Do you have any first hand knowledge of this or is it just something you have read? This has been discussed a number of times before but I have yet to see a definitive answer and cost. We all know about the recovery outfits like these... Casino Tax Refund | Casino Winnings | Gambling Tax Refund
Like can we get an ITTN number ahead of time, carry it with us and stop the casinos from withholding?
Like I mentioned, a "family member" was successful in obtaining a TIN to apply and file for the entire refund of $1200 withholding tax they won while in the states.
I am aware that the 30% withholding tax applies on all winnings over and above $1199 so I am not entirely sure why Wetts1012 was taxed in this manner but as far as I am concerned, the rules of the treaty applies in the same manner and so there should be no issues applying for and claim back the full refund. The only question is, would you be willing to go through the process to get back approx $150?!?!? I mean, $1200 is one thing, $150 is another.
Cost I believe is minimal to none if you do it yourself. As for enlisting the services of a third party, I do know it's a contigency fee basis - as for the exact cost, I am not positively sure but you can always pick up the phone and inquire. I would only assume it's anywhere between 25%-50% of the refund but that's just me if I were to charge you for my services.
If you apply for an ITIN # aren't you expected to file US income tax? Then you get you winnings back by essentially claiming the costs associated with the winnings? If you don't know this for a fact I would suggest leave it to the tax professionals..... This is not for the armchair tax experts.
My understanding is the same. The 1040NR form is simply a U.S. tax return for foreign nationals. The U.S/Can Tax treaty does NOT automatically allow Canadians to receive a rebate of the 30% tax taken by the U.S. government on the winnings of certain prizes (one being poker tournaments) by Canadians in U.S. casinos. It allows Canadians who file a U.S. tax return (1040NR) to write off any expenses incurred winning the prize. So in the earlier example, if buddy (not Buddy, necessarily, but just "buddy") wins $4k in Vegas, and spends $4k on his trip to Vegas (or any other trips to Vegas that year), and has receipts, he can get his $1200 back. On the other hand, if you drive to Seneca and win $4K, and don't incur any other costs in the U.S., Uncle Sam is keeping the $1,200, whether you hire a consultant (assuming they don't do anything illegal), file a form, or jump up and down and flap your arms really, really hard. (I'm unsure of whether you can hold over expenses/losses from previous years or re-file in the future using forward losses. See a U.S. tax professional or read every line of the 1040NR if you're that keen on Seneca and plan to play tourneys there every year.)
Similarly, if you win $10M at the WSOP, you can kiss most of $3M good-bye.
Many U.S. casinos pay out the first $5K in winnings in casino chips. I don't know why Seneca does not. The only sensible solution for non-professional playing Canadians who are not incurring a lot of U.S. expenses - never, ever, ever play a poker tourney at Seneca.
I thought I had posted this already but maybe it was in another forum. Basically the cheapest way that I found to get back your winnings (without filing yourself of course) is to go through H&R Block. They will help you get your ITIN# as well as file your US income tax for ~$130 (plus you have to mail the documents to the States yourself which cost me another ~$10 for tracked mail).
I'm not sure for winnings in the millions (if the amount makes any difference) but for winnings for a couple thousand dollars, you will be able to get 100% of the withholding's back (as I did minus the H&R Block fee).
If you apply for an ITIN # aren't you expected to file US income tax? Then you get you winnings back by essentially claiming the costs associated with the winnings? If you don't know this for a fact I would suggest leave it to the tax professionals..... This is not for the armchair tax experts.
Like I said, the family member got taxed 30%, was able to apply and file for a return months after the fact and then weeks later, receive their full refund without any problems or issues. They weren't professionals but more casual players at best like most of us.
Yes, I don't know the exact details of their actual returns but based on what I do know, it's not some convoluted rocket science. I am more than willing to inquire and will post details at the earliest possible to act as a possible guide for those who are willing to follow suit.
Either way you look at it, they were "SUCCESSFUL" in their attempt at little or no cost. They weren't tax experts either and so I am only suggesting to the general public that the process itself may not be that difficult or complicated as it seems.
