easy to avoid but ak would have been harder. I guess I just have to work on my reads.

    Edit: AK and KJ had a hit btw, and 99 didn't have any overcards
  • Well, it finally happened...I folded pkt AA's preflop in a live game. never thought i would do it, but felt i had to. Was in a private game/tourney last nite, 2,500 buy-in, 20 players. Down to final 3 (paying spots). I am BB and severly short stacked against other 2. Player 1 makes substantial raise, next guy goes reraises and goes all in. My first instict was to call, but then i thought about consequences. If i lose, i am out in 3rd and win 5k, i figure player 1 will call the reraise putting them both in and my shot at 2nd place(for 15k) a better odd. Sure enuff, player 1 calls and flips KK, other guy flips AQ suited..Flop is 8 9 Q...Turn is a K...River is a 8 .....Taking player 2 out for 3rd spot, leaving me drastically short stacked but a solid 2nd finish for 15k. The chance i took in folding payed off. Thank the pokergods for that one!!!! Heading out today to go pick up that 56" LCD i've had my eye on for the last 6 months. LOL
  • That is the worst fold ever. That fold may have cost you $10k (diff btwn 1st and 2nd).

    The only time you can ever justify folding AA is on a satty bubble.

    Oh and btw, you've been eyeing up a 56" LCD and you can buy into a $2500 tourney. hmmmm
  • OPRC wrote: »
    Well, it finally happened...I folded pkt AA's preflop in a live game. never thought i would do it, but felt i had to. Was in a private game/tourney last nite, 2,500 buy-in, 20 players. Down to final 3 (paying spots). I am BB and severly short stacked against other 2. Player 1 makes substantial raise, next guy goes reraises and goes all in. My first instict was to call, but then i thought about consequences. If i lose, i am out in 3rd and win 5k, i figure player 1 will call the reraise putting them both in and my shot at 2nd place(for 15k) a better odd. Sure enuff, player 1 calls and flips KK, other guy flips AQ suited..Flop is 8 9 Q...Turn is a K...River is a 8 .....Taking player 2 out for 3rd spot, leaving me drastically short stacked but a solid 2nd finish for 15k. The chance i took in folding payed off. Thank the pokergods for that one!!!! Heading out today to go pick up that 56" LCD i've had my eye on for the last 6 months. LOL

    Wow... way to make that 30% chance pay off.. personally I'm a fan of getting my money in 70% ahead.

    Mark
  • Yeah I hate having the chance at winning a tournament too.....

    But in all seriousness can people stop complaining how their AA loses. Its one GOD DAMN PAIR....THERE ARE 5 COMMUNITY CARDS....IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN SOONER OR LATER.

    I want to know why my Quads always lose to a straight flush and how I can protect against that....
  • The latter example with AA may be a correct fold if the chip stack was so badly short that even winning a 3 way all in will not give him a viable shot. Something like stack 1 is 25,000 stack 2 is 18,000 stack 3 is 220 then the fold is ok.


    My gut feel is probably it was a pretty bad fold in this situation.


    To the OP of the thread, no one cares about your type of bad beat whine, post it in the bad beat section, so at least it will be in the right area where again no one will really care about it. Fold aces preflop and you will never lose or "loose" with them, hence no bad beats.
  • Everyone started game with 10,000 in chips...i had a little under 20,000...the other 2 had the remaining 180,000...so in that situation..i didn't think a call would have paid off in the chip count in the end..even with a win i would have had under 60,000 against 140,000+, but i was thinking more of the end result and payouts.
    Hobbes...As for the t.v thing..LOL..i have an older 65" regular big screen in the living room whose bulbs and picture have slowly started to deteriorate, so i figure time for an upgrade...plus with the LCD, i can hook up my laptop to it for one hell of an online poker experience. LOL
  • Hobbes wrote: »
    That is the worst fold ever.
    without a lot more info, this is an irresponsible statement

    oprc has provided some more info, a bit more is needed. what were the blinds and antes? just looking at nash equilibrium, calling is marginal at low blinds but gets progressively worse as these climb.

    basically, you gave up a 40+% shot at an extra 20k for a 90+% shot at an extra 10k. we can argue the % but it is somewhere it that ballpark. not a terrible fold - other factors would weight the decision one way or the other.
  • OPRC wrote: »
    Well, it finally happened...I folded pkt AA's preflop in a live game. ...

    PokerJah is that you? :)


    I don't think I would of made that decision, even with the chip counts you gave in a later post. At that point being short-stacked, and holding AA, that's exactly the situation I'd be hoping for. I would of had a progressivly harder decision the more people who are all in, and if it was a bubble situation, still think I'd be getting felt burn on my hands from pushing the chips in.
  • pkrfce9 wrote: »
    without a lot more info, this is an irresponsible statement

    I based my statement on the information provided. Still don't think a fold was good here. I think he thought the fold was good cause he saw the results.

