We can't give cash prizes to players and they can't pay cash to play. Those two issues make the event illegal.
That is really silly... there has to be a loophole around this. What if they didn't pay cast "to play" per se, and paid cash as a donation to the charity. Everyone who made a donation of a specific amount would be eligible to play in a tournament where prizes were awarded.
I am sure a good lawyer could figure a way around this.
That is really silly... there has to be a loophole around this. What if they didn't pay cast "to play" per se, and paid cash as a donation to the charity. Everyone who made a donation of a specific amount would be eligible to play in a tournament where prizes were awarded.
I am sure a good lawyer could figure a way around this.
We spoke to a lawyer who advised us that the event is illegal and violates the criminal code. Yes...there is a strong possibility that no one will even bother us, but, that's not a chance we want to take with a reputable charity and/or the organizers name. I agree..it sucks! If they were playing for prizes only, I think it's a go, but how many players play Texas holdem for a golf bag or T-shirt?
"Charity" poker events including stags are like those $100 charity lottery tickets: you like the charity so you have an excuse to gambool and have fun, while the majority of your money goes to the organizers and other third parties with their high expenses. If you play poker only to maximize EV, then go to a rake-free game and don't buy those $100 high-raked tickets. Good luck to Michel02 and the charity she volunteers for.
not buddy, me! i'd love to hear buddy's comments though. i'm pretty sure i know what he would say.
:
this may not be the best place to recruit players.
Yes, as Wetts1012, grl_ft_lvr, Redington, The_Game, PIRANHA, mattykies and I have found out, this poker forum is not the way to get enough players for even a rake-free, LEGAL poker game, so illegal games with bad value or structure will be mercilessly flamed.
Remember, any wagering done in the province of Ontario is ILLEGAL if those wagers are not placed against the Government of Ontario or if the Government of Ontario does not take a rake/fee from the game.
[x] false
Shame on all of you on allowing this blantantly false statement to go unchallenged. Source please?!?
but, that's not a chance we want to take with a reputable charity
there are lots of reputable charities, including fortune 500 companies, that hold poker tournaments. Hell, there are poker clubs that run seven days a week for years and don't have any problems. So I wouldn't worry about an afternoon of poker.
Shame on all of you on allowing this blantantly false statement to go unchallenged. Source please?!?
I agree with MickeyHoldem,
I'm not sure where 13cards got this from: "By the written laws, even a "friendly" wager for money placed between two friends on who will win the next round of golf/catch the biggest fish/call heads or tails correctly is, technically, ILLEGAL!!! Nearly all stag games, home games, bar games, bar pools, "squares", etc. also fall into this category."
Criminal Code of Canada - Part VII Disorderly Houses, Gaming and Betting states the definition a "common gaming house" (which is ILLEGAL) with EXCEPTIONS:
A place is NOT a common gaming house with these exceptions:
1) "NO RAKE"
the whole or any portion of the bets on or proceeds from games played therein is not directly or indirectly paid to the keeper thereof.
2) "RAKE is authorized or licenced by the Attorney General or other person with authority specified by the Attorney General (such as casinos)."
no fee is charged to persons for the right or privilege of participating in the games played therein other than under the authority of and in accordance with the terms of a licence issued by the Attorney General of the province in which the place is situated or by such other person or authority in the province as may be specified by the Attorney General thereof.
In other words "NO RAKE" makes a home "rake free" poker game legal.
I'm not sure where 13cards got this from: "By the written laws, even a "friendly" wager for money placed between two friends on who will win the next round of golf/catch the biggest fish/call heads or tails correctly is, technically, ILLEGAL!!! Nearly all stag games, home games, bar games, bar pools, "squares", etc. also fall into this category."
Criminal Code of Canada - Part VII Disorderly Houses, Gaming and Betting states the definition a "common gaming house" (which is ILLEGAL) with EXCEPTIONS:
A place is NOT a common gaming house with these exceptions:
1) "NO RAKE"
the whole or any portion of the bets on or proceeds from games played therein is not directly or indirectly paid to the keeper thereof.
2) "RAKE is authorized or licenced by the Attorney General or other person with authority specified by the Attorney General (such as casinos)."
no fee is charged to persons for the right or privilege of participating in the games played therein other than under the authority of and in accordance with the terms of a licence issued by the Attorney General of the province in which the place is situated or by such other person or authority in the province as may be specified by the Attorney General thereof.
In other words "NO RAKE" makes a home "rake free" poker game legal.
We have officially cancelled the Tournament further to discussions with an AGCO representative. We may or may not have had a problem on the day of the event, but we are not willing to chance bad press for Sponsors, the Charity or the Players. Thanks to all those who commented here, except (pkrfce9) who had nothing but trash comments. Everything else mentioned was helpful. We will lobby for a change in the law like NB, and hopefully within a year or ten, we will all be able to play some good No-Limit Holdem for a Charitable cause. Until then...lets keep playing Marbles and Bingo. Thanks.
there are lots of reputable charities, including fortune 500 companies, that hold poker tournaments. Hell, there are poker clubs that run seven days a week for years and don't have any problems. So I wouldn't worry about an afternoon of poker.
"Charity" poker events including stags are like those $100 charity lottery tickets: you like the charity so you have an excuse to gambool and have fun, while the majority of your money goes to the organizers and other third parties with their high expenses. If you play poker only to maximize EV, then go to a rake-free game and don't buy those $100 high-raked tickets. Good luck to Michel02 and the charity she volunteers for.
Yes, as Wetts1012, grl_ft_lvr, Redington, The_Game, PIRANHA, mattykies and I have found out, this poker forum is not the way to get enough players for even a rake-free, LEGAL poker game, so illegal games with bad value or structure will be mercilessly flamed.
