Politics: Coalition of losers: Libs-NDP-Bloc
Any opinions on the coalition of losers?
Liberals and NDP, I could atleast understand. Libs are center-left and NDP are left.. they land up splitting votes between them and setup easy conservative minorities.
What I don't exactly understand is how they intend to get the Bloc onboard aside from promising ridiculous subsidies to Quebec. Can Dion really go to the governer general and say that the Canadian people have clearly decided on a mandate of:
Liberals who had the 2nd worst showing by their party ever
NDP who are flat out insane
Bloc who are quebec separatists
Yes Dion, the canadian voting majority are leftist separatists. lol.
Also the conservatives hold the largest block of seats and GREW since the last election...
It amazes me the way people try to game the system to backdoor their way into office when they were clearly told by the voting public to fuck off.
Liberals and NDP, I could atleast understand. Libs are center-left and NDP are left.. they land up splitting votes between them and setup easy conservative minorities.
What I don't exactly understand is how they intend to get the Bloc onboard aside from promising ridiculous subsidies to Quebec. Can Dion really go to the governer general and say that the Canadian people have clearly decided on a mandate of:
Liberals who had the 2nd worst showing by their party ever
NDP who are flat out insane
Bloc who are quebec separatists
Yes Dion, the canadian voting majority are leftist separatists. lol.
Also the conservatives hold the largest block of seats and GREW since the last election...
It amazes me the way people try to game the system to backdoor their way into office when they were clearly told by the voting public to fuck off.
Comments
I'm not so sure.
The constitution allows for it, and if the Governor General decides it's too early to send Canadians back to the polls then they will be invited to form a government.
BBC's right about a lot, and while I disagree that the NDP are insane, I don't think they're equipped to lead the country.
Some of the news coming out today is interesting though, including their plan to appoint an economic advisory board, which would include Paul Martin, and more specifics about how this thing would actually work.
Does anyone else think that no matter what happens, this is about the most interesting thing to happen in Canadian Politics in a long ass time?
I think she may give them a chance to screw us all errr I mean govern.
One only needs to look at Bob Rae when he led Ontario. Sure we were in trouble, but all the NDP knows how to do is tax and spend. They were very ill prepared then and the fed NDP is just as ill prepared.
Yay another fake surplus built on the backs to taxpayers. Mr Martin is my hero :bs:
Can't wait for the Green Shaft...errr I mean Green Shift
+1
"Ignatieff will not support any coalition not led by Michael Ignatieff"
This will mean we will spend 300+ million for the vanity of the opposition.
300 Million buys 1.5 very large hospitals in todays dollars.
This is fucked!
Harper should back down on the political funding, and the Gov Gen should kick everyone else in the balls!
Done. Mores the pity. Would have been great ammo in the next election, whenever it came. The GG is a bit of a lefty, too, so I look for this coalition to go ahead, especially if the Libs think they can do it w/o having to give the keys to the vault to the Separatists or the NDP. It's the economically conservative Liberal MP's like Cotler, Iggy, etc. who will be the ones that can put the kibosh on this. If Iggy signs on, Harper is done. Much as I hate the idea, I would love for the GG to send us to the polls. We might even get a majority for Harper if she does. Which, of course, is why she won't. Dead $$$ is right about one thing:
We are fucked. Rome burns, while a host of Nero's play their fiddles.
My problem with it being Cons vs Lib-NDP is that it gives ALL the power to the Bloc. Which ever way they want to swing is where the power goes. There's a high cost attached to it as well. I was just thinking, it would be hilarious if the Lib-NDP get into an argument about who should be PM and they land up going with PM Gilles Duceppe. I'd puke on spot.
It's interesting, but I hate the message it sends out about democracy when we are trying to show the emerging world it's virtues and can't even get our own shit in order.
The thing that scares me about the green shift is that it's exactly like the GST. We'll think back to TODAY and reminisce about how lightly taxed we were back then. gah.
My proposal is that every election held within 4 years has escalating consequences for party members. The first time, we traditionally vote. The second time, the candidates are required to box 12 rounds. The third time, it's bareknuckle brawling outside the local pub. Fourth time, we're talking a full out UFC style PPV. If it goes to the fifth, I want full gladitor style battles to the death at skydome.
I really do think that these 'esteemed' elected members of parliment need to stop acting like 10 year old brats and have to work together. No elections.
I think this is a very good possibility. There's lots of Libs and NDP supporters who think their parties are being ridiculous. They'll either stop supporting the party or vote in protest. The con base won't be going anywhere..
Send in... the clooooooooownns...
You know.. the more elections we have over and over and over.. the more opportunity there is for a completely new no bullshit party to spring up out of nowhere and take over the house.. Just run on a platform of "We will not hold another election for 4 years" and you'll win 50% of the vote.
If the political parties have to rely on large private donations, we are taking dangeous steps towards a US Style-greased hand-two party system.
$30 million is peanuts, it was a dumb move.