    I'll take my chances for the extra 15k in prize money
  • Blinds were 500/1000 with a 100 ante. I went over and over the whole scenario in my head after the game was done, and felt i made the right choice. Not just because it actually worked and got me 2nd spot for an extra 10k, but the entire situation. Had i not been so short stacked...i would have to agree with dave, the friction from the sheer speed of pushing all in would have caused the felt to catch fire. But considering i was so short stacked, even a win would have kept me at a huge chip disadvantage for the remainder, or, had i actually made the call and lost in 3rd, then this post woulda been put in the "severe bad beats" section with everyone saying...in that situation, ya shoulda folded and grabbed 2nd spot for the extra 10k. LOL
  • OPRC wrote: »
    Everyone started game with 10,000 in chips...i had a little under 20,000...the other 2 had the remaining 180,000...so in that situation..i didn't think a call would have paid off in the chip count in the end..even with a win i would have had under 60,000 against 140,000+, but i was thinking more of the end result and payouts.
    Hobbes...As for the t.v thing..LOL..i have an older 65" regular big screen in the living room whose bulbs and picture have slowly started to deteriorate, so i figure time for an upgrade...plus with the LCD, i can hook up my laptop to it for one hell of an online poker experience. LOL

    the bolded part makes this very misleading. You cannot say that your are 60k vs 140k when the 140k is split between 2 players. Hell you could have had 60k to their 70k each.

    hmmmm.....
  • OPRC wrote: »
    Blinds were 500/1000 with a 100 ante.

    ummm 500/1000/100 w 20k....not exactly short there are ya.
    again you did not specify what the other 2 stacks were.
  • Player1 had about 7-10k left after he called the others all in..so..by that...i would say player 1 had approximately 90-100k...other with about 75-80k...approx.
  • oh...and next blind increase was in about 15-20 mins. going to 750/1500 and 150 ante
  • Ran some scenerios through SnG Wizard (yes it works for MTTs also) and even if both players shove the +EV move is to call off your Aces.

    Now with KK it's a fold.
    Assuming one of the players is eliminated....
    If you win, you have 60k against 140k only behind 2.5:1 and that's not a bad place to be HU (with an M of 35)
  • when you say to call off the aces...do ya mean to call em...or fold em....just not sure which meaning you mean. LOL
  • OPRC wrote: »
    when you say to call off the aces...do ya mean to call em...or fold em....just not sure which meaning you mean. LOL

    I'm all in.....
  • ahhh ok. Well..i thought what i did at that particular moment was a decent strategy. And fortunately it payed off, had it gone the other way and the shorter of the 2 stacks winning, then it would have been a totally different ball game after the hand. Hmmmm...i wonder if they would notice if i played with one of those mini laptops on my lap running that program you mentioned. LOL
  • OPRC wrote: »
    Hmmmm...i wonder if they would notice if i played with one of those mini laptops on my lap running that program you mentioned. LOL

    It's an excellent training tool and can be used to validate your play AFTER is happens.
    All I did was run some scenerios to see if there would be a time to fold AA here.
  • pkrfce9 wrote: »
    just looking at nash equilibrium, calling is marginal at low blinds but gets progressively worse as these climb.
    i worded this awkwardly. at low blinds, folding is slightly -$ev and as the blinds climb folding becomes progressively worse.

    with all the info now present, pushing here was the correct move. not in a 'man, you should give up poker you are so bad' kind of way but it would have been moderately +$ev. of course, in this case, folding paid off. nice laydown. i'm curious what the other guy was thinking of, getting all in with AQs for something close to 90xbb. he is the guy who should be giving up poker. make sure he gets a very nice christmas card from you this year. maybe a pound cake, too.
  • From what i know of the other 2 players, player 1 i have played with several times and he is a very good player. So with him i know for him to make a large raise preflop, he is holding something very good. As for the other guy, i didn't really know him or his style of play well...but from what i saw of his plays earlier, he seemed rather wreckless and tried to steal many a blind. Which seemed to work for him through out the game. So for him to go all in on that hand, i would have put him on trying to steal the raise, but he did have AQ suited, which for a 3 player hand is a pretty good call. Had he known i had the pkts, i doubt he would have made that all-in call, but i will be sure to remind him at X-mas time. LOL
  • Yes, that was a strange situation, and given that the other 2 stacks were close in size, your play was not really that bad, though I call since you did have a stack that could do fine heads up if you won the 3 way all in. I certainly fold QQ in a heartbeat in that spot, and probably shake my head as I fold KK (which apparently is correct).

    I suspect your play even if it was a slight error paled compared to the error someone else had to have made in the hand to allow you to make the play you did. Hope you could follow that :)


    I have seen some people do strange mistakes with good hands they should have folded, more in Omaha (where AAxx hands are great but now as overpowering).

    Saw a person with 30 chips on the button in a DoN (no antes in Omaha) put his 30 chips all in with his AAQQ. This was after 4 limps because the BB was also all in already having started with 300ish chips. Well, the AAQQ was certainly the nicest hand preflop, but not post flop, so both he and the BB got eliminated and the BB pulled off one of the happiest 5ths ever probably.

    Had AAQQ boy won the hand outright the only time it would have mattered is if the BB guy finished second in the hand and was still alive, and in that scenario he no longer has a bad stack so everyone can wait till AAQQ boys BB at the longest since he would only have 180 chips then.

    Your situation was hardly as extreme, but I cannot really find too much fault with your AA fold, and for what it is worth that was a much more interesting hand to discuss then any of the OPs ramblehands...
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