Hi BlondeFish,
This was a rake-free tournament for charity, but still illegal. By the way, Michel is the "male" spelling... you know, from Quebec. LOL
This was a rake-free tournament for charity, but still illegal.
No, like most "charity" poker tournaments, there is a HUGE rake against the players' buy-ins to cover expenses and charitable donation. It was obvious to me as soon as I read your original post that your event would be considered illegal by the OPP, AGCO and OLG unless you had a obtained a charity license number.
However, 13CARDS is absolutely wrong on a rake-free poker game being illegal. If he and moose ever play heads-up for rollz (rake-free), he can invite the heads of the OPP, AGCO and OLG to watch without fear of getting arrested.
No, like most "charity" poker tournaments, there is a HUGE rake against the players' buy-ins to cover expenses and charitable donation. It was obvious to me as soon as I read your original post that your event would be considered illegal by the OPP, AGCO and OLG unless you had a obtained a charity license number.
However, 13CARDS is absolutely wrong on a rake-free poker game being illegal. If he and moose ever play heads-up for rollz (rake-free), he can invite the heads of the OPP, AGCO and OLG to watch without fear of getting arrested.
My research has led to the same conclusion so far, rake-free home games are fine. I am drafting a letter for the Minister of Justice asking that they change our gaming laws and make home games legal and charity tournaments legal as well. Just like they did in NB.
Mark would like to apologize for his insufficient use of the "Quote" button.... initial intention was to tilt PokerJah
Mark would further like to apologize for this apology. Sorry for the inconvenience.
....................................
Mark would like to apologize for the previous apology inadvertently added into the previous apology, wherein he was apologizing for the poor communication of his previous post, resulting in said apology. Mark would however like to reiterate that his initial "pwnage" (as the youth are saying) is in fact still relevant and applicable.
Thank you for your time.
Good night Cleveland
Mark
(Man, I gotta find something to do at work for the next two hours)
Comments
You are correct. Just got off the phone with an AGCO agent. It's not legal and we will cancel the tourney. Thanks for your help and comments.
Michel
Couldn't you get a company to sponsor the event to cover operating costs, then donate all proceeds to charity?
We can't give cash prizes to players and they can't pay cash to play. Those two issues make the event illegal.
That is really silly... there has to be a loophole around this. What if they didn't pay cast "to play" per se, and paid cash as a donation to the charity. Everyone who made a donation of a specific amount would be eligible to play in a tournament where prizes were awarded.
I am sure a good lawyer could figure a way around this.
We spoke to a lawyer who advised us that the event is illegal and violates the criminal code. Yes...there is a strong possibility that no one will even bother us, but, that's not a chance we want to take with a reputable charity and/or the organizers name. I agree..it sucks! If they were playing for prizes only, I think it's a go, but how many players play Texas holdem for a golf bag or T-shirt?
Yes, as Wetts1012, grl_ft_lvr, Redington, The_Game, PIRANHA, mattykies and I have found out, this poker forum is not the way to get enough players for even a rake-free, LEGAL poker game, so illegal games with bad value or structure will be mercilessly flamed.
[x] false
Shame on all of you on allowing this blantantly false statement to go unchallenged. Source please?!?
there are lots of reputable charities, including fortune 500 companies, that hold poker tournaments. Hell, there are poker clubs that run seven days a week for years and don't have any problems. So I wouldn't worry about an afternoon of poker.
I agree with MickeyHoldem,
I'm not sure where 13cards got this from: "By the written laws, even a "friendly" wager for money placed between two friends on who will win the next round of golf/catch the biggest fish/call heads or tails correctly is, technically, ILLEGAL!!! Nearly all stag games, home games, bar games, bar pools, "squares", etc. also fall into this category."
Criminal Code of Canada - Part VII Disorderly Houses, Gaming and Betting states the definition a "common gaming house" (which is ILLEGAL) with EXCEPTIONS:
A place is NOT a common gaming house with these exceptions:
1) "NO RAKE"
the whole or any portion of the bets on or proceeds from games played therein is not directly or indirectly paid to the keeper thereof.
2) "RAKE is authorized or licenced by the Attorney General or other person with authority specified by the Attorney General (such as casinos)."
no fee is charged to persons for the right or privilege of participating in the games played therein other than under the authority of and in accordance with the terms of a licence issued by the Attorney General of the province in which the place is situated or by such other person or authority in the province as may be specified by the Attorney General thereof.
In other words "NO RAKE" makes a home "rake free" poker game legal.
We have officially cancelled the Tournament further to discussions with an AGCO representative. We may or may not have had a problem on the day of the event, but we are not willing to chance bad press for Sponsors, the Charity or the Players. Thanks to all those who commented here, except (pkrfce9) who had nothing but trash comments. Everything else mentioned was helpful. We will lobby for a change in the law like NB, and hopefully within a year or ten, we will all be able to play some good No-Limit Holdem for a Charitable cause. Until then...lets keep playing Marbles and Bingo. Thanks.
We are not willing to take the chance.
Michel
Hi BlondeFish,
This was a rake-free tournament for charity, but still illegal. By the way, Michel is the "male" spelling... you know, from Quebec. LOL
However, 13CARDS is absolutely wrong on a rake-free poker game being illegal. If he and moose ever play heads-up for rollz (rake-free),
It was a ruling offered by 13cards... by default it is challenged on this forum.
Mark
My research has led to the same conclusion so far, rake-free home games are fine. I am drafting a letter for the Minister of Justice asking that they change our gaming laws and make home games legal and charity tournaments legal as well. Just like they did in NB.
I don't appreciate you enough sometimes. :h:
FYP / QFT
Mark