Ok, thanks guys. I had kinda thought that if I got to that point where the money started to mean something (step 5/6) that I would consider selling however the chance to win one of those packages would be likely prevent me from doing so (and of course, the fact that you can't).
I won a step 2 via an fpp sat. and then went on to win my way into step 3 (only worth $82 right now) on my first try. We'll see where it takes me...
As I said before, For almost everyone Steps are a truly awful deal.
Unless you're someone like Watts or Ryan who can win a step 6 you should not play steps.
Well, I'll never know unless I try I guess. I've played with Watts several times, we all had to start somewhere and I believe that he still puts his pants on one legs at a time....he just wins wpt tournaments once they're on
Getting into this steps was spending 60fpp to enter the 100 person sng where top gets entry into level 2 and 2-9 get entry to level 1. I usually spend my fpp on low return sats like this one. I find it's more worthwhile then waiting untill I have enough to buy the Cayenne.
My friend started his poker career winning a steps to an EWSOP and the Party Million -- finished 2nd in the EWSOP, sold the Party package and now is ranked #1 mtt player in Canada, top 15 in the world...not bad.
As I said before, For almost everyone Steps are a truly awful deal.
Agreed. I look forward to going to war for online satellites to the WPT NAPC, BCPC and other non-US withholding-free events, but I wouldn't touch the obscenely-raked -EV PokerStars six Steps SNGs with a 10-foot mouse!
Anyway, good luck to stpboy. Remember, the all-in button is your friend!
Party Million -- finished 2nd in the EWSOP, sold the Party package and now is ranked #1 mtt :(player in Canada, top 15 in the world...
Is that Negreanu or Gavin Smith? The Party satellite structures are much better than PokerStars Steps. I don't like playing any satellites though where there is no cash option for the accommodation/flight so the organizer can take much more money away from the players' prize pool for the inflated package than what it would cost to pay on my own. So except for special satellites that I can't refuse such as the CPT Finals in tax-free Dominican Republic paradise with $100K overlay, I think I'll stick to cash tournaments for now.
I actually don't find the structure to bad. I play almost exclusively turbos on stars and mostly 6 -max so I suppose it fits my game fairly well. I generally find that most players over play their hands, the key to winning turbos is capitalizing on your bigs hands, which can be said about all games however I think this is easier to do in turbos.
After re-reading, perhaps you were talking about tournament structure and not blind structure....
thanks for the gl, I'll let you know if this goes anywhere.
My friend started his poker career winning a steps to an EWSOP and the Party Million -- finished 2nd in the EWSOP, sold the Party package and now is ranked #1 mtt player in Canada, top 15 in the world...not bad.
For the top 15 people in the world, steps makes sense.
For everyone who's not world class ...
Sometimes the lamb may kill the butcher but I wouldn't bet on it.
Can somebody confirm that the Step SNGs have 10 players (not 9)? Can somebody please post PokerStars' satellite blind schedule? I like playing PartyPoker's 3000-chip satellites with 20/40 starting blinds, but I have been strongly advised to open an account with PokerStars to try to find the poker donkey in me, so I want to compare the satellite structures.
Can somebody confirm that the Step 6 10-player satellite for Copenhagen only has two prizes - the $12,535 package and $3,000 cash for second place? With the direct buy-in at $2,100 for each of ten players, this would mean the rake is an unbeatable 26% ($5465 / $21,000)! In contrast, the Step 6 for EPT Monte Carlo has a rake of only 4.8%, as only $1,000 of the $21,000 buy-ins is taken away. If this information from the EPT Steps page is not a typo, then PokerStars Steps are even worse than what ReefAquarium ever imagined!
Sorry dude, but I don't have a PokerStars account. I am trying to find out about its satellite structures to see if I should bother making an opening deposit, but from what I can tell so far and from a 2+2 thread, PokerStars satellites could be a rip-off.
Buddy, your a very good poker player, forget about the rake. The rake is ultimately insignificant if your consistantly winning. I think your giving up way too much EV or opportunital winnings by not playing on stars just because they might be taking a bit more $ than Party or wherever.