If you wanted to play in a satellite, you would be much better off organizing or participating in a rake-free satellite with a decent structure instead of driving to the US for a raked satellite. The main problem is that it is very difficult to find enough forumers or other players to commit to ANY satellite or even a rake-free cash game. The weekend's rake-free satellite to the $2,100 GBH Tournament of Champions has been postponed to November 9, Sunday afternoon.
Future Satellite Idea - I spoke to the person at Seneca (by phone) about the 'personal poker party' at Seneca. Basically you can run your own SNG for any entry fee you like. She said there had only been two in the past and the buy in range was 60 & 90 each. The sweet thing about running your own SNG is that the rake is fixed at 4% max. So next time a bunch of forum members are playing in one of the Seneca tournaments, instead of wasting our money playing their satellites with 15%+ rake, we can just organize our own.
The only catch, not sure if they will withhold the 30% as we are all Canadians which would make the total rake effectively 34%. I will find out if the 30% withholding will apply to a private tournament.
An Ontario casino supervisor thought I was wasting my time when I said I was filing a complaint against Seneca Casino for taxing me just for winning a satellite to a tournament (unlike the previous satellites I won there), and I said that I would bet him or anyone else that I was right and can change things. I have since confirmed that satellite vouchers are non-taxable and that unless you won more than $5,000 at the actual tournament, you should not have been withheld any taxes by Seneca.
The inspector of the Seneca Gaming Authority wants the names of any other Canadians who were improperly taxed in October, so PM me for his contact information.
Comments
Like I mentioned, a "family member" was successful in obtaining a TIN to apply and file for the entire refund of $1200 withholding tax they won while in the states.
I am aware that the 30% withholding tax applies on all winnings over and above $1199 so I am not entirely sure why Wetts1012 was taxed in this manner but as far as I am concerned, the rules of the treaty applies in the same manner and so there should be no issues applying for and claim back the full refund. The only question is, would you be willing to go through the process to get back approx $150?!?!? I mean, $1200 is one thing, $150 is another.
Cost I believe is minimal to none if you do it yourself. As for enlisting the services of a third party, I do know it's a contigency fee basis - as for the exact cost, I am not positively sure but you can always pick up the phone and inquire. I would only assume it's anywhere between 25%-50% of the refund but that's just me if I were to charge you for my services.
Regards,
MC
Similarly, if you win $10M at the WSOP, you can kiss most of $3M good-bye.
Many U.S. casinos pay out the first $5K in winnings in casino chips. I don't know why Seneca does not. The only sensible solution for non-professional playing Canadians who are not incurring a lot of U.S. expenses - never, ever, ever play a poker tourney at Seneca.
I'm not sure for winnings in the millions (if the amount makes any difference) but for winnings for a couple thousand dollars, you will be able to get 100% of the withholding's back (as I did minus the H&R Block fee).
Like I said, the family member got taxed 30%, was able to apply and file for a return months after the fact and then weeks later, receive their full refund without any problems or issues. They weren't professionals but more casual players at best like most of us.
Yes, I don't know the exact details of their actual returns but based on what I do know, it's not some convoluted rocket science. I am more than willing to inquire and will post details at the earliest possible to act as a possible guide for those who are willing to follow suit.
Either way you look at it, they were "SUCCESSFUL" in their attempt at little or no cost. They weren't tax experts either and so I am only suggesting to the general public that the process itself may not be that difficult or complicated as it seems.
Regards,
MC
Net winnings of $5,000 or less are not subject to reporting, withholding, or backup withholding.
The inspector of the Seneca Gaming Authority wants the names of any other Canadians who were improperly taxed in October, so PM me for his contact information.
It basically stated that Im SOL, and that since the voucher was transferrable (or had value) that the witholding tax stands.
It did state that because Buddy disrupted their poker room so much that in the future witholding tax will NOT be held on satellite vouchers.
However- they are no longer transferrable - you have to play the event you win the entry into.
I guess you CAN fight city hall.