A coalition is democracy in action....NDP and Liberals (and God forbid the bloc) combined will represent more people's views than the Conservatives. Lots of countries work on the system of Coalitions. It actually requires more of a middle ground governance than the 2 party system you seem to aspire to. Just because something is new to you doesn't make it undemocratic. The Cons shit the bed by trying to govern like they had a majority mandate which they do not. Where's all the vitriol about them promising to take a more concilliatory tone and then doing a 180 at their first opportunity? If they had played nicely with the others for 2 years and gotten thing accomplished while compromising then they would probably have earned a majority in the next election. But the Conservatives forgot that they have to govern not only for the people who voted for them but also for the people that voted against them. Personally I was ready for the Conservatives to run the country for the next few years. But they can't blame anyone but themselves for their current predicament.
No issue with a coalition, per se, but the BQ's stated goal is breaking up Confederation. Their true goal is basically "gimme gimme gimme," for Quebec, and THAT is not good for the country.
So you believe that it's democratic for a country to table a government that doesn't include the largest party? If there are any examples of this in any democracy, please educate me.
Your coalition argument only makes sense to me when the parties are similar in more ways than they are different. Do you believe that the Liberals are just a few minor details away from the Bloc?
I admit that I'm torn. I like the idea of a multiparty system where the political parties can become more fine grainer and pick a few particular points to press on.. and then work as a group to actually accomplish anything.. I just think that you have to include the largest minority.. It feels like a swindle to me.
Careful how you throw around the term "democracy". There are all kinds of variations to that theme. Heinlein has some wonderful quotes about the various political systems we have created for ourselves.
Back on track, you can go round and round with that argument. The tri-party coalition garnered more overall votes, but more people wanted the Cons to form the government than any other individual party, etc. Our system allows for the GG to give the opposing parties the chance to form a coalition, and thereby form a government. I just think she should tell the Liberals and the NDP that, if the Bloc is involved, we are going to the polls.
Yeah it's happened many times, Germany, Isreal, Italy, Japan Oh and a big one I forgot....Canada. It's actually in our past history, So I guess yes I believe that it's democratic if you believe our system is democratic.
I agree that the bloc sucks....but they've been voted in. Are you saying the GG should disenfranchise the people who voted bloc? If the Bloc is allowed in parliament they have to be treated like any other party. Whether or not they should be allowed is another matter entirely.
Actually, it was a honest question and I was lookin' for links.
lol. You can't really blame him for assuming you were just being sarcastic.
P.S. How have we gotten this far in a political thread without Prophet accusing someone of calling him a racist and dropping his gloves?
I wouldn't vote for them cuz I feel they're a bit useless, but like 75% of quebec votes for them, I'd say in a "protestation" vote based on old ideas that aren't true anymore.
It wasn't easy being a frenchman in Canada and that's why the Bloc was created, to protect Quebec's interest in Canada.
Nowaydays though it's not needed anymore, but I'd prefer a Bloc gvn't over a Conservative gvn't anyday. At least we wouldn't try to micmic the US.
Give a decent leaders to the liberals, someone with balls and who doesn't look like a complete retard (dion...) and alot of people will get back on the boat, heck, I'd vote liberal.
Too bad many of those views are mutually exclusive. I keep hearing that argument but it does not hold water. Many Liberals would have nothing to do with the NDP, same for NDP supporters.
BTW, Just heard on the news that the Bloc will have some sort of veto power.
Not sure what that means
Please see the bolded responses. The Bloc Quebecois leaders, and every member of the party should be charged with sedition, and brought before a judge. I have no time for them whatsoever.
It means that the bloc would be calling a lot of the shots, despite it being a liberal in the PM role. Look for lots of extra money and special favors heading to Quebec if a deal like this goes through. All it will take would be a threat of voting with the Conservatives on anything.
December 1, 2008 - 6:27pm
hey all - i'm not sure where to find this on-line, but this text was sent out to the media, and I thought folks would want to see the full text. I'm sure Michelle or oldgoat will tell me I've violated some babble rule by publishing such a long post... but I hope you'll make an exception!
A Policy Accord to Address the Present Economic Crisis
Preamble
The new Government is supported by parties that share a commitment to fiscal responsibility, a progressive agenda and a belief in the role of Government to act as a partner with Canadians and Quebecers. Where appropriate, these goals should be pursued in full partnership and consultation with the provincial and territorial governments.
Fiscal Principles
This policy accord is built on a foundation of fiscal responsibility. All three parties agree that the Canadian economy and the fiscal framework of the federal government have severely weakened since the last federal budget.
As the Parliamentary Budget Officer concluded, due to the policy choices of the Conservative government, the starting point of the federal government is deficit. This new reality does not reduce the necessity to stimulate the economy consistent with the understandings arrived at by all nations in the G20.
The following plan describes common goals and sets out an outline to provide active stimulus for the economy over the next two years, with a shared commitment to return to surplus within four years.
Economic Stimulus Package
The top priority of the new Government is an economic stimulus package designed to boost the domestic economy beginning with (but not limited to):
• Accelerating existing infrastructure funding and substantial new investments, including municipal and inter-provincial projects (such as
• transit, clean energy, water, corridors and gateways). This would certainly include addressing the urgent infrastructure needs of First Nations, Métis and Inuit;
• Housing construction and retrofitting; and
• Investing in key sector strategies (like manufacturing, forestry and automotive) designed to create and save jobs, with any aid contingent on a plan to transform these industries and return them to profitability and sustainability.
Rapid Support for those affected by the Economic Crisis
The new Government is committed to ensuring that the federal government has the appropriate programs in place to assist those most affected by the economic crisis so that all citizens will be in a position to fully participate in the economic recovery to follow, including the following measures:
• Facilitate skills training to help ensure Canadian workers are properly equipped to keep pace with the rapidly changing economy, while respecting provincial jurisdiction and existing agreements;
• Amend the current law establishing a new crown corporation for employment insurance in order to guarantee that all revenue from EI premiums provides benefits and training for workers. Eliminate the current two week waiting period;
• Lower the minimum required RRIF withdrawal for 2008 by 50 per cent;
• Reform bankruptcy and insolvency laws to better protect pensions; and
• Implement an income support program for older workers who have lost their jobs in order to help them make the transition from work to receiving retirement benefits.
Other Priorities to Stimulate the Economy
• Support for culture, including the cancellation of budget cuts announced by the Conservative government.
• Support for Canadian Wheat Board and Supply Management
• Immigration Reform
• Reinstate regional development agency funding to non-profit economic development organizations.
Families
As finances permit, we are committed to moving forward with improved child benefits and an early learning and childcare program in partnership with each province, and respectful of their role and jurisdiction, including the possibility to opt out with full compensation.
Working with our North American Partners
We will work with our North American Partners to pursue a North American cap-and-trade market with absolute emission targets, using 1990 as the base year.
Working with our International Partners
The new Government is committed to working with the international community, particularly with G-20 partners, in pursuit of an effective new global financial architecture.
Confidence Votes
The Government will not request a dissolution of Parliament during the term of this agreement, except following defeat on an explicitly-framed motion of non-confidence presented by the Opposition; or any vote pertaining to the speech from the throne; or on a budget vote at on any stage in the House; or on any bill to implement a budget at any stage in the House; or on any motion in the House to concur in, restore or reinstate any Estimates; or on any supply bill at any stage in the House.
The Bloc Québécois will neither move nor will it support any motions of non-confidence in the Government during the term of its support for this agreement, and will vote in favour of the Government's position with respect to all matters referred to in the immediately preceding paragraph.
Term of this agreement
The Liberal Party of Canada and the New Democratic Party of Canada will adhere to this agreement until June 30, 2011 unless renewed.
The Bloc Québécois will adhere to this agreement until June 30, 2010 unless renewed.
Agreed on December 1, 2008
Hon. Stéphane Dion
Leader, the Liberal Party of Canada
Hon. Jack Layton
Leader, the New Democratic Party of Canada
Gilles Duceppe
Leader, le Bloc Québécois
Good god. If the GG actually allows this farce.. pack it up and dissolve the country..
today's SUN *not the most Liberal friendly paper around* Last happened in 1926.
CANOE -- CNEWS - Politics: Opposition signs coalition deal
Wikipedia (I just changed all the info to support my argument;-)
Politics of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Politics of Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(apparently Germany almost always has a coalition)
The Bloc was created to help in Quebec leaving Canada! It was created to put Quebec above every other interest in Canada. This defines a provincial party! It has no place in Federal politics. Don't kid yourself that Quebec is or was being screwed in any way! There is more money spent in Quebec on the part of Canada now than when the Liberals were last in office. Harper has gone out of his way to attract Quebec'rs.
This is a power grab! It is written in our Constitution that it can happen. They are playing by the rules....nobody likes it...especially me! This coalition of the three stooges can only hurt every Province but Quebec.
If anyone thinks the new coalition will help our economy, stand back and have a look at what happens every time a government changes. All current programs stop! The new gov will look at each program and rename it if they like it and kill it if was associated with the last government. Great example of this is when Liberals were brought into office in Ontario. We had, before the change 50+ new hospitals and additions ready to go. All programs were shelved for 12 to 18 months. All projects are know going. If the federal spending dries up for 12 months, our recession will be much deeper!
Put it to the people... let them decide. I don't care that we just did it... don't steal power with a motley crew of also rans.
Big Picture of Dion and (trying to remember the exact words)
Who would have thought he'd be back and he could be PM!!
(I don't make it sound like it, but it was very negative).
Also, needs to be noted that it's a very pro-quebec newspaper. So that news it's really well received here, contrary to what you all may think...
Duh.
Don't worry, we're used to being the "evil" of Canada haha