I think the high level 6 rake has to do to deter top players from just buying into level 6 and winning. Last year bustosoon won a ton of these, can't remember the final count.
Can somebody confirm that the Step 6 10-player satellite for Copenhagen only has two prizes - the $12,535 package and $3,000 cash for second place? With the direct buy-in at $2,100 for each of ten players, this would mean the rake is an unbeatable 26% ($5465 / $21,000)! In contrast, the Step 6 for EPT Monte Carlo has a rake of only 4.8%, as only $1,000 of the $21,000 buy-ins is taken away. If this information from the EPT Steps page is not a typo, then PokerStars Steps are even worse than what ReefAquarium ever imagined!
That EPT Steps page is full of errors (really bad idea). I'm looking at a Copenhagen Step 6 lobby right now. The real numbers are:
9 players x $2100 = $18,900.
1st place = $12,535 package (incl. $1,000 cash)
2nd place = $3,000 3rd place = $2,465
The total prize pool is $18,000 for a rake of 4.76%. Muuuuch better.
That EPT Steps page is full of errors (really bad idea).
The total prize pool is $18,000 for a rake of 4.76%. Muuuuch better.
Muchos gracias. I have to pack for my trip, but I have contacted support@pokerstars.com to email me the correct details, including breakdown of the $12,535 and $18,800 packages since they have been correctly accused in 2+2 of improperly taking extra rake from players from the currency exchange and accommodation. After my trip, I will phone compuease so I can start playing in FTOPS and/or EPT satellites.
your a very good poker player, forget about the rake. The rake is ultimately insignificant if your consistantly winning. I think your giving up way too much EV or opportunital winnings by not playing on stars just because they might be taking a bit more $ than Party or wherever.
I think the high level 6 rake has to do to deter top players from just buying into level 6 and winning.
Thanks for the advice, but you couldn't be more wrong! Reaching our 2009 goal of 6 figures will be much harder if you don't understand how significant rake is to your long-term win rate. Just like one should be on rakeback (or SuperNova) if one is a cash game grinder of 4-16 tables, one should avoid any high-rake tournaments online since there are many other opportunities available 24 hours a day with higher EV. It would have been retarded of me to play a $2,100 Step 6 satellite if 26% of my equity is being stolen away in rake, which is almost as bad as Seneca Casino.
I'll see anyone who plays the WSOP Steps this year in the Step 6s ... gonna buyin direct to, like, all of them I can and see how I do.
I'm glad that I won't be playing the PokerStars WSOP Steps so I won't have to face you, SirWatts, etc! I may play the live WSOP Main Event satellites in Las Vegas if the $10K chips are non-taxable and saleable. Good luck.
Well a 26% rake would be unheard of for an online mtt/sng, I'm talking about a 5% vs 4% or whatever the difference is between x site and y site. Look at ryanghall. He pwns sngs on stars and is going to own the step 6 sats as well. I could be wrong but ask him if he is really concerned about a difference in a percentage of rake? In the live games, yes you should look at rake% more closely, but online I don't think its too big of a deal.
I'm talking about a 5% vs 4% or whatever the difference is between x site and y site.
Rest assured I will compare all the important factors in game selection, INCLUDING RAKE, Patience Factor, Skill Level, etc., and will play the ones with the highest EV. The last two tournaments I just finished playing had a rake of 5.7% and 12% overlay (negative rake!), respectively, and both had a Patience Factor of 8.11, and I won both of them.
By the way, does Full Tilt allow a transfer to a friend if you win a second satellite package? With PartyPoker, they credit your account in cash and I think you have the option to transfer the extra package to another PartyPoker player. PokerStars has a bad system, where you only get W$ instead of cash. Can anybody think of a way to transfer a second PokerStars package to a forumer if he does not have PlatinumStar or Supernova VIP status (whom you can transfer W$ to, then they can buy in direct with the W$)? Can W$ be sold at close to 100% cash?
Thanks. So let's say a forumer staked xxxcindyxxx at PokerStars with a goal of winning 2 EPT Scandinavia (or Monte Carlo) packages for them and she succeeds, is the following the best way to get the forumer to play too?
1) She gets W$11,535 and U$1,000 cash for her 2nd package from PokerStars.
2) She sells her W$11,535 at 98% for ~U$11,304 cash.
3) She transfers ~U$12,304 cash to the forumer's PokerStars account so he can buy in directly and they can fly together to Copenhagen and live happily ever after....
Ok, thanks guys. I had kinda thought that if I got to that point where the money started to mean something (step 5/6) that I would consider selling however the chance to win one of those packages would be likely prevent me from doing so (and of course, the fact that you can't).
I won a step 2 via a 60 fpp sat. and then went on to win my way into step 3 (only worth $82 right now) on my first try. We'll see where it takes me...
stp
Well on my 2nd try (first one I finished 4th to get a retry at step 3), I won it and now am on step 4. Wonder if I continue on or use it for one of the Sunday biggies....?
Comments
I won a step 2 via an fpp sat. and then went on to win my way into step 3 (only worth $82 right now) on my first try. We'll see where it takes me...
stp
Yes, this is correct.
stp
Unless you're someone like Watts or Ryan who can win a step 6 you should not play steps.
Well, I'll never know unless I try I guess. I've played with Watts several times, we all had to start somewhere and I believe that he still puts his pants on one legs at a time....he just wins wpt tournaments once they're on
Getting into this steps was spending 60fpp to enter the 100 person sng where top gets entry into level 2 and 2-9 get entry to level 1. I usually spend my fpp on low return sats like this one. I find it's more worthwhile then waiting untill I have enough to buy the Cayenne.
stp
Anyway, good luck to stpboy. Remember, the all-in button is your friend!
Is that Negreanu or Gavin Smith? The Party satellite structures are much better than PokerStars Steps. I don't like playing any satellites though where there is no cash option for the accommodation/flight so the organizer can take much more money away from the players' prize pool for the inflated package than what it would cost to pay on my own.
After re-reading, perhaps you were talking about tournament structure and not blind structure....
thanks for the gl, I'll let you know if this goes anywhere.
stp
For the top 15 people in the world, steps makes sense.
For everyone who's not world class ...
Sometimes the lamb may kill the butcher but I wouldn't bet on it.
Step 1 - 3: 1500 starting chips, 5 minutes level. 10/20, 15/30, 25/50, 50/100, 75/150, 100/200, 150/300a25, 200/400a25, 300/600a50, 400/800a75, 500/1000a100
Step 4 - 5: 1500 starting chips, 10 minutes level. Same structure
Step 6: 3000 starting chips, 10 minutes level. Same structure
I think the high level 6 rake has to do to deter top players from just buying into level 6 and winning. Last year bustosoon won a ton of these, can't remember the final count.
Ryan
That EPT Steps page is full of errors (really bad idea). I'm looking at a Copenhagen Step 6 lobby right now. The real numbers are:
9 players x $2100 = $18,900.
1st place = $12,535 package (incl. $1,000 cash)
2nd place = $3,000
3rd place = $2,465
The total prize pool is $18,000 for a rake of 4.76%. Muuuuch better.
By the way, does Full Tilt allow a transfer to a friend if you win a second satellite package? With PartyPoker, they credit your account in cash and I think you have the option to transfer the extra package to another PartyPoker player. PokerStars has a bad system, where you only get W$ instead of cash. Can anybody think of a way to transfer a second PokerStars package to a forumer if he does not have PlatinumStar or Supernova VIP status (whom you can transfer W$ to, then they can buy in direct with the W$)? Can W$ be sold at close to 100% cash?
97-98%~
1) She gets W$11,535 and U$1,000 cash for her 2nd package from PokerStars.
2) She sells her W$11,535 at 98% for ~U$11,304 cash.
3) She transfers ~U$12,304 cash to the forumer's PokerStars account so he can buy in directly and they can fly together to Copenhagen and live happily ever after....
Well on my 2nd try (first one I finished 4th to get a retry at step 3), I won it and now am on step 4. Wonder if I continue on or use it for one of the Sunday biggies....?